EHM The Blue Line

bruins72 wrote:Yeah, you could probably go with just Butterfly, Stand-up, and Hybrid. I think an unorthodox goalie would fit into the Hybrid category.

Standup
+Angles
+Positioning
+Balance
+Blocker High
+Glove High
-Agility
-Shot Recovery
-Five Hole

Butterfly
+Agilty
+Shot Recovery (is this how quickly they recover their stance after blocking a shot?)
+Five Hole
+Glove Low
+Stick Low
-Blocker High
-Positioning
-???

Hybrid
+Agility
+Reflexes
+Shot Recovery
+???
-???
-???
-???

Thanks, I believe you have the shot recovery attribute right. I will post my suggestions for the goalies soon then we can compare them.

Calv wrote:When creating regens, I would use a probability distribution to calculate the new PA. It's quite easy to generate Gaussian numbers in C (or any other language, as long as you have a random number generator).

All you would have to do is say the mean is the old guys PA and set the standard deviation to (say) 2% of his PA. So if a player retired with PA of 170, then a distribution of PA's would be something like this: http://yfrog.com/16distsp

I think doing it this way is more rigorous than just saying PA can be within +-10% for example.

I will dig more into this, thanks.

I must say it is hard to think of +'s and -'s for goalies, will focus on skaters for now.

Btw, if you look at the hidden attributes most of the tendencies only apply to skaters, are there goalie tendencies we can add? A goalie's tendency to leave the net and play the puck?

dabo wrote:I must say it is hard to think of +'s and -'s for goalies, will focus on skaters for now.

Btw, if you look at the hidden attributes most of the tendencies only apply to skaters, are there goalie tendencies we can add? A goalie's tendency to leave the net and play the puck?

This sample scouting chart of goalie Billy Sauer has a lot of attributes listed:
http://www.thehockeyguild.com/thegoalie ... illy01.pdf

dabo wrote:I must say it is hard to think of +'s and -'s for goalies, will focus on skaters for now.

Btw, if you look at the hidden attributes most of the tendencies only apply to skaters, are there goalie tendencies we can add? A goalie's tendency to leave the net and play the puck?

Well, in my scouting job I always pay attention to how often a goalie challenges the shooter, which is besides one of the biggest differences between North American and European goalies (Russian in particular - Varlamov and Bobrovsky are such good goalies because they challenge a lot, there are many Russian good goalies, but their technique and challenge abilities aren't on par with their athletic potential).

Ogilthorpe wrote:

dabo wrote:I must say it is hard to think of +'s and -'s for goalies, will focus on skaters for now.

Btw, if you look at the hidden attributes most of the tendencies only apply to skaters, are there goalie tendencies we can add? A goalie's tendency to leave the net and play the puck?

This sample scouting chart of goalie Billy Sauer has a lot of attributes listed:
http://www.thehockeyguild.com/thegoalie ... illy01.pdf

you'd think a goalies "emotions" as they put it would be weighted much more then 10% - that is what makes a number 1 goalie in the NHL. Alot of skilled goalies in the world but not all can handle the pressure day in and day out.

I think that "composure" attribute would be vital to goalies.

In my professional opinion...the only attribute that a goalie needs is:

Stops pucks.

How about these for Goalies:

Goalies (hidden)

Positioning
Balance
Puck play
Mobility
Lateral Speed
Focus
Composure
Work Ethic
Injury proneness
Natural fitness
Consistency
Important games
Adaptability
Ambition
Loyalty
Pressure
Professionalism
Temperament


Goalkeeper (visible)

Technical

Angles
Blocker high
Blocker low
Breakaways
Five hole
Glove high
Glove low
Passing
Poke checking
Rebound control
Reflexes
Shot recovery

Ok I think I have something to work with here. Let's focus on the national differences. For example Canadian and American goalies are more likely to be good stick handlers, russians in general seem reluctant to leave russia etc. Obviously this is not true in all cases but more common than not.

What other differences are there? Let's only focus on the bigger hockey countries. Don't forgot to refer to the attributes used in the game.

How about North American players in general being more physical?

Yes, and more likely to drop the gloves.

dabo wrote:Ok I think I have something to work with here. Let's focus on the national differences. For example Canadian and American goalies are more likely to be good stick handlers, russians in general seem reluctant to leave russia etc. Obviously this is not true in all cases but more common than not.

What other differences are there? Let's only focus on the bigger hockey countries. Don't forgot to refer to the attributes used in the game.

Slovakians being more injury prone? Not sure how significant that is, but it seems a lot of Slovakians are extra injury prone for some reason.

Don't forget a lot of Russians, and maybe even Swedes, excel in dangling/stickhandling, because of the open ice they're used to playing on.

What about the WHL producing more physical players? I wouldn't say the whole North America is known for being more physical. There are a lot of finesse players too. And then you've got the US which is a mix.

Is there any way to have a small percentage, say 5-10%, random that will increase a prospect's potential after a season's update? And to balance it out, decrease another prospect's potential by the same amount? Maybe this could be done every offseason, a prospect's potential has a % to increase or decrease?

The reason I ask is because it happens all the time. A 1st rounder is touted all throughout his teens and just doesn't make it for whatever reason, whereas a later rounder all of the sudden becomes a top prospect. I am no programmer and I am not very good with numbers but is there any way to implement a random modifier that would allow for more diamond-in-the-rough prospects?

In other words, is there any way to make the draft more fun than just the first few rounds. I am aware of the real life percentages for the first two rounds but it seems that in EHM, it is very rare to find a 1st liner or a starting goaltender after the 6th round. I have done it maybe three times...maybe I'm the only one that can't find them/develop them but it seems that once the regens start going (which are way too easy to spot as has already been mentioned), there is no excitement. I think it would be cool to have a 5-7 rounder all of the sudden become a much better prospect.

A player's potential ability will not be constant, it will depend on what happens during a player's career.

There are plans to have late bloomers in the game and to make the draft more interesting outside the first 2-3 rounds.

dabo wrote:A player's potential ability will not be constant, it will depend on what happens during a player's career.

There are plans to have late bloomers in the game and to make the draft more interesting outside the first 2-3 rounds.

superstars drafted in the later (4-7) rounds should be very rare, but nhl regulars should be more likely

also maybe more undrafted players making it into depth roles in the nhl

bruins72 wrote:What about the WHL producing more physical players? I wouldn't say the whole North America is known for being more physical. There are a lot of finesse players too. And then you've got the US which is a mix.

California players seem to be very good skaters and more offense then most american players, maybe quebec should produce more offensive minded players and better goalies?

Javs wrote:

bruins72 wrote:What about the WHL producing more physical players? I wouldn't say the whole North America is known for being more physical. There are a lot of finesse players too. And then you've got the US which is a mix.

California players seem to be very good skaters and more offense then most american players, maybe quebec should produce more offensive minded players and better goalies?

...and you base that on the past 4-6 players drafted within the past two years of the draft ?

My initial plan was to setup one template for each country. But I am starting to think we need to divide Canada and USA into west, central and east (doubt division by state is necessary). Looking at a big picture, not only a few players who happen to stand out in a region, do you think this is necessary or overkill?

Overkill. I don't really think the patterns are strong enough to justify regional templates.

I like the idea of regional templates. Also, if you split the US into West, Central, and East, you could possibly make it so that there are less players created in the West. Most US born hockey players come from the Central (which we call the Mid-west for some reason) and Eastern portions of the country.

Danny wrote:Overkill. I don't really think the patterns are strong enough to justify regional templates.

I feel that too sometimes but reading what some of you have written before it seems like all Canada (and USA) is not the same.

West : physical players
Central : No idea, good overall players?
East : Good goalies, offensive players?

Remember all players won't use the template, for example, I assume not all western canadian players are physical. Perhaps template is a bad choice of word. Maybe instead of using templates for regions we could decide on the likelihood of certain player types coming out of the west, central or east? For example:

Western Canada:
Forwards
Power forward = 50%
Grinder = 20%
Enforcer = 10%
Sniper = 10%
...

Defensemen
Defensive = 50%
Offensive = 20%
...

Central Canada:
Forwards
Sniper = 25%
Playmaker = 25%
Power Forward = 10%
...

Defensemen
Offensive = 30%
Defensive = 20%
...

Someone with knowledge could estimate these probabilities.

bruins72 wrote:I like the idea of regional templates. Also, if you split the US into West, Central, and East, you could possibly make it so that there are less players created in the West. Most US born hockey players come from the Central (which we call the Mid-west for some reason) and Eastern portions of the country.

I guess the region and nation a new player is born will be inherited from a retired player. So if a player born in New York, New York retires the new one could be born in Miami, Florida. Some players will not inherit anything.

Btw, which states/provinces in USA/Canada are considered west, central and east? are there any defined borders? else we can just decide on something together. After all, some are obvious, some are not.

The design I am working on atm would allow us to easily tweak how players are created and for example add regions to other countries if ever needed. So if things are not perfect from day 1, don't worry.

dabo wrote:

bruins72 wrote:I like the idea of regional templates. Also, if you split the US into West, Central, and East, you could possibly make it so that there are less players created in the West. Most US born hockey players come from the Central (which we call the Mid-west for some reason) and Eastern portions of the country.

I guess the region and nation a new player is born will be inherited from a retired player. So if a player born in New York, New York retires the new one could be born in Miami, Florida. Some players will not inherit anything.

Btw, which states/provinces in USA/Canada are considered west, central and east? are there any defined borders? else we can just decide on something together. After all, some are obvious, some are not.

The design I am working on atm would allow us to easily tweak how players are created and for example add regions to other countries if ever needed. So if things are not perfect from day 1, don't worry.

This makes sense. I would separate West, Central, and East the same way the CHL designates who plays in the WHL, OHL, and QMJHL. They split Canada 3 ways and they also designate which US States feed into those leagues as well. Somebody with a little more knowledge of the CHL should be able to tell you the breakdown.

Yeah it's all true, point was, if you wanna draft a physical player you just draft him, whether his birthplace is Vancouver or Montreal doesn't really matter, it has no effect on the game itself, which is why I was thinking that's rather something to implement later on and focus on gameplay-related things now

Well, everything discussed here will not be implemented in the first iteration, I am just trying to keep a discussion going so that I know what you want when the time comes to go back and look at things. That goes for all topics.

Anyway, at least I now know that some of you think it is a good idea to implement regional "templates" whenever that time comes.