EHM The Blue Line

Below are the top 69 NHL Right Wingers by CA, along with a bit of extra rating information.

Please feel free to offer your thoughts/opinions! That's why I prepared/posted the data!
If you weren’t aware, there’s also a Goaltenders thread http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 45&t=11799 a Defensemen thread http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 36#p163836 and a Left Wingers thread http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 61#p163861


CA = Current Ability
PA = Potential Ability
OFF = Offensive Role
DEF = Defensive Role
Off Avg = the average rating of 4 significant offensive/scoring Attributes (Decisions, Vision/Creativity, Movement/Off the Puck and Passing)
Def Avg = the average rating of 4 significant defensive Attributes (Hitting, Checking, Pokecheck and Positioning)
The Skating column shows the player’s actual rating for each of the four skating Attributes (Acceleration- Agility- Balance- Pace/Speed)
Shot = actual Wristshot-Slapshot rating

The data below doesn't look at Mental Attributes (like Important Matches or Determination). Other important Attributes like Anticipation, Bravery, Consistency, Work Rate, Stamina, Natural Fitness and Strength are not included in the Offensive/Defensive Averages…I selected the Attributes I did (for the Offensive/Defensive Averages) based on my understanding of game mechanics, and the fact that to many Attributes makes it more difficult to actually determine what to edit.

There are 51 different Attributes and obviously not everything can be included in a chart intended to be an overview


Top 69 NHL Right Wingers by CA - TBL Rosters 6.0
[table][tr][th]Player[/th][th]Team[/th][th]CA[/th][th]PA[/th][th]OFF[/th][th]DEF[/th][th]Off Avg[/th][th]Def Avg[/th][th]Skating[/th][th]Shot[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Patrick Kane[/td][td]Chicago Blackhawks[/td][td]187[/td][th]180[/th][th]18[/th][th]15[/th][th]16.3[/th][th]11.3[/th][th]17-19-12-18[/th][th]18-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Alexander Ovechkin[/td][td]Washington Capitals[/td][td]186[/td][th]188[/th][th]18[/th][th]10[/th][th]15.8[/th][th]11.8[/th][th]16-17-19-17[/th][th]16-16[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Martin St. Louis[/td][td]Tampa Bay Lightning[/td][td]180[/td][th]180[/th][th]18[/th][th]13[/th][th]17.8[/th][th]12.5[/th][th]19-20-20-14[/th][th]16-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Marián Hossa[/td][td]Chicago Blackhawks[/td][td]180[/td][th]180[/th][th]18[/th][th]18[/th][th]16.5[/th][th]15.5[/th][th]11-17-16-10[/th][th]15-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Phil Kessel[/td][td]Toronto Maple Leafs[/td][td]180[/td][th]170[/th][th]18[/th][th]11[/th][th]16.0[/th][th]9.8[/th][th]16-13-14-18[/th][th]19-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Teemu Selänne[/td][td]Anaheim Ducks[/td][td]175[/td][th]175[/th][th]18[/th][th]14[/th][th]17.3[/th][th]10.8[/th][th]13-12-12-12[/th][th]14-16[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Rick Nash[/td][td]New York Rangers[/td][td]175[/td][th]175[/th][th]18[/th][th]9[/th][th]15.5[/th][th]11.0[/th][th]14-13-15-16[/th][th]19-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Corey Perry[/td][td]Anaheim Ducks[/td][td]170[/td][th]183[/th][th]18[/th][th]13[/th][th]15.8[/th][th]11.3[/th][th]14-17-18-14[/th][th]17-16[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jarome Iginla[/td][td]Boston Bruins[/td][td]165[/td][th]165[/th][th]18[/th][th]16[/th][th]16.3[/th][th]13.5[/th][th]9-14-16-8[/th][th]16-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jakub Voráček[/td][td]Philadelphia Flyers[/td][td]165[/td][th]170[/th][th]18[/th][th]15[/th][th]15.5[/th][th]12.0[/th][th]14-13-11-14[/th][th]14-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Alexander Semin[/td][td]Carolina Hurricanes[/td][td]160[/td][th]160[/th][th]17[/th][th]8[/th][th]16.5[/th][th]9.3[/th][th]15-20-16-16[/th][th]19-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]James Neal[/td][td]Pittsburgh Penguins[/td][td]160[/td][th]170[/th][th]18[/th][th]11[/th][th]15.8[/th][th]10.3[/th][th]17-11-14-12[/th][th]17-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Ryan Callahan[/td][td]New York Rangers[/td][td]160[/td][th]160[/th][th]17[/th][th]12[/th][th]13.8[/th][th]17.3[/th][th]15-14-14-15[/th][th]18-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Pascal Dupuis[/td][td]Pittsburgh Penguins[/td][td]160[/td][th]160[/th][th]17[/th][th]18[/th][th]12.3[/th][th]14.5[/th][th]15-11-12-13[/th][th]19-12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jaromír Jágr[/td][td]New Jersey Devils[/td][td]155[/td][th]155[/th][th]18[/th][th]13[/th][th]17.5[/th][th]10.3[/th][th]11-12-19-9[/th][th]16-16[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Marian Gáborík[/td][td]Columbus Blue Jackets[/td][td]155[/td][th]155[/th][th]18[/th][th]13[/th][th]16.0[/th][th]11.5[/th][th]20-18-13-15[/th][th]18-17[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jordan Eberle[/td][td]Edmonton Oilers[/td][td]155[/td][th]-9[/th][th]18[/th][th]9[/th][th]15.8[/th][th]8.8[/th][th]11-15-11-13[/th][th]18-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Radim Vrbata[/td][td]Phoenix Coyotes[/td][td]155[/td][th]155[/th][th]18[/th][th]14[/th][th]14.5[/th][th]12.5[/th][th]13-15-9-10[/th][th]15-17[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Wayne Simmonds[/td][td]Philadelphia Flyers[/td][td]155[/td][th]160[/th][th]17[/th][th]17[/th][th]15.5[/th][th]16.0[/th][th]10-11-17-11[/th][th]15-11[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau[/td][td]Colorado Avalanche[/td][td]155[/td][th]155[/th][th]18[/th][th]9[/th][th]15.3[/th][th]7.3[/th][th]8-10-9-9[/th][th]14-10[/th][/tr][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][th]Player[/th][th]Team[/th][th]CA[/th][th]PA[/th][th]OFF[/th][th]DEF[/th][th]Off Avg[/th][th]Def Avg[/th][th]Skating[/th][th]Shot[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Alex Burrows[/td][td]Vancouver Canucks[/td][td]155[/td][th]155[/th][th]17[/th][th]12[/th][th]13.0[/th][th]16.5[/th][th]13-14-15-10[/th][th]17-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]T.J. Oshie[/td][td]St. Louis Blues[/td][td]150[/td][th]170[/th][th]18[/th][th]16[/th][th]14.5[/th][th]14.0[/th][th]14-16-11-14[/th][th]12-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Shane Doan[/td][td]Phoenix Coyotes[/td][td]150[/td][th]150[/th][th]17[/th][th]15[/th][th]14.8[/th][th]14.8[/th][th]10-11-20-8[/th][th]17-16[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Kris Versteeg[/td][td]Chicago Blackhawks[/td][td]150[/td][th]165[/th][th]18[/th][th]14[/th][th]13.8[/th][th]11.5[/th][th]14-15-11-14[/th][th]8-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Michael Ryder[/td][td]New Jersey Devils[/td][td]150[/td][th]150[/th][th]17[/th][th]9[/th][th]14.5[/th][th]9.8[/th][th]8-8-10-8[/th][th]14-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Johan Franzén[/td][td]Detroit Red Wings[/td][td]150[/td][th]150[/th][th]17[/th][th]14[/th][th]15.0[/th][th]13.0[/th][th]11-12-15-11[/th][th]16-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Blake Wheeler[/td][td]Winnipeg Jets[/td][td]150[/td][th]155[/th][th]18[/th][th]10[/th][th]15.0[/th][th]10.5[/th][th]18-11-16-18[/th][th]18-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Martin Havlát[/td][td]San Jose Sharks[/td][td]150[/td][th]150[/th][th]18[/th][th]11[/th][th]13.3[/th][th]10.8[/th][th]15-13-12-15[/th][th]15-12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]David Clarkson[/td][td]Toronto Maple Leafs[/td][td]145[/td][th]145[/th][th]17[/th][th]9[/th][th]14.5[/th][th]11.5[/th][th]9-11-12-10[/th][th]19-16[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Matt Read[/td][td]Philadelphia Flyers[/td][td]145[/td][th]145[/th][th]17[/th][th]16[/th][th]14.5[/th][th]12.5[/th][th]15-12-9-15[/th][th]14-11[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Bobby Ryan[/td][td]Ottawa Senators[/td][td]145[/td][th]165[/th][th]18[/th][th]12[/th][th]14.8[/th][th]10.3[/th][th]18-12-18-14[/th][th]17-16[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Teddy Purcell[/td][td]Tampa Bay Lightning[/td][td]145[/td][th]155[/th][th]17[/th][th]9[/th][th]15.5[/th][th]9.0[/th][th]11-12-11-13[/th][th]15-12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Troy Brouwer[/td][td]Washington Capitals[/td][td]145[/td][th]140[/th][th]16[/th][th]17[/th][th]12.5[/th][th]15.3[/th][th]9-10-15-10[/th][th]15-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Justin Williams[/td][td]Los Angeles Kings[/td][td]145[/td][th]145[/th][th]16[/th][th]12[/th][th]13.3[/th][th]12.0[/th][th]15-13-11-13[/th][th]19-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Nathan Horton[/td][td]Columbus Blue Jackets[/td][td]145[/td][th]170[/th][th]17[/th][th]16[/th][th]13.3[/th][th]14.5[/th][th]12-10-12-12[/th][th]17-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Erik Cole[/td][td]Dallas Stars[/td][td]145[/td][th]145[/th][th]17[/th][th]16[/th][th]12.0[/th][th]14.3[/th][th]14-11-15-12[/th][th]15-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Milan Michálek[/td][td]Ottawa Senators[/td][td]145[/td][th]145[/th][th]17[/th][th]16[/th][th]12.8[/th][th]12.8[/th][th]16-13-16-16[/th][th]12-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Brian Gionta[/td][td]Montreal Canadiens[/td][td]140[/td][th]140[/th][th]16[/th][th]15[/th][th]13.0[/th][th]11.3[/th][th]17-19-14-15[/th][th]17-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Aleš Hemský[/td][td]Edmonton Oilers[/td][td]140[/td][th]140[/th][th]18[/th][th]8[/th][th]13.3[/th][th]6.8[/th][th]14-17-9-16[/th][th]12-12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Steve Downie[/td][td]Philadelphia Flyers[/td][td]140[/td][th]161[/th][th]16[/th][th]14[/th][th]12.3[/th][th]13.3[/th][th]10-7-11-11[/th][th]6-13[/th][/tr][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][th]Player[/th][th]Team[/th][th]CA[/th][th]PA[/th][th]OFF[/th][th]DEF[/th][th]Off Avg[/th][th]Def Avg[/th][th]Skating[/th][th]Shot[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Lee Stempniak[/td][td]Calgary Flames[/td][td]140[/td][th]140[/th][th]17[/th][th]15[/th][th]13.8[/th][th]11.5[/th][th]13-10-11-14[/th][th]16-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Michael Grabner[/td][td]New York Islanders[/td][td]140[/td][th]165[/th][th]18[/th][th]7[/th][th]11.0[/th][th]9.3[/th][th]20-16-9-20[/th][th]15-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Cal Clutterbuck[/td][td]New York Islanders[/td][td]140[/td][th]144[/th][th]15[/th][th]18[/th][th]10.5[/th][th]17.0[/th][th]11-8-13-10[/th][th]14-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Nail Yakupov[/td][td]Edmonton Oilers[/td][td]140[/td][th]-9[/th][th]17[/th][th]7[/th][th][/th][th]7.5[/th][th]11-11-8-13[/th][th]13-0[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Rene Bourque[/td][td]Montreal Canadiens[/td][td]140[/td][th]140[/th][th]17[/th][th]12[/th][th]11.3[/th][th]12.8[/th][th]13-10-14-11[/th][th]12-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jannik Hansen[/td][td]Vancouver Canucks[/td][td]140[/td][th]150[/th][th]16[/th][th]17[/th][th]12.3[/th][th]16.0[/th][th]16-9-9-16[/th][th]16-12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Chris Stewart[/td][td]St. Louis Blues[/td][td]140[/td][th]165[/th][th]17[/th][th]10[/th][th]12.5[/th][th]10.8[/th][th]7-8-12-8[/th][th]15-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Vladimir Tarasenko[/td][td]St. Louis Blues[/td][td]135[/td][th]-9[/th][th]17[/th][th]7[/th][th]14.3[/th][th]8.0[/th][th]14-15-9-16[/th][th]15-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jiří Hudler[/td][td]Calgary Flames[/td][td]135[/td][th]135[/th][th]18[/th][th]7[/th][th]14.5[/th][th]8.5[/th][th]12-16-11-12[/th][th]10-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Tomáš Kopecký[/td][td]Florida Panthers[/td][td]135[/td][th]135[/th][th]16[/th][th]18[/th][th]13.0[/th][th]15.3[/th][th]10-11-12-9[/th][th]14-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Daniel Cleary[/td][td]Detroit Red Wings[/td][td]135[/td][th]135[/th][th]15[/th][th]17[/th][th]11.3[/th][th]14.3[/th][th]11-11-13-9[/th][th]14-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Chris Higgins[/td][td]Vancouver Canucks[/td][td]135[/td][th]135[/th][th]16[/th][th]16[/th][th]12.8[/th][th]13.5[/th][th]13-13-13-13[/th][th]14-13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Brendan Gallagher[/td][td]Montreal Canadiens[/td][td]135[/td][th]-14[/th][th]16[/th][th]9[/th][th]13.3[/th][th]7.5[/th][th]13-13-8-10[/th][th]17-12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Todd Bertuzzi[/td][td]Detroit Red Wings[/td][td]135[/td][th]135[/th][th]17[/th][th]8[/th][th]12.0[/th][th]11.5[/th][th]9-9-13-7[/th][th]7-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Drew Stafford[/td][td]Buffalo Sabres[/td][td]135[/td][th]155[/th][th]16[/th][th]15[/th][th]13.5[/th][th]13.3[/th][th]12-11-13-13[/th][th]16-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Derek Dorsett[/td][td]New York Rangers[/td][td]135[/td][th]125[/th][th]16[/th][th]17[/th][th]9.5[/th][th]15.5[/th][th]10-8-9-10[/th][th]10-9[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Damien Brunner[/td][td]New Jersey Devils[/td][td]135[/td][th]117[/th][th]17[/th][th]9[/th][th][/th][th][/th][th]6-6-6-6[/th][th]17-0[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Devin Setoguchi[/td][td]Winnipeg Jets[/td][td]130[/td][th]145[/th][th]16[/th][th]7[/th][th]15.0[/th][th]9.8[/th][th]17-16-12-14[/th][th]14-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Kyle Okposo[/td][td]New York Islanders[/td][td]130[/td][th]165[/th][th]16[/th][th]10[/th][th]14.8[/th][th]11.3[/th][th]17-15-17-19[/th][th]16-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]David Moss[/td][td]Phoenix Coyotes[/td][td]130[/td][th]130[/th][th]15[/th][th]17[/th][th]13.3[/th][th]14.3[/th][th]11-12-13-10[/th][th]15-12[/th][/tr][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][th]Player[/th][th]Team[/th][th]CA[/th][th]PA[/th][th]OFF[/th][th]DEF[/th][th]Off Avg[/th][th]Def Avg[/th][th]Skating[/th][th]Shot[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Patric Hörnqvist[/td][td]Nashville Predators[/td][td]130[/td][th]160[/th][th]17[/th][th]6[/th][th]13.0[/th][th]10.0[/th][th]11-10-14-11[/th][th]13-15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Michael Frolík[/td][td]Winnipeg Jets[/td][td]130[/td][th]-9[/th][th]15[/th][th]14[/th][th]12.0[/th][th]12.3[/th][th]13-11-10-14[/th][th]15-11[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Brad Boyes[/td][td]Florida Panthers[/td][td]130[/td][th]130[/th][th]16[/th][th]13[/th][th]14.8[/th][th]10.8[/th][th]13-13-8-10[/th][th]16-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Cam Atkinson[/td][td]Columbus Blue Jackets[/td][td]130[/td][th]-7[/th][th]15[/th][th]8[/th][th]13.3[/th][th]8.0[/th][th]12-13-7-12[/th][th]16-12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Mats Zuccarello[/td][td]New York Rangers[/td][td]130[/td][th]140[/th][th]17[/th][th]10[/th][th]13.8[/th][th]9.0[/th][th]14-15-14-15[/th][th]13-12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Matt Halischuk[/td][td]Winnipeg Jets[/td][td]130[/td][th]145[/th][th]14[/th][th]17[/th][th]12.3[/th][th]14.5[/th][th]12-12-10-12[/th][th]12-10[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Matt Frattin[/td][td]Los Angeles Kings[/td][td]130[/td][th]-7[/th][th]15[/th][th]10[/th][th]10.5[/th][th]9.0[/th][th]10-8-8-11[/th][th]11-11[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Zach Kassian[/td][td]Vancouver Canucks[/td][td]130[/td][th]-9[/th][th]16[/th][th]10[/th][th]9.3[/th][th]11.8[/th][th]7-11-18-8[/th][th]12-12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Chuck Kobasew[/td][td]Pittsburgh Penguins[/td][td]130[/td][th]130[/th][th]15[/th][th]16[/th][th]10.0[/th][th]12.0[/th][th]10-12-8-9[/th][th]11-13[/th][/tr][/tr][/table]

ADDITIONALLY THERE ARE...
- 17 right wingers with a 125 CA
- 11 right wingers with a 120 CA
- 1 right winger with a 118 CA
- 1 right winger with a 116 CA
- 11 right wingers with a 115 CA
- 15 right wingers with a CA below 115

Bertuzzi is playing a lot more of a defensive role in DET lately. Bump his OFF role down a bit and raise his DEF role up a bit?

Cleary at 135 CA is too high. He is not effective at all this season. Wings fans are crying for him to be a healthy scratch more.

Zuccarello could use a bump overall, his defensive role and skills (especially the stick) should be bumped, hes a big part of the Rangers BP because of his great stick positioning. He also wins alot of pucks along the boards.

Again thanks.

Again I'll have a Jets slant here.

Wheeler: Would bump his CA to 155 and PA to 160. Probably the best offensive forward on the Jets today when he's on his game. Unfortunately he's extremely inconsistent. Will score in bunches and then disappear for several games. Good creativity and playmaking. Big player that isn't overly physical but doesn't shy away either. Skating looks good, maybe bump agility by one or two points. Average peak production should be in the 60-65 point range.

Setoguchi. About right, has been fairly underwhelming. Without Thornton looks to be stuck as a 40-45 point guy. I'd drop his acceleration and agility by a point or two, doesn't knock me out with his skating.

Halischuk is overrated. He's a solid fourth line player. Gritty, determined, works hard, not a whole lot of talent there though. Would take his CA and PA down to an average or slightly above average fourth liner level.

Frolik is the second best RW on the team right now in my opinion. To be clear that's on a team with poor depth so in no way do I think he is a legitimate second liner. But he's very versatile, is a 40-45 point guy when he gets some opportunity and kills penalties well. Looking at the database I see he's a 130 CA and -9 PA. The -9 PA seems generous given the re-rating work, I'd drop it to -8 but bump his CA to 140 along with his skating and defensive attributes. Would also bump his defensive role up one. Looks like he's not the offensive star that was once predicted by some but has turned out to be very well rounded.

Other thoughts:

Selanne is very overrated. Been a couple years since he was a 175 CA player. Would take that down by 15 (more if only basing on this year).

I'd drop Dupuis' CA and PA 5 points based on the Crosby factor.

Bobby Ryan, would bump CA to 160 and PA to 170.

Yakupov needs a BIG skating bump. Has had problems this year but it's not his skating.

Gallagher's -14 PA means there is a good chance he stays a borderline NHL player when I think he's already proven himself as at least solid. Maybe change it to -8?

-9 for Kassian's PA seems generous, would reduce it to -8.

Would bump Stewart's PA down 5. Skating needs a bit of a bump.

Was there an engine related reason that veterans don't have a higher PA than their CA? Because otherwise Selänne's, Jagr's and Iginla's PAs seem too low. Also Kane, Kessel, Brouwer, Dorsett and Brunner seem to have a higher CA than PA, is this intentional?

I really dont understand the whole CA PA Attribute thing anymore, the more I look into it

Animal31 wrote:I really dont understand the whole CA PA Attribute thing anymore, the more I look into it

It makes sense to me...feel free to ask any questions you might have

pantsukki wrote:Was there an engine related reason that veterans don't have a higher PA than their CA? Because otherwise Selänne's, Jagr's and Iginla's PAs seem too low.

Have you read Archi's recent posts where he explains the reasoning? (Dec 30 http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 30#p163730 and Jan 1 http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 9f#p163932 - also linked to was this older thread http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 110&t=5334) Essentially having such veterans having room to grow/develop like a youngster is unrealistic, and having such veterans have a higher PA (based on their best season from years before) results in an "overrated database" with to many top end players (as JeffR noted "After running the game for a while, there winds up being far too many players at the higher reaches of CA and it's just not a realistic environment to model anything in.")

pantsukki wrote: Also Kane, Kessel, Brouwer, Dorsett and Brunner seem to have a higher CA than PA, is this intentional?

No. The PAs of such younger players were not (yet) looked at, but CA was...so in some cases players have had an increase to their CA that results in it being greater than their PA (which it shouldn't be)

archibalduk wrote:we agreed that the v6.0 DB would be released by Christmas regardless of how things were because it had been 8 months since the last DB and everybody was understandably anxious for the first 2013/14 update of the season. The v6.0 should really be regarded as a work in progress

archibalduk wrote:POTENTIAL ABILITY
The only work on PAs I did was to cap older players' PAs according to their CAs. In other words, to prevent older players improving any further.
I didn't make any other adjustments to PAs seeing as the CAs still needed more work.

nino33 wrote:

pantsukki wrote:Was there an engine related reason that veterans don't have a higher PA than their CA? Because otherwise Selänne's, Jagr's and Iginla's PAs seem too low.

Have you read Archi's recent posts where he explains the reasoning? (Dec 30 http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 30#p163730 and Jan 1 http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 9f#p163932 - also linked to was this older thread http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 110&t=5334) Essentially having such veterans having room to grow/develop like a youngster is unrealistic, and having such veterans have a higher PA (based on their best season from years before) results in an "overrated database" with to many top end players (as JeffR noted "After running the game for a while, there winds up being far too many players at the higher reaches of CA and it's just not a realistic environment to model anything in.")

But don't we then end up with very poor early drafts?

No in the end we will not, because the prospects for the proper year will be put into the game and rated decently....once the gang gets around to that, if they have not already.

batdad wrote:No in the end we will not, because the prospects for the proper year will be put into the game and rated decently....once the gang gets around to that, if they have not already.

Well, yeah, that should work for 2014, 2015, but how about 2016, 2017, 2018? Because if Selänne, Jagr and others retire at the end of the first season (usually not, as they seem to spend one more year as a free agent despite not wanting to sign for anyone), their regens won't be available for drafting for a few years. But when their regens become available, aren't they supposed to be the best prospects available?

In looking at the data just now I noticed I missed a few right wingers...


[table][tr][th]Player[/th][th]Team[/th][th]CA[/th][th]PA[/th][th]OFF[/th][th]DEF[/th][th]Off Avg[/th][th]Def Avg[/th][th]Skating[/th][th]Shot[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Daniel Alfredsson[/td][td]Detroit Red Wings[/td][td]175[/td][th]175[/th][th]18[/th][th]17[/th][th]15.5[/th][th]13.5[/th][th]10-134-18-8[/th][th]14-16[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jason Pominville[/td][td]Minnesota Wild[/td][td]160[/td][th]160[/th][th]18[/th][th]15[/th][th]15.3[/th][th]12.3[/th][th]13-14-12-11[/th][th]16-14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Brent Burns[/td][td]San Jose Sharks[/td][td]140[/td][th]170[/th][th]17[/th][th]18[/th][th]14.8[/th][th]12.8[/th][th]16-12-17-16[/th][th]14-15[/th][/tr][/tr][/table]

pantsukki wrote:

batdad wrote:No in the end we will not, because the prospects for the proper year will be put into the game and rated decently....once the gang gets around to that, if they have not already.

Well, yeah, that should work for 2014, 2015, but how about 2016, 2017, 2018? Because if Selänne, Jagr and others retire at the end of the first season (usually not, as they seem to spend one more year as a free agent despite not wanting to sign for anyone), their regens won't be available for drafting for a few years. But when their regens become available, aren't they supposed to be the best prospects available?

Why should they be? I prefer some kind of randomization of who is going to be the best in the league. No fun to me to go through and find Hasek all the time. But in all likelihood those guys will be regenerated with a high enough PA that they will be pretty darn good.

Plus the hope is always that we have enough researchers to go through and learn about the young guns coming up as soon as possible and have them in the game....in a realistic fashion. Not too horrible, not too great.

The recreation of the superstars (which is why the guys who have retired are no longer left in the game) makes the game way too easy and too unbalanced....the SUPER DRAFTS became ridiculous. It is not as though Manimal and archi went totally opposite to that and have made the regens on the way through completely useless. They are still going to be top level players when they come around.

pantsukki wrote:if Selänne, Jagr and others retire at the end of the first season (usually not, as they seem to spend one more year as a free agent despite not wanting to sign for anyone), their regens won't be available for drafting for a few years. But when their regens become available, aren't they supposed to be the best prospects available?

No, they're not supposed to be the best prospects available.
Those players with a 180-200 PA at start-up will regen into the "best available prospects" when they retire (i.e. current stars and upcoming stars).

IMO the issue of "is there enough talent at the different talent levels" has little to do with inflated PAs for stars who long ago played their best season.
There might be a need to increase the usage of some of the variable PAs (wouldn't the game be better to play with additional PAs of -8, -9, -10 and -15 PAs if necessary rather than creating easily identifiable regens?)

At present Jagr, Iginla and Selanne have PAs of 155, 165 and 175. So that places them in the upper end of the NHL ability range (once the CAs have been sorted out, this should place them within roughly the top 25% of NHL talent). Bearing in mind that they won't be the only players to retire in any given season and, theoretically, we should have the prospects for the first few drafts already in the DB, we should a decent spread of PAs (also keeping in mind that not every player drafted ends up playing the NHL - e.g. of the 2,600 NHL players drafted between 1990 and 1999, only 19% had played 200+ games as of 2007).

If you start pushing their PAs up then you run into two problems:

1) These players who are already at the peak (or past their peak) will start improving beyond where they should be at their age; and
2) You'll end up with over-powered regens and therefore over-powered drafts.

The better solution is to ensure that we have enough prospects in the DB with reasonable PAs. This would ensure realistic drafts and, once those players have been drafted, there should be enough regens of all levels/talents for future drafts. But this of course is dependent on researchers adding and rating prospects in the DB. Sorry to keep harking on about this, but this is another reason why we need more users to volunteer and help with the DB work.