The Blue Line

A Simple Tactic

Discuss specific areas of EHM knowledge; such as players, trading, drafting, tactics, training, practice etc. Teach us what you've discovered or ask others for their thoughts.

Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Lucious » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:06 am

This tactic is pretty badass, I was struggling with Jets and already had 50 games played stuck at bottom of my division and would need a miracle to get to playoffs which was my goal to begin with on the first season.

So, was desperately trying to find a way to improve and found this tactic, applied it and it didnt seem to work and I actually took on more goals than before but then I did a few minor changes and went through all my players stats and set personal tactics according to it also tried to keep is so that each line has 1 defending forward part from the first line and KABOOOM started winning, the last 10 games were packed with excitement.

At the end I had 4 games left to play was 2 points below the playoff line with Wild being above the playoff line and would face them on the next match...and dammit lost it and wild were 4 points ahead now, then the next 2 games straight wins, back in the game and wild lost two so we were tied in points again then last game vs. Kings, 0-1 lead yay! 1-1, 2-1 Adam Oates! 2-2!! 3-2 rubbish!! 3-3!!!! and at 59:52 Marko Dano lights the buzzer! Oh the joy, then I realize that Wild had to lose their game for me to advance, press continue and see the result flashing in the sim screen THEY LOST 3-2!!

Now im in the playoffs facing sharks and two games down and won both they were away games too.

btw. Patrik Laine, Marko Dano and Nikolaj Ehlers have been asbolutely scorching with this tactic heres screenshot of Patrik Laine after the season he did more points in the last 20 games than in the first 60 haha.
Image
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby nine-o » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:17 pm

Awesome! Yeah the personal tactics are absolutely critical - this tactic works well because the entire team is constantly pushing the puck up-ice. If someone isn't set to carry the puck or join the rush... it just doesn't work as well.

Its super-simple, and that's what I like about it - it tends to lend itself to experimentation and the tips/tricks of others. Glad you had success!
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Lucious » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:55 pm

Update, took the cup home on the first season no trouble taking down the opposition in the playoffs. St. Luis Blues put up the biggest fight notching 3 wins.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Warkittens » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:44 pm

I put this into play about 2/3 into the season. Ended up 5th for the playoffs. Rolled into the finals having only lost two games in the playoffs.

I was heartbroken. We lost the finals 4 games to 3. and 4-3 in triple overtime.

Thanks for the tactics. They rock.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby nine-o » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:38 pm

Warkittens wrote:I put this into play about 2/3 into the season. Ended up 5th for the playoffs. Rolled into the finals having only lost two games in the playoffs.

I was heartbroken. We lost the finals 4 games to 3. and 4-3 in triple overtime.

Thanks for the tactics. They rock.


That's probably the most heartbreaking thing I've heard this side of the 2011 Vancouver Canucks haha. Glad the tactics worked though!
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Shindigs » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:20 pm

Wait, carry puck actually works now? I hadn't used it since back in March last year. Because back then it costed every player who had it on about 10 condition per game, making con management impossible. But it didn't actually make them perform any better.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby philou21 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:08 pm

I don't have any problems with the conditionning of my players with that option. The only thing I check is that my star players so not play on the pk so they get too much ice time and end up being tired more than usual.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Shindigs » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:13 pm

philou21 wrote:I don't have any problems with the conditionning of my players with that option. The only thing I check is that my star players so not play on the pk so they get too much ice time and end up being tired more than usual.

Yeah, I do recall there being a patch that changed how condition worked a good while back. And it's so much easier to manage now regardless. I personally just prefer to use "Overload" for my forwards almost every game instead, it drops the ones with the most icetime to 80 after a game so really don't want any extra con drain on top of that. The only player i really want to puck carry rather than pass on my team is Ehlers, and he does that even without the option. So never got around to testing it again.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby nine-o » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:16 pm

Somewhat embarrassing with all the good material you're putting up Shindig, but this tactic basically had nothing to do with the game's mechanics. I'm a programmer myself - spreadsheeting and testing feels like work, and I'd prefer to do that for money haha.

The inspiration for this tactic was actually taken from real life - I've create it entirely under the assumption that what works in real life (carrying the puck rather than dumping it in, sound positional play, lane/zone coverage, rolling lines, pushing the puck up ice via skating or passing, prioritizing skill over everything, etc) to improve possession and win more games would/should work in a simulation. Basically, for those who follow hockey IRL... its the Mike Babcock system haha, or as close as the game's tactics allow (can't really have them "cut off the top", i.e. take away the pass to the D by covering the passing lane itself, which is a key part of the Babcock system).

I think its a credit to the developer that what works IRL seems to work so well in-game!
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Shindigs » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:16 pm

I mean my system was also just me trying to get everyone to play their natural game while vaguely sticking to the attacking type of hockey I like. The reason I focus so hard on having players play to their attributes with personal tactics is that I've seen first hand how horrible certain players become when they are "forced" to play something that isn't their natural game. And based on performance, the game agrees with that philosophy.

Really though I feel like the two biggest keys to the success my Jets are currently having is shot targetting and checking the opposing team's top two scorers every single game. Plus that actually gives me something interactive to do for each game. And sometimes it isn't clear cut who the top scorers actually are, or they are split between lines etc. So there's a lot of personal touch to be had there. The one game I forgot to set marking on the opposition we lost 8-3 (in the Stanley cup finals, whoops!). Which is probably just coincidence, but it seems to help A LOT. And more importantly it's something that can be implemented into any and all tactical systems, which is always neat.

Checking shines the most when you're up against a 1-line wonder team like Dallas and Chicago have been for most, if not all, of the 10 seasons in my current save. As long as you mark Kane+Panarin vs. Chicago and Seguin+Benn vs. Dallas they pretty much cannot win. Unless I have to play my backup goalie. He should get the opposing team's MVP just about every game he plays for us. The man has turned getting a sub .850 save% into an art form, it's mildly infuriating.

Edit: Forgot to mention that those 1 line wonders are also very good to play your backup against, since they only have 2 scoring threats and you will check both of them out of the game. There likely won't be many goals scored for the opposition almost regardless of your goalie quality.
Last edited by Shindigs on Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby nine-o » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:20 pm

Shindigs wrote:is shot targetting and checking the opposing team's top two scorers every single game


The shot targeting was the best advice I've gotten on here - especially come playoff time and the inevitable hot goalie. Works like a charm to get those elusive 3-4 goals.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Shindigs » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:52 am

nine-o wrote:
Shindigs wrote:is shot targetting and checking the opposing team's top two scorers every single game


The shot targeting was the best advice I've gotten on here - especially come playoff time and the inevitable hot goalie. Works like a charm to get those elusive 3-4 goals.

Yeah, the only goalies that could potentially give us a playoff scare is Price and Holtby. Everyone else is low .900s or worse. Won the cup 9 out of 10 seasons so far, with the only loss being due to shenanigans with Holtby and the backup having opposing weaknesses and Holtby getting injured after I had set the tactical settings for the series causing us to face their backup who held us to 1 goal with 38 shots agains. Then the game after, due to Holtby still being day-to-day and that other goalie destroying us game one, I was gambling that they'd use him game 2 as well. Nope, they played Holtby through a groin strain and he shut us out with 32 saves. In the following 3 games our goalie had an abysmal .87x twice, causing us to lose that 2nd year final in 5 games.

I really wish there was a working UI element to show you which goalie is starting for the opponent when you don't watch the games. The 2D engine is so bad that I refuse to watch it even though stuff like that can happen to lose us a cup. It honestly beats the alternative, but there is no reason you shouldn't be able to know who's starting the game when you're simming it. In a perfect world there would be a way to set shot targetting on an individual goalie basis, just like you have personal tactics. That would require a somewhat larger UI overhaul, but it would be so useful. But I would settle for the scout report from your "scout next opponent" scout actually telling you the correct goalie. But because the tactic/roster changes that AI coaches do for a game is done in the loading screen where the game is simmed (If you let your own AI coach do lines and roster, you will see it happen to your own team). There is no way to know as the player, and that's just poor UI design.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Artoo_Detoo » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:23 pm

Hey guys,

Sorry I'm late to the party, but does anyone mind sharing what their tactics are on the powerplay and penalty kill? Both of my special teams tend to struggle. Thanks!
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby nine-o » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:34 pm

I don't deviate from my default tactics, actually - I simply set their personal PK tactics to be the most beneficial. My advice would be a really simple experiment - save just before a game, try out some tactics, then load it up and try again! You'll probably end up finding tactics that you're more satisfied with and speak more to your hockey "sensibilities", if you will haha.

I'd also say don't underestimate the value of an offensive player on the PK either - in my current retro Flyers save, my best PK guy is Scott Fraser, a waiver wire pickup I nabbed for scoring depth haha. He's fast and stickhandles well - watching the 2d he simply appears to rag the puck a lot. I believe Shindigs mentioned he uses Ehlers from the Jets in a similar fashion (Ehlers probably being even better at hanging on to the puck).
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Artoo_Detoo » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:20 am

Thanks, I'll try it.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby Shindigs » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:51 pm

Also keep in mind there is a lot of variance from year to year with your power play based on things you can't control; Like how well the opponent's goalie does. I've ran the same setup with the same guys for 7 seasons at this point, the best one is a 19.73% and the worst is 15.48% with no tactical or manpower change at all. Generally your PP% will start out in the mid to high 20s if you have a good setup. Then as the season progresses it just gets worse and worse, some years the freefall stops around 20% others it doesn't. Really isn't a whole lot you can do about.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby chrismac » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:42 am

Reviving this thread a bit just to say that I won SPHL championship with the Peoria Rivermen in one season using this. Slightly customized for players at that level of skill. Promptly resigned two days later and was immediately hired as the GM of the Springfield Thunderbird in the AHL. Let's see if I can so it again...
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby nine-o » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:12 pm

chrismac wrote:Reviving this thread a bit just to say that I won SPHL championship with the Peoria Rivermen in one season using this. Slightly customized for players at that level of skill. Promptly resigned two days later and was immediately hired as the GM of the Springfield Thunderbird in the AHL. Let's see if I can so it again...


Yeah, have you tried occasionally switching shooting to "heavy" or even "barrage"? I don't do it a lot but I find it useful in lower leagues (where the goalies aren't as good) to sometimes just throw everything on net, especially when things aren't going well with the usual tactics.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby SirWroom » Mon May 01, 2017 12:11 am

philou21 wrote:
nine-o wrote:I'm almost glad someone else experienced this problem haha. Sure is maddening, though its probably done on purpose (they're kids, they get tired more easily, yada yada).


But why the AI players don't seem to have this problem though? That's why it's frustrating. One of me player finished first scorer of the league with 112 pts in 72 games with a ratio of 8.3! In the playoffs we get kicked out in 5 games by the bottom team in the first round and in those games he did 3 pts with a ratio of 7.3. He's always been a clutch player in the regular season but now it's all gone? I know some players are really like that IRL but when your three stars who all did over 100 pts and 8 of ratio in the regular do that in playoffs, that's just weird IMO. It's almost like the game wants the AI to have an advantage. Since all those years I'm playing EHM I know it's not how the game works but still....it sucks.

It's just a bit demoralizing that each season when your team finish in the top 5 in the league it's always the same song. I really want to have a career that I'm starting at the bottom than reach the NHL one day but I just don't see how the hell I could win the Memorial Cup! :D I might get tired at some point and apply for a higher league even though I won nothing at all.

The only thing that's worked for me is balancing out my scoring evenly among three or even four lines (I play the Screaming Eagles in the Q... not exactly teeming with talent so its three for me) and using your overage slots to load up on goaltending, which I find particularly flaky when you get into the Memorial Cup... but yeah man, you aren't along there haha. Let me know if you figure anything out!


Except from my first line who destroyed everything in it's path, the other lines did alright I must say. My second line did good, they were all around 50-60 pts. Third line and fourth line all finished with 20-30 pts. I wish my third line would do a bit better though.


I had that problem sometimes in EHM 07, I solved it by starting with line-matching in the playoffs. Mainly I did it in the away games, but I went over to doing it full time at times if I felt my team wasn't necessarily the clear-cut superb favorite. Playing 1vs2, 2vs1,3vs3 and 4vs4. Alternatively 1vs3 and 3vs1.
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Re: Finally Found the Winning Combo

Postby nine-o » Fri May 12, 2017 6:28 pm

I had that problem sometimes in EHM 07, I solved it by starting with line-matching in the playoffs. Mainly I did it in the away games, but I went over to doing it full time at times if I felt my team wasn't necessarily the clear-cut superb favorite. Playing 1vs2, 2vs1,3vs3 and 4vs4. Alternatively 1vs3 and 3vs1.


To add to that, I doubt you'll have much success using line-matching with this tactic without a few tweaks - not because line-matching doesn't have merit, but more because the strategy here is really to spread out the scoring. I've found with a few tweaks you can adopt a more defensive style, and that'll usually make up the difference.

However, if you concentrate your scoring on the first line or two, and maybe lessen the intensity of practices, line matching can be pretty effective on lower-talent teams.
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Re: A Simple Tactic

Postby Sparty » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:27 pm

I had just won a cup with my team and the next season got off to a rocky start, hovered around .500 for about 25 games.

Gave this tactic a shot and I currently have a ten game winning streak. Pretty good results so far.

:-D
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Re: A Simple Tactic

Postby nine-o » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:42 pm

Sparty wrote:I had just won a cup with my team and the next season got off to a rocky start, hovered around .500 for about 25 games.

Gave this tactic a shot and I currently have a ten game winning streak. Pretty good results so far.

:-D


Nice! It's really adaptable too - you can tweak it to make up for poor goaltending, weak defense, poor depth, opposing stars, etc. I still use a slightly modified version!
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