EHM The Blue Line

opivy: No

I've sold just 1 player so far. My 3rd String goalie for 520,000. But goalies are normally overpaid for...

I didn't sell anyone.. don't want to loose the Datsyuks and Zetterbergs of my team!! Starting the game I checked the market and my initial thought was "some guys try to offload their bottom line players for too much money!" So I have been staying away from the market screen since then.

By the way, what is this 'teamrating'? Some have 50, others have 30
But what does it reflect? The lower the better?

Rating is arbitrary, doesnt really reflect your skill. I settled it all out with the admins - they basically took all the money I earned from the sales, but we settled on a number that was a bit more fair as some of the players I had sold in that skill range OR (130-135) had fetched over 800,000 - I ended up for the 8 players receiving 250k - much less than I could have, but much better than 0.

I have bought quite a few 125-140 skill player between 10,000 and 30,000 dollars - many of these players have high ranks in the stats that matter for their position, filling them in nicely at age 15 while i offload players who's stats are less agreeable.

Split the series with Helmer - list 7-5 first game and won 8-4 2nd game.

opivy wrote:Rating is arbitrary, doesnt really reflect your skill. I settled it all out with the admins - they basically took all the money I earned from the sales, but we settled on a number that was a bit more fair as some of the players I had sold in that skill range OR (130-135) had fetched over 800,000 - I ended up for the 8 players receiving 250k - much less than I could have, but much better than 0.

I have bought quite a few 125-140 skill player between 10,000 and 30,000 dollars - many of these players have high ranks in the stats that matter for their position, filling them in nicely at age 15 while i offload players who's stats are less agreeable.

You sell players for 800,000 and buy others with the same skill for 20,000? Now i am totally confused.

I have found that I can buy players unbelievably cheap around 10 AM EST - and if I want a player to sell for a large sum I can set it for around 12:00 AM EST.

Also the players that were sold and di so welll were when th game started and everyone had their 2000000 dollars burning a hole in their pockets, prices have come down quite a bit on the mid range players now that everyone has blown their initial money.

Yeah, the market is insane at some points. Managers have no clue about what the players really worth. Honestly, actually, very few players in the game worth more than 100K. But you still find managers buying at 500+K. Same goes for staff. In both cases though, things have settled down a bit. Right after the restart, trainers were going at 1.5M on the market, now they go for approx 500K, even if some don't worth anything more than 50K.

The funniest in all of that? Most people don't know what they're buying nor what they're selling! They didn't scout their player/staff before selling/buying. Some will have nice surprises, others will have big time deceptions.

Using the market is always a lottery. Even more actually, where nobody knows what the players really worth.

To give you an idea, top players in the game should reach something around 1.500 attributes points. Maybe even close to 2.000 for some of them. That is with top quality practice facilities from the start of the player's career, top staff to help him improve, top career longevity and top qualities in the key attributes. Actually, nobody has all of it, although very few players got top qualities. By the end of the beta, after 8 seasons, most of my players had something around 600-700 attributes. One of the top prospect in the game had over 800 points at age 19. Now compare with the 120 points of our 20 yo guys Things will move relatively fast, so be very cautious with what you do on the market. It can give a little advantage if you're lucky, but it's more likely to destroy your team one way or the other...

Wow! 2000 points? I thought it's a bit like EHM with 200 maximum potential. I guess for the long term development it's better to stay away from the market.

But you are pretty busy on the market with your staff, Shadd. That guy that you sold for 900,000 ... i hope you reinvested it nicely into your facilities!

I refuse to be drawn into these market bidding wars!

The only piece of business i have done is sold of some scratches i had in my team, bought a 3rd string goalie for 12,000 and sold my original 3rd goalie for 600,000! Some people are crazy to get hold of players you can almost get what you want for them!

I'll stick to my team being used as an academy for a while!

After initially trying to get a couple of players through the market, I gave up after prices became daft. I've dipped in the market to get a couple of staff, but that's about it. I think I'm going the academy way as well now, I've already seen the benefits of upgrading with one of my youth players that came through, he's solved my left-winger problem.

i joined up last week and have been following your advice shad, building up my HR. I'm already up to level 3, building level 4 right now. I've stayed completely away from the market, even though its kind of frustrating only having 2 staff members and waiting 2 weeks before the next applications.

I asked this on the forums over there as well, but i thought i'd ask here too to see if I get an answer sooner, If I already have a training camp organized can I send more players to it or will this use up my second camp?

wildiowafan wrote:I asked this on the forums over there as well, but i thought i'd ask here too to see if I get an answer sooner, If I already have a training camp organized can I send more players to it or will this use up my second camp?

I've never actually had a training camp yet, I've had too many games... Maybe Shadd will know the answer.

Tip for anyone looking to make money: Buy cheap goalies. Train them up, sell them! Just sold my no.2 for 600,000 and bought another for 10,000!

getzlaf15 wrote:

wildiowafan wrote:I asked this on the forums over there as well, but i thought i'd ask here too to see if I get an answer sooner, If I already have a training camp organized can I send more players to it or will this use up my second camp?

I've never actually had a training camp yet, I've had too many games... Maybe Shadd will know the answer.

Tip for anyone looking to make money: Buy cheap goalies. Train them up, sell them! Just sold my no.2 for 600,000 and bought another for 10,000!

luckily I did get a quick answer over there, and it turns out it would have started a new training camp.

I've stayed away from the marketplace so far, I just made my biggest expenditure to get my marketing up to level 5.

edit: my username over there is nsblues if anyone in interested in any friendly games.

Nice to see that a few new guys jumped on the PPM boat Sorry if i haven't been here a lot lately to answer questions, but i actually have mountains of work, so not that much free time to make a jump on TBL actually

@Selne: No, attributes aren't noted on 200. There is no limit. The way the engine works (from what i've seen from intensive scouting in beta), you'd better have a realtively wide range between attributes. I don't know the exact proportions, but many of the great players in beta had a ratio of approximatively 4-2-1. Which means 4x for the main attribute, 2x for both of the secondary attributes, and 1x for the other attributes.

Let's take the example of a defenseman. 'Defense' is the key attribute. 'Passing' and 'Aggressivity' are the secondary attributes. 'Offense' is a third tier attribute, as well as (supposedly, see below) 'Shooting' and 'Technics'. 'Goaltending' is useless. So you may want the following repartition:
goaltending: 0
defense: 400
offense: 100
shooting: 100
passing: 200
technic: 100
aggressivity: 200
And here you've got "only" a 1.100 OR player, but already one attribute at 400. So clearly, don't look at 200 as a max

For a Dman, shooting and technic are only supposedly third tier attributes. The ratio between technic and aggressivity has a big influence on the number of penalties the player will receive. In our example, technic = 0.5 * aggressivity, which is way too low. Many players are so afraid about penalties that they build their guys with a 1:1 ratio, or even have technic > aggressivity. Useless. They won't take a lot of penalties for sure, but they spend excessive time training technic and will therefore not train some more key attributes for the position during that span. Here again, i don't know what the perfect ratio is. But i've seen that with technic = 0.85 * aggressivity, players don't take too much penalties. With technic = 0.8 * aggressivity, results vary: not too much penalties for weaker players, but a bit more for average players (ie 600-700 OR). So i stick with technic = 0.85 * aggressivity as a minimum. In our example, the Dman has 200 in aggressivity, so he should have a minimum of 170 in technic (instead of 100) to limitate the number of penalties he'll receive. That's one of the few exceptions to take into account with the 4-2-1 ratio.

Shooting is another story. I personnally don't link it in a direct ratio with the other attributes. If you make a PP specialist, a two-way guy, or a PK specialist (or anything in between), the importance of the shooting attribute is obviously not the same. So the ratio shouldn't be the same either. Else you'll have players with "too much" in shooting, and others with not enough. By "too much", i mean that if you have a highly skilled shutdown or stay-at-home defenseman who has a weak shooting quality, why loosing time to develop his shot? The time you get 10 points in shooting, you might gain 15 points in defense, 8 in passing and 7 in aggressivity, things that would make him a way better player in his role. The "not enough" situation is pretty much the opposite example: a pure sniper will need a lot more in shooting than what an average ratio would suggest.

So as far as shooting is concerned, i have a very strong look at the quality of the shooting attribute before determining any ratio for a player. Well, i look at qualities to determine all of my ratios so that they are very unique for each and every player (as each player is unique), but it would be complicated to go into details as i've got a pretty complex system in place. But grossly, my system is based around the 4-2-1 ratio mentionned earlier. Except for shooting. Top shooting quality = top shooting ratio, average shooting quality = average shooting ratio, etc.

That aside, yes, i've been busy selling staff members. Tons of people go with the sports academy, hoping to sell players at high prices. But as there's a lot of players on the market with globaly the same talent, prices go down. Developping the HR has all the advantages i've mentionned way earlier, but it also makes you one of the (relatively) few to sell quality staff members. Sooner or later, people realize they don't only need good players, but also good staff. They see it would cost them a lot to improve their HR, so they make the mistake of going on the maket. Many of them do it, and you're one of the few providers of talent, so prices go up and you develop your team faster than many other guys.

I've made barely 3 millions this season (roughly 75% of what my main sponsor offers me this season) by selling staff members, which allowed me to have training and regeneration facilities up to level 4 (instead of the level 3 i was looking for each), and let me enough money, combined with the regular season monetary rewards, to start the construction of my level 6 HR (instead of the level 5 planned), which will be ready just before the sponsor contracts negociations, which means i'll get even more attractive sponsors for season 2 than what i was hoping for. And i already have 15 players scouted, who therefore have their most appropriate practice regime now. That's also 15 guys who i know what they really worth and what i can expect from them in the upcoming seasons. Those who neglected HR and/or scouting know 5 players at best.

Those who started with the sports academy don't have all of that... They've got weaker staff, unknown players (slightly better, but badly developped), and at best one more level than me in practice and regeneration facilities. Thanks to better staff and better development, i can compensate that difference of one level. So i easily compete with them, but still have a level 1 sports academy... Easy to determine what will happen the day i'll start to develop my SA

You must have put a lot of work into developing your "complex system".


When i read the ppm guide, i thought about this 4-2-1 ratio, but looking at the performances of my players.. they don't seem to care about it very much! My best snipers don't really shoot many goals, and some guys with a weaker shot can't help to score big time!


And you are right on the penalties, many people are afraid of too much of them. Many guys try to sell good players who have a bad technique - aggression ratio on the market.

My "complex system" is in fact the 8th one i'm using since the start of beta. So i've tried many different approaches and already eliminated seven of them. I didn't have that much time to test that 8th system (only the last season of beta and this very first official season), but it provides some nice results so far, so i'll stick to it for a while... and eventually make adjustments later on if needed.

As for your players who score or not on a surprising way, there's no reason to be surprised in fact. Top snipers have what? 50 in shooting? Average guys are approx around 20... Lame guys are at 10 and under... Considering the fact that future top snipers will probably have something around 500-600 in shooting, those 30-40 points differential between best and weakest shooters is really not that much. It's globaly the difference we'll find later on between two snipers, while weak shooters will be hundreds of points behind.

Another point to take into account is that goalies are actually extremly weak! If you take a look around the game, the vast majority of the goalies have a save percentage below 88%, sometimes even under 85%, which obviously sucks (although some still claim they've got a top notch goalie, but i'm fed up trying to open their eyes). Goalies have only 3 attributes to develop: goaltending, passing, technic. Everything else is useless for that position. So they have 3 attributes to develop, instead of 6 for skaters. With the 4-2-1 system, skaters have a total of 11 coefficient points (4*1 + 2*2 + 1*3). And in fact somehting closer to 12-13, or even 14-15, when you take into account the special needs for shooting and technic. Goalies have just a total of 8 coefficients, so something around 40-50% less. Which means that they don't have to spend those 40-50% on other attributes than their three attributes, so they'll have better attributes than skaters.

If we take my exemple of a Dman in my previous post, he was a 1.100 OR with 400 in shooting. Considering he may have more in technic and maybe a bit more in shooting, he should even be a 1.200 OR player with 400 in his main attribute and 200 in his secondary attributes. A 1.200 OR goalie should be around 600 in goaltending and 300 in passing and technic, which means about 50% more in his top-3 attributes. The game engine takes that difference into account, obviously. But actually, the top-3 attributes for goalies are mostly at the same level than those of skaters. Same level, not 40-50% more. So the goalies aren't as good at their position as the skaters actually. Which is why the goalies all suck right now, and also why some guys who are extremly weak in shooting can score tons of goals. Give it a few seasons, and goalies will reach their ideal repartition and will have those extra 40-50% in their top-3 attributes. So they'll reach the 90-92% in save percentage, while weak shooters will have a hard time finding the net.

In that sense, the game engine for players development is excellent, as it means that goalies need a longer way to be effective than skaters. Which is exactly what happens in real life too. And having this with just a very simple system and very few attributes is a heck of a performance IMO.

I've managed to get my hr up to level 5 (no way i can get to 6 before sponsor negotiations) i've pretty much ignored everything else though i did get souvenir and concessions up and i've got maintenance at lvl 2 and my training will be there shortly. luckily i won my first round game so i wont have to worry about relegation so i'm hoping for a decent sponsor/tv deal.

wildiowafan wrote:I've managed to get my hr up to level 5 (no way i can get to 6 before sponsor negotiations) i've pretty much ignored everything else though i did get souvenir and concessions up and i've got maintenance at lvl 2 and my training will be there shortly. luckily i won my first round game so i wont have to worry about relegation so i'm hoping for a decent sponsor/tv deal.

Congrats on avoiding any relegation trouble

And reaching lvl 5 of HR is already good for a first season. I've been somewhat lucky to be able to get up to lvl 6. Well, i still need 13 days of construction works... next sponsors negociations start in 14 days, so that was very tight! But getting to lvl 5 was my objective, and it's good that you made it. With the new sponsors, i strongly suggest you to improve your practice department, as well as your regeneration department. Theorically, you should be able to bring both up to level 5 in season 2. Which means a total of 5.4M if both are at lvl 1 actually. Yup, that's more than what you had in sponsors this season. But way less than what you'll get.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but if my memory serves, season 2 sponsors were around 10-15M, or 15-20M, can't remember exactly. A huge boost from season 1 anyway, which is very logical when you look at what impacts on the sponsor offers:
- team strength: everyone starts at 1.00, but everyone is way higher now
- average team strength of the league: as all teams start at 1, the average TS of the league is easy to calculate for season 1 sponsors... It's obviously way higher now for everyone.
- level of HR department: everyone starts at 1... some stayed there... others get up to level 5 or 6...
- managers working at the HR department: we have none at the creation of the team, so none for the very first sponsor offers. Now many of us have 1 or even 2. Eventhough they are not highly skilled, it's still way better than having noone
- final position in the league standings: irrelevant for season 1 sponsorship deals, so that's a new factor that boosts the upcoming offers
- level of the league (I, II, III, IV, etc): won't change for most of us.

With all of those modifications, no wonder that season 2 sponsors will be 3-5 times more than those of season 1 (and maybe even more, i don't recall exactly). After that, the progression won't be as fast, obviously, as the different factors won't have such huge jumps than between seasons 1 and 2. To give you an example, my season 8 sponsors in beta were around 100M, so approx 6-7 times more than season 2, but over 7 seasons. Here we talk of a x4 ratio in just one season.

Then it was a bit different in beta as all teams were in the "Rest of the world" leagues, not in their respective nations. So the competition level was higher, which impacts on the sponsor deals. So don't take the previous numbers for granted, it's just an approximation. But gives you the point: big boost for season 2, then smaller boosts (or even decreases sometimes!)

Shadd666 wrote: Congrats on avoiding any relegation trouble

Thanks.

I finished the season 13th and really had little chance to move up as i only took over a little over a month ago. The 12th place team has gone dormant so that helped in me beating them i'm sure. My current opponent (9th place team) had also gone dormant but got a new manager right before our first game and creamed me 8-2.

I sent you a challenge for next month. i was going to do a home/away but the second date was over the 30 days. I'll probably go pro pretty soon, but i was waiting to make sure i enjoyed the game and it was worth it. it is.

I've just created a team: Montreal Blue-Thunder in Canada III8

They say it's play-off time, but i have a game in couple of hours. I don't understand :S!

Alex the Tall wrote:I've just created a team: Montreal Blue-Thunder in Canada III8

They say it's play-off time, but i have a game in couple of hours. I don't understand :S!

It looks like you are in the 5-8 placement games, which means you are out of the running for the championship and aree fighting for placement. looks like your team won its first game, so you only need to win one more to win the round (its best out of 3) Games play in a little over 10 hours (assuming you are on the same clock as me)

wildiowafan wrote:

Alex the Tall wrote:I've just created a team: Montreal Blue-Thunder in Canada III8

They say it's play-off time, but i have a game in couple of hours. I don't understand :S!

It looks like you are in the 5-8 placement games, which means you are out of the running for the championship and aree fighting for placement. looks like your team won its first game, so you only need to win one more to win the round (its best out of 3) Games play in a little over 10 hours (assuming you are on the same clock as me)

Oh alright, just got it!

My playoffs is going well. I'm the 4th seed. And i'm in the 2nd round against the 1st seed, leading 1-0. Game 2 today!