EHM The Blue Line

Nathan wrote: As an aside to a slightly different topic, I wouldn't mind seeing what certain other scouts have to say. The average fan has access to any of a number of scouting agencies during the pre-draft time period, and teams themselves are certainly aware of them. Instead of having a ton of scouting reports available from your own scouts, perhaps it would be possible to have a posting on May 15 of a particular year that "The THN Draft Preview Issue has been released. Click here to see their top 100, click here to merge their rankings into the overall scouting rankings, and click here to merge their scouting notes into yours".

Then it would be possible to pull up a more comprehensive scouting report that would say something like:
Player X
(general information)
Draft rankings: CSS 4, THN 7, ISS 6
Mock drafts: THN 9th, CSS 2nd, ISS 6th
Teams looking to draft player before you can:
One-line scouting notes:
Injury concerns:

I like this idea. Being able to compare your own team's scouting reports to services like the ISS and NHL Central Scouting is definitely something I'd like to see. That scouting profile page that shows multiple rankings and so on would be ideal as well. Perhaps have a section describing what other services think of this player (their rank, thoughts, teams interested, etc) and then have a section describing what your own scouts think of the player and add their own rank to the mix. This would provide a good amount of information I think that would make scouting and drafting more manageable.

Interesting idea, Nathan! I could actually see that (THN Draft Preview issue and things like that) as a logical reason to give teams basic player scouting. Like you say, don't release the info until mid-May or something like that, and only give basic player detail (keeping with my previous suggestions, I would say low detail/moderate accuracy reports). It would be a free scouting report to give you at least the basics on the Top 100 ranked players but you'd still want to do your own scouting.

Team Scouting Budget:

I really like the idea that each team should have a budget for scouting.

In the real NHL I doubt that every team has exactly the same budget to spend on scouting so wouldn't it be a nice challenge to have different budgets for all the teams. Big market teams (Rangers, Detroit, Toronto, etc.) could have a huge budget and teams who are struggling financially would probably have a lot less to spend.

The Team Scouting Budget should include all contracts for every scout and the director plus all travel/living on the road costs.

The larger budget a team has should let them be able to:
Hire the more talented scouts
Hire more scouts
Be able to send more scouts on more frequent scouting trips.

The lower budget a team has could:
Make it difficult to hire the more successful scouts
Hire only a small group of scouts
Not be able to send out scouts too often/ too long

Yeah I agree, there should be a scouting budget that should definitely have an impact on scouting.
Maybe when you assign a scout to a task, it should tell you how much money it will cost you, approximately. Eg - "It would cost $10,000 to send Scout X to the OHL for the season", "it would cost $50,000 to send Scout Y to Russia" etc. (those figures just for example's sake, no idea how much would be appropriate) This way, if you have a great Swedish scout you will be able to scout that area more cheaply than by sending one of your Canadian-born scouts to Scandinavia. Hope that makes sense.

Just thought, it would be cool if your chief scout provided you with a mock draft for the first few rounds, with the teams he sees taking players and the players he thinks you should take at certain places, similar to those by the ISS and media.

One of the things that annoyed me the most about scouting in EHM, is not being able to find a player to fill a specific role.
I don't want to have to click on 100 different players to find an Enforcer, or a Playmaker. Which is generally the case with EHM.
The player bio may say they are a playmaking forward and have 5 career assists but 300 career goals(well not that bad, but you get the point)

It would be nice if you could send your scouts to find a specific type player.... IE playmaker
or at least sort the players scouted by what their role likely would be. Enforcers were always a pain in the ass to find.
Had to pull up a scout report for someone that could make the 3rd or 4th line and had Psycho, Mercenary, ect

I am not gonna say the first version of the database is almost done, because everytime that thought crosses my mind I remember something I have forgotten. Anyway, it has come a long way and right now I am on the drafting part. We need help in determining what need to be stored.

From a player's POV:
- year, round, position, draft drafted in...

From a draft's POV:
- how many rounds, league(s) involved, how is the draft order determined, who is eligible to be drafted (age, region, nationality...), upper and lower age limits...

Help me with more rules etc. that we might need. If you could describe how different drafts determine the draft orders and how it is determined what players are eligible for different drafts that would be very helpful.

I figure as described above we need to store both a draft history and draft strutures. Don't be afraird to mention stuff I have not, I am sure there is a lot going on that I am not aware of.

Well for KHL Draft...teams can draft people from all over the world, but they mainly draft Russians. Players must not have a contract with KHL and NHL teams...teams can use up to 3 picks to protect own players. The order is the reversed one, pretty much like the NHL one. Players are eligible i think from 17 to 21 years old.
You should think about KHL rights as well. Russians in the NHL (for example) have KHL rights belonging to someone until they are 28. Teams which draft players have rights on them until they are 28.
More info here http://www.russianhockeyfans.com/khl/20 ... t-199.html
and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_KHL_Junior_Draft

Alessandro wrote:Well for KHL Draft...teams can draft people from all over the world, but they mainly draft Russians. Players must not have a contract with KHL and NHL teams...teams can use up to 3 picks to protect own players. The order is the reversed one, pretty much like the NHL one. Players are eligible i think from 17 to 21 years old.
You should think about KHL rights as well. Russians in the NHL (for example) have KHL rights belonging to someone until they are 28. Teams which draft players have rights on them until they are 28.
More info here http://www.russianhockeyfans.com/khl/20 ... t-199.html
and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_KHL_Junior_Draft

Thanks

Alessandro wrote:You should think about KHL rights as well. Russians in the NHL (for example) have KHL rights belonging to someone until they are 28.

We will, we are redoing the inital design to be more flexible regarding drafting and player rights.

I think you should try and script some draft tendencies. For example, Sweden and Russia have roughly the same talent pool, but nowadays for a number of reasons NHL teams are more Sweden-oriented

With tendencies (maybe a db value?) you can adjust pretty much any draft...you could set NHL teams drafting a certain percentage of canadians, swedish, americans, and so on, KHL more Russians, bla bla bla

Alessandro wrote:With tendencies (maybe a db value?) you can adjust pretty much any draft...you could set NHL teams drafting a certain percentage of canadians, swedish, americans, and so on, KHL more Russians, bla bla bla

Drafting tendencies make sense. I don't know if that's something that should be set up by league or by GM though. I know certain teams in the NHL will go with European players more than others and some GM's go with almost strictly North American players.

I agree with Bruins, drafting tendency should be a GM attribute more than a league attribute. Maybe it could be a hidden attribute that, instead of ranging from 1-20, could be like either 1, 2, 3 or 4, with 1 being "prefers drafting fellow countrymen", 2 being "prefers North Americans in general", 3 being "prefers Europeans in general" and 4 "is not quite picky and drafts whoever he likes best". Or is a 1-20 attribute, with 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 and 16-20 being four different scales within a single attribute that more finely evaluates one GM's tendencies:

1-5: prefers North Americans
6-10: prefers fellow countrymen
11-15: prefers Europeans
16-20: not picky

It might be nice to also add some kind of a "fan pressure" to draft local kids, for some teams at least, which could result in disgruntling if the GM disregards local players too much (as is the case with Montreal fans who continuously complain about the lack of French Canadians on the team).

- YZG

There already is a drafting tendency attribute for staff members, however its intention is different from what is suggested here. These are the possible values:

Draft best available
Draft according to need
Unspecified

Perhaps this should be called draft strategy instead? YZG I will be looking to add your suggestion either way.

dabo wrote:There already is a drafting tendency attribute for staff members, however its intention is different from what is suggested here. These are the possible values:

Draft best available
Draft according to need
Unspecified

Perhaps this should be called draft strategy instead? YZG I will be looking to add your suggestion either way.

draft based on hometown, and nationality should be involved to some extent. Montreal you'd think between some player and a player they think comparable but is french they'd take the french. Of course this would be the GMs tendency along with the scouts recomendations..

And now drafting Russians is a risky thing so few teams do it..

are you making your game customizable for start date? Reason i ask is because it would require alot of work making the europeans stay in their hometown in earlier years to name one..


Here's one maybe: Draft based on current ability; Draft based on potential ability.

Draft based on player size, player role, sucess in major junior (playoffs)

Well now thinking about what you say, there should be another rating, not abotu the drafting percentage, but smth like "Preference toward domestic players" (there is one in FM already). Most likely Burke would have a 20
This should work in both drafts and transfers. It's a known fact that some don't like dealing too much with Europeans, while some European trainers don't like having too many foreigners, and so on.

dabo wrote:There already is a drafting tendency attribute for staff members, however its intention is different from what is suggested here. These are the possible values:

Draft best available
Draft according to need
Unspecified

Perhaps this should be called draft strategy instead? YZG I will be looking to add your suggestion either way.

I was wrong, the attribute I described above is called drafting philosophy.

Perhaps I should add drafting tendency and domestic bias then?

dave1927p wrote:

dabo wrote:There already is a drafting tendency attribute for staff members, however its intention is different from what is suggested here. These are the possible values:

Draft best available
Draft according to need
Unspecified

Perhaps this should be called draft strategy instead? YZG I will be looking to add your suggestion either way.

draft based on hometown, and nationality should be involved to some extent. Montreal you'd think between some player and a player they think comparable but is french they'd take the french. Of course this would be the GMs tendency along with the scouts recomendations..

And now drafting Russians is a risky thing so few teams do it..

are you making your game customizable for start date? Reason i ask is because it would require alot of work making the europeans stay in their hometown in earlier years to name one..


Here's one maybe: Draft based on current ability; Draft based on potential ability.

Draft based on player size, player role, sucess in major junior (playoffs)

These are great ideas! There are some GMs/teams that let certain things sway them. Some teams are in love with size. They want big players. If two players are similarly ranked, they'll draft the bigger player. You also bring up a good point about current vs potential ability. Some teams will value a player higher because he's closer to being ready for the NHL even though his top end potential might not be as high as another player. I wonder if that one is an all the time thing or if it's a year to year thing? Some years they might be drafting with an immediate need while other drafts they might be looking long-term into the future. Then again, it's just something that should influence their ranking of players, not dictate it.

Alessandro wrote:Well now thinking about what you say, there should be another rating, not abotu the drafting percentage, but smth like "Preference toward domestic players" (there is one in FM already). Most likely Burke would have a 20
This should work in both drafts and transfers. It's a known fact that some don't like dealing too much with Europeans, while some European trainers don't like having too many foreigners, and so on.

That does make sense. Use the full 1-20 scale. It allows for a bit more variance.

dabo wrote:

dabo wrote:There already is a drafting tendency attribute for staff members, however its intention is different from what is suggested here. These are the possible values:

Draft best available
Draft according to need
Unspecified

Perhaps this should be called draft strategy instead? YZG I will be looking to add your suggestion either way.

I was wrong, the attribute I described above is called drafting philosophy.

Perhaps I should add drafting tendency and domestic bias then?

How about Domestic bias 1-20, 1 being they don't care where you're from and 20 being a GM that refuses to draft players from outside the country. Maybe make it so that in the 12-15 range you only draft from within the continent? Something like that.

Then I would go with a Player bias 1-20. Size vs skill. 1 means you want big players. 10 means you're not really influenced by this, you'll just take BPA. 20 means you focus on skill.

Then maybe a Ability bias. Current vs Potential. 1 means you're looking for the players with the best current ability. 10 means you're not really influenced by this. 20 means you're looking for players with the best potential ability.

And then finally a Need bias. BPA vs Position. 1 means you'll take the best player available. 10 means you're not especially influenced by this. 20 means you favor drafting based on positional needs.

Now these 4 biases shouldn't be considered rules for drafting. You're not going to see the Boston Bruins pass on Tyler Seguin because he's not very big or because they need defensemen more. These biases will influence player rankings on their draft board.

Does that make sense?

Perhaps domestic bias is too limiting. Should we have a regional bias for various regions or countries? Something like:

CanadaBias: 20
RussiaBias: 12
USABias: 16
SwedenBias: 4
FinlandBias: 2

Nothing against the Scandinavians - just an example. But this way a GM can have a preference for Russian players over Finnish players while maintaining a strong bias towards his own countrymen (if he's Canadian in this example).

That's an interesting idea, I like the depth it brings. But I see a couple of problems with this:

1. When new GMs are generated, how are those attributes generated? Randomly? If so, won't it result in a Canadian with, say, a Finnish bias of 20 and a Canadian bias of 3? Such people do exist, but they'd probably occur in-game far too often.

2. In dabo's aim to have the game be as thoroughly customizable as possible, if you establish a league in untraditional places (such as, in dabo's own words, Nigeria for instance), how would local GMs express their desire to have Nigerian players for instance on board? We can't quite start having one attribute for every single nation in the world, that's way too heavy.

The big advantage with "domestic bias" as a general thing is that it will work equally well whether the GM is Canadian, American, Japanese or even Vanuatuan. The attribute just looks at what the nationality of the GM is and says he'll prefer players with the same nationality if the attribute value is high and won't mind if it's small, or vice-versa. But it is also limited in the way you describe it, and may not always correctly simulate some GMs who'd be otherwise domestically oriented, but are fan of the playing style of the Swedes for instance and will prefer them, but only them, to Canadians. At the same time, I'm not sure how common that can be.

- YZG

YZG, you make good points.

To be honest, now a days it doesn't really matter where a player is from. Sure there was once a leafs GM who prefered Russians because he thought they were just so skilled (but alot of them couldn't take the change in the game and didn't pan out and went back to russia) and now the current leaf GM seems to prefer North american (mostly American -_-) hockey players but when in reality he just prefer North American STYLE hockey players - he doesn't care where they are from and i think very few do or ever have. Even Don Cherry, when he was a coach wouldn't care as long as they played his style and followed his rules.

A bias against Russians is in effect in the NHL simply because of the KHLs (with their high salarys and lack of a transfer agreement)

But in order for this to be realistic it would have to be dynamic - changing based on the rules and transfer agreements of leagues, country the GM is in etc.

It really is something tough to implement it seems, and just might not work out as planned. It might just be something that has to be simplified even more some thing like ----prefers north americans or perfers europeans.
At most it would be

Prefers Canadians ------------ Prefers Americans
Prefers North Americans ------ Prefers Europeans

These are some great ideas guys. I'm with bruins72 that these should only influence player rankings on their draft board. Like for each pick if there are 10 players that the GM and scouts like their tendencies will influence which one they pick.

I'd also suggest scouts should have their own tendencies and those should influence the GM. Might add an extra element to the game where GMs will pick scouts that reflect their tendencies or choose ones that are opposite them to challenge them and give them other perspectives.

I think a good compromise would be having a bias with areas, rather than nations.
North American bias
Scandinavian(+Finland) bias
Former CCCP bias
Central European+Czech/slovak bias
And so on

Disclaimer: I'm terribly sorry if these have been proposed already, but as I don't have the time to read through the whole thread and search doesn't help me much here.

There are some things missing from NHL draft scouting in EHM2007, first is camp similar to the one they held toronto this year I can't remember the name, but they ran some really tough physical tests and like 100 of the best ranked juniors were invited. I think this could give more accurate view on the player's physical abilities, say you assign a scout or two to the camp, they and the physical test rankings tell the rest, scouts could also have attribute for jugding physical abilities.. Another feature could be player interviews, cos that is major part IRL to jugde each junior's mental attributes, and here Assistant GM's attribute could be jugding mental attributes.

Just my two cents, I know it would be very complicate to code these, but hey they can be added later on. ; )

You know you could take this idea even further and give your coaches a preferred player type, like rough or skilled, two-way or offensive. Then you could set up more levels of chemistry between the GM and coach, and the coach and his players. To have a smooth running team you'd ideally want everyone on the same page.