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Player Contracts

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Player Contracts

Postby South-Side » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:45 pm

Did anyone notice an increased difficulty in re-signing players on your roster?

For instance I'm in my second season with the Winnipeg jets and i have quite a few contracts expiring in 2018. From these contract i would say that i was able to re-sign like 20-30% of the players to new contracts. The others do not want to resign for no reason , 1-2 want to test the free agent market. Mind you that i've tried this ahead of the start for the new season as soon as the option to offer a new contract was available.

I'll exclude from the discussion Jacob Trouba as there was some trouble with him in real life, i managed to sign him to a two year contract at the beginning of the game and when i tried to resign him it didn't work. Now at the beginning of the new season (2017-2018) he dislikes the club so there was no chance and i've traded him for a younger player and some picks as he still has a high value. For me it's weird that he dislikes a club where he got playing time and he won the Cup ?! But i treat him like a separate case.

But what is the logic for the other players? I'm talking about players that had playing time all season on a team that made the playoffs and surprisingly won the Stanley Cup (i know it surprised the hell out of me as well :) i thought i would barely make the playoffs ). So when you are a player like Ehlers for example, played on the top line and had the most minutes alongside the other line mates what is the logic of not wanting to negotiate a new contract? I mean give me some higher figures that i may or may not accept but give me something.

Anyone else experience this?
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby pantsukki » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:31 pm

Often the game doesn't display any demands from the player, but they will agree to offers anyway. Just try different amounts of money and contract lengths.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby South-Side » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:54 pm

I know what you're saying , tried it before and it worked. Seems it doesn't work that well at the moment.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby kev90 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:41 pm

Start offering new contracts to pending free agents six months before their deal expires.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby South-Side » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:40 am

Well as i said in my opening post i've been trying since the start of the preseason. As soon as the option is available.

I'm in December now, still no change. Hope something happens or changes soon as i don't want to lose Ehlers and the others.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby Tasku » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:44 am

I think it's realistic that players would opt not to sign, because in real world other teams will inquire about the player's plans when they know he will be out of contract. In EHM other teams can't approach a player until he has gone on the free market. This way you can't hold on to a player for ever. Sometimes you just can't help if you lose a player to another team.

I haven't seen this being as common as you say in your first post (being able to sign only 20-30% of your players to extensions), but I've seen this happen more often than before, for sure. :thup:
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby South-Side » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:55 pm

For me this is the first save i've played since the new update. I admit it didn't happen to that extent before the update, maybe something in it triggered this behavior.

Hopefully it's nothing and they will change opinion by January or after. My gripe was that they bluntly refused to sign, no numbers proposed or anything.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby South-Side » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:48 pm

Well problem solved in the beginning of February. All of my squad with contracts expiring in 2018 signed extensions. Some even multi-year.

Weird that it took that long. Also there are 2 that will test the free agent market. That hasn't changed.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby nino33 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:07 pm

South-Side wrote:Well problem solved in the beginning of February. All of my squad with contracts expiring in 2018 signed extensions. Some even multi-year.

Weird that it took that long. Also there are 2 that will test the free agent market. That hasn't changed.
That doesn't really seem weird to me at all, it fits with what I've read others say about EHM & what occurs IRL (I don't think players typically sign extensions 6-12 months before their contract expires); having some players who want to test the Free Agent market also makes some sense...
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby South-Side » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:39 pm

My only observation was that it changed somewhat from the older versions as i've been playing since EHM 2005 (and the older EHM for which you download ).

Yes Free Agent market is normal to me as well.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby Shindigs » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:18 pm

The main reason this happens is that players gain reputation from a lot of events, teams only gain reputation from winning the cup. And even then normally at a slower rate than the players on the team winning the cups does. I had the same issue with the Coyotes, I won the Conference 4 years in a row, with 2 back to back President's Trophies in there. Neither winning the Conference, making the playoffs or winning the president's Trophy gives your team rep. But in the process of doing this several things will have happened that gave your players reputation. Coyotes in my example start with an abysmal 7500 Reputation (that's 1500 less than Edmonton, the masters of missing the playoffs). So when Auston Matthews kept gaining rep year after year until he got the "Star" Reputation. Despite him gaining that from doing well on a team doing well, he got the "wants to move to a stronger team" entry. He still had that until I manually edited our rep to match our status as the best team in the league, who just happened to get goalied every single playoff. A lot of teams that are currently horrible IRL (Edmonton prior to McJesus in the 15/16 db) has 9k+ Rep because they used to be a good team. So they don't suffer this issue at all. But a franchise like the Coyotes that have never made it to a cup final since their inception has a 7500 Rep that causes all kinds of issues. Even players who don't have the "wants to move to a stronger team" tag but that have "Superb" Reputation will be very inclined to try out Free Agency. With your RFAs you should just make a qualifying offer and then let them go to Free Agency, the AI never makes Offer Sheets and the player will resign at a much much lower wage* than he was asking while still on your team once he hits free agency. It makes no sense, but that's how Riz made it work. If you play as a team with horrible rep I'd say just up their rep as you see fit with the db editor as you go along. Or win 5 cups in 6 years, that caps you out at 9999(9999 wasn't the cap, just a really weird coincidence) Rep pretty much no matter how you started off. That's what I did with the Jets at least.

Another note is that the reputation of your team has an impact on the dynamic difficulty of the game. If you are the coyotes with 7500 rep and you make the playoffs, the game thinks you shouldn't be able to make the playoffs (because you have 7500 rep, you shouldn't even be in the NHL with that) so it will penalize you hard. I tracked the goalie stats across 9 playoff series as well as the playoff centric goalie attributes of my team and my opponents (the attribute averages of the goalies were within 2% of eachother, in my favor). The results were that the game implements a 3% save offset on your goalies if it believes that you shouldn't be in the playoffs. It's immensely frustrating as it makes it so you need to outshoot your opponent by more than 2:1 every single game to have good odds of clinching 4-3. It's what made me start using custom tactics again. Because without it with a low rep team the game simply won't let you win. Your AI coach cannot get it done. The only reason I won with my incredibly dominant Coyotes finally in the 6th season was that I raged and changed our Rep to equal that of the 2nd best Western Conference team at the time. The 3% goalie playoff offset instantly disappeared and we swept the cup 16-0. It's just Grade A game design, as usual.

When my rep went from being the 2nd highest in the NHL to the highest in my Jets save my win% miraculously went from 76% to 92.7% in a season. Because the game stopped trying to penalize a team with "low" rep from doing better than their rep indicates, even though the Catch-22 is that you can only gain team rep by winning the cup. Which you can't do without the game not penalizing you (unless you coach yourself, then it's very easy to accomplish). It's pretty mind-boggling why it's done that way, but it is so you gotta deal with it as best you can.

*I was offering Kale Clague 6.5M a year on a 7 year deal while he was on my roster. He declined, so I gave up and let him go to free agency since he was an RFA anyways. Once he hit the free agency he happily signed a 7 year deal for 3.8M a year. So I now have a top 4 Dman who is a 2 time norris finalist on 3.8M a year for the rest of his career (until I trade his 30+ year old behind for 2 1st rounders that is). The year after the exact same thing happened with Adam Thilander, who is also a top 4 2 times Norris finalist, and he signed a 7 year 4M a year deal. Just mind-blowing. The game also does not make a distinction between RFA and UFA when deciding trade value of player who are about to go to free agency, an RFA with a qualifying offer has 0 value until he becomes an actual RFA, then you can trade his rights for full value again. Maybe I'm mistaken but if a team trades an RFA to another team, doesn't he become an RFA for that team then? Meaning that his value should be the exact same with 1 week left on his contract as when he's a qualified RFA. But it's 0 star until he's a free agent, then full value. Which is annoying if you intended to trade him in for Draft picks.
Last edited by Shindigs on Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby nino33 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:04 pm

FYI to anyone interested

The Arizona Coyotes are the current TBL Challenge team! challenge.php
There are a few basic rules...you are always totally in charge of your team, and there are some limitations on trades/signings

In season one 5 of 18 people made the playoffs, 1 person lost in the SCF
In season two 5 of 11 made the playoffs, 1 person won the Cup and another lost in the SCF
In season three 4 of 6 people made the playoffs, 2 people won the Cup
In season four 1 of 2 people made the playoffs, and that person won the Cup

The current Challenge goes until March 1st (so there's still time to participate for anyone interested; the results above will likely be added to by those who haven't finished seasons and/or posted yet)
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby StealthB2X » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:16 am

While we're on the subject of player contracts, what does it mean to sign a player to a 'part time' contract?
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby A9L3E » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:56 pm

That the player is not a full-time professional, i.e. ice hockey is only his side-job. At least in Football Manager this influences his total practice time.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby Alessandro » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:59 pm

I wish it was hard to renew contracts. At least playing in KHL and other European leagues, I can renew contracts with players almost at will. So the AI. I think in four years I have lost two players to the NHL in spite having multiple players drafted.
Players should be more ambitious. Too many players get to renew their contracts when they have a good season playing for a bad or mid team, they should not renew and move to a bigger team.
But a thing is that patch after patch it is becoming comparatively harder to renew contracts, but I think it's still too easy if you are not a strong team or for NHL-drafted players.

Another thing that annoys the hell out of me is that contracts value vary hugely if it's a renewal or an UFA signing, most of the times.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby Irriducibile11 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:44 pm

I didn't want to open a new thread, so I'm posting here.

I'm having this problem:

I wanted to check how low I can go for a contract renewal of a player. So I started at like 5 years at 8.5M per, and anytime he'd accept, I'd exit the game without saving, restart the savegame, and offer a lower number. I ended as low as 7.5. But since I am the biggest Lidstrom on earth, despite telling myself 100x "save the game, save the game, save the game", I didn't save it because I wanted to check if I can go below 7.5.
At my next try, he wouldn't take 7.25M, so I decided to exit, restart the savegame, and finally sign him at 7.5. But suddenly he's not taking it anymore. He's rejecting every offer. I can even go as high as 8.5, he still won't take it anymore.

How and why is that possible??? I never saved the game, so why does the same savegame suddenly change the outcome of a contract negotiation?? Why does he first take 7.5 and then rejects 8.5? And the worst part is: it has happened with two different savegames! (I have one before all negotiations, and one after I had signed two other players, but not this one yet)

How do I make him take my 7.5 offer again?

Thanks

PS: The funny thing is that any other player will take their offer over and over again, even if it's the same savegame.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby Shindigs » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:29 pm

Alessandro wrote:I wish it was hard to renew contracts. At least playing in KHL and other European leagues, I can renew contracts with players almost at will. So the AI. I think in four years I have lost two players to the NHL in spite having multiple players drafted.
Players should be more ambitious. Too many players get to renew their contracts when they have a good season playing for a bad or mid team, they should not renew and move to a bigger team.
But a thing is that patch after patch it is becoming comparatively harder to renew contracts, but I think it's still too easy if you are not a strong team or for NHL-drafted players.

Another thing that annoys the hell out of me is that contracts value vary hugely if it's a renewal or an UFA signing, most of the times.

Ditto on the renewal thing from an NHL standpoint. Needing to put in low-ball qualifying offers on all your RFAs and then resign them in the off-season rather than just renewing normally feels like you're abusing the game. But if they asked for the same salary as an RFA and as a player in your team, you wouldn't have to. The weird thing is players will purposefully ask you for a bridge contract that ends the last year they are eligible for being an RFA, meaning that you can then sign them to a comparably low wage 7 year deal that takes you till the day they start losing their legs. Either that is a really odd coincidence or Riz made them do that so you can "abuse" the RFA system fully. Either way it's just bad game design.

As far as it being too easy to hold on to guys in Europe, that's largely due to the issue with the AI not properly being able to handle RFAs; So they have little to no interest in signing their drafted players in the KHL/SHL/DEL/Liiga, even if they are better than their own players. If that core issue was fixed I think it's fair to assume those guys would actually get NHL offers to make holding on to them harder. But I'm not holding my breath, this is a huge issue and Riz made it pretty clear he's not got enough time to fix huge errors in EHM for some time due to needing to work a lot on FM.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby kennec » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:54 am

I notice differences also. But i like them.

before patch : All players that where going RFA-> make qualifying bid and wait for em go RFA and then sign them on better contract then they demanded on rooster.

After patch: Struggle like mad to resign them and they get more expensive going to RFA. Laine wanted 6.5m on hes last year of contract mid seson. After a good playoff he wanted 9.3m as RFA.

Fun with some changes and that players DEMAND MORE MONEY AFTER PLAYING GOOD.

Further i have notices players are more greedy and demand more money in all cases, ufa,rfa or squad player. Now its not just click renew contract and them send them a new one. Gotta chiesel them down or try see whut other players same quality is earning before offering so market value dont go down.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby Shindigs » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:50 am

kennec wrote:I notice differences also. But i like them.

before patch : All players that where going RFA-> make qualifying bid and wait for em go RFA and then sign them on better contract then they demanded on rooster.

After patch: Struggle like mad to resign them and they get more expensive going to RFA. Laine wanted 6.5m on hes last year of contract mid seson. After a good playoff he wanted 9.3m as RFA.

Fun with some changes and that players DEMAND MORE MONEY AFTER PLAYING GOOD.

Further i have notices players are more greedy and demand more money in all cases, ufa,rfa or squad player. Now its not just click renew contract and them send them a new one. Gotta chiesel them down or try see whut other players same quality is earning before offering so market value dont go down.

I think that's a niche case though. I've been using the RFA resigning strategy for over a decade in my 1.4 save and I've had two players demand more as RFAs; The other 30+ have all demanded anywhere between 30%-80% of what they wanted while still on the team. Some players are willing to resign for less specifically while you're in a playoff, the second the playoff ends their wage demands go back to normal. This is a pain when playing in swe-2 since the playoff series as a top 2 team only lasts for about 5 days if you sweep the opponent. So unless the guy responds within those 5 days you can't resign him to the lower wage. The second the playoff "ends" he forgets you made the playoffs at all. Not all players even get the lowered demands for being in the playoffs though, it's possibly linked to how high their ambition is.

But generally speaking you can assume with about 90% certainty that letting a player go to RFA with a qualifying offer is the best way to squeeze the most out of your salary cap. The other thing about signing from RFA is that they normally want a 5 year bridge contract from RFA, as a player they normally only want 3-4 years; Sometimes they only want a 2 year deal. The same with that final RFA contract when they're 26, the combination of them wanting a 7 year contract as an RFA and 90% of the time being willing to sign it for less than as a player on your roster makes it so you can get very beneficial contracts that last right up to when they lose their legs.

Sometimes you get the case where they get a huge rep boost at some point in the season that will push their demands much higher, but if that happened it was most likely because they played so well they should be on a bigger deal regardless. If their loyalty is high enough and their ambition low enough, even that won't matter. I always look at resigning them when you get the 6 month and 3 month news items; Just to see if they want a beneficial deal, 9/10 they won't so I just let them go to RFA. If a player has an insane wage demand in RFA just let them sit for a while, either they file for arbitration (and you'll win it, because they are asking for a silly wage); Or their demands drop and you just resign them later in the off-season. The only downside to that tactic is that sometimes their attributes will drop slightly in the summer from not being on your practice schedules; But they should gain it all back during training camp.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby madball.1982 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:33 am

kennec wrote:I notice differences also. But i like them.

before patch : All players that where going RFA-> make qualifying bid and wait for em go RFA and then sign them on better contract then they demanded on rooster.

After patch: Struggle like mad to resign them and they get more expensive going to RFA. Laine wanted 6.5m on hes last year of contract mid seson. After a good playoff he wanted 9.3m as RFA.

Fun with some changes and that players DEMAND MORE MONEY AFTER PLAYING GOOD.

Further i have notices players are more greedy and demand more money in all cases, ufa,rfa or squad player. Now its not just click renew contract and them send them a new one. Gotta chiesel them down or try see whut other players same quality is earning before offering so market value dont go down.


It gets a bit silly IMO at times. I was using the Coyotes and Domingue (sp), G, spent the first year in Tucson, no call-ups, went to re-sign and he wants $2.3M/3yrs. What part of playing in the AHL gives you the right to 2.3M/yr???
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby Shindigs » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:00 pm

madball.1982 wrote:
kennec wrote:I notice differences also. But i like them.

before patch : All players that where going RFA-> make qualifying bid and wait for em go RFA and then sign them on better contract then they demanded on rooster.

After patch: Struggle like mad to resign them and they get more expensive going to RFA. Laine wanted 6.5m on hes last year of contract mid seson. After a good playoff he wanted 9.3m as RFA.

Fun with some changes and that players DEMAND MORE MONEY AFTER PLAYING GOOD.

Further i have notices players are more greedy and demand more money in all cases, ufa,rfa or squad player. Now its not just click renew contract and them send them a new one. Gotta chiesel them down or try see whut other players same quality is earning before offering so market value dont go down.


It gets a bit silly IMO at times. I was using the Coyotes and Domingue (sp), G, spent the first year in Tucson, no call-ups, went to re-sign and he wants $2.3M/3yrs. What part of playing in the AHL gives you the right to 2.3M/yr???

That's pretty much what all goalies that have enough about them that some other team might want them ask for in their bridge contract, unless they have 10+ loyalty. It leads to a bit of a revolving door policy with your backup goalies.

It doesn't really make sense from a realism standpoint that they ask for that much, but it's why I refuse to draft low loyalty players; There simply is no way to fit more than 1-2 low loyalty players on your team with the salary cap, and they won't be a very good use of cap space relative to other players anyways.
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Re: Player Contracts

Postby Alessandro » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:01 pm

madball.1982 wrote:
kennec wrote:I notice differences also. But i like them.

before patch : All players that where going RFA-> make qualifying bid and wait for em go RFA and then sign them on better contract then they demanded on rooster.

After patch: Struggle like mad to resign them and they get more expensive going to RFA. Laine wanted 6.5m on hes last year of contract mid seson. After a good playoff he wanted 9.3m as RFA.

Fun with some changes and that players DEMAND MORE MONEY AFTER PLAYING GOOD.

Further i have notices players are more greedy and demand more money in all cases, ufa,rfa or squad player. Now its not just click renew contract and them send them a new one. Gotta chiesel them down or try see whut other players same quality is earning before offering so market value dont go down.


It gets a bit silly IMO at times. I was using the Coyotes and Domingue (sp), G, spent the first year in Tucson, no call-ups, went to re-sign and he wants $2.3M/3yrs. What part of playing in the AHL gives you the right to 2.3M/yr???


Can you please tell us what year you were playing, how old was Domingue, etc?
Maybe a screenshot of his history?
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