EHM The Blue Line

is it better in ehm to get playing into the nhl as soon as they can handle it or it is better to let them develop in the ahl where they will be a star on the team?

i am asking because i am in a situation where i have a young player (20) who has a 126 CA. he could play 4th line nhl for me or first line ahl. which is better for development? or does it not really matter?

Youngsters need to play to develope. Being a 4th liner doesn't offer much ice time, so I'd say they should stay in the AHL. Until you get an opening on the top lines.

'' Unless the player is exceptionally talented, rookies will benefit from receiving fewer minutes earlier in their careers, as it allows them to get to grips with a new level before they can go on and hit their potential. An overdependence on rookies can stunt their development. ''

This is a statement that appears in the hints whenever the game loads.

I guess it can be argued as what should be better for a young player. Although this applies to a prospect that is on the edge of making the team of a certain league. I would't see a problem that he gets lots of ice time in the farm team of that league (one league level underneath)

I see quite often the AI teams will sign a 1st round pick and put them in the NHL before they are even ready for the AHL. Quite often rushing them ruins their development. I'll look at a 24 year old that was a former 1st round pick and his stats never really developed much because he was rushed. The AHL is for developing youngsters. The NHL is more about putting the finishing touches on their skills, at least thats kind of how I think of it.

I'll let you know in a few seasons who turns out best.
I have a huge mix of prospects on different lines, ones in the AHL, and ones that went back to juniors. Some are bouncing between NHL and AHL. Some may just not develope well. Perlini doesn't seem to have gone up, but other players on similar time have.

Let me guess: the guy with the most Professionalism and Ambition hidden attributes will turn out the best. But let us know, it's interesting.
However, in my tests I found that amount of playing time and relative skill of opposition don't affect speed of player development. I've posted it in the Practice thread, I shouldn't repeat myself.

radiskull wrote:Let me guess: the guy with the most Professionalism and Ambition hidden attributes will turn out the best. But let us know, it's interesting.
However, in my tests I found that amount of playing time and relative skill of opposition don't affect speed of player development. I've posted it in the Practice thread, I shouldn't repeat myself.

That would be my guess! That it will make little difference where they play and how much but comes down to professionalism, ambition, determination, and work rate.
That said I can't check hidden attributes.

lemming3k wrote:I can't check hidden attributes

Does the EHM:EA Assistant show hidden Attributes? I think it might http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... t&start=50

lemming3k wrote:That would be my guess! That it will make little difference where they play and how much but comes down to professionalism, ambition, determination, and work rate.

I think there's others too, like Pressure, Important Matches, Natural Fitness, and Decisions...and Consistency has a significant impact on performance (and I don't think Professionalism is important enough to be in with the others listed)...and IMO among the visible Attribute Anticipation is very significant as well

nino33 wrote:

lemming3k wrote:I can't check hidden attributes

Does the EHM:EA Assistant show hidden Attributes? I think it might http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... t&start=50

It does, but I feel like scouts/genies are somewhat cheating, unless you're doing serious testing and I'm really just playing the game within its visible confines so haven't downloaded the Assistant.

I think there's others too, like Pressure, Important Matches, Natural Fitness, and Decisions...and Consistency has a significant impact on performance (and I don't think Professionalism is important enough to be in with the others listed)...and IMO among the visible Attribute Anticipation is very significant as well

I've never thought about some of those like Anticipation, Fitness, Decisions - I've no doubt they'll play better if those stats are high, but not certain they come into play for actual development, at least, I'm not sure logically it would make sense, perhaps for shooting or blocking so you could be right?
Pressure might help if there's some media expectation on them though.
I'll be keeping an eye out for any patterns in my players development though.

lemming3k wrote:

nino33 wrote:

lemming3k wrote:I can't check hidden attributes

Does the EHM:EA Assistant show hidden Attributes? I think it might http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... t&start=50

It does, but I feel like scouts/genies are somewhat cheating, unless you're doing serious testing and I'm really just playing the game within its visible confines so haven't downloaded the Assistant.

I totally understand/agree!

lemming3k wrote:

nino33 wrote:

I think there's others too, like Pressure, Important Matches, Natural Fitness, and Decisions...and Consistency has a significant impact on performance (and I don't think Professionalism is important enough to be in with the others listed)...and IMO among the visible Attribute Anticipation is very significant as well

I've never thought about some of those like Anticipation, Fitness, Decisions - I've no doubt they'll play better if those stats are high, but not certain they come into play for actual development, at least, I'm not sure logically it would make sense, perhaps for shooting or blocking so you could be right?
Pressure might help if there's some media expectation on them though.
I'll be keeping an eye out for any patterns in my players development though.

In general I think Anticipation really separates the top from the middle from the bottom, so significant differences in Anticipation will make a big impact (for example, what line a player may play on/PP time). Natural Fitness determines how quickly a player recovers from a fatigued state (again, significant differences will mean some players are usually playing at full strength and some are to often playing tired). Decisions affect a player's ability to make good offensive decisions with the puck (and again, good versus poor ratings are going to affect the line a player plays on and if they get PP time). I'd think what line you play on, whether you get PP time or not and whether you can handle the practice/game schedule and maintain your fitness would all affect how a player develops.....Pressure includes how a player handles the pressure of a higher team showing interest (i.e. how does he play in front of the Scouts?)

I did a lot of testing with EHM07, and determined which Attributes developed over time, which did not develop over time, and which rarely developed over time (and when they did, not by much).....for example, in EHM07 Anticipation rarely increased, and when it did it didn't increase much & Attributes like Consistency/Natural Fitness/Important Matches never increased, so the values of these Attributes was quite significant for a player - I have heard reports that with EHM:EA that indicate Attribute development maybe isn't the same as it was in EHM07 (Attributes that didn't develop before do now?), which makes sense as we know already that Riz has done/is doing a lot of work on player/Attribute development.....but we don't know the details/nuances yet!

AND now that I understand you're "playing" a game and not testing, I suspect you don't know which Player Role your players have been given?
The "new EHM" has a new feature, where players are given one of 47 different Player Roles...which of these Player Roles a player received is definitely going to affect development, in particular which Attributes develop the most.

nino33 wrote:In general I think Anticipation really separates the top from the middle from the bottom, so significant differences in Anticipation will make a big impact (for example, what line a player may play on/PP time). Natural Fitness determines how quickly a player recovers from a fatigued state (again, significant differences will mean some players are usually playing at full strength and some are to often playing tired). Decisions affect a player's ability to make good offensive decisions with the puck (and again, good versus poor ratings are going to affect the line a player plays on and if they get PP time). I'd think what line you play on, whether you get PP time or not and whether you can handle the practice/game schedule and maintain your fitness would all affect how a player develops.....Pressure includes how a player handles the pressure of a higher team showing interest (i.e. how does he play in front of the Scouts?)

I did a lot of testing with EHM07, and determined which Attributes developed over time, which did not develop over time, and which rarely developed over time (and when they did, not by much).....for example, in EHM07 Anticipation rarely increased, and when it did it didn't increase much & Attributes like Consistency/Natural Fitness/Important Matches never increased, so the values of these Attributes was quite significant for a player - I have heard reports that with EHM:EA that indicate Attribute development maybe isn't the same as it was in EHM07 (Attributes that didn't develop before do now?), which makes sense as we know already that Riz has done/is doing a lot of work on player/Attribute development.....but we don't know the details/nuances yet!

AND now that I understand you're "playing" a game and not testing, I suspect you don't know which Player Role your players have been given?
The "new EHM" has a new feature, where players are given one of 47 different Player Roles...which of these Player Roles a player received is definitely going to affect development, in particular which Attributes develop the most.

You could be right that some mental attributes just don't develop, such as anticipation. I'm not sure anything develops particularly well though, it seems they go up a handful of points each year(I'm on 1-99 stats) and take a decade to get good, at which point they're close to dropping off due to age!
The AI ones seem to develop ok though, but I'm not sure why, my schedules are overall above average intensity but not so high that conditioning constantly drops below 100% and my coaches are the best I can get since you can't poach them from other teams!
You're right I can't see the player roles though. I'm more looking for anything increasing to some noticeable degree, especially my first couple lines or in the AHL.
I give lines 1+2 the PP, and mostly 3 on the PK (which we're on A LOT). Maybe I need to coach my AHL team as well though to see the best results. I don't really want to do that, but their schedules probably aren't great, even if the AI does improve players better!

lemming3k wrote:

nino33 wrote:In general I think Anticipation really separates the top from the middle from the bottom, so significant differences in Anticipation will make a big impact (for example, what line a player may play on/PP time). Natural Fitness determines how quickly a player recovers from a fatigued state (again, significant differences will mean some players are usually playing at full strength and some are to often playing tired). Decisions affect a player's ability to make good offensive decisions with the puck (and again, good versus poor ratings are going to affect the line a player plays on and if they get PP time). I'd think what line you play on, whether you get PP time or not and whether you can handle the practice/game schedule and maintain your fitness would all affect how a player develops.....Pressure includes how a player handles the pressure of a higher team showing interest (i.e. how does he play in front of the Scouts?)

I did a lot of testing with EHM07, and determined which Attributes developed over time, which did not develop over time, and which rarely developed over time (and when they did, not by much).....for example, in EHM07 Anticipation rarely increased, and when it did it didn't increase much & Attributes like Consistency/Natural Fitness/Important Matches never increased, so the values of these Attributes was quite significant for a player - I have heard reports that with EHM:EA that indicate Attribute development maybe isn't the same as it was in EHM07 (Attributes that didn't develop before do now?), which makes sense as we know already that Riz has done/is doing a lot of work on player/Attribute development.....but we don't know the details/nuances yet!

AND now that I understand you're "playing" a game and not testing, I suspect you don't know which Player Role your players have been given?
The "new EHM" has a new feature, where players are given one of 47 different Player Roles...which of these Player Roles a player received is definitely going to affect development, in particular which Attributes develop the most.

You could be right that some mental attributes just don't develop, such as anticipation. I'm not sure anything develops particularly well though, it seems they go up a handful of points each year(I'm on 1-99 stats) and take a decade to get good, at which point they're close to dropping off due to age!
The AI ones seem to develop ok though, but I'm not sure why, my schedules are overall above average intensity but not so high that conditioning constantly drops below 100% and my coaches are the best I can get since you can't poach them from other teams!
You're right I can't see the player roles though. I'm more looking for anything increasing to some noticeable degree, especially my first couple lines or in the AHL.
I give lines 1+2 the PP, and mostly 3 on the PK (which we're on A LOT). Maybe I need to coach my AHL team as well though to see the best results. I don't really want to do that, but their schedules probably aren't great, even if the AI does improve players better!

I can see problems with anticipation or creativity etc. not developing as very few young (under 20) has any high stats in the mental-side. I've been testing and keeping eye on my players how they develop with the assistant-tool, the CA goes up in short bursts, looks to me like it goes up in summer, which makes sense.

I think only flair and maybe determination should be stats which doesn't go up/down.

helpie wrote:I can see problems with anticipation or creativity etc. not developing as very few young (under 20) has any high stats in the mental-side. I've been testing and keeping eye on my players how they develop with the assistant-tool, the CA goes up in short bursts, looks to me like it goes up in summer, which makes sense.

I think only flair and maybe determination should be stats which doesn't go up/down.

The only mental attribute I've seen change is Teamwork. Looking through my D which were all 1-2 potential, even the ones on the top 2 lines getting plenty of time are now dropping to 3-4 talents at best. I'm not seeing much development at all.

MAny of the mental attributes in the past have not changed over time. Riz had a reason for setting them as solid. I have seen teamwork, anticipation, work rate (I think) and something else change but it rarely happens. At least in old game. I believe there was a note somewhere that in EA there is a chance for some of these to change.

batdad wrote:MAny of the mental attributes in the past have not changed over time. Riz had a reason for setting them as solid. I have seen teamwork, anticipation, work rate (I think) and something else change but it rarely happens. At least in old game. I believe there was a note somewhere that in EA there is a chance for some of these to change.

I wonder what was the reason because creativity, anticipation, bravery etc. can certainly be trained to the players in real life. The problem IMO is with them being static is that due the low CA in young players mental skills can't be high and they can't be trained to be higher, so chance to get someone new with very high creativity, anticipation, etc is practically non existant.

helpie wrote:I can see problems with anticipation or creativity etc. not developing as very few young (under 20) has any high stats in the mental-side. I've been testing and keeping eye on my players how they develop with the assistant-tool, the CA goes up in short bursts, looks to me like it goes up in summer, which makes sense.

I think only flair and maybe determination should be stats which doesn't go up/down.

The following attributes do not change or change only in rare circumstances:

Staff attributes:
Adaptability
Ambition
Determination (I have seen it change once)
Loyalty
Pressure
Professionalism
Sportsmanship
Temperament

Player attributes:
Aggression
Consistency
Dirtiness
Flair
Important Matches
Pass Tendency
Injury Proneness
Agitation

Non-player attributes:
Attacking
Directness
Free Roles
Line Matching
Tactical Knowledge
Physical

A9L3E wrote:The following attributes do not change or change only in rare circumstances...

What's this based on? testing using EHM:EA?

Yes. I created a player with 1 CA and put all the attributes to 20. Only those were maxed out when I started a game.

nino33 wrote:What's this based on? testing using EHM:EA?

A9L3E wrote:Yes. I created a player with 1 CA and put all the attributes to 20. Only those were maxed out when I started a game.

Great! Did you try it with different Player Roles? how long was you test? how many players did you look at? age range?

I wonder if some Attributes will respond differently dependent on Player role, and I think some mental Atts are likely to change, if they change, later in a player's career

Only two player roles, and they did not have any effect. I only tested one age, though, but I have a feeling it does not have any effect to how many "attribute points" are available for the player, only the CA has. (With 1 CA, all the other attributes were at 3 or something like that.)

A9L3E wrote:Only two player roles, and they did not have any effect. I only tested one age, though, but I have a feeling it does not have any effect to how many "attribute points" are available for the player, only the CA has. (With 1 CA, all the other attributes were at 3 or something like that.)

Thanks for replying! I suspect the mental ones may not really develop until a player is in his late 20s or early 30s.....and for D they're supposed to "develop later" so maybe we'd see the increases in their Technical Attributes (like Positioning, Pokecheck, Checking) moreso in their mid/late 20s.....in general I believe the idea is it's the Physical Atts that develop first, then Technical, and then Mental

Have you tried the opposite? i.e. 200 CA and all Attributes at 1

nino33 wrote:Have you tried the opposite? i.e. 200 CA and all Attributes at 1

Not yet, though the idea seems interesting.

A9L3E wrote:

nino33 wrote:Have you tried the opposite? i.e. 200 CA and all Attributes at 1

Not yet, though the idea seems interesting.

I'd be grateful if you could if you have the time

Knowing which Attributes develop/change over time and which are unchanging over the years is critical info IMO
And knowing how the game seems to distribute Attributes given certain CAs is very helpful too

Understandable if you don't have the time, but if you do look into it at all please post what you find. Thanks!

nino33 wrote: AND now that I understand you're "playing" a game and not testing, I suspect you don't know which Player Role your players have been given?
The "new EHM" has a new feature, where players are given one of 47 different Player Roles...which of these Player Roles a player received is definitely going to affect development, in particular which Attributes develop the most.

That roles feature is like a "hidden attribute" that is in data base?

Zrnkichi wrote:

nino33 wrote: AND now that I understand you're "playing" a game and not testing, I suspect you don't know which Player Role your players have been given?
The "new EHM" has a new feature, where players are given one of 47 different Player Roles...which of these Player Roles a player received is definitely going to affect development, in particular which Attributes develop the most.

That roles feature is like a "hidden attribute" that is in data base?

Yes