EHM The Blue Line

I agree with everything Minty said also. What would be the point in giving up the community when everyone has worked so hard to get it where it is today. I for one will not be leaving TBL not now, not ever. The only lime I will league TBL will be if they decided to close the site down, Even then it would still be a shame to see it go and I would probably try and take over to keep it running. I however doubt they will close down, so really all we need to do is just think like we did before w knew this news that we love playing EHM and what a great community this is. As none of this will change just because EHM is no more. You never know people might think, oh no and start buying the game then they might be able to afford to keep going.

I first found out about EHM in 2005 when I went down to my Local game store. I saw they had this game created by SI for £10.00, it turned out to be £5 however . I bought this on the fact I liked FM from the same company. I am glad I did. As I was partial to Hockey anyway but since playing EHM I have been checking scores and gettign right into it. I only got the Original game last year, so I doubt they would stop selling it because at the end of the day who knows, IF they stopped selling it what would happen if new comers to Ice Hockey wanted to play EHM and give it a go? They wouldn't be able to so hence the reason i can't see them stopping. Hopefully they will get more sales now than ever.

I would just like to say thankyou to SI and the team for making such a great game, Also everyone at TBL, If it was not for Minty I wouldnever of found my way here, well joining up anyway, as I used to look around but never registerd till Minty helped me out. A big thankyou to the whole commuity aswell as without you this would never have been a sucess like it is today.

Thundercleese wrote:Shadd: Thanks for being mature about getting such an over-the-top response. Some people might just say "well you smell like bacon grease" or something without reading the entire thing. See what EHM did? Bringing together intelligent, well-adjusted, open-minded people?

Like I said, this is what I go to school for, so I kinda like writing about it and I think it's an issue that's under the surface but should be given more attention. Thank everyone at TBL for allowing a forum for this kind of discussion. I wish it could come under more positive circumstances.

For the record, you do smell like bacon grease.

Sure, I'm against piracy, but I can't get too worked up about it if it means that by doing her naff music Mariah Carey only nets 4 million bucks a year instead of five or six. But if it means that someone less well known who does stuff I like has to take up a 'real' job or even quits altogether, I get livid. In computer game terms, I know piracy cuts into EA's bottom line. That's not the part that bothers me, since even if they got twice the profits, I don't really see them doing anything that interests me in a big way. It's the smaller developers whose fate worries me. I give SI a lot of credit for their willingness to take the risk of hiring Riz and others to work on EHM, even though they had to know that EHM would never be the kind of worldwide success story FM is. The fact that it lost them money must make them less willing to take such chances in the future.

So, to everyone who pirated EHM: thank you for making it a little less likely that a developer with real resources will take on experimental titles in the future. You've done your part in making the world a little more bland by hurting the rare part of the gaming industry that is concerned with novelty and perhaps even innovation in addition to their tried and true cash cows. Give yourself a pat in the back and go skate on thin ice somewhere. Preferably in full goalie gear. And real men do it where the water is both deep and cold. Feh.

Maybe the guys who make Championship Manager might make a hockey manager some day.

Yeah, maybe. But since Eidos and SI "separated" the Championship Manager games has just collapsed in quality. According to me the best game was the game 01/02.

BTW, my avatar says; "I'm with you... always" add TBL to it and you have "I'm with you TBL ... always"

The post-SI era Championship Managers are, unfortunately, rubbish. SI is the premier developer of sports management games; Football Manager isn't the only show in town (like EHM is in its field), but in terms of realism and depth it's so far above anything else that it might just as well be.

Championship Manager was only absolutely brilliant when SI were in charge. With Eidos, it has taken a nose-dive with them basically trying to copy what SI does with FM but doing it badly. If EHM went to Eidos it would be a disaster. In fact, it would just never be the same again if it were to go anywhere else. Who else other than SI actually pay any interest in what the fans want.

Anyway, I can't imagine the rights to EHM ever being sold. It's not a big brand name like Championship Manager was and so who would want to buy the rights to EHM? A company that wants to make a hockey management sim may as well start a new one from scratch.

Pardon me for my ignorance but can anyone tell me why piracy was such a problem in this years version as opposed to others? Is it just more were done or was it easier to do with this version because of the download? Thanks.

Pardon me for my ignorance but can anyone tell me why piracy was such a problem in this years version as opposed to others? Is it just more were done or was it easier to do with this version because of the download? Thanks.

My opinion on this matter is that it was the digital download that was the breeding ground for the apparent increase in piracy. The reason why, is because stealing this years version was a matter of cracking the "lock" between the demo version and the full version since they were both in the same package... and only separated by that lock. To add to that, I came across a site a little while ago that was dedicated to beating the eLicense security, which according to that site, is very easy to do(they give a step by step guide on how to do it)... and EHM 2007 was protected by eLicense.

Now, on the other hand, the previous two versions were physical copies of the game on a CD-ROM. This meant that wide-spread theft of the product had to start with wide-spread purchases of the game. Theft could still take place, but purchases had to take place first. Then, the built-in protection on the CD had to be beaten as well.

So, to summarize, the most recent EHM was far more convenient to steal since it was a full game only locked by an easy-to-beat "lock." But the first two games had to sell at least some games, and get around a little more security, before it could be stolen.

But they still had digital download version of the two earlier versions. Was e-license that easy to crack compared to Softwrap and... whoever the other was? I got the Softwrap digital download version of the first EHM, then ordered the CD version from a game importer on the next one. Of course, this last time we all had to do the E-License digital download. I'm just wondering if there really was that much of a difference since they were all available via legal download.

That is a good point, bruins, which I actually forgot about. But me forgetting actually makes me think that's what prevented it from being as bad - not many people knew much about those DD versions, since the boxed copy was naturally the primary version. Plus, I believe the DD for the others was a North American thing only, which makes it's presence that much smaller.

That, or I guess we simply could have had a huge surge in lazy morans( ) who would rather steal something than buy it, and this version of EHM was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

B. Stinson wrote:That, or I guess we simply could have had a huge surge in lazy morans( ) who would rather steal something than buy it, and this version of EHM was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think that was it really. In this case it was probably hurt bith by it's own popularity and having the SI name on it so people were willing to give the cracked version a download and of course the game is pretty impressive so instead of word of mouth leading to people telling people to pick up the game it led to mass illegal downloads instead Morans.

Lazy irritating morans, how many laws there's about this matter nothing seems to stop them. They have no heart for the developers or the fans of that developer. Almost all the pirates just want to show their frineds how good they are.

The pirate: "Look what I got"
The friend: "Wow, the new EHM version, the full version. How did you get it, don't you have to pay for it?"
P: "No! It's easy, just crack the "lock" of the game and then you have the full version."
F: "Wow, can you send me copy?"
P: "Yeah, sure. And share to all your friends and then we have destroyed a wonderful game for the developers."
Me: "Lazy morans!!!!!"

The decision to halt development of EHM wasn't based solely on the piracy of EHM 2007. In fact, it seems that every single version was pirated. From what the SI Games people have said in the SI EHM Forum, EHM 2004 was cracked even before it hit the shelves; as was EHM 2005. The Try & Buy EHM 2005 wasn't cracked because there was a CD version which was easier to crack. Apparently the cracking of EHM 2004 and 2005, along with the distribution issues they had in those two years, had a big negative effect on EHM development. Graeme estimated that there were at least five times more pirate downloads of EHM 2005 than the number of legal copies of EHM 2005 sold.

It seems that it was a cumulative effect. Miles Jacobson said that all three versions of EHM lost money overall. Even EHM 2004 (the best-selling of the three versions) didn't make a profit. EHM 2007 lost so much money on top of the losses of EHM 2004 and 2005 to give a fourth version absolutely no chance of recouping their losses.

Another fact: The amount of money spent per unit of EHM was much greater than the cost per unit of making FM. It just goes to show how hard these guys tried to make EHM successful.

archibalduk wrote:Graeme estimated that there were at least five times more pirate downloads of EHM 2005 than the number of legal copies of EHM 2005 sold.

That really is a shame. I don't have as much sympathy for the bigger developers that make millions off of their games. Sure, it's wrong for people to steal from them but they still make their money. It's different with the little guys though. These small titles don't have a chance when people start pirating them. I hope these pirates are happy when the only gaming choices are First Person Shooters, RTS, and Everquest clones. We had a game that was different and it didn't even stand a chance because of these fools.

I know the folks at PC Gamer were huge fans of the EHM series. I wonder if a write in campaign to them will help the game in any way? Maybe we can get the word out and do some good?

How much do they lose on FM a year?

You know, I don't really have anything to add to this topic, but I think the use of "morans" is fantastic. I'm a huge Cubs fan, and it's a running-joke on a Cubs related board I go to about "morans" because the guy in that pic is wearing a Cardinals shirt.

So, use of the word morans is encouraged from me

Stillblind wrote:How much do they lose on FM a year?

I don't think they make a loss with FM. I imagine they make a fairly large profit; otherwise they would have abandoned FM too.

vh2k6 wrote:So, use of the word morans is encouraged from me

You may have noticed I'm from Chicago, and a Cubs fan

But before I have to ban myself for being off topic... it really is tough that the "little guy" is again the one that gets screwed in the whole thing; it was fun fighting for the minority working testing on a hockey game because like hockey itself, those who "got" EHM loved it and that was great to see. If this was a movie of tvshow the game would make a triumphant comeback and the little guy would finally make it big and we'd all live happily ever after. Unfortunately it's real life and even worse real life business and we're just lucky to have had the game in development as long as it was actually.

I think SI should now try to pull off some of Cartman's financial genius. Since the game isn't in production anymore, they can start major advertising for EHM. - The masses who are reached will be intrigued by the game, but won't have a game to buy. After a while the prospect of a brand new hockey management sim will be burning inside of them so much, that when SI suddenly releases a hard copy of the new EHM, trillions of people will flock to the stores to get their hands on the game that they have been dying to play for so long. EHM will gain Halo- or GTA-like demand... overnight. People would be so excited to finally get the game, that they wouldn't even be thinking about stealing it.

Yeah, you've definitely been watching too much South Park. LOL!

archibalduk wrote:

Stillblind wrote:How much do they lose on FM a year?

I don't think they make a loss with FM. I imagine they make a fairly large profit; otherwise they would have abandoned FM too.

I'm sure they lose a good chunk of FM-related income to piracy as well. However, the market for a soccer management sim (or the soccer management sim) is so enormous that they should make a tidy profit with it anyway.

I suppose comparing the effect of piracy on FM and EHM is kind of like comparing its effect on Mariah Carey and Joe & Bob's Garage Band. Let's say they both lose 50% of their royalty income because of piracy; that means that Mariah Carey gets an annual income of $4 million instead of $8 million, which probably doesn't make much of a difference in her daily life. For members of JBGB, the loss of 50% might mean that instead of making music, they'll have to flip burgers for a living.

:blue: Well... I should put in my two cents now. To those of you who have contributed in any way to the game, and to those of you who have BOUGHT and played the game, thank you! This has been a few good years for me, and I've enjoyed the game thuroughly.

Now to those of you who PIRATED the game... I'm sure we all agree, it's not right to steal.

Now for the future... I hope someday, somewhere, someone will pick up the torch and light it again. This game was so enjoyable, I feel a little empty because of this news.

Well, that's all. Vlad signing off, see you soon.

I got my copy of the game today. Bought it here http://www.hockeyallsvenskan.se/webbshop/

Why are they showing a boxed copy? I thought the game was only available via digital download? I'm a little suspicious that it could be a pirated copy.