EHM The Blue Line

I'm pretty sad about this:

http://www.chron.com/sports/more/articl ... 443456.php

If you read the article it talks about how the Houston Sports Authority thinks it's turning away more profitable concerts in order to "accommodate" the Aeros.

It's that very same mentality that has kept the NHL out of the 4th largest city in the U.S.

Well that sucks for the team and the fans. I think the fact that Houston don't have an NHL team is because Texas already got the Stars and maybe the NHL isn't interested in putting a second team in the same state. It's not like New-York who got fans from all sports. Texas citizens are probably not the most diehard hockey fans to have two teams, even if both cities are far enough.

And so another original IHL team bites the dust. It's too bad. So the Chicago Wolves, Milwaukee Admirals, and Grand Rapids Griffins are left of the original 6 that made the move over.

However, this *does* end the stalemate in Houston re: a future NHL franchise IIRC, right? I believe the Aeros no longer being the market renders that agreement null and void, so if someone wants to put an NHL team into the Toyota Center now there should be nothing really stopping them from doing so.

Hello Phoenix Coyotes or Columbus Blue Jackets?

That said.... LOL Iowa? Pro hockey is a repeat failure in Iowa and I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate this will be any different.

By the way, Vancouver has apparently officially purchased the Peoria Rivermen. While that would seem to be a good sign, purchasing instead of affiliating tells me they still want to move them to western Canada (specifically Abbotsford). So... that does not bode well for Peoria's AHL future. Hope they remain in contact with the ECHL...

The problem with Houston, and I've lived here since 1982, is that it's a city full of fair weather fans (except the NFL team). If a NHL team ever came here and they did not win it would not be supported.

I wish they would have said this was going to be the Aeros last year at the beginning of the season because I would have bought a 25 game package and had some fun.

Peoria are in talks with the ECHL but not for the upcomig season, but 2014-15.
Vancouver wants to move in to Abbotsford but Calgary must find a place for their team first. Utica, NY has been rumoured

Manimal wrote:Peoria are in talks with the ECHL but not for the upcomig season, but 2014-15.
Vancouver wants to move in to Abbotsford but Calgary must find a place for their team first. Utica, NY has been rumoured

Yes, the ECHL has a "deadline" to bring in new teams, and Peoria wouldn't have met it. The ECHL has been extremely adamant in recent years that they will not take late-comers and to have your ducks all in a row in advance if you want in, they saw the craziness going on in the CHL and UHL/IHL and didn't want that uncertainty even if it cost them some teams/markets. Peoria would fit in very well both geographically and historically with the ECHL (they have a history with most of the midwestern teams there), but I don't know if they're willing to eat some crow to do it. I hope they do move, both for the ECHL and because the AHL really does need to move west to some bigger markets.

Considering how terrible the Flames have done in Abbotsford, I'm surprised VAN wants in there instead. Minor pro teams don't historically do very well in juniors-obsessed Canada.

Utica? I'm surprised someone would be revisiting them for AHL. I know they've been mentioned in the past for ECHL market consideration (as has Glenn Falls), but I thought the AHL wasn't going to continue to try to retread these smaller eastern markets over and over again...

Van wants team there as can centralize training. It is one hour away from Vancouver. Abby, Chilliwack people are all Vancouver Canuck fans. The building will sell out every night if the Canucks prospects play there. Will be cheaper than Nucks games. It made no sense for Flames to have team in Vancouver market, but it makes huge sense for the Canucks.

As for Iowa hockey--not that bad dude. Kids are starting to come out of their hockey programs. There have been several teams that did average there...Dubuque Fighting Saints do well, Iowa Chops were okay...Quad City Mallards--would have done okay save for woeful Flames. Remember some of the blame for AHL franchises not succeeding goes to parent club--and the Flames have hardly had a strong system. That being said one would think Houston a better market....but apparently not.

batdad wrote:Quad City Mallards--would have done okay save for woeful Flames. Remember some of the blame for AHL franchises not succeeding goes to parent club--and the Flames have hardly had a strong system. That being said one would think Houston a better market....but apparently not.

Actually the QC Flames drew pretty well. When they had the Flames yanked to BC and lost the AHL though they struggled. It's hard to "go back" in some markets, and while there was an initial surge in attendance in the old IHL 2.0 it quickly evaporated away and dropped well below the level of the AHL days. It hasn't helped that QC has had some terrible owners in there too, some said the right things but didn't then do them.

The NJ Devils are a truly terrible affiliates to have, Anaheim also isn't very good either. There's a reason some of these clubs seems to have a new farm affiliate every year or two: the farm club doesn't want to renew with them.

I'm not a fan of the "geographic proximity" thing with farm clubs because the parent clubs spent half the time on the road anyways. Grand Rapids may be down the road from Detroit, but that doesn't help if Detroit is visiting San Jose, or Grand Rapids is on the road playing out east in Springfield anyways. It makes more sense to me between AHL and ECHL/CHL because of the lack of continental travel there and the frequency of call-ups. Wish they'd just stick to strong, proven markets instead.

YOu do not have to be a fan of the geographical thing. but in this market....which is Canuck crazed...it will work. The fans will be all over going to watch the Heat play as a Vancouver Canuck farm club. The situation in this area is SOOOOOO much different than anywhere else. Only two other places could pull it off...so in some ways you are right. Those two other places are Toronto and Montreal. People here are crazed for news of their prospects and they will go watch.

Lindros the canucks, im not going to any heat game if they're affiliated with them. Any other team sure, but not the canucks

LOL Animal. The one in a million out here. They do not need you though, they will do well with all the worshippers. OH yeah....right up until they realize the CAncuks suck...then they will quit going. So for the next 4 years the Heat will sell out.

LOL you guys kill me

Canucks have some good young players. We had some of them in ECHL Kalamazoo this last year or so. Their farm looks to be in good shape for the next few years at any rate. Guys like Archibald & Sauve were better than some others we've seen come through in the 4 years since joining the ECHL and I know some people are high on hopes with Cannata even though he couldn't get playing time behind Joel Martin.

If they were in the ECHL...they are not very good. That is where the guys go who are just never going to make it. Guys who play there FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME (meaning a full season or 2) and make the show on any good team....are very few and far between. ALEX BURROWS is the lottery winner. They can sometimes play 3-4 line in the show, but usually on a team that has a major dearth of players and prospects. Archibald is average at best. Sauve is going to be okay...but is going to be a marginal #5-6 dman if he ever makes it to the show.

Cannata is okay and could make the show this year, since he is the only healthy signed Canuck goalie other than Roberto and Cory (lack out for year)

But I would beg to differ...I beleive HF has VAncouver prospects rated about 27th in the league. They are not very good, and it is not a surprise since they have either drafted very late or traded their picks (I believe it is one first and like 5 second rounders) over the past few seasons.

The Canucks...if they do not win in the next 2-3 years are in big doo doo. They have no one to replace Daniel and Henrik. They will not have a top line after they go. Unless they manage to make a heck of a trade. There are basically ZERO dmen in the pipeline. And after Eddie Lack...nothing in goal either. Schroeder and Jensen are their best prospects and at this point neither is more than a 2nd liner at age 28. BIG TROUBLE....ANd I bet Schroeder is gone soon too.

The Canucks could easily be the Calgary Flames...one big run, fall short....no picks....nothing.....still finish too high to get a stud.....die...die....die...and then in Big trouble as waited to long to move guys.

I think Brendan Gaunce is also a pretty good prospect and maybe Defensman Corrado but yeah, Gill has hugely mismanaged the prospect end of things by trading young players(Grabner) draft picks(you name em) and of course the one thing he controls least is where the team drafts BUT Detroit seems to do OK with low first round picks( you have to keep em to have a chance). Sometimes I think that even for a good team it might pay to trade away the occasion pending UFA at the deadline rather than lose them for nothing but that's where a strong farm system comes in. If you don't have one you can't do it and so will end the Canuck run in a few years unless major philosophy changes are instituted or some really massively good luck occurs. More Burrows, Tanevs, Edlers and Bieksa's found hiding under a rock someplace.... not bloody likely though.

batdad wrote:If they were in the ECHL...they are not very good. That is where the guys go who are just never going to make it.

Well for one thing, guys played in the ECHL this past season that wouldn't normally due to the lockout, so that's one thing to consider. That kinda' applies all-around and is why some teams that usually don't have success in the ECHL had it this year.

You kinda' completely missed what I was talking about though. I was referring to VAN's AHL team, not necessarily VAN themselves. I don't know if any of those guys will ever see time in VAN (Sauve has already I guess), though I think Archibald has the best shot. Trust me, some teams send absolute garbage to their ECHL teams (Hi New Jersey and Philly, shoot NJ sends garbage to their AHL team too it seems)... some do OK considering their poor org (NYI, can't bash or praise them)... and some seem to send clearly better guys down and view it still as a developmental ground (SJ, VAN). We've seen all types in Kalamazoo in just a handful of seasons. VAN's guys they've sent are definitely of a better quality and I'm betting if they're moving their AAA affiliate they probably might want the same with AA, so a lot of K-Wing fans will be kinda' sad to see them go.

Honestly, VAN of all teams is probably one of the *better* examples of ECHL guys making it even. IIRC they have several guys on the regular NHL roster that have spent significant ECHL time in the past, including Alex Burrows. As a Red Wings fan, I can tell you their guys in Toledo (aside from goalies) basically never make it or have any hope, because they view Toledo as for developing Grand Rapids guys, not developing guys for Detroit. Luckily for Toledo fans, they also have Chicago/Rockford as an affiliate, who sends a bit better players down IMO.

Anyhow my point was I think VAN's farm team, wherever they end up, won't be a doormat. I won't ever badmouth VAN's system now that I've seen the differences in philosophy and how systems are handled.

CeeBee wrote:I think Brendan Gaunce is also a pretty good prospect and maybe Defensman Corrado but yeah, Gill has hugely mismanaged the prospect end of things by trading young players(Grabner) draft picks(you name em) and of course the one thing he controls least is where the team drafts BUT Detroit seems to do OK with low first round picks( you have to keep em to have a chance).

Well, DET often then trades those late firsts DOWN even for extra picks later. That was a hot topic of discussion this past trade deadline when Holland stated he didn't want to part with "valuable firsts" when he did so last year for Kyle Quincey and then also has a rep for trading them down anyways and not actually picking with them. It did not set well with many Wings fans as a reasoning, and if he trades down again this next draft I expect for a lot more calls for him to be fired and then I won't really blame them (Holland's words not matching his actions and all).

Primis. Vancouver development system is considered to be one of the worst in the NHL. They have got lucky with Edler to some extent but more so Burrows and Tanev. They did not develop these guys. Those players did it on their own. There is noone on Vancouver roster that did not come to the org basically randy to play in the NHL with the exception of Hansen. Who was developed under a different regime. The ECHL is a dead zone. Completely narrowly that is where mistakes in drafting and signing end up. Maybe one day a guy like aarchibald plays fourth line in AHL but nothing more.

And Gillis is no Detroit management team. They say they follow and try to do what dead things do? The. Why keep drafting 20 year old farm team filler then? Anthony archibald. Never gonna be anything but scrubs.
Take a flier on a young guy who has not grown yet or not caught up to his body. Tanev type. In the draft. No hope to get lucky.

Defending Canuck drafting and development is IMPOSSIBLE. They have not done a good job for a long long time.

batdad wrote:Primis. Vancouver development system is considered to be one of the worst in the NHL. They have got lucky with Edler to some extent but more so Burrows and Tanev. They did not develop these guys. Those players did it on their own. There is noone on Vancouver roster that did not come to the org basically randy to play in the NHL with the exception of Hansen. Who was developed under a different regime. The ECHL is a dead zone. Completely narrowly that is where mistakes in drafting and signing end up. Maybe one day a guy like aarchibald plays fourth line in AHL but nothing more.

Erm, what? Archibald, already played 20 games in Chicago last year and was also a nearly point-per-game guy in the ECHL then. Now this year in Chicago Archibald played 55 games and had 12G and 22 pts.

Anthony I dunno', I didn't mention him specifically because I'm apathetic. Same for Grenier and Mallet, I don't see anything sticking out in them specifically. Still think I see some good things in Sauve but time is probably running out. Like I said, you can definitely see the differences in the NHL-owned guys in the ECHL from org to org. Some teams send only guys that you look at and go "Yeah, he'll barely ever get AHL time, he's ECHL filler", and some teams send guys that you go "I could see him in the NHL eventually". VAN's had a couple guys stick out.

batdad wrote:And Gillis is no Detroit management team. They say they follow and try to do what dead things do? The. Why keep drafting 20 year old farm team filler then? Anthony archibald. Never gonna be anything but scrubs.

Umm, huh?


In other thread-related new, Iowa Wild unveiled their logo today. I won't even post it, it's lame. Very derivative of Minny's alt logo, and Houston's alt logo last couple of years. Not exciting or interesting at all.

Archibald is not good enough for the show. At best as I said is an AHLer. Maybe 3 line, maybe 2....He was an over age draft I believe went through the draft at least once without being selected..).Gills has done this a ton...it is ineffective. It only produces marginal players for the most part who are not going to be NHLers of any calibre. It is like the Canucks saying Raymond is a top 6 forward. Sure he is...on a mediocre team.


Go have a look at what experts say about Vancouver prospect pool. I believe most have them ranked in the 22-30 range. There are none bud. None. Schroeder is a marginal player at best in the show because of his size. After him and Jensen who may be a 2nd line guy...there is pretty much diddly squat save for Eddie Lack. Sauve had promise...now you never here a thing about him. At best he is an up and down career guy. (I guess this COrrado kid is a prospect since they called him up today).

Vancouver development system proves time and time again to be worthless since Gillis came on. His drafting is sketchy at best. He got lucky with Tanev. Almost all the rest that are on the team (young ones) are either Nonis or Burke picks.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Kesler-Kassian
Higgins-Roy-Hansen
rubbish-rubbish-rubbish
rubbish-rubbish

Edler-Bieksa
Hamhuis-Tanev
Ballard-Garrison

Lebongo
Schneider

Hmm...in that crew not one draft of Gillis, 1 goalie who did well developing in the minors for any length of time. Then there is Burrows. Hansen developed in the minors...but has never come close to reaching what they thought was 2nd line potential as a scorer. Rest are trades, or almost (save a few games) straight to NHLers.

Tanev is the only Gillis regime developed player. And even he was in the NHL after only a short stop in the minors...then went back...and then up again as soon as lockout over. This is the one find, and he pretty much came NHL ready.


That was my point...the Canucks keep saying they want to be like the Wings and Gillis made a point of it in his introductory comments as a new GM. He has restated it several times as has members of his staff. But...they are not. They draft old men who will never play. Not young long shots noone knows about

So to sum up:

1. Gills Sucks
2. Canuck development sucks
3. Gillis Sucks
4. Luongo sucks
5. Vigneault sucks
6. drafting guys at 20 who have been passed over 2x by 29 other teams....sucks