Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15 / FHM 2

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Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15 / FHM 2

Post by archibalduk » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:40 pm

Unfortunately it looks like FHM 14's final engine patch and FHM 15's release are both delayed:
JeffR wrote:Guys, I'm as frustrated as you are at this point by the lack of progress. Probably more - FHM is the largest part of my income, so the longer the delay before the new version, the leaner this winter is going to be for me. And it's pretty obvious at this point we're not on track to release either the next patch or the new version of the game when we wanted to. But right now, I'm in a difficult situation where giving you any more details about what's going on could result in things getting delayed even further. All I can do at this point is ask for your patience during a difficult time for us. That's a lousy and terribly inadequate explanation, I know, and I understand if anyone doesn't want to accept it, particularly if you've had enough of delays on our part. But it's all I've got to offer for the time being.
Original link: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/f ... ost3743253

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by dave1927p » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:08 am

It's sad to see, at least we have EHM to tie us over!

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by SkierP20 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:46 am

The cloak and dagger "I wish i could say something but I can't" stuff that Brad and Jeff are doing is almost worse for the game than whatever could actually be wrong. To a lot of people what it says is "I know we suck at communication and we've said that we were giong to communicate better with the community but we can't tell you this either." I know Jeff took the post down but he is right on one account: the damage has already been done.

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by dave1927p » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:48 am

SkierP20 wrote:The cloak and dagger "I wish i could say something but I can't" stuff that Brad and Jeff are doing is almost worse for the game than whatever could actually be wrong. To a lot of people what it says is "I know we suck at communication and we've said that we were giong to communicate better with the community but we can't tell you this either." I know Jeff took the post down but he is right on one account: the damage has already been done.
in a way yes, but in the end if the game gets to where people want it almost all will return. Especially all those craving for that EHM successor.

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by SkierP20 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:52 am

Right now, that's a big "if." Personally, i feel the issue has to be either a personnel issue, a legal issue (ie licensing) or a combination of the two.. especially since Jeff and Brad have both said that it is hitting them in the pocketbook. There is one scenario which, although it might seem like one that is a setback for the game could be the greatest step forward that it takes, but I'll keep to myself and just cross my fingers and see what happens... And no, its not canceling.

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by drebbin » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:28 pm

dave1927p wrote:
SkierP20 wrote:The cloak and dagger "I wish i could say something but I can't" stuff that Brad and Jeff are doing is almost worse for the game than whatever could actually be wrong. To a lot of people what it says is "I know we suck at communication and we've said that we were giong to communicate better with the community but we can't tell you this either." I know Jeff took the post down but he is right on one account: the damage has already been done.
in a way yes, but in the end if the game gets to where people want it almost all will return. Especially all those craving for that EHM successor.
IMO this is a horrible way to put out a game. While some are invested in the future of the game, many expect a game that works when they buy it... since when are customers paying for a game that works in 2 or 3 years? This game did not come close to reaching it's advertized goals and features and someone who just wanted to pick up a hockey game should not have to play for 3 versions before they get a working game. So basically you're paying $120 for the game.

The comment about "almost all will return" is just down right baffling to me. Lets put out a bad product, not finish it, not communicate what is going on at all but they are all desperate so they'll keep coming back.

I am generally a very patient, wait and see kind of gamer. I'm willing to give developers time to get things right but this game is beyond ridiculous with what they want you to be patient with...I've been an OOTP baseball player since version 3, so I've been around OOTP developments for a long time and what is going on with FHM is not what one would expect from them.

and then there is this...why am I posting here? Because it is Taboo over there to post negative remarks now because of the whole situation with Sebastion. Which no one knows what that is, and that is not hugely important but for a company that is striving to become more you can't leave all your eggs in one basket. There is no excuse for a game to be put on hold by a development company because a single individual is out for a long period of time. Someone has to be able to pick that up. I think this is a big reason that Markus has hired a second developer for the baseball game.

Dave I see you on the OOTP boards and I know your a mod for FHM and you're trying to keep the peace. I am not meaning to take shots at you. It's just the entire FHM debacle is laughable and I needed to vent because I never do...

I want the game to succeed but my confidence in the current group for FHM is at about 1%.

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by SkierP20 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:59 pm

The whole Sebastian thing is weird..

Jeff and Brad post about how there is a situation that they cannot talk about that is taking money from their pockets.. And then days later, we hear from Sebastian about his whole situation. Seems like a strange course of events. Its not "there is a personal situation within the company that is being dealt with" its "there is something going on that is costing us money personally." Just seems like a strange reaction. . .

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by cyclone » Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:25 pm

Drebbin, you say you still have a 1% hope factor left for this game

I am amazed it could be so high...
They keep making every mistake in the book, its been a perfect example of how not to create a sports sim

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by batdad » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:05 pm

Wow skier...A month old issue. Let us go back and rehash the release of OOTP 1 as well.

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by SkierP20 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:36 pm

Seriously, dude? Yeah, its a month old issue but its pretty relevant still because it effects the pending release of the patch. And its being mentioned also because as a poster stated above, to talk about it on the OOTP boards is "taboo." If you have the game that you wanted, even from a first release, then kudos to you.

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by drebbin » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:11 pm

batdad wrote:Wow skier...A month old issue. Let us go back and rehash the release of OOTP 1 as well.
And this is the typical response that we get from apologist. In the defense of Skier I am the one that started the rehash of this issue because it is frustrating.

Lets look at OOTP1 vs FHM14

First off OOTP1 was a VERY niche crowd. It was the beginning of it all for OOTP developments and I would expect that there were issues. However I bet there were very few people who purchased it and that the features set and the advertized use of that set was not nearly as high. What many fail to understand is you are talking about a first version of a game (OOTP1) put out by an independent programmer. It most likely wasn't even a gaming company at that time. FHM14 is being produced by a company that has had over 10 years of growth and there should be no comparison between OOTP1 and FHM14. FHM14 should be much more advanced in every facet and should at least meet the functionality of that game. It does not...

I even broke out FHM14 after writing this yesterday. I was intent on playing it and looking past it's short comings and after about 35 minutes I just couldn't handle it anymore. It is just not a good game. Believe me I wish it was and in pangs me to rip on a game that Markus is behind but it has to be done.

Even worse than the game has been the way the whole thing has been handled from jump. The game was bad at first but it was like pulling teeth to get them to admit it...once they did, yes they admitted that they probably bit off more than they could chew but they have done very little to rectify that and get upset when someone ask for an update after 6 - 8 weeks of silence. Come on!!! The last post by Sebastion was September 5th!!!!!! If he is not currently working on the game then how about Malte? I don't want to hear anymore about how posting takes time from coding...blah blah blah. If nothing is getting done then why does it matter.

It was the end of January when the new match engine patch was announced. It was mid Julyish when Sebastion said he was at the finish line. Just about ready for testing. Now it's complete silence with the exception of poor Dave and Brad who try to keep the peace which isn't very hard since no one is there anyway or they've just stopped giving a care.

Anyhow like I previously said I am usually very patient, but this ordeal is complete BS.

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by batdad » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:44 am

Never laughed so loud. Have a look at the history of my posts on this so called game and I'm an apologist. Lol. Fact of the matter is my comment to skier was because at this point ...I could not give a rats ass about this game. It's dead to me and clearly to most. To rehash something that was a month old serves no purpose to me. Plus skier has a rep in all 10 of his posts for being ...well..a repetitive poster who likes to rehash the same old point and argument over and over and over.



Next someone will probably call me a Ranger fan.
If you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it. So read a little history before making a comment.

I did t even read past your first line and don't even know your user name ...because well...since you haven't take the time to you know read and learn anything why would I bother?

Skier take it as a compliment that I actually know who you are. :)

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by drebbin » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:13 pm

batdad wrote:Never laughed so loud. Have a look at the history of my posts on this so called game and I'm an apologist. Lol. Fact of the matter is my comment to skier was because at this point ...I could not give a rats ass about this game. It's dead to me and clearly to most. To rehash something that was a month old serves no purpose to me. Plus skier has a rep in all 10 of his posts for being ...well..a repetitive poster who likes to rehash the same old point and argument over and over and over.



Next someone will probably call me a Ranger fan.
If you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it. So read a little history before making a comment.

I did t even read past your first line and don't even know your user name ...because well...since you haven't take the time to you know read and learn anything why would I bother?

Skier take it as a compliment that I actually know who you are. :)
My only reply to you is "Wow". What a pompous arrogant expletive you are...

Other than that it would have been okay for you to point out that I was misinformed about your true feelings of the game and may have taken your post out of context without well, you being a pompous arrogant expletive.

There, I've already learned one thing from history.

Thanks for your support.

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by oldfatbaldguy » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:23 am

drebbin wrote:
dave1927p wrote: since when are customers paying for a game that works in 2 or 3 years? This game did not come close to reaching it's advertized goals and features and someone who just wanted to pick up a hockey game should not have to play for 3 versions before they get a working game. So basically you're paying $120 for the game.

The comment about "almost all will return" is just down right baffling to me.
Sadly, this is the way I feel about it, too. It's not the only time I've invested a few bucks to assist development in a new game that did not, or might not, pan out, and I don't resent it. But am I going to throw more money at it? That would require more confidence than I have that the game will ever be more fun than EHM 2007. This is the first time in quite a while I've even looked at a thread for news about FHM, because I've been playing EHM and not worrying about FHM. Still got FHM 14 on my computer. Will download the long-awaited match engine update, if that ever happens.

I know there's a lot I don't know about what's going on, but I sense an ill-fated decision by a small band of committed game developers to bite off more than they could chew on a labor of love. Surely the question of how much in company resources can be devoted to a hockey game has been a factor at OOTP, just as it was at SI. And they just put so many balls in the air. All those leagues and historical mode in a first edition. Egad. I just think they tried to do more than they had time or energy to do, and they ended up with myriad complaints from multiple special-interest groups -- the historical mode group, the commissioner mode group, the must have a specific league group, and the people like me who just don't think it's fun unless you know more about what's happening in a game that's in progress. I doubt they'll ever be able to please everybody they tried to please, and because they didn't choose a more manageable list of in-game projects, they may never be able to please any of them. And their support will just fade away.

I hope I'm wrong.

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Re: Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15

Post by dave1927p » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:00 am

oldfatbaldguy wrote:
drebbin wrote:
dave1927p wrote: since when are customers paying for a game that works in 2 or 3 years? This game did not come close to reaching it's advertized goals and features and someone who just wanted to pick up a hockey game should not have to play for 3 versions before they get a working game. So basically you're paying $120 for the game.

The comment about "almost all will return" is just down right baffling to me.
Sadly, this is the way I feel about it, too. It's not the only time I've invested a few bucks to assist development in a new game that did not, or might not, pan out, and I don't resent it. But am I going to throw more money at it? That would require more confidence than I have that the game will ever be more fun than EHM 2007. This is the first time in quite a while I've even looked at a thread for news about FHM, because I've been playing EHM and not worrying about FHM. Still got FHM 14 on my computer. Will download the long-awaited match engine update, if that ever happens.

I know there's a lot I don't know about what's going on, but I sense an ill-fated decision by a small band of committed game developers to bite off more than they could chew on a labor of love. Surely the question of how much in company resources can be devoted to a hockey game has been a factor at OOTP, just as it was at SI. And they just put so many balls in the air. All those leagues and historical mode in a first edition. Egad. I just think they tried to do more than they had time or energy to do, and they ended up with myriad complaints from multiple special-interest groups -- the historical mode group, the commissioner mode group, the must have a specific league group, and the people like me who just don't think it's fun unless you know more about what's happening in a game that's in progress. I doubt they'll ever be able to please everybody they tried to please, and because they didn't choose a more manageable list of in-game projects, they may never be able to please any of them. And their support will just fade away.

I hope I'm wrong.
looks like you accidentally quoted drebbin for me in your post... :dunno: I don't agree with Drebbins comments but I Think you nailed alot on the head. I doubt their support will fade away...OOTP seems committed to the franchise and has been in business a long time - that is very reassuring, at least for me. The FHM team learned alot the hard way, but their vision and dedication is a huge plus. Things I'm sure are very clear to OOTP and FHM now in hindsight. Probably all lessons they are carrying over to their new football game.

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by nino33 » Wed May 13, 2015 5:33 pm

Sebastian Palkowski wrote:The old Match Engine was not bad, a pure simulation engine (not sure what the exact word is, it produces good stats but does not display the game flow at all).
Actually the old Match Engine was bad. The fact that here you are saying it wasn't bad, and advertising your next game while still not producing a match engine patch after all this time...IMO these are not positives

The exact words are "number/stats generator" not simulation. you never actually simulated the game of hockey (and I suspect that the difficulty in actually doing so has a lot to do with why we're still waiting on the match engine patch)

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by Sebastian Palkowski » Wed May 13, 2015 6:00 pm

nino33 wrote:
Sebastian Palkowski wrote:The old Match Engine was not bad, a pure simulation engine (not sure what the exact word is, it produces good stats but does not display the game flow at all).
Actually the old Match Engine was bad. The fact that here you are saying it wasn't bad, and advertising your next game while still not producing a match engine patch after all this time...IMO these are not positives

The exact words are "number/stats generator" not simulation. you never actually simulated the game of hockey (and I suspect that the difficulty in actually doing so has a lot to do with why we're still waiting on the match engine patch)
I will not argue about how good or bad the old engine was (IMO the pure statistical output was not bad at all). The concept of the old engine was mostly for long-time simulating (you can see it in the way we handled tactics) and I will totally admit that this was a big mistake from our side to start with. The new Match Engine was written from ground up, it is much more complex then the old one. We needed to re-do tactics from the ground up, how the engine handles fatigue, line changes and a million other things. All that takes a lot of time but in the end it was worth all the work we did.

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by nino33 » Wed May 13, 2015 7:18 pm

Sebastian Palkowski wrote:I will not argue about how good or bad the old engine was (IMO the pure statistical output was not bad at all). The concept of the old engine was mostly for long-time simulating (you can see it in the way we handled tactics) and I will totally admit that this was a big mistake from our side to start with.
So now you're saying the old engine was OK, the problem was you shouldn't have started with it?

What happened to your phantom apology (remember how you kept referring to how you've apologized? can you link to the actual apology? because I don't recall an actual apology from anyone at FHM ever, just you guys trying to use a phantom apology as PR)...seems to me you're talking it up like FHM1 wasn't the complete failure it was.

And I don't understand why you're advertising your new game so much before the LONG DELAYED Match Engine patch...and given the history of development so far this looks like more PR trying to cover up the truth - seriously Sebastian, you should just leave the PR to your PR people and focus on the coding (especially given how far behind you guys are in everything you've done)

All that matters is the quality of the game, and all the PR and screenshots can't change that

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by batdad » Wed May 13, 2015 7:34 pm

Still hopeful that one day this franchise be worth it. However ...I have to say that I agree with Nino. Totally.


This is a site for hockey management games and for hockey to be discussed. Lots of that goes on here but this thread is Advertisjng pure and simple. The person works for the company developing a game and is posting ONLY here and not involved in other threads or other parts of the site. It is great to have you here and to learn about the game and the same goes for Riz and all others.

But if this was thread was about kitchen appliances? Would have been tossed and the poster would have been as well.


Not that I want that to happen. I don't. I want Seb to be able to post things as he feels free. But this thread reeks of PR and not legitimate discussion of the game and how to make it better.

Sure you say you have stated to improve it and it will be vastly better. I hope it is. Because it has to be or its dead.

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by Sebastian Palkowski » Wed May 13, 2015 8:01 pm

Tbh, not sure what to answer here. We said sorry a lot of times on the OOTP forum. We admited the errors we did in the past and try to do it better now. One complain always was that we don't post much about the development process. Thats why I post this and people give feedback and we use that to improve (see last two Screenshots or the team colors as example). If Colin does not want me to post this or if I break any rule, I will of course stop but I don't see a reason. I try to answer as much as possible as well.

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by archibalduk » Wed May 13, 2015 9:04 pm

I'm not going to get involved in the debate about this, but I'm quite happy for screenshots, etc to be posted here - and for the game to be promoted generally because I really hope the game succeeds despite the rocky start.

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by batdad » Wed May 13, 2015 9:15 pm

Please do not take me the wrong way. I agree with Nino that things are not good with FHM< and have not been. However, I also hope for a good future for the game. Why wouldn't I? Just wanted to point out that This thread could be taken in a way that I do not feel was the intent of Sebastien at all. But...I can see why it would be taken that way.

My personal feelings are that the game has a long way to go for me to enjoy it as much as I have and do enjoy EHM in spite of its issues, which it definitely has. All games will have limitations.

I will not speak about the past of FHM as I have said my bit ...and have moved on. Just hopeful that the OOTP franchise for hockey someday gets things right. I see signs that they may, but I saw signs before, and hopefully this time they have it right.

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by nino33 » Wed May 13, 2015 9:17 pm

Sebastian Palkowski wrote:We said sorry a lot of times on the OOTP forum.
Can you provide proof/a link (and not a link to you referencing that you apologized, but the actual apology...because as I recall, there was never actually an apology)

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by kev90 » Wed May 13, 2015 9:28 pm

I think that what Sebastian is doing here is totally fine, not that I have any decision rights lol :-p but this website as a menu over top dedicated to Franchise Hockey Manager.

EHM: EA was promoted and advertised a lot on TheBlueLine website when it came out and what I have read about it sounded better than what EHM: EA actually is still after 3 updates.

For many years there were no hockey simulation games being developed. We have a possibility of two now.

I understand that there was a match engine being promised and that will only come with the version 2 of the new release. That probably hurts OOTP enough knowing that some people may not buy FHM2 on this only statement and it is legitimate if they felt lied to. OOTP made a mistake that others would have had the experience to prevent by keeping their mouths shut (Just like EHM: EA are doing by saying months/years, playing safe). You sure don't break promises when you don't say anything, but it was a new thing for OOTP and they were excited for them and for the actual fans of hockey simulation too. So I am sure they regret saying it and know it may have an impact on their sales. They don't need to be reminded and we all make mistakes, and there are consequences to actions and words and everyone is mature enough to make a decision of supporting or not a product/game for any reasons.

At the end of the day wether it's EHM or FHM, both needs your money to improve their game.

So I don't see the problem of Sebastian showing his product if EHM was also shown in the same manner here before it got released.

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Re: FHM 2 Teaser Thread

Post by batdad » Wed May 13, 2015 9:40 pm

EHM was not shown here before the release. OTher than well like a few hours. But that is not the point here really. The point here is FHM has A LONG WAY TO GO to get who would have been a large # of their customer base back. Guys like Nino, myself....others.

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