EHM The Blue Line

You know, I actually came here to post something along the lines Beukeboom did. I bought the game when it first became available for Beta/Pre-order so I could go along for the ride. Obviously after what I felt like was a VERY rough start, I walked away from it with the intentions of coming back once again closer to release, when I felt like the more finished product would be ready. . .


And I'm still not in love with it. I'm a HUGE fan of the OOTP series, I LOVE me some EHM as well. I had every intentions to give this game it's chance, but it's so clunky feeling, it's a turn off. I know it's beta, I know it needs work, but I still expected somethings to move a little more smoothly then they do. Setting line-ups is my biggest issue. In OOTP I find it easy, but at the same time I find it more rewarding, easier to maneuver and set up. Even in EHM, setting my line up gave the same feeling. So far with FHM, I feel like it's a hassle almost. Something just isn't right about it.

Overall, just to navigate through the game itself hurts, I can't really put into words on how I feel about it. "Clunky" can only say so much, when I feel there's more that needs to be said and suggested to help out anyway I can. And I would assume I'm not the only person that feels this way either.

Can we assume it's going to remain this way, or will things smooth out by release?

McSkippy454 wrote:Can we assume it's going to remain this way, or will things smooth out by release?

I'm thinking post-release. Three weeks is a really short time to smooth everything out - especially as they're now concentrating on bug fixes and stability rather than new features (and I'm guessing that improving the UI is not classed as a bug fix).

I'm extremely disappointed. I feel very little has actually been done since this spring. They had 6 months basically to shape things up, and it still looks, plays, and feels like the clunky alpha it is, and not so much even a beta that just needs bug testing.

Primis wrote:I'm extremely disappointed. I feel very little has actually been done since this spring. They had 6 months basically to shape things up, and it still looks, plays, and feels like the clunky alpha it is, and not so much even a beta that just needs bug testing.

Reading through HFBoards, the general consensus seems to be the same as your view: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showt ... p=69996469

It's really worrying because this can't help the long term prospects for the game. This close to the release date I would have hoped to see people excited for the release (just like with each release of EHM) but instead it all feels very negative.

Jeff has confirmed that there will be a version 2 released next year! This is the version I'm really looking forward to!

Beukeboom wrote:That beign said i just think they have endangered the whole project by wanting too much too early, They should have made a hockey sim that gets the basics right and has an udnelrying system that makes all the possibilities we want doable inthe future , at the moment they seem to want to do everything at once like historicla gameplay, fictional leagues etc. , complicated hisorical drafts with different leagues and specific rules and seem to forget the basic game...
... hen you look a tthe forums its all about "special rule " in WHL draft or soemthing, will the interface and game sim are total jokes still. Doesnt make me too optimistic

i couldn't agree with this more. i think if anything they've listened too closely to what was being said about nice features the game could have and lost focus of what needed to be prioritised. while the fictional leagues thing is a huge plus point for me, i know that the team weren't even considering adding this until Sebastian read some posts on the forum from people requesting it. the whole time i'm playing a fictional league i'm thinking what they should have spent their time on instead. the AI (player/team evaluation, trading), tactics, UI and the match engine spring to mind.

although i'm very optimistic for future versions (as many people have said, the potential of the game is amazing), if i wasn't an avid hockey/sim fan there's no way i would spend money on this until it becomes playable and enjoyable, and i honestly don't see that happening until version two or further...

As a long-time EHM 2007 fan who just bought this game last week, I have to say that it still has some work to go. I'm excited to see that there is finally a hockey sim that is actively being maintained and released, and plan to support it along the way. It has the potential of being a *fun* game to play, but the UI really needs to be worked on before that is possible. I just updated from 0.9.47 to 0.9.56 last night, so I'll reserve my comments until I see what has been improved. I hope incremental releases between 1.0 and 2.0 come frequently and add visible improvements, this will greatly improve the perception of this game before the reputation is too tarnished.

Beukeboom wrote:That beign said i just think they have endangered the whole project by wanting too much too early, They should have made a hockey sim that gets the basics right and has an udnelrying system that makes all the possibilities we want doable inthe future , at the moment they seem to want to do everything at once like historicla gameplay, fictional leagues etc.

To be fair, this is mostly our own fault.

Particularly around beta release, everyone was acting like this was going to be EHM 2014, or even an EHM 2007 re-make. Of course, the developers can think for themselves, but at the same time, we need to calm down and stop trying to push them in 20 different directions with our unrealistic expectations.

archibalduk wrote:Jeff has confirmed that there will be a version 2 released next year! This is the version I'm really looking forward to!

I won't be a part of it. I won't pay twice for what should have been done the first time. And I hope OOTP realizes that will be the reaction of a lot of users.

B. Stinson wrote:To be fair, this is mostly our own fault.

Particularly around release, everyone was acting like this was going to be EHM 2014, or even an EHM 2007 re-make. Of course, the developers can think for themselves, but at the same time, we need to calm down and stop trying to push them in 20 different directions with our unrealistic expectations.

Some probably were.

However, this isn't even equivalent to the original NHL EHM. Shoot, I could make a case that it's not equivalent to freeware EHM. It's so raw and lacking in playability. Those are pretty damning things to say about a game that's claiming to be weeks away from final release, even of a first version.

If they're expecting to get 2 or 3 versions to finally get a decent product out there, they're sorely mistaken.

Primis wrote:

archibalduk wrote:Jeff has confirmed that there will be a version 2 released next year! This is the version I'm really looking forward to!

I won't be a part of it. I won't pay twice for what should have been done the first time. And I hope OOTP realizes that will be the reaction of a lot of users.

I think it will be more of an update than just two different games that you need to pay.

I would hope its an update as opposed to a buy again game. As a long time player of EHM I was super excited to see a fresh face. FHM thus far while still gives me the bare basics of a sim hockey game like others have said is difficult to immerse ones self into.

philou21 wrote:I think it will be more of an update than just two different games that you need to pay.

Actually I suspect it'll be a new version - i.e. FHM 15 - and you'll have to pay...

I'm gonna be honest then and say it's completely ridiculous. They just shoot themselves in the foot with that.

philou21 wrote:I think it will be more of an update than just two different games that you need to pay.

archibalduk wrote:Actually I suspect it'll be a new version - i.e. FHM 15 - and you'll have to pay...

philou21 wrote:I'm gonna be honest then and say it's completely ridiculous. They just shoot themselves in the foot with that.

Just wondering...when EHM went from EHM (2004) to EHM05 (2005) to EHM07 (2006) did you think that was completely ridiculous too?

From what I've heard(because I only know EHM07) it was looking more complete in terms of playable abilities when it came out. I have no doubts that FHM will come up good someday but the way I feel about what Archi posted is that they've put some expections and will not meet them on release date. If the 14 version is staying unplayable like some people said here than it's not worth paying for it to simply having a playable version with the 15.

If the game was enjoyable enough for having fun I wouldn't mind. But for now it just sounds weird to me. Especially if they are planning an annual release, which I really hate. Some people here are seeing how boring EA Sports NHL is with it's annual release. Few minors updates with roster upgrades for a full price. We can skip 4 years before buying one to see enough changes. FHM in the first 2-3 years will have a tons of change because they will adapt, having new ideas, new concepts etc...but after that I hope they will skip 1 or 2 years between their games.

Maybe I got my expections too high like a couple of people here but from what I've read here, the changes the game need to be playable could be done by upgrades to have the full version complete instead of making people playing some kind of beta for one year at 40$ and having a real good product in 2014.

I have not played FHM is some 3 months and also have not gone to the OOTP forums. I might download the release version but by the tone of the comments so far I may not either. Maybe FHM 2014,15 or 16...... maybe.

nino33 wrote:

philou21 wrote:I think it will be more of an update than just two different games that you need to pay.

archibalduk wrote:Actually I suspect it'll be a new version - i.e. FHM 15 - and you'll have to pay...

philou21 wrote:I'm gonna be honest then and say it's completely ridiculous. They just shoot themselves in the foot with that.

Just wondering...when EHM went from EHM (2004) to EHM05 (2005) to EHM07 (2006) did you think that was completely ridiculous too?

The difference between a yearly release, like the NHL series is that people didnt buy an NHL game thinking it was a beta and was going to get way better, then on top of that being forced to buy the "good and fixed" version a year later

Animal31 wrote:The difference between a yearly release, like the NHL series is that people didnt buy an NHL game thinking it was a beta and was going to get way better, then on top of that being forced to buy the "good and fixed" version a year later

For me I'm totally comfortable thinking the game will not be playable at release, but I'm still trying to be hopeful that just what's there now will be actually working before year end; there's more in the first FHM game than EHM ever dreamed of having (modern, historical and fantasy modes), so there is seemingly good value IF it works.....but the "more" may be the problem too if there's to many bugs/issues to fix before the developers return their attention to baseball

"if it works" is the problem
if it doesnt, then I just spent money on a buggy demo in which they expect me to buy AGAIN when the it comes out for "realsies"

philou21 wrote:the changes the game need to be playable could be done by upgrades to have the full version complete instead of making people playing some kind of beta for one year at 40$ and having a real good product in 2014.

I have a great deal of respect for the developers; they're genuinely nice people and really do care about the game. I really don't want to discourage anybody from purchasing the game. In fact I encourage everybody to purchase the game if only to help secure a second version (because in the long run I hope FHM will surpass EHM 07). That said, it does feel like what Philou says above. With all of the gaps and the continued beta feel, it doesn't really seem to have the value for money like a new EHM release had (or the first EHM release). I suppose this is the price of trying to satisfy all of the different types of user/customer - the modern hockey fans, the historical replay fans and the fictional world fans.

I think the post-release is going to be decisive. There's every possibility that many of the gaps could be fixed with a couple of patches. A lot of what we've been discussing (i.e. improved AI, better designed UI, deeper tactics, etc) probably isn't all that complicated for the devs to implement - certainly when compared to things like adding the WHA to the game, which they've already achieved. If they do address these things then we'll suddenly have one hell of a game; and this would leave them to continue adding the more ambitious features (e.g. extended historic mode, fictional mode, international teams, etc) on top of a more solid foundation.

Since the beginning I've been telling to people who were too excited and impatient to calm down and let the devs do their job so the game could be polished for release. I'm still believing that but I think the devs could've maybe delayed the game for a couple of weeks just to be sure. Now I should say to the devs to calm down and take their time! I really hope they don't put themselves too much pressure by seeing people getting impatient over the slow improvements though.

archibalduk wrote: A lot of what we've been discussing (i.e. improved AI, better designed UI, deeper tactics, etc) probably isn't all that complicated for the devs to implement - certainly when compared to things like adding the WHA to the game, which they've already achieved

Really? I don't know anything about game development, but I would think tactics and AI would be some of the most complicated things to program/add (given the significant range of options and the large number of factors interacting that are required).....I would think "AI" (including player AI/tactics) would also require the most testing, while testing the WHA would be much easier (it either shows up/unfolds as it should/folds or it doesn't); I'd think testing tactics would have to be tested in different leagues (close to 20 different modern leagues so far) with different player types/templates to ensure they do what they're supposed to and don't do anything unforeseen, and AI would be the same way (again requiring significant testing in multiple leagues) - to be honest this spring I thought by now this would be where the beta was at, with the summer months full of users providing the significant testing needed

If someone would give me a job, I would know a thing or two about game development, at least enough to get myself into FHM development

B. Stinson wrote:
To be fair, this is mostly our own fault.

Particularly around beta release, everyone was acting like this was going to be EHM 2014, or even an EHM 2007 re-make. Of course, the developers can think for themselves, but at the same time, we need to calm down and stop trying to push them in 20 different directions with our unrealistic expectations.

I can't agree with this at all.

For 1) They're the pros. They're the business. They should have had some idea what they could accomplish from the outset.
For 2) It's not unrealistic for gamers to expect PROGRESS in game making. EHM 2007 is 6 years old now. In six years, a gaming company with a ton of history in sports sims can't best a six year old game? There's no excuse for that, in my opinion.

I bought the game. I haven't made any demands. I'd LIKE online league capabilities. I'd LIKE a two-D engine. I'd LIKE a realistic NHL draft. But the only things i DEMAND are a) bit of fun for the money I spent and b) hope that it will improve in the future.

And as of this moment, they don't meet A and unless they meet it, I don't have confidence they'll be around long enough to do B.