EHM The Blue Line

Antoine Vermette got a brain cramp yesterday! 10 games suspension for slashing the referee.

philou21 wrote:Antoine Vermette got a brain cramp yesterday! 10 games suspension for slashing the referee.

Vermette deserves every game!



I hope they give Nyquist even more vicious, I think the worst stickwork I've ever seen in 40+ years of watching hockey

The NHL seems to care more about their referees than their players. I'm not excusing Vermette at all but if that gets him 10 games I don't see why most headshots are 3-4 games at best. Nyquist should get a 20 games for that but it will never happen.

philou21 wrote:The NHL seems to care more about their referees than their players. I'm not excusing Vermette at all but if that gets him 10 games I don't see why most headshots are 3-4 games at best. Nyquist should get a 20 games for that but it will never happen.

To be honest for me most headshots far well below touching a referee or stickwork like a spear to the face; almost all/all checks to the head are "hockey plays" (or they were for close to 100 years), but touching the ref and/or stickwork like Nyquist's has never been OK in hockey and is in no way a hockey play


I'm tired of all the "headshot" discussion myself
They're professional athletes, not kids/recreational players...they don't make racecar drivers drive regular speed limits, or baseball players pitch underhand, etc...and mostly, I feel that head shots are like hate speech, if something's done wrong/illegal you shouldn't need another new category to describe it (not trying to get political in any way!)

Players now put themselves in position to get hurt way more than players try to give someone a headshot (or even do so accidently); players put themselves in positions to get hurt multiple times every game - on the HFBoards I saw posters noting that players have a right to turn their back to opponents near the boards to "make a play" and it was the obligation of the opponent not to hit them!

The recent hit by Brendan Smith on Josh Anderson is an example of an absolutely OK hit to me (shoulder check, elbow down and tucked in), but yet it gets attention as a "head shot" and Smith is apparently at fault for the split second play https://twitter.com/buckeyesthockey/sta ... 7444305920


Hockey is boring because of the lack of contact IMO (and the oversized goalies)
Putting the onus on the hitter was a horrible decision by the NHL (apparently that's the case, or so I've been told), and it's why the game's like more ringette to me than hockey (and the years of TV ratings dropping have a lot to do with the lack of hitting IMO)


If head shots are the concern along with checking from behind, here's my proposed solution

• defensemen "jam on the breaks" in cases like Smith's hit on Anderson, and the refs immediately blow the whistle and they have a center ice face-off
• as soon as a player puts himself in a position to get hit from behind near the boards, the refs blow the whistle and a face-off is held in that player's defensive zone

I think the first idea would help a bit (as player's would become more aware of putting themselves in positions were they can be "rocked with a big hit" and avoid them so as to avoid losing the opportunity to be on the rush). The second idea I seriously think would pretty much remove all checking from behind from the game! because players would stop turning their back to opponents (putting themselves in a very dangerous position) with the mentality of "you can't hit me" (yes, I think almost all/all checks from behind are because the player with the puck purposely puts himself in a position to be hit like that because he essentially thinks he's playing ringette/basketball instead of hockey)

Players used to be way more aware of their surroundings/who was on the ice, and to smart to put themselves in dangerous positions...not anymore (and the rules nowadays encourage them not to be aware/not to learn)

How could Vermette even think of slashing the referee? Seems crazy to me, I like philou's way of describing it as a ''brain cramp''

I think everyone here know your views about hockey Nino. No need to repeat them in each post. You're starting to replace Batdad here.

philou21 wrote:I think everyone here know your views about hockey Nino. No need to repeat them in each post. You're starting to replace Batdad here.

I'm not attacking other posters! And I don't repeat them in each post most of my posts are on testing results/game functionality/database editing

nino33 wrote:I hope they give Nyquist even more vicious, I think the worst stickwork I've ever seen in 40+ years of watching hockey

Depends on your definition of stickwork, because what Dale Hunter did to Pierre Turgeon is still probably the worst thing I've ever seen in NHL hockey. That includes Simon, McSorely, etc... if Hunter did that today, I'm not so sure he'd ever be allowed to play an NHL game again.

Primis wrote:

nino33 wrote:I hope they give Nyquist even more vicious, I think the worst stickwork I've ever seen in 40+ years of watching hockey

Depends on your definition of stickwork, because what Dale Hunter did to Pierre Turgeon is still probably the worst thing I've ever seen in NHL hockey. That includes Simon, McSorely, etc... if Hunter did that today, I'm not so sure he'd ever be allowed to play an NHL game again.

We'll have to agree to disagree, and that's OK to do!
As bad as what Hunter did was, I still think spearing someone in the face is worse

nino33 wrote:

Primis wrote:

nino33 wrote:I hope they give Nyquist even more vicious, I think the worst stickwork I've ever seen in 40+ years of watching hockey

Depends on your definition of stickwork, because what Dale Hunter did to Pierre Turgeon is still probably the worst thing I've ever seen in NHL hockey. That includes Simon, McSorely, etc... if Hunter did that today, I'm not so sure he'd ever be allowed to play an NHL game again.

We'll have to agree to disagree, and that's OK to do!
As bad as what Hunter did was, I still think spearing someone in the face is worse

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with whatever Nyquist gets. Not trying to downplay it in that regard. He at least has the slightest, slimmest margin of claiming accident or brain fart or something, especially given his prior record. Hunter straight up charged across the ice to cross-check a guy in the face after he scored a goal. I mean, he had more than a split second to decide "Wait, this is a BAD idea"... and did it anyways. It's the instances where it ventures into "psychopath" territory I think are the worst.

There's a split-second "I probably shouldn't have punched you when you stuck your finger in my ear" moment I guess... and then a "No your honor I swear, when I rammed the police car, hurled insults at the officers, and then took a baseball bat to it, and then tried to tombstone one of the officers, it was all an accident" moment.

He gets six games and Vermette got 10. Like I said....

Primis wrote:Hunter straight up charged across the ice to cross-check a guy in the face after he scored a goal. I mean, he had more than a split second to decide "Wait, this is a BAD idea"... and did it anyways. It's the instances where it ventures into "psychopath" territory I think are the worst.

I didn't think he crosschecked him in the face, I thought it was in the back...looked it up on youtube and definitely not the back! but it also didn't look like a crosscheck, or to the face (seemed to be a very hard shove into the shoulder to an unsuspecting/near-the-boards Turgeon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZnqKzsrqVA

I agree with you about he had a chance to think about it! and did it anyhow...

nino33 wrote:I hope they give Nyquist even more vicious, I think the worst stickwork I've ever seen in 40+ years of watching hockey

Really!?!

I remember them all except the Dave Brown '87 one.

Edgars wrote:

nino33 wrote:I hope they give Nyquist even more vicious, I think the worst stickwork I've ever seen in 40+ years of watching hockey

Really!?!

Yes

They're all bad of course/obviously (and for anyone picking a worst it's going to be "subjective"); maybe it being so current intensifies my feelings, and maybe it's just that it was a spear to the face (a big factor), and maybe more recent ones had less impact on me because I haven't been following hockey that closely...and for sure it doesn't actually ultimately matter which I think/feel was worst, and they all deserved more punishment then they got

CJ wrote:I remember them all except the Dave Brown '87 one.

HaHa I remember the Brown one best of the ones they showed (again, by the early/mid 90s I'd lost interest and have never followed hockey as closely as I first did since)

I'm surprised Dino Ciccarelli's wasn't mentioned

This is most definitely my favourite Mike Ilitch story, by far http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/news/re ... ailsignout

nino33 wrote:This is most definitely my favourite Mike Ilitch story, by far http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/news/re ... ailsignout

Illitch has taken so much flak for wanting to build the new arena district, almost all of it from outside of the area by people who have no idea who he was or what he actually did, or what the situation in Detroit actually is. The man did a *lot*, and some of it we'll probably never hear about, probably some other "little" things like the Rosa Parks anecdote. Some of them locally are still starting to trickle out...

Some years ago, going into a new baseball season General Motors informed Illitch that they wouldn't be doing a corporate sponsorship for the fountain at Comerica Park like they had in previous seasons. Illitch asked them why, and they said "Well, you've seen the news. Most of the auto industry is in official bankruptcy... we legally can't". And Ilitch decided that GM was too important to Detroit to just shove aside, and so even though his advisors were against it, he told them they could have the sponsorship for free until their bankruptcy was resolved and they were in a position to sponsor it for real again. He could have chased some dollars from another sponsor for it, but he didn't.

If you go to Detroit right now and see areas that have been renovated and rebuilt, there are only 2 men who have basically done it all with their money: Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert (who owns Quicken Loans, based in Detroit, and is from there, and to be honest deserves a lot more credit as well) has actually done a lot (especially in the residential areas)... and Mike Illitch. Yes, he took some DDA money for the arena district, but the majority of the funding still came out of his pockets. There was something like $250 million from a special development fund... but the project's total cost now heading towards the $1.2 billion range. That means Illitch is funding nearly $1 billion himself. $600m-some is the new arena, the other $600m-ish is new retail, housing, hotel, and office spaces nearby. That's an *enormous* investment into a city like Detroit.

Also, the City of Detroit owns Joe Louis Arena. And while Illitch has taken flak for leaving it as a tenant... by doing so he's allowing the City to sell the Joe's property (which is on prime riverfront land) to a hotel/convention center development and the City will make a huge amount of money off it both now and later, which they can use towards immediately lessening their crippling Kwame Kilpatrick-induced debt. Illitch knew this part of it too, and that it would help the city.

For a long time, there was a sign above the locker room exit at Joe Louis Arena, the last thing players would see before leaving for the ice.... a paraphrased passage from Luke in the Bible: "To those whom much is given, much is expected". Illitch truly believed if he (and others) gave enough, you could and should expect big things from others. That's why he spent so big on the Red Wings and Tigers, because you couldn't expect a winner if you weren't willing to spend for it. And it's also why he spent money in areas of Detroit that others told him not to. I know that sounds hokey, but.. Illitch *was* kinda' hokey in that regard. In a really good, genuine way.

And I'm going to tell you this: it's also why any time the Red Wings did something, or the Tigers did something, or some other good Illitch-related news came out... fans went out and bought Little Caesars pizza. That's an actual thing people would do around here. Because can I tell you... that pizza is not exactly good, and there are no lack of big-time pizza franchises based in Michigan (Hungry Howie's, Dominos, Jet's) to choose from even. But buying Hot n' Ready pizzas is the equivalent of a toast to Illitch and the teams, or celebrating Detroit.

Sorry for the super-long post, but man... I just wish people realized he was kinda' a sports owner secondarily, and that was actually what made him even more beloved as an owner (besides the winning of course).

That's some good info. As someone not from Michigan, I never knew that. All I knew was that he owned sports teams and the horrible pizza chain. It sounds like he was a really good guy.

Seriously, Little Caesars is horrible pizza. I got my kids and I a couple hot n' ready pizzas not long ago when my wife was working. It was nasty. We had Little Caesars around here back in the late 80's and it was actually decent. My friends and I used to love "Pizza Pizza". Did they change their recipe or something?

Malkin (leaving his feet) "head shot" on Wheeler https://streamable.com/vx6ag

I really don't understand how Wheeler can't see him coming...just from a protect yourself point of view (regardless of right/wrong) I really think players today would benefit from thinking like players did from the first 80+ years hockey was played (assume the guy coming right at you is going to hit you and prepare for the incoming hit/protect yourself!)

nino33 wrote:Malkin (leaving his feet) "head shot" on Wheeler https://streamable.com/vx6ag

Head shot!?!
I only saw shoulder to shoulder and no contact to head at all...

Edgars wrote:

nino33 wrote:Malkin (leaving his feet) "head shot" on Wheeler

Head shot!?!
I only saw shoulder to shoulder and no contact to head at all...

#1 that's why I put head shot was in quotations #2 I got it from this HFBoards thread titled "Malkin: Some might say "vicious" head shot to Wheeler" http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showt ... ?t=2190579 #3 my actual point was how could Wheeler not see him coming/why didn't he prepare for the hit (I didn't comment on Malkin's actions at all)

bruins72 wrote:Seriously, Little Caesars is horrible pizza. I got my kids and I a couple hot n' ready pizzas not long ago when my wife was working. It was nasty. We had Little Caesars around here back in the late 80's and it was actually decent. My friends and I used to love "Pizza Pizza". Did they change their recipe or something?

The Detroit Deep Dish is awfully good still. The regular crust has a tendency to be undercooked though for some reason, and that kinda' ruins it. I know our local Little Caesars store is always completely overwhelmed, the Hot n Ready thing overwhelms the employees. I go in there to pick some up and I'll see like 15 employees in that little kitchen scrambling around trying to get pizzas made and in & out of ovens and they still can't keep up. And so corners get cut and pizzas don't get baked right or long enough , I think. The crusts end up being doughy like the Crazy Bread. That's their biggest problem.


I can't believe Vermette is actually going to appeal his 10-game suspension. It boggles the mind. The league should come back and say "You know what, fine, let's make it 20 games instead". Because I can't imagine any possible argument he can make on his behalf, and it's so extraordinarily stupid to even consider appealing.

I think that hit was perfectly normal. Wheeler was just focusing on the puck IMO that's why he did not see Malkin right away but overall it's not that much of an headshot.

Vermette is really going against his suspension? He hit a ref, I don't know what he expects.

philou21 wrote:I think that hit was perfectly normal. Wheeler was just focusing on the puck IMO that's why he did not see Malkin right away but overall it's not that much of an headshot.

I don't think Wheeler had or even touched the puck...

Primis wrote: I can't believe Vermette is actually going to appeal his 10-game suspension. It boggles the mind. The league should come back and say "You know what, fine, let's make it 20 games instead". Because I can't imagine any possible argument he can make on his behalf, and it's so extraordinarily stupid to even consider appealing.

philou21 wrote:Vermette is really going against his suspension? He hit a ref, I don't know what he expects.

I can't believe the team/his teammates aren't telling him to "shut up"

I've seen many comments saying Calgary "doesn't get the calls" because of the Wideman incident (which was just horrible, and Widemen deserved way more then he got IMO...I don't believe it was an accident or that he wasn't aware of what he was doing myself, and I think the arbitrator finding "the collision was not intentional" was a ridiculously bad decision)

nino33 wrote:I've seen many comments saying Calgary "doesn't get the calls" because of the Wideman incident (which was just horrible, and Widemen deserved way more then he got IMO...I don't believe it was an accident or that he wasn't aware of what he was doing myself, and I think the arbitrator finding "the collision was not intentional" was a ridiculously bad decision)

I think there are politics involved with Wideman still.

The league is scared to do anything that might admit the possibility of even temporary brain trauma/issues, given the litigation for them re: brain injuries which is going poorly. And so they went after Wideman hard.... harder than they probably should have, knowing what was at stake outside of that one issue.

The irony being, it opens the door later for Wideman to come back after the league for the exact same brain trauma denial things they're in toruble for now.

Vermette though.... he has no case. There is nothing he can plead. It reeks either of NHLPA interference shenanigans, or Vermette's team finding a hill to die on and choosing very, very poorly. Because I can't imagine the player himself deciding to take a stand on that alone. He's gotten advice fomr somewhere to fight it. Perhaps the team told him to, hoping to delay things and get another game or two out of him before the inevitable suspension (in which case I think games should be added to the suspension when upheld).