EHM The Blue Line

I don't want Tampa, Florida or Columbus in my division at all. I guess I could live with the Blue Jackets but they just had to stick us with the Florida teams too! No body else wants them and they'll sell out in at least two to three of these markets so seems like a wise choice by the NHL, not so much for the Northeast fans. I'd say for the 12,000 fans of tampa and florida are ecstatic.

dave1927p wrote:I don't want Tampa, Florida or Columbus in my division at all. I guess I could live with the Blue Jackets but they just had to stick us with the Florida teams too! No body else wants them and they'll sell out in at least two to three of these markets so seems like a wise choice by the NHL, not so much for the Northeast fans. I'd say for the 12,000 fans of tampa and florida are ecstatic.

This in the end was still orchestrated by guys like Dolan (NYR) who steadfastly refuse to leave their bus circuit divisions. My personal opinion is that one of the biggest reasons the NHL greenlit the unbalanced conferences was to punish some of the Eastern owners for being so absolutely against anything that resulted in them having to leave their bus/subway circuit. It'll get fixed eventually but for a couple seasons here, the Eats is going to be much tougher to get by in.

The Metro division has no business existing, and yet it does. Now, look at the teams in that Metro division. Some of those (PHI, PIT, NYR) are the ones that cause problems with just about anything that comes up quite frankly. The NHL jumps at every single thing those ownerships say or ask for.

The line about "preserving rivalries", etc, was a load of baloney from the start. They had to align that way because otherwise some of the Metro teams would have had their undies in a knot over having to acutally... *gasp*...travel.

Former Red Wing and Lightning player Shawn Burr has passed away at age 47. Burr had been battling cancer for a few years. He was one of my early favorite Wings, and when I think #11 in red and white I still always think of him first (sorry Dan Cleary).

Detroit's NHL 94 roster may be the most tragic in the game. Bob Probert, Shawn Burr, Brad McCrimmon, Steve Chiasson have all passed already. Vladimir Konstantinov obviously had his life nearly taken from him, and his life as he knew it was taken and he's had to battle just to walk again.

Primis wrote:Bob Probert, Shawn Burr, Brad McCrimmon, Steve Chiasson have all passed already. Vladimir Konstantinov obviously had his life nearly taken from him

Very sad...

Coyotes officially sold to new owners! http://sports.ca.msn.com/top-stories/ph ... w-owners-3

dave1927p wrote:doomski, I doubt the league will be expanding anytime soon. There are too many teams that are bleeding money and I just don't think Bettman will allow expansion. We all have heard the rumours of Seattle and Quebec or Toronto (should be Hamilton) but I highly doubt it will happen...more likely relocation will be the case.

Well, I guess you're right. Honestly, despite many teams bleeding money, I thought this would come sooner than later. I'm not even surprised anymore by the NHL's stupid decisions, so it wouldn't really have schocked me.

I got to thinking earlier: I would love to see the league expand.

With a catch though.

Give teams to all of them. Give teams to Seattle, Kansas City, Houston, and Las Vegas. Also give teams to Atlanta, Hamilton/Toronto, Quebec City, and say Hartford. 8 new teams.

Then stick them in the NHL2, a new circuit with the promise of Relegation/Promotion of 1 or 2 teams a year. This is not a "developmental" league like the AHL.

There are tons of positives to this. You get big-time pro hockey into these markets and make them prove themselves a bit before they can make the regular NHL. You give a swift kick in the pants to a few current NHL markets that would undoubtedly be relegated in a hurry because they tank for #1 every year. In fact, the whole concept of "Fail for Nail" suddenly become a lot less attractive when you lose your NHL spot. The league can still charge those expansion fees they love so much to these new markets and while they wouldn't match normal expansion fees, they're also lower risk because you're not risking you brand so much. Markets like Quebec, Hartford, etc get teams back. If a say Vegas fails, you didn't screw up the actual NHL to try the experiment.

You also create an 8-team circuit that potentially could battle the KHL for players, and keep more of these fringe guys in North America making good money instead of going overseas. Star on an NHL2 team one year and you could find yourself in the regular NHL again the next after all. More than keeping Russians in North America, it'd likely keep the North Americans. So suddenly your options are: 1) Toil on 4th line in NHL, not making much, 2) Jump to the KHL for a lot more money, 3) play in the NHL2 for maybe even more money and icetime than the NHL but without the whole problem of having to go to Russia and basically kill any North American credibility and recognition you're worked for.

I think it's high time a major North American sport brought about Promotion/Relegation and the NHL seems to be the perfect place to do it in this current climate.

That would be very interesting. Doesn't sound bad at all. Almost all other leagues has relegation/promotion so why not NHL!?

jhcjobpb wrote:That would be very interesting. Doesn't sound bad at all. Almost all other leagues has relegation/promotion so why not NHL!?

Well, in Europe there's no farm system really in any sport I'm aware of. Farm systems are a very North American concept. however there's this notion that the current farm systems could not co-exist with promotion/relegation, and I think that's incorrect. And there's growing interest in North American sports for promotion/relegation it seems.

And the media... oh the media would have a field day with it.

Heck, at a certain point if things continue to be problematic for the NHL they could "contract" down to 28 teams by relegating 2 extra problem markets. Those markets don't lose hockey altogether, and they get time to get their cr*p together before making another run at the NHL again.

The key would be to keep the NHL2 league smallish. If you go too far, then you really probably are in fact destroying the AHL and ECHL. But imagine the players who probably could spend time in the AHL now but don't want the stigma... for every Wade Redden or Sheldon Souray, there are numerous others who refuse to ever suit up for a game in the AHL. They now could do so in the NHL2.

Primis wrote:Well, in Europe there's no farm system really in any sport I'm aware of. Farm systems are a very North American concept.

I think there are farm systems in Europe/Russia based on a hockey "club" having multiple teams at different age levels (from developing kids to adult pros). North America used to be similar many decades ago (before the Amateur Draft)

Primis wrote: there's growing interest in North American sports for promotion/relegation it seems.

Really? I can't recall ever hearing any discussion about it


I'd be on board if the first step was reducing the NHL/top league to say 12 teams.

Apparently the New Jersey Devils are going to be sold ASAP! http://sports.ca.msn.com/nhl/news/ap-so ... being-sold

nino33 wrote:

Primis wrote: there's growing interest in North American sports for promotion/relegation it seems.

Really? I can't recall ever hearing any discussion about it

I'd be on board if the first step was reducing the NHL/top league to say 12 teams.

There's been growing interest lately, maybe last 5 years. You see more articles about it, and more people trying to apply it to other sports and explain what it'd be like. You don't see many opinions against the idea anymore. While it's still very FOREIGN to North Americans... the whole idea of collegiate amateurism has become a joke, the NFL and NBA don't even have a farm system anyways, etc... the door is opening there IMHO.

If you're a Phoenix fan would you rather risk losing your team altogether, or face relegation possibly for a couple of years maybe?


My plan was realistic first and foremost. The NHL is never going to just lop a chunk of current teams off from the get-go, the BoG's would never agree to it. They might agree to relegate 1 or 2 teams annually though if they were enticed by the expansion fees for 8 NHL2 teams, TV rights for the NHL2, and the increased value of the NHL brand and name.

Primis wrote:There's been growing interest lately, maybe last 5 years. You see more articles about it,

OK. I've not seen any articles/interest myself

Primis wrote:

jhcjobpb wrote:That would be very interesting. Doesn't sound bad at all. Almost all other leagues has relegation/promotion so why not NHL!?

Well, in Europe there's no farm system really in any sport I'm aware of. Farm systems are a very North American concept. however there's this notion that the current farm systems could not co-exist with promotion/relegation, and I think that's incorrect. And there's growing interest in North American sports for promotion/relegation it seems.

And the media... oh the media would have a field day with it.

Heck, at a certain point if things continue to be problematic for the NHL they could "contract" down to 28 teams by relegating 2 extra problem markets. Those markets don't lose hockey altogether, and they get time to get their cr*p together before making another run at the NHL again.

The key would be to keep the NHL2 league smallish. If you go too far, then you really probably are in fact destroying the AHL and ECHL. But imagine the players who probably could spend time in the AHL now but don't want the stigma... for every Wade Redden or Sheldon Souray, there are numerous others who refuse to ever suit up for a game in the AHL. They now could do so in the NHL2.

I like the AHL as it is, thanks

Off-topic a little bit but a young 16 years old player of the Acadie-Bathurst Titan passed away while practicing today. His name was Jordan Boyd, he was skating and suddenly collapsed. Looks alot like what happened to Cherepanov a couple of years ago.

So... Colorado is going to retire Adam Foote's number, I guess.

*shrug*

I wish teams wouldn't just do this for whomever. Sakic and Forsberg make perfect sense. Foote? I realize he was a key to the Avs' blueline for a number of years, but I'm bothered by the number of times he wasn't even the best d-man on his own team (Ozolinsh, Blake, Bourque, etc) and his underwhelming career numbers outside of PIM. And as I pointed out elsewhere earlier today HockeyReference lists his comparables as luminaries like Lyle Odelein an Pavel Kubina. Can you imagine either of them having their #'s retired anywhere?

Then again I root for a team that has numerous HHOF'ers they won't even retire, has one already-unofficially-retired number that was then unofficially-unretired with controversey because he's NOT a HHoFer, and Sergei Fedorov's 91 may never make the cut even though he was pretty much peerless in his era because of some (justified) bad blood. So I realize that's not every franchise's criteria and story, but... Foote seems quite the stretch.

Primis wrote:HockeyReference lists his comparables as luminaries like Lyle Odelein an Pavel Kubina

While I completely agree with the idea that to many (unworthy) NHL numbers are being retired, I don't see the HockeyReference Foote/Odelein comparison

Playing for only two teams (the first 16 with Quebec/Colorado), Foote played in the World Cup in 1996 and 2004, and in the Olympics in 1998, 2002 and 2006.
Odelin played for 8 different teams, and never played on a World Cup/Olympic team.

nino33 wrote:

Primis wrote:HockeyReference lists his comparables as luminaries like Lyle Odelein an Pavel Kubina

While I completely agree with the idea that to many (unworthy) NHL numbers are being retired, I don't see the HockeyReference Foote/Odelein comparison

Playing for only two teams (the first 16 with Quebec/Colorado), Foote played in the World Cup in 1996 and 2004, and in the Olympics in 1998, 2002 and 2006.
Odelin played for 8 different teams, and never played on a World Cup/Olympic team.

Hockey Reference's comparables are numbers-based.

It is important to note that this method does not attempt to find players who were similar in style of play. Rather, it attempts to find players whose careers were similar in terms of quality and shape. By shape, I mean things like: How many years did he play? How good were his best years compared to his worst years? Did he have a few great years and then several mediocre years, or did he have many good-but-not-great years?

So it's performance-based. It doesn't care if they were an All-Star, in the Olympics, etc. It's complicated, but generally does a very good job of comparing players IMO.

Sometimes we need to forget numbers and think about other things. Foote was an awesome veteran for the team and was captain for a while. Back in the days he was a reliable player in the Avs defense and probable their best defensive d-men. The Avs are not that old and already seen alot of great players passing through. I don't think either Foote number is that much important to retire but hey, it's not like they had much other players who are waiting to get their jersey retired there. So they can afford it IMO. It's not like the Canadiens who could have all 98 numbers retired if they wanted too.

Foote is to Colorado what Linden was to Vancouver. The rock. He was very very underrated as a player in his era by many. Yeah he was not flashy ...but if you ask Canuck players from the era and Red Wings who made life most miserable, Adam Foote would come up ALOT.

I like that offensive stars are not the only ones who are now getting this kind of recognition. Finally seeing some team's value more than just goals and assists or goaltenders.

Finally ...I get the Bourque and Blake lines but they were more related to other teams. Sandis Ozolinsh though? Lol. He was made to look good by the studs up front and one of his regular defense partner ....Adam Foote.

Heart and soul player with Cup rings..leader on and off Ice and in the community.

batdad wrote:Finally seeing some team's value more than just goals and assists or goaltenders.

This and this and this.

I get all that batdad. My personal criteria is still asking "If I retire his number now, would we someday have other players to retire that make his inclusion look kinda'... silly?" and I hesitate on that with Foote.

Question: Season 13/14
What NHL team do you think will be "better" and "worse" this year in the league? Motivate your answer.

PS: Not a dumb answer like Chicago will be worse cuz they wont win the cup...

Devils for both
cause holy Lindros what happened this summer

Brian Burke has just been named President of Hockey Operations for the Calgary Flames!