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Editing trade and transfer rules in EHM 1

Discuss all aspects of editing the data in EHM here. Have a question about the Pre Game Editor, editing the .cfg files, hex editing the .dat files? Want to tweak the EHM exe file to change league rules/structure, start date etc? This is the place!
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This is the forum to discuss all aspects of editing the EHM data and tweaking the game.

Please note that discussion about roster updates belongs in the Game Add-ons Forum.

Editing trade and transfer rules in EHM 1

Postby janks » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:45 am

I have come across situation where NHL teams can offer contracts to my players which are under contract already for my team.(If agreed transfer is arranged at the end of my contract). On the other hand I cannot do something similar with any players on contract on other teams (except usual buy or trade options). Is this game bug and is it possible to remove such offers using editor?
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby Alessandro » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:12 pm

janks wrote:I have come across situation where NHL teams can offer contracts to my players which are under contract already for my team.(If agreed transfer is arranged at the end of my contract). On the other hand I cannot do something similar with any players on contract on other teams (except usual buy or trade options). Is this game bug and is it possible to remove such offers using editor?


I guess it's hardcoded rules for NHL unfortunately
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:34 pm

Alessandro wrote:
janks wrote:I have come across situation where NHL teams can offer contracts to my players which are under contract already for my team.(If agreed transfer is arranged at the end of my contract). On the other hand I cannot do something similar with any players on contract on other teams (except usual buy or trade options). Is this game bug and is it possible to remove such offers using editor?


I guess it's hardcoded rules for NHL unfortunately
Are you sure? What are the settings for the KHL?

My understanding is in EHM players under contract to KHL teams can not be offered contracts by NHL teams (because IRL the KHL doesn't have an agreement with the KHL for the "NHL Release Clause"), but all Leagues but the KHL can have their contracted players offered contracts by NHL teams (because everyone but the KHL has an "NHL Release Clause" agreement with the NHL)

I was hoping to use the modern "NHL/KHL agreement" with the 1974 database to better keep players in Europe/Russia...


I don't think it's a bug either, it's real life reality (I think the NHL is the only one that has this agreement with other Leagues; in many/almost all cases players want to be in the NHL over any other option)
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby Alessandro » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:24 pm

nino33 wrote:
Alessandro wrote:
janks wrote:I have come across situation where NHL teams can offer contracts to my players which are under contract already for my team.(If agreed transfer is arranged at the end of my contract). On the other hand I cannot do something similar with any players on contract on other teams (except usual buy or trade options). Is this game bug and is it possible to remove such offers using editor?


I guess it's hardcoded rules for NHL unfortunately
Are you sure?


Nino, you that pay so much attention to single words, I started my post with "I guess" :**
I don't really think it's a bug, but the user asked if it can be changed, and I [b]think that this kind of stuff is hardcoded
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:54 pm

Alessandro wrote:Nino, you that pay so much attention to single words, I started my post with "I guess" :**
I don't really think it's a bug, but the user asked if it can be changed, and I think that this kind of stuff is hardcoded
But the KHL isn't the same as all other Leagues...so I guess you're saying there's nothing you can see in the Editor that explains why the KHL is different

You're right! I should have noticed your "I guess" :-D sorry about that

I haven't used Archi's Editor, haven't looked at things at all (let alone closely) and apparently I incorrectly assumed that the KHL being different showed in the Editor...which is to bad, as like I mentioned, I was hoping to use the difference (that's apparently hardcoded) for retro databases, to keep most Europeans/Russians from coming to the NHL + have the NHL/WHA be separate Leagues where players can't be "signed away" (like the NHL/KHL are now in EHM)


EDIT
Last edited by nino33 on Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:18 am

archibalduk wrote:
nino33 wrote:I haven't used Archi's Editor, haven't looked at things at all (let alone closely) and apparently I incorrectly assumed that the KHL being different showed in the Editor...which is to bad, as like I mentioned, I was hoping to use the difference (that's apparently hardcoded) for retro databases, to keep most Europeans/Russians from coming to the NHL + have the NHL/WHA be separate Leagues where players can't be "signed away" (like the NHL/KHL are now in EHM)


IMO we are only scratching the surface right now. There are heaps of settings and it's hard to say for certain what is and isn't hardcoded. It just needs a lot of us to experiment and share our findings. :thup:
Honestly, that's what I thought, and that's why I asked Alessandro if he was sure (but I totally admit I did miss his "I guess") :-)
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby andda715 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:22 am

The flag below sounds like it might be related to the KHL/NHL contract situation:
Transfer Rules --> Extra Rules --> Contract disallowed foreign clause

At least it is true for NHL & KHL, but not for most (all?) others.
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:46 am

andda715 wrote:The flag below sounds like it might be related to the KHL/NHL contract situation:
Transfer Rules --> Extra Rules --> Contract disallowed foreign clause

At least it is true for NHL & KHL, but not for most (all?) others.
As mentioned, I've not used the Editor, but what you've pointed out sounds interesting/promising :-k
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby Alessandro » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:14 am

andda715 wrote:The flag below sounds like it might be related to the KHL/NHL contract situation:
Transfer Rules --> Extra Rules --> Contract disallowed foreign clause

At least it is true for NHL & KHL, but not for most (all?) others.


It only means that NHL and KHL don't allow for "foreign clause", nothing more.
There's (almost) nothing in the editor that governs how leagues sign players, I guess we should edit "North American" transfer system, but since in the DB there is no way to edit these things then I guess that it's hardcoded stuff.
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:28 pm

janks wrote:I have come across situation where NHL teams can offer contracts to my players which are under contract already for my team.(If agreed transfer is arranged at the end of my contract). On the other hand I cannot do something similar with any players on contract on other teams (except usual buy or trade options). Is this game bug and is it possible to remove such offers using editor?



Alessandro wrote:
andda715 wrote:The flag below sounds like it might be related to the KHL/NHL contract situation:
Transfer Rules --> Extra Rules --> Contract disallowed foreign clause

At least it is true for NHL & KHL, but not for most (all?) others.


It only means that NHL and KHL don't allow for "foreign clause", nothing more.
There's (almost) nothing in the editor that governs how leagues sign players, I guess we should edit "North American" transfer system, but since in the DB there is no way to edit these things then I guess that it's hardcoded stuff.
Isn't the "foreign clause" exactly what Janks is talking about?
While as I've said I've not even poked around in Archi's new Editor, to me it sounds exactly what Janks was talking about...

Sounds to me like the "foreign clause" (NHL Release Clause) is what allows NHL teams to sign contracted players from other Leagues, and the KHL IRL and in EHM doesn't allow for this...if the NHL and KHL are set to disallow and all other Leagues to allow, then I'd think setting your League to "Contract disallowed foreign clause" would stop the NHL from signing your players when they're already under contract
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby janks » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:55 pm

nino33 wrote:
janks wrote:I have come across situation where NHL teams can offer contracts to my players which are under contract already for my team.(If agreed transfer is arranged at the end of my contract). On the other hand I cannot do something similar with any players on contract on other teams (except usual buy or trade options). Is this game bug and is it possible to remove such offers using editor?



Alessandro wrote:
andda715 wrote:The flag below sounds like it might be related to the KHL/NHL contract situation:
Transfer Rules --> Extra Rules --> Contract disallowed foreign clause

At least it is true for NHL & KHL, but not for most (all?) others.


It only means that NHL and KHL don't allow for "foreign clause", nothing more.
There's (almost) nothing in the editor that governs how leagues sign players, I guess we should edit "North American" transfer system, but since in the DB there is no way to edit these things then I guess that it's hardcoded stuff.
Isn't the "foreign clause" exactly what Janks is talking about?
While as I've said I've not even poked around in Archi's new Editor, to me it sounds exactly what Janks was talking about...

Sounds to me like the "foreign clause" (NHL Release Clause) is what allows NHL teams to sign contracted players from other Leagues, and the KHL IRL and in EHM doesn't allow for this...if the NHL and KHL are set to disallow and all other Leagues to allow, then I'd think setting your League to "Contract disallowed foreign clause" would stop the NHL from signing your players when they're already under contract


It happened in Champions hockey league I created on basis of KHL. I didn't changed any settings related to 'Contract disallowed foreign clause' as I remember but I will check if players which agreed to move to NHL teams in future have any release clause in their contract information.
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby Alessandro » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:23 pm

nino33 wrote:
janks wrote:I have come across situation where NHL teams can offer contracts to my players which are under contract already for my team.(If agreed transfer is arranged at the end of my contract). On the other hand I cannot do something similar with any players on contract on other teams (except usual buy or trade options). Is this game bug and is it possible to remove such offers using editor?



Alessandro wrote:
andda715 wrote:The flag below sounds like it might be related to the KHL/NHL contract situation:
Transfer Rules --> Extra Rules --> Contract disallowed foreign clause

At least it is true for NHL & KHL, but not for most (all?) others.


It only means that NHL and KHL don't allow for "foreign clause", nothing more.
There's (almost) nothing in the editor that governs how leagues sign players, I guess we should edit "North American" transfer system, but since in the DB there is no way to edit these things then I guess that it's hardcoded stuff.
Isn't the "foreign clause" exactly what Janks is talking about?
While as I've said I've not even poked around in Archi's new Editor, to me it sounds exactly what Janks was talking about...

Sounds to me like the "foreign clause" (NHL Release Clause) is what allows NHL teams to sign contracted players from other Leagues, and the KHL IRL and in EHM doesn't allow for this...if the NHL and KHL are set to disallow and all other Leagues to allow, then I'd think setting your League to "Contract disallowed foreign clause" would stop the NHL from signing your players when they're already under contract


No, it's not like that. The NHL release clause means that if a players has one, he'll join the NHL as soon as the international transfer windows starts. If he has not, he'll join the NHL club at the end of his contract.
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby janks » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:05 pm

No clauses for particular player in current contract. Maybe this could be related to player status (availability) which allows NHL teams instead of buying offer him new contract-strange!
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:07 pm

Alessandro wrote:
nino33 wrote:Sounds to me like the "foreign clause" (NHL Release Clause) is what allows NHL teams to sign contracted players from other Leagues, and the KHL IRL and in EHM doesn't allow for this...if the NHL and KHL are set to disallow and all other Leagues to allow, then I'd think setting your League to "Contract disallowed foreign clause" would stop the NHL from signing your players when they're already under contract


No, it's not like that. The NHL release clause means that if a players has one, he'll join the NHL as soon as the international transfer windows starts. If he has not, he'll join the NHL club at the end of his contract.
Is the "foreign clause" the NHL Release Clause?

If it is, then from a retro perspective it's better than it was in EHM07 (with EHM07 it didn't matter how long the contract was, the player either immediately came over or did so after the first season, they never fulfilled their European/Russian League contract first...even if they didn't have an NHL Release Clause they could still be "signed away" and came to the NHL immediately or after that season, so in EHM07 the NHL always could sign away players and get them to come to the NHL within a single season) & Janz could edit his League to have the foreign clause disallowed and at least keep his contracted players until their contract expired

If it's not, what exactly is the foreign clause/what does it do?


P.S. In the new EHM can KHL players under contract be signed to an NHL contract? I was under the impression they couldn't even be approached, that you had to wait until they were Free Agents (perhaps I'm thinking of FHM3)
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby kev90 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:15 pm

nino33 wrote:P.S. In the new EHM can KHL players under contract be signed to an NHL contract? I was under the impression they couldn't even be approached, that you had to wait until they were Free Agents (perhaps I'm thinking of FHM3)


Yes they can, they will come at the end of their contract if no foreign release clause, at the transfer window of June 7th if they do have the clause.
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:32 pm

kev90 wrote:
nino33 wrote:P.S. In the new EHM can KHL players under contract be signed to an NHL contract? I was under the impression they couldn't even be approached, that you had to wait until they were Free Agents (perhaps I'm thinking of FHM3)


Yes they can, they will come at the end of their contract if no foreign release clause, at the transfer window of June 7th if they do have the clause.
So you're saying some KHL players actually have an NHL Release Clause, and some don't?
If that's the case ingame that's certainly not "correct" as the NHL can't/doesn't sign players who are contracted to the KHL IRL (so I wouldn't think ingame any KHL player would/should have an NHL Release Clause)



Do you know if the "foreign clause" being discussed above is the NHL Release Clause? Seems to me if some KHLers have an NHL Release Clause and some don't the "foreign clause" is either not referring to the NHL Release Clause, or it's not working...



andda715 wrote:The flag below sounds like it might be related to the KHL/NHL contract situation:Transfer Rules --> Extra Rules --> Contract disallowed foreign clause

At least it is true for NHL & KHL, but not for most (all?) others.
This post made me think the "foreign clause" was referring to the "NHL Release Clause" and that it #1 was applied League wide and #2 could be disabled...

I'm still wondering exactly what the "foreign clause" refers to/what it does :-k
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby kev90 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:01 pm

nino33 wrote:So you're saying some KHL players actually have an NHL Release Clause, and some don't?
If that's the case ingame that's certainly not "correct" as the NHL can't/doesn't sign players who are contracted to the KHL IRL (so I wouldn't think ingame any KHL player would/should have an NHL Release Clause)

Do you know if the "foreign clause" being discussed above is the NHL Release Clause? Seems to me if some KHLers have an NHL Release Clause and some don't the "foreign clause" is either not referring to the NHL Release Clause, or it's not working...


The game as a lot of rules not properly implemented/updated. I suppose lots of them can't be as it would be difficult to take into considerations all of the legal aspects of a specific rule/situation.

International player transfers in hockey are generally regulated and governed by the International Ice Hockey Federation (“IIHF”). Typically, there are four principal types of transfers that occur in hockey. The first type of transfer is the transfer of a player from an IIHF league to another IIHF league. The second occurs when a player in an IIHF league transfers to the NHL or the KHL. A third category is when a player transfers from the NHL to an IIHF member league. Finally, the fourth type of transfer occurs when a player transfers from the KHL to the NHL or vice versa. They would all have their own set of rules.

For Europe leagues other than the KHL, the national associations and leagues from Finland, Germany and Sweden for example signed separate player transfer agreements where a contribution is given in return.

It appears that The NHL and the KHL executed a Memorandum of Understanding that states each league will refrain from poaching players. This Memorandum outlines the policies and procedures to allow for player transfers as well as standardized discipline for all disputed transfers. You mentioned that ''the NHL can't/doesn't sign players who are contracted to the KHL IRL'', I don't thing that this is exactly how it works ...

It then gets very complicated and I don't know how European contracts are negotiated but maybe some players are requesting that they can be released to another league's club if they were to agree on a contract.

The fact the the IIHF doesn't govern the NHL (and KHL also) and that the NHL as an international entry draft every year complicates everything even more.

I believe that the players and clubs just either agree on a transfer clause prior to signing and maybe even after or in some instances you get disputed transfers, like the case of Malkin where his team from Russia deposited a law suit in New-York against the Penguins to prevent Malkin from playing in the NHL, which was rejected in the end. The other way around as the example of Radulov ...

IN GAME, the foreign release clause can be found on players in other European leagues than the KHL, and I assume it is not bound to the NHL transfers but to any other countries outside of the player's home team country/league. so to answer your question ''Do you know if the "foreign clause" being discussed above is the NHL Release Clause?''. I don't think it simulates what it is or should be in all instances anyway, so no ?
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:16 pm

kev90 wrote:
nino33 wrote:P.S. In the new EHM can KHL players under contract be signed to an NHL contract? I was under the impression they couldn't even be approached, that you had to wait until they were Free Agents (perhaps I'm thinking of FHM3)
Yes they can, they will come at the end of their contract if no foreign release clause, at the transfer window of June 7th if they do have the clause.



kev90 wrote:
nino33 wrote:So you're saying some KHL players actually have an NHL Release Clause, and some don't?
If that's the case ingame that's certainly not "correct" as the NHL can't/doesn't sign players who are contracted to the KHL IRL (so I wouldn't think ingame any KHL player would/should have an NHL Release Clause)

Do you know if the "foreign clause" being discussed above is the NHL Release Clause? Seems to me if some KHLers have an NHL Release Clause and some don't the "foreign clause" is either not referring to the NHL Release Clause, or it's not working...


IN GAME, the foreign release clause can be found on players in other European leagues than the KHL, and I assume it is not bound to the NHL transfers but to any other countries outside of the player's home team country/league. so to answer your question ''Do you know if the "foreign clause" being discussed above is the NHL Release Clause?''. I don't think it simulates what it is or should be in all instances anyway, so no ?
I asked about KHL players ingame in the new EHM, and you said some had an NHL Release Clauses...are you still saying this?
IMO if KHL players can be signed away by the NHL and if players leave before their KHL contract expires, there's a problem...if not, all is "good enough for now" IMO



I'm not really looking for EHM or expecting EHM to simulate all the various possibilities in all of hockey

Personally, I think having it that there either can be or can't be an NHL Release Clause is satisfactory (it would be an improvement for retro databases at least!)...I'm certainly not concerned myself about all the non NHL/KHL possibilities and I don't suspect many people are so I can see why Riz wouldn't spend the (likely significant) time to code it all; when I look at the lengthy wish list I see a lot of things that have more "bang for the buck" than fully detailed transfer agreements for secondary Leagues

I do think/admit it would be better IMO if the "foreign clause" meant the player couldn't sign a future contract (so they'd have to become free agents, and not sign a contract while still under contract...but perhaps this would cause problems because of how European/Russian Leagues seemingly buy players under contract themselves)
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby kev90 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:47 pm

nino33 wrote:I asked about KHL players ingame in the new EHM, and you said some had an NHL Release Clauses...are you still saying this?


I got lost in my previous post but yes, in the new EHM, some KHL players do have a foreign release clause and some don't.

nino33 wrote:if players leave before their KHL contract expires, there's a problem...


Well in reality that can still happen so I would say that the way the game deal with the foreign release clause ATM is what ressembles reality the most.
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:13 am

kev90 wrote:
nino33 wrote:if players leave before their KHL contract expires, there's a problem...


Well in reality that can still happen so I would say that the way the game deal with the foreign release clause ATM is what ressembles reality the most.
It's not good from a retro database perspective (like 1974/1979 databases) & it's not good if the setting in the Editor shows the KHL's not supposed to have Release Clauses (the "foreign clause")

Also, I don't think it does happen IRL (though KHL players may buy out there contracts to be able to leave)


NHL Release Clauses aren't something that can be added via database editing (just like No Trade/No Movement Clauses can't be added via database editing); IIRC from years ago working on the 1974 database, getting an NHL Release Clause connected to Reputation...but as I mentioned, even when edited so the player didn't have an NHL Release Clause they still left while contracted as if they did have an NHL Release Clause

In addition to retro database use, I suspect others who don't play the NHL would like the ability to not have the NHL be able to sign away contracted players and have said players leave before their existing contract expires
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby Alessandro » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:25 am

kev90 wrote:
nino33 wrote:I asked about KHL players ingame in the new EHM, and you said some had an NHL Release Clauses...are you still saying this?


I got lost in my previous post but yes, in the new EHM, some KHL players do have a foreign release clause and some don't.


How is it even possible? If so, it's a bug in the game.
Please provide us with names and possibly a screenshot. In my games I naver have seen a single player with NHL release clause.
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Editing trade and transfer rules in EHM 1

Postby Named » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:32 am

I saw few players left to NHL immediately but not sure how it works. Sometimes draft choices can move immediately, sometimes not.
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby kev90 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:44 am

nino33 wrote:it's not good if the setting in the Editor shows the KHL's not supposed to have Release Clauses


Alessandro wrote: How is it even possible? If so, it's a bug in the game.


My bad, I was wrong for the KHL players sometimes having a foreign release clause, it tricked me because when you sign a player from the KHL who is becoming FA at the end of the season, the term of the contract will tell you that the player will move during an International transfer window (like it says for other european players with a foreign release clause), not at the end of their contract (like it says for any KHL players signing to the NHL when they are not FA at the end of the current season).

So for the other european leagues, players with Foreign offer release clause will join during the next transfer window regardless of how many years is left to their contract.

nino33 wrote: even when edited so the player didn't have an NHL Release Clause they still left while contracted as if they did have an NHL Release Clause


This doesn't happen anymore from what I can see, players with no such clause can negotiate but will only join at the end of their contract.

nino33 wrote: I suspect others who don't play the NHL would like the ability to not have the NHL be able to sign away contracted players and have said players leave before their existing contract expires


Problems solved as said above, you also have the option as a GM of an european team (except KHL) to either add or not that foreign offer release clause when negotiating a contract. So if signed without the clause, it appears you are guaranteed to have the player until he becomes FA / sign with another country ...
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby colinrsmall » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:03 am

Amazing work!

[s]I noticed there's an option for the max number of teams in the league for the NHL. I remember last year with EHM assistant I was having trouble adding expansion teams due to a mismatch between the max number of teams in the league not equaling the real number of teams due to the added expansion teams. Will bumping that number allow us to make and add expansion teams into the game?
EDIT: read through another post and found this is possible

Also, I was messing around and made a blank team to do a free-agents only run. I have two questions about this:
1. It's easy to manually remove contracted players from teams, but I wasn't sure how to remove player's rights in game. This isn't really an issue because you can release their rights with no consequence. However, for players on loan such as Jakob Chychrun (yes I removed the Yotes, suck it), I have to recall them from loan and release the player (buy-out style) and thus take a cap hit. It's not that big of a deal but I was wondering if there's a way to fix this.
2. Is it possible to move the start date back to give yourself more time to sign free agents before the season begins. I had an issue in that game where a lot of free agents would hold out on me to around the beginning of the season before accepting or denying my offers. I guess I could always sim a year and then remove players from teams in EHM assistant right after the draft or something like that.[/s]

I don't know why but this post ended up in the wrong thread. Oops
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Re: EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor

Postby nino33 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:16 am

kev90 wrote:My bad, I was wrong for the KHL players sometimes having a foreign release clause
I'm glad to hear the KHL players at least fulfill their contracts :thup:


kev90 wrote:
nino33 wrote: even when edited so the player didn't have an NHL Release Clause they still left while contracted as if they did have an NHL Release Clause
This doesn't happen anymore from what I can see, players with no such clause can negotiate but will only join at the end of their contract.
That's good news! :thup:
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nino33
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