The Blue Line

[2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Want to ask EHM graphics questions, questions about a project or make requests for a project? Don't know what files go where? Are you working on a new addon or roster update? This is the place to discuss! Also the official home of the TBL Eastside Hockey Manager Roster Update Project (formerly known as the Manimal/Lidas Rosters).
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We cannot generally give estimated release dates for the TBL Rosters. If we do have an estimated release date then we will post it in the Site News. Please do not ask us when the release date will be as we simply cannot say. The update work is undertaken by a small number of very kind users who do the work in their spare time. It is simply the case that the update will be released as soon as the planned work has been completed. For obvious reasons we do not rush releases. The more people who help with the updating work, the quicker we can get the rosters updated and released. If you would like to help then please post in the Researcher Sign-up Thread. All serious offers of help are very gratefully received.

Useful Links: Locating your EHM:EA installation folderImporting an EHM 2007 database into EHM:EALogo DimensionsWhere to install databases and graphicsTBL Rosters Crash/Malfunction Thread

[2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby xECK29x » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:01 pm

Hey guys, first time long time.

Some backstory about me, I am a total hockey nut, especially with rosters. I have been making custom rosters for (mostly) my personal enjoyment since NHL 95 on the PC. I got into EHM with the first Steam version and have been in love with it ever since.

So here are my first (public) release rosters, I would love feedback and extensive playtesting.

General Details:

- This is still a work in progress, ready for playtesting/feedback -- EXPECT FREQUENT UPDATES
- Based off of TBL 17-18 Beta rosters
- Recommended play using alternative ratings scale 0-100 (not required but it's how I viewed the ratings when making them)
- This will NOT be a start of season roster
- NHL/AHL focused rosters
- HEAVILY updated: heights, weights, contracts, places of birth (over 100 added), player types, historical stats, favorite staff (many family connections added) and full re-ratings (CA + PA) of all players contacted to NHL/AHL/ECHL (WIP) teams.
- Over 100 staff added/updated/re-rated
- Touched up all staff on NHL/AHL/CHL/USHL/USHS/NCAA teams, ECHL is still WIP should be done in a few weeks.
- Updated AHL/ECHL contracted players (ECHL WIP)
- Added many high-profile U17 players (still on-going)
- Re-rated/updated top 100 for 2018 draft (will put more focus on this - eventual top 300 - after final Central Scouting and ISS reports come out)
- Added full player histories for almost all drafted/signed NHL prospects (NCAA players now have player histories!) - Still finishing for a few teams
- Updated FA staff/player pool (no more oddball signings of 80+ year old staff)
- Updated draft picks
- Updated transactions (for NHL/AHL/ECHL teams as of 11/27/17).
- Yes it has Vegas and updated AHL/ECHL teams

Thanks/Credits:

- Archi for his amazing editor, without it I wouldn't be able to make these
- The entire team of dedicated researchers that continue to push the boundaries for this game, and anyone that has contributed to the creation of the TBL roster I used as a base!

What I Need From You:

Outside of hopefully a fun time playing EHM with my rosters I need extensive playtesting. I have spent hundreds, if not thousands at this point, of hours in the editor but I have barely played the game. I need to know of any MAJOR issues with the simulation (i.e, CPU teams doing very weird things (like firing all their scouts or terminating all their players at the start of the sim).

Download Link:

Last Update: 11/27/17
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2iphml0och156 ... 2.zip?dl=0

FAQ

Q: Why are these only being posted here?
A: Because this is the heart of the community, I know you will give me the best feedback. I have seen other rosters get ripped off on Steam (I have hidden tells to see if you steal and re-post these!) I will eventually post these to the Steam Workshop when I feel they are "complete", likely after I finish updating the player histories of NHL teams/prospects and the ECHL.

Q: Why are these not a "start of season" roster?
A: Too much of a pain to update, and I like these

Q: How to install?
A: Unzip the file into a folder inside of your game's database directory, should look like X:\*\Eastside Hockey Manager\data\database\xECK29x-Rosters-v2
Last edited by xECK29x on Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby Ukko » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:02 pm

Nice job !

I will start a game with those rosters ! I'll report back on how it goes :)

edit : I'd request a "how to" for installation, for the sake of it and easier setup for newcomers ;)
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby xECK29x » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:04 pm

Ahh good one will add to FAQ, next update I will zip up the directory instead of just the loose files and include readme.

You are going to unzip the archive into your game's database/db directory, should look like X:\*\Eastside Hockey Manager\data\database\xECK29x-Rosters-v2
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby Beukeboom » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:46 pm

On a first look really great work you can be proud off. Histories etc. make it really polished and appealing. Only thing i dont like so much is that for MY preferences the player attribtes look a Little too good throughout so i have fears differences between players especially in major leagues might be a little less distinguishable.
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby xECK29x » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:07 pm

Beukeboom wrote:On a first look really great work you can be proud off. Histories etc. make it really polished and appealing. Only thing i dont like so much is that for MY preferences the player attribtes look a Little too good throughout so i have fears differences between players especially in major leagues might be a little less distinguishable.


This is exactly the kind of feedback I want to receive, as an FYI here are my scales, I try to stay as consistent to these as possible. Also I align staff to a similar scale.

Forwards
200 - Generational (Crosby)
190 - Superstar (Tavares)
180 - Franchise
170 - 1st liner
160 - 1st/2nd liner
150 - 2nd liner
140 - 2nd/3rd liner
130 - 3rd liner
120 - 3rd/4th liner
110 - 4th liner
100 - 4th liner/AHLer
90 - AHL
80 - ECHL
70 - College/Juniors

Goalies
200-190 - Generational (Roy)
180-170 - #1 Goalie (Vezina quality)
160-150 - 1A Goalie
140-130 - 1B Goalie
120-110 - Backup
100-90 - AHL
80 - ECHL
70 - College/Juniors

Defense
200 - Generational (Orr)
190 - Superstar (Lidstrom)
180 - #1 D
170 - #2 D
160 - #3 D
150 - #4 D
140 - #5 D
130 - #6 D
120 - Reserve D-man
110 - AHL
100 - ECHL
90 - Juniors/College
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby Beukeboom » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:51 am

The scale in itself is very good and its always a matter of opinion, but for example the upper area especially with young players always iiritates me gameplay wise, sure CA wise O Mc David and Matthews might be close to open end but is McDavid already a Player nearly perfect in all categories especially so good on Defence also? I see him more technically totally gifted but still with room to grow, and even Gretzky in his best would have some holes in his game, closest to perfect, but are those guys really great in checking etc? Are they all leaders? Do those guys in aged 19/20 not still have holes and space to grow a little?

Also on the other end--- Marleau is awesoem but does he really have Acceleraton and Speed at 37 years at 15 and 17?

What describes how i view it good: Jagr has checking 10, while McDavid has 15, i dont know if old Jags isnt more to fear in his old years especially in the Corners at checks than that Youngsters. Just my 2 Cents not really a hockey expert.

As i said its a matter of Preference but i really love the DBs that leave players room to grow and especially ones with very clear cut Player profiles that leave room for weaknesses and strenghts.
I know its not the creators of DBs to blame for this also as the game itselfs loves to create super guys over time too along the CA , but it has gotten really better over time with the Player roles and putting a Focus on offenive or defensive Talents. TBH i lately even see it gets even a Little unbalanced with specialty players too that have specialty Talents and big holes that sometimes dont make sense and open illogical holes. But i prefer those to all around super players with no holes at the age of 19/20.

Anyway every effort helps and this DB is a great effort. Nothing is wrong, so much right and greatly done. Will surely hope the TBL DB might be a Little more strict and balanced , but what is right in the end is always based on opinion too.
As you said this is a great community, i am always happy to get those great DBs and the discussion to come to the best product. We always search the best Balance but there will always be players that say they have pants prospects and the DB sucks while others love that they still are just that and have room to develop. And then there are always those wonderkids that put their stamp on the league with 20 years and the game basically knows only a Progress to the better and little decline , and that makes it extra hard to get those top youngsters "right". For oldies, they can easily rely on theri skill and be less in physics for me and still be valuable, same for role players especially. A second liner should have some scoring, but the third liner can already have those holes...for me the less the Talent the more the fun as you have to adjust the players to the roles they fit best, and good attributes in certain places distinguish a player especially. To say it superficial : If i see a Db and see just 20s and all attributes green it Comes across to me as if it doesnt really matter and all players are more or less the same. So i get more fun out of those DBs where i see man, this Team really has holes ,all others have too, the rookies Need to be developed the vets be slowl brought into other roles, a team has to be built, a philosophie..etc..thats the ultimate Goal..get away from who has the most perfect supertsars to Crash the net...as i said ..my dream...and only so much can be done for that via a DB ;-) But that brings me back to a Problem a have with this DB especially, all those awesoem Youngsters in the league with awesoem Attributes already..they have nowhere to go a lot more development wise, and that steals some fun too somehow.

A guy i like for example is Hischier, already top but with holes , his very low anticipation and especially positioning maybe are even too hard a handicap for the future but why not, and as i said the game is limited too saldy..would give him a little less physicals still, but then hed be a great future and already contributong Player i think that fits the development system also.
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby xECK29x » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:16 am

Beukeboom,

You might be trending to becoming one of my favorite Rangers fans. I really appreciate the comments, and I agree in all sports games, or those that have a "sim" component it appears in order to be a "top" tier player the game sees a need for the player to be at least "great" (i.e. above ~75% of the peer group) in all stats (mental/physical/raw ability). There is a strong need for simulation games (FHM/EHM) to disconnect the stats you can greatly improve over a career (physical maturity and hockey skills (i.e. skating, shooting, stick skills, awareness to an extent) from mental attributes or "hockey sense". Mental stats (i.e, attributes less likely to change or "those you are born with") like determination, anticipation, leadership, work ethic should be detached from the overall PA or have a separate CA/PA score. This would enable more accurate representation of players and allow for the creation of a "flawed superstar".

It's hard to articulate via a message board but I have seen it myself where if I set a players CA to something really high and leave all the stats at 0 (for auto generation), even for a sniper his checking ability, toughness, defensive skills all have to be a decently high (above average) score, which results in less flaws in a high-end player. I will try to play with this more and more as the db matures (if the interest from the public remains).

The counter-point to the argument is even the holes in the game of a "generational" talent, like Hischier. With his flaws in one or two categories, isn't he still better then most of his peer group? Isn't that what makes special players special? It's an interesting argument and the fact we can have it here is why I love this community so much. If I were to release a similar roster for EA games I would be crapped on for every single little personal preference from folks.

I would recommend if anyone feels certain players require certain tweaks, not that I wouldn't take those suggestions into account (please provide evidence if possible of why you feel a certain way like stats or video clip) but I'd recommend try downloading the EHM Editor and giving it a shot to tweak yourself, that is how I got into this.
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby watts555 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:48 pm

Beukeboom wrote:Also on the other end--- Marleau is awesoem but does he really have Acceleraton and Speed at 37 years at 15 and 17?


Have you seen the man skate? He is quite fast for someone at the age of 37
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby Beukeboom » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:49 pm

As i said i am not really a pro scout or anything and havent seen many NHL games even apart from the Rangers, i know Marleau has built his Career on his speed a lot and still is fast for his age. But in saying that you already admit age Plays a factor in speed and i DO believe even amrleau feels it. So saying he is stil fast for his age means he was a rocket and now is about average for an NHL Player which still is great when others loose their wheels with 30 already, but still it says he probaly isnt at elite speed compared to the comparison Group anymore. well all in all ist not even about one Freak of anture anyway, when i look at the players in the DB Overall.which from a data standpoint i really love and the Research that went into it, i just seem awesome vets, awesome Youngsters that are so good they cant even develop properly anymore and all in all i fear on forst sight it might be a little too little differnce in the attributes overall in the league.
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby archibalduk » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:45 pm

watts555 wrote:
Beukeboom wrote:Also on the other end--- Marleau is awesoem but does he really have Acceleraton and Speed at 37 years at 15 and 17?


Have you seen the man skate? He is quite fast for someone at the age of 37


I don't pretend to know the answer, but is he fast for someone in the NHL? This is the key question. The fact someone is fast for his age doesn't have all that much bearing on his rating - the rating scales are for the full hockey world for players of all ages.
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby watts555 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:22 am

archibalduk wrote:I don't pretend to know the answer, but is he fast for someone in the NHL? This is the key question. The fact someone is fast for his age doesn't have all that much bearing on his rating - the rating scales are for the full hockey world for players of all ages.


He is fast for someone in the NHL. And what I am saying is, just because he is 37 years old, doesn't mean that he isn't fast. Also, he is an exception, because, tbh, most 37 year olds have lost their speed.
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby PeakyBlinder » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:21 am

Minor issue here, you forgot to mark Martin Jones's Stanley Cup run over in San Jose's as a "playoff" So instead of having 37 wins that season, the game records him as having 51 wins, breaking Martin Broduer's and Holtby's 48 wins in a season.
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby xECK29x » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:48 pm

PeakyBlinder wrote:Minor issue here, you forgot to mark Martin Jones's Stanley Cup run over in San Jose's as a "playoff" So instead of having 37 wins that season, the game records him as having 51 wins, breaking Martin Broduer's and Holtby's 48 wins in a season.


Fixed!
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby war_and_peaches » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:38 am

I had some adjustments in mind for CBJ, not sure if you will find these useful since I use 1-20 (sorry, old habit from playing Football Manager):

-Werenski's wrist shot should be 1-2 points higher than his slap shot, 17/18 vs 16.
-Jones' anticipation should be his highest stat. High end of 17 seems right. Positioning should come up a bit, creativity come down slightly.
-Jenner's wrist shot and slap shot should be about 2 points lower. He is never scoring 30 goals again.
-Anderson's deflections should be in the 14-15 range, but otherwise you did a nice job with his buff.
-Foligno's deflections should be at least 16. Deking should be 15. Passing should come down about a point. Speed and balance should come up a bit.
-Wennberg's anticipation should be in the 15-16 range, balance should be his highest physical around 16-17 and his defensive technicals should be slightly higher across the board.
-Bjorkstrand's speed, acceleration, and agility should be 2-3 points higher.
-Savard's passing and slapshot should be 3 points lower and his defensive technicals should be slightly higher.
-You did a good job with Nutivaara, which pleases me, since he is really underrated and coming into his own.
-Dubois' offensive stats should be higher across the board. Passing/creativity 15, stickhandling/anticipation/off the puck 14, flair/wrist shot 13, slap shot/deking 12.
-Calvert's checking and hitting should come up a bit, shots, passing, and stickhandling should come down.
-(Unfortunately not a Blue Jacket anymore, but) William Karlsson's defensive stats should be higher across the board, especially pokecheck, positioning, and anticipation.

I'll play around with the DB for awhile and see what else I can come up with. I love what you have done for the most part, though. Let me know if there is anything in particular you would like me to problematize.
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Re: [2017-18] xECK29x Premier Pivot Rosters v2

Postby xECK29x » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:09 am

war_and_peaches wrote:I had some adjustments in mind for CBJ, not sure if you will find these useful since I use 1-20 (sorry, old habit from playing Football Manager):

-Werenski's wrist shot should be 1-2 points higher than his slap shot, 17/18 vs 16.
-Jones' anticipation should be his highest stat. High end of 17 seems right. Positioning should come up a bit, creativity come down slightly.
-Jenner's wrist shot and slap shot should be about 2 points lower. He is never scoring 30 goals again.
-Anderson's deflections should be in the 14-15 range, but otherwise you did a nice job with his buff.
-Foligno's deflections should be at least 16. Deking should be 15. Passing should come down about a point. Speed and balance should come up a bit.
-Wennberg's anticipation should be in the 15-16 range, balance should be his highest physical around 16-17 and his defensive technicals should be slightly higher across the board.
-Bjorkstrand's speed, acceleration, and agility should be 2-3 points higher.
-Savard's passing and slapshot should be 3 points lower and his defensive technicals should be slightly higher.
-You did a good job with Nutivaara, which pleases me, since he is really underrated and coming into his own.
-Dubois' offensive stats should be higher across the board. Passing/creativity 15, stickhandling/anticipation/off the puck 14, flair/wrist shot 13, slap shot/deking 12.
-Calvert's checking and hitting should come up a bit, shots, passing, and stickhandling should come down.
-(Unfortunately not a Blue Jacket anymore, but) William Karlsson's defensive stats should be higher across the board, especially pokecheck, positioning, and anticipation.

I'll play around with the DB for awhile and see what else I can come up with. I love what you have done for the most part, though. Let me know if there is anything in particular you would like me to problematize.



Thanks for this, I will definitely make these recommended changes.
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