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Bad goalie stats, lower goal scoring

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Bad goalie stats, lower goal scoring

Postby leftwing42 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:43 am

I've recently started playing again after about a year of not playing ehm at all. The biggest thing I've noticed in ~3 games I've played around in is the terrible goalie stats in general. In an average season there might be 2 goalies with .921 sv%, ~5 goalies better than .910, and the majority of starters below .905. I don't know if there's a slider I have messed with by accident or what, but this is something that I'd really like to change. In my last savegame from mid 2016 (I understand the game has changed a lot since then) the top goalies would have better than .930 and the good starters would have .920.

The offensive game is also less than I remember, but probably more realistic based on today's statistics, but I'm also curious if that's something that can be tweaked. Any help would be great, thanks.
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Re: Bad goalie stats, lower goal scoring

Postby flyfree » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:56 am

In my experience, there are fewer shots in the game than IRL, but the goals scored are close to real life, so thats why the SV% is lower. Guess it's a code thing. If you want higher SV%, increase the goalies CA/PA abit, but then again that would lower scoring even more :-k
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Re: Bad goalie stats, lower goal scoring

Postby Shindigs » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:35 am

It's only going to get worse btw. Because there aren't enough high end goalie prospects in the db to keep the SV% flat going forward and the game can't generate .900+ goalies to save its life. I have a version of the db where I looked at which years current starters will start to go off the cliff (generally at 35 in EHM) and based on that made sure that there were enough prospects with PA ranges capable of making them NHL starters with premade attributes that made them not trash (unlike normal generated goalies) spaced out in such a way that in theory the level of goaltending in the NHL would stay consistent for the first whole goalie generation (which ends around 2030). In my test the leaguewide SV% was between .903 and .895 and with current league average last I hear being in the .905 range in the NHL this season that is about as close as you're going to get it. The top goalie chart ended up looking a lot more realistic in terms of what numbers they were putting up. Over the whole test SOG was between 68838 and 69731 with G between 6743 and 7309. So the amount of shots stayed very similar throughout with most seasons being close on goals scored as well; The 7309 goal season was in the 69731 shot seasons, making it the season with both the worst overall goaltending (.895) and the most SOG and thus causing that comparably high goal total. Half the seasons were inside the 6900-7100 range and most of the other 6 were just outside it in either direction. In the top 50 goalies in the the league at the last season 48 of them were the goalies I had edited, with only 2 of them being goalies generated by the game. Keeping in mind that every current starter but like 2 of them had gone back into the regen pool at this point serves to highlight just how abysmal the game is at generating NHL level goalies, but that's not exactly news at this point.

Note that if you intend to keep playing past 2030 the goalie quality will start to plummet like a rock with this type of fix since the likelihood of the retiring players' regens becoming anywhere near good enough is close to 0, and with there being close to no known goalie prospects in the world past a few years in the future you either have to already have a goalie in your system that can be your new starter; Or you have to draft a goalie in the first 2-3 drafts that will last you until 2030. Because after that statistically speaking every single goalie for every draft should be unable to reach NHL starter ability.

Some of the absolute top end regens might still be able to hit .900 plus, but in the test I ran only 2 of 28 retired NHL starter regens made the top 50 as previously mentioned, and only one as a .910+ starter (and that was only when he was having a good year). So essentially you can't have competent goalies in the NHL long term in EHM unless you are willing to go through each goalie prospect in each draft beyond 2020 and "fix" them, since the game can't generate them properly. Doing that you can keep the NHL goaltending somewhat the same forever, at the cost of needing to spend an extra hour or so per season to fix something the game should be doing for you.

Edit: Oh and I had to upgrade the CA/PA of about half the starters in the NHL as some of them have comically bad CA for how good they are IRL (Mike Smith being the most extreme example) but then Robin Lehner is somehow a franchise goalie in EHM, and Louis Domingue is a 1B so I guess it goes both ways. I also took the liberty to lower the offensive prowess of some of the 40ish point scorers in the NHL who are 60+ scorers in EHM; So that should no doubt have brought goalies up a bit too as they now have fewer beasts to worry about.

Edit2: If you project out the numbers for the current season you actually get around 81k shots and 7300 goals for a .910 league average SV%; So either the league average has gone up since last I hear what it was, but keep in mind I just did one test and I didn't check the RNG of it, as in maybe the PA average ended up being over/under the expected in the prospects. Regardless, since there aren't enough shots being taken it is hard to get everything right. With those changes at least goals scored stays around where you'd expect. Also keep in mind the way I calculated SV% in EHM was for speed by using league total shots and goals, which means all the empty netters pulled down goalie SV%, so the numbers I posted above for the NHL in EHM are worse than their real numbers, don't know by how much but considering how horrible EHM coaches are at timing goalie pulls it's probably a fair amount.
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Re: Bad goalie stats, lower goal scoring

Postby leftwing42 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:56 am

Ahh fair enough. If it's just how the game is than that's how the game is I suppose. It's just weird, because my old save from 2016 I went up until 2119 and the top end goalies always were above .920, with the superstars going above .930 sometimes, average goalies being mid .910. Wonder what changes caused this drastic drop off. I might end up changing the goalies stats like you suggested, just to give the realism. Hopefully it's something that gets fixed, whatever it is causing it. Thanks for the replies
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Re: Bad goalie stats, lower goal scoring

Postby Shindigs » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:06 pm

The 1.2 patch dropped goalie SV% across the board by at least 1% for essentially every goalie in the game. Riz is aware and looking into it for the next major patch last I heard. Also did you have a GM in the league when you simmed? Because goalies seem to get slightly different SV% when in a league with no player controlled GM in it. For my test I took over a team, disabled human sacking and went on vacation one year at a time.
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Re: Bad goalie stats, lower goal scoring

Postby Smirnov2Chistov » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:16 am

Shindigs wrote:It's only going to get worse btw. Because there aren't enough high end goalie prospects in the db to keep the SV% flat going forward and the game can't generate .900+ goalies to save its life. I have a version of the db where I looked at which years current starters will start to go off the cliff (generally at 35 in EHM) and based on that made sure that there were enough prospects with PA ranges capable of making them NHL starters with premade attributes that made them not trash (unlike normal generated goalies) spaced out in such a way that in theory the level of goaltending in the NHL would stay consistent for the first whole goalie generation (which ends around 2030). In my test the leaguewide SV% was between .903 and .895 and with current league average last I hear being in the .905 range in the NHL this season that is about as close as you're going to get it. The top goalie chart ended up looking a lot more realistic in terms of what numbers they were putting up. Over the whole test SOG was between 68838 and 69731 with G between 6743 and 7309. So the amount of shots stayed very similar throughout with most seasons being close on goals scored as well; The 7309 goal season was in the 69731 shot seasons, making it the season with both the worst overall goaltending (.895) and the most SOG and thus causing that comparably high goal total. Half the seasons were inside the 6900-7100 range and most of the other 6 were just outside it in either direction. In the top 50 goalies in the the league at the last season 48 of them were the goalies I had edited, with only 2 of them being goalies generated by the game. Keeping in mind that every current starter but like 2 of them had gone back into the regen pool at this point serves to highlight just how abysmal the game is at generating NHL level goalies, but that's not exactly news at this point.

Note that if you intend to keep playing past 2030 the goalie quality will start to plummet like a rock with this type of fix since the likelihood of the retiring players' regens becoming anywhere near good enough is close to 0, and with there being close to no known goalie prospects in the world past a few years in the future you either have to already have a goalie in your system that can be your new starter; Or you have to draft a goalie in the first 2-3 drafts that will last you until 2030. Because after that statistically speaking every single goalie for every draft should be unable to reach NHL starter ability.

Some of the absolute top end regens might still be able to hit .900 plus, but in the test I ran only 2 of 28 retired NHL starter regens made the top 50 as previously mentioned, and only one as a .910+ starter (and that was only when he was having a good year). So essentially you can't have competent goalies in the NHL long term in EHM unless you are willing to go through each goalie prospect in each draft beyond 2020 and "fix" them, since the game can't generate them properly. Doing that you can keep the NHL goaltending somewhat the same forever, at the cost of needing to spend an extra hour or so per season to fix something the game should be doing for you.

Edit: Oh and I had to upgrade the CA/PA of about half the starters in the NHL as some of them have comically bad CA for how good they are IRL (Mike Smith being the most extreme example) but then Robin Lehner is somehow a franchise goalie in EHM, and Louis Domingue is a 1B so I guess it goes both ways. I also took the liberty to lower the offensive prowess of some of the 40ish point scorers in the NHL who are 60+ scorers in EHM; So that should no doubt have brought goalies up a bit too as they now have fewer beasts to worry about.

Edit2: If you project out the numbers for the current season you actually get around 81k shots and 7300 goals for a .910 league average SV%; So either the league average has gone up since last I hear what it was, but keep in mind I just did one test and I didn't check the RNG of it, as in maybe the PA average ended up being over/under the expected in the prospects. Regardless, since there aren't enough shots being taken it is hard to get everything right. With those changes at least goals scored stays around where you'd expect. Also keep in mind the way I calculated SV% in EHM was for speed by using league total shots and goals, which means all the empty netters pulled down goalie SV%, so the numbers I posted above for the NHL in EHM are worse than their real numbers, don't know by how much but considering how horrible EHM coaches are at timing goalie pulls it's probably a fair amount.


Shindigs, what DB are you using? I keep hearing this from other posters, but since I use the default DB (with the fake players) including with the extra junior players and other players toggled on, I haven't quite seen this happen yet.
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Re: Bad goalie stats, lower goal scoring

Postby nino33 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:37 am

Smirnov2Chistov wrote:I keep hearing this from other posters, but since I use the default DB (with the fake players) including with the extra junior players and other players toggled on, I haven't quite seen this happen yet.
My understanding is the default DB is just the TBL database without real names (the extra junior/other players added are "fake players" though)
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Re: Bad goalie stats, lower goal scoring

Postby Shindigs » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:14 pm

How many seasons in are you? Essentially as long as the current starters are still active no new players will take their place, keeping the goalie performance stable for any team who still has a current starter in net for as long as the early/mid 2030s when the younger current starters begin to retire. However any team without one of those guys will generally have their goaltending in the toilet until they luck out and get one of the regens of a current starter. However if that starter was around .920 as a "premade" player it is highly unlikely he will be more than barely .900 as a regenerated player. Even if you stack the pool of goalie prospects as high as I have in my personal version of the db it's still nearly impossible to push league avg SV% above .900 in the NHL consistently. Keep in mind I play with the "generate no extra players" option to keep the database as real as possible as long as possible. If you don't or if you even tick the "generate more junior players" option you will essentially get so many NHL level prospects that you more or less brute force this problem away.
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