testing data - NHL forwards Attributes 2018/2050

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nino33
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testing data - NHL forwards Attributes 2018/2050

Post by nino33 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:59 am

Greetings!

While compiling data for some recent Player Role/Attribute testing I've been doing https://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/v ... 6&start=50 I got more and more curious about
• Attributes and their range (lowest/highest)
• Attributes and the frequency of players getting “low” Attribute values (under 10) and the frequency of getting “high” Attribute values (16-20)

What follows is from my test save using TBL 11.2, comparing the results from 2018 (startup) and in 2050

I took a look at the top 372 forwards in the NHL by CA (12 forwards x 31 teams = 372 forwards). Very late in the data compiling process I discovered that for 2050 I had accidentally included 6 defensive finesse defensemen, but I decided not to redo anything as I don’t think the small number significantly affects the results

What is evident is with the game created values in 2050 (when any human inputted values are long gone) there are some really significant differences in the frequency of lower/higher Attribute values compared to startup


As mentioned, I sorted by CA to get the top 372 forwards in the NHL. Here’s a list of the number of players for the different Player Roles. The first number is how many in 2018 and the second number is how many in 2050

All-Around 70 – 53
Defensive 14 – 12
Defensive Finesse 12 – 7
Defensive Physical 15 – 8
Finesse 30 – 46
Grinder 12 – 9
Playmaker 44 – 53
Playmaker Finesse 59 – 49
Playmaker Physical 7 – 11
Power Forward 45 – 30
Sniper 26 – 46
Sniper Finesse 25 – 23
Sniper Physical 11 – 19
Enforcer 2 – 0

And here's the some basic data on the two groups
  • the 2018 players had a 141.5 CA avg (126-190 range) and a 146.8 PA avg (126-198 range)
  • the 2050 players had a 148.7 CA avg (128-198 range) and a 156.5 PA avg (135-198 range)
  • the CA avg was higher in 2050!


And here's the table of data...
  • columns 3 and 4 show the Attribute range...for many Attributes the 2050 lowest range is often all the way down to 1 (or 2-3) where 2018 is significantly higher
  • the percentage with a value below 10 is what columns 5 and 6 show; for many Attributes the amount of players with a value below 10 is significantly more in 2050 compared to 2018
  • columns 8 and 9 show the percentage of NHL with an Attribute value above 15; for most Attributes the number of players in this range is greater in 2050 than in 2016, in some cases much greater (though it's the opposite with Determination, Flair, Agility and Natural Fitness)
    2018 avg 2050 avg 2018 range 2050 range 2018 % below 10 2050 % below 10 2050 - 2018 = 2018 % 16-20 2050 % 16-20 2050 - 2018 =
    Def Role 12.7 11.8 6-18 2-20 7.5% 25.3% 17.8% 9.7% 13.4% 3.7%
    Off Role 15.5 16.0 7-20 2-20 0.3% 6.7% 6.4% 53.2% 68.3% 15.1%
    Adaptability 11.7 11.5 5-18 1-20 12.1% 38.7% 26.6% 3.0% 25.0% 22.0%
    Ambition 13.8 13.1 6-20 3-20 1.1% 24.5% 23.4% 20.2% 30.1% 9.9%
    Determination 15.0 11.8 9-20 1-20 0.5% 31.7% 31.2% 37.1% 23.7% -13.4%
    Loyalty 13.2 11.3 6-20 1-20 3.0% 36.6% 33.6% 13.7% 21.8% 8.1%
    Pressure 13.1 11.8 6-20 1-20 4.8% 29.0% 24.2% 10.5% 19.9% 9.4%
    Professionalism 13.1 12.1 4-18 2-20 5.1% 31.5% 26.4% 12.6% 21.5% 8.9%
    Sportsmanship 13.3 12.3 3-20 1-20 14.0% 30.4% 16.4% 22.6% 29.6% 7.0%
    Temperament 14.1 14.4 4-18 1-20 33.6% 32.8% -0.8% 9.4% 18.3% 8.9%
    2018 avg 2050 avg 2018 range 2050 range 2018 % below 10 2050 % below 10 2050 - 2018 = 2018 % 16-20 2050 % 16-20 2050 - 2018 =
    AGGRESSION 10.2 4.4 1-18 1-20 47.3% 89.5% 42.2% 5.1% 3.0% -2.1%
    ANTICIPATION 13.1 13.7 7-20 1-20 6.2% 10.5% 4.3% 14.0% 16.7% 2.7%
    BRAVERY 12.3 13.0 6-18 1-20 18.0% 17.2% -0.8% 10.8% 27.4% 16.6%
    Consistency 11.9 10.5 7-18 2-20 15.3% 43.5% 28.2% 4.8% 13.7% 8.9%
    Decisions 12.6 10.1 6-18 2-20 9.1% 44.1% 35.0% 9.4% 5.1% -4.3%
    Dirtiness 7.1 10.5 2-17 1-20 80.4% 42.7% -37.7% 1.1% 16.7% 15.6%
    FLAIR 13.2 9.3 6-20 1-20 15.3% 52.4% 37.1% 26.9% 8.3% -18.6%
    Important Matches 11.6 13.8 6-18 1-20 19.1% 9.9% -9.2% 5.4% 30.1% 24.7%
    INFLUENCE/LEADERSHIP 11.9 13.9 5-20 1-20 28.2% 4.3% -23.9% 16.1% 26.6% 10.5%
    Pass Tendency 11.2 9.2 7-15 1-20 15.3% 50.4% 35.1% 0.0% 12.6% 12.6%
    TEAMWORK 14.5 13.8 8-20 3-20 0.8% 11.3% 10.5% 26.0% 34.4% 8.4%
    VISION/CREATIVITY 13.0 13.5 6-20 1-20 12.9% 11.8% -1.1% 19.1% 27.7% 8.6%
    WORK RATE 15.1 14.5 9-20 2-20 0.3% 7.5% 7.2% 41.9% 41.7% -0.2%

    2018 avg 2050 avg 2018 range 2050 range 2018 % below 10 2050 % below 10 2050 - 2018 = 2018 % 16-20 2050 % 16-20 2050 - 2018 =
    ACCELERATION 13.4 14.4 6-20 5-20 4.0% 11.6% 7.5% 14.0% 44.9% 30.9%
    AGILITY 13.3 9.2 8-20 3-16 4.0% 53.0% 48.9% 13.2% 0.5% -12.6%
    BALANCE 12.2 10.1 7-17 5-20 6.7% 54.8% 48.1% 3.0% 7.3% 4.3%
    Fighting 7.0 9.5 1-19 5-20 80.6% 62.6% -18.0% 3.0% 7.8% 4.8%
    HITTING 10.8 10.2 3-20 3-20 42.5% 55.9% 13.4% 11.0% 15.6% 4.6%
    Injury Proneness 7.6 10.2 2-18 1-20 78.2% 42.7% -35.5% 1.1% 15.1% 14.0%
    Natural Fitness 13.4 9.5 7-20 2-15 3.5% 50.3% 46.8% 18.0% 0.0% -18.0%
    SPEED 13.5 14.6 7-20 5-20 2.4% 12.1% 9.7% 11.6% 46.0% 34.4%
    STAMINA 13.3 15.3 7-18 6-20 3.2% 2.4% -0.8% 15.9% 53.8% 37.9%
    STRENGTH 11.4 10.2 5-19 2-20 27.2% 52.2% 25.0% 5.6% 13.2% 7.5%
    Agitation 7.3 10.4 1-19 1-20 81.2% 41.1% -40.1% 2.7% 13.2% 10.5%
    2018 avg 2050 avg 2018 range 2050 range 2018 % below 10 2050 % below 10 2050 - 2018 = 2018 % 16-20 2050 % 16-20 2050 - 2018 =
    CHECKING 13.2 11.3 5-20 3-20 9.1% 41.7% 32.5% 15.9% 19.6% 3.8%
    DEFLECTIONS 11.7 15.9 6-18 8-20 17.7% 1.9% -15.9% 5.1% 55.9% 50.8%
    DEKING 13.2 15.8 3-20 7-20 8.1% 3.0% -5.1% 18.8% 57.0% 38.2%
    FACEOFFS 10.8 12.2 4-18 1-20 39.5% 44.9% 5.4% 5.6% 38.7% 33.1%
    MOVEMENT/OFF-THE-PUCK 12.5 16.4 6-20 5-20 13.2% 4.3% -8.9% 9.9% 69.1% 59.1%
    PASSING 14.4 14.8 11-20 7-20 0.0% 1.6% 1.6% 25.5% 38.2% 12.6%
    POKECHECK 13.3 10.0 4-20 4-20 5.6% 48.1% 42.5% 13.2% 7.5% -5.6%
    POSITIONING 11.6 13.0 6-19 4-20 21.5% 16.4% -5.1% 5.1% 25.5% 20.4%
    SLAPSHOT 12.5 13.5 7-20 5-20 4.6% 9.4% 4.8% 6.5% 27.2% 20.7%
    STICKHANDLING 13.8 13.4 8-20 7-20 2.4% 5.1% 2.7% 20.7% 21.8% 1.1%
    Versatility 10.4 13.8 6-15 2-20 26.1% 5.6% -20.4% 0.0% 26.3% 26.3%
    WRISTSHOT 13.8 14.5 8-20 7-20 1.1% 3.8% 2.7% 17.7% 40.1% 22.3%

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testing data - NHL forwards Attributes 2018/2050

Post by nino33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:11 pm

FYI - there's an issue with the Temperament Attribute (below); some game created players and some database players (who have a "0" for Temperament) are receiving values in excess of 20 at startup. At first I thought it was an issue with the EHM Assistant not showing the Temperament data correctly, but I now know that's not the case.

I had adjusted the numbers to account for the 534 players who had a Temperament rating above 20 (534 total players, 67 with a CA above 100, 16 above 130) but now I now the adjustments I made are not correct. For example, column 4 was actually 4-23
Temperament 14.1 14.4 4-18 1-20 33.6% 32.8% -0.8% 9.4% 18.3% 8.9%


P.S. I'm assuming "game created players" too because I couldn't find some of who I looked for in the database (I just went though a couple/few dozen players though); with the various characters involved from other languages I'm not always sure name searches are 100% trustworthy (does what the Assistant shows/what the Editor shows always exactly match what shows ingame?)

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nino33
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testing data - NHL forwards Attributes 2018/2050

Post by nino33 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:16 am

Last month I posted some testing results (above) using TBL 11.2
This quote gives a basic overview of what I did
nino33 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:59 am
What follows is from my test save using TBL 11.2, comparing the results from 2018 (startup) and in 2050

I took a look at the top 372 forwards in the NHL by CA (12 forwards x 31 teams = 372 forwards). Very late in the data compiling process I discovered that for 2050 I had accidentally included 6 defensive finesse defensemen, but I decided not to redo anything as I don’t think the small number significantly affects the results

I did the same thing for my testing using ECK 3.2
Here's the results...


2018 avg 2049 avg 2018 range 2049 range 2018 % below 10 2049 % below 10 2049 - 2018 = 2018 % 16-20 2049 % 16-20 2049 - 2018 =
Def Role 13.3 13.5 6-20 3-20 3.2% 7.8% 4.6% 16.7% 22.6% 5.9%
Off Role 16.0 16.5 10-20 6-20 0.0% 2.2% 2.2% 66.4% 73.9% 7.5%
Adaptability 11.9 12.8 2-28 1-20 12.1% 24.2% 12.1% 4.0% 29.6% 25.5%
Ambition 13.5 14.4 6-20 4-20 2.7% 12.6% 9.9% 14.2% 44.9% 30.6%
Determination 14.8 13.1 6-20 1-20 0.5% 18.8% 18.3% 33.3% 32.3% -1.1%
Loyalty 13.2 12.1 2-20 1-20 2.4% 29.3% 26.9% 15.6% 26.9% 11.3%
Pressure 12.8 12.9 4-20 3-20 5.4% 20.7% 15.3% 7.5% 26.9% 19.4%
Professionalism 12.7 13.2 5-20 4-20 8.1% 18.8% 10.8% 8.9% 31.2% 22.3%
Sportsmanship 13.1 13.3 5-20 1-20 12.9% 21.5% 8.6% 20.7% 36.6% 15.9%
2018 avg 2049 avg 2018 range 2049 range 2018 % below 10 2049 % below 10 2049 - 2018 = 2018 % 16-20 2049 % 16-20 2049 - 2018 =
AGGRESSION 10.4 7.0 4-20 1-20 43.0% 68.5% 25.5% 4.8% 10.2% 5.4%
ANTICIPATION 13.9 14.0 7-20 4-20 1.1% 5.6% 4.6% 18.3% 32.8% 14.5%
BRAVERY 13.2 13.4 6-20 2-20 6.7% 16.7% 9.9% 17.2% 30.9% 13.7%
Consistency 13.3 11.6 6-18 3-20 3.0% 25.3% 22.3% 12.4% 14.2% 1.9%
Decisions 13.5 12.0 7-20 5-20 4.8% 15.9% 11.0% 14.5% 16.1% 1.6%
Dirtiness 6.9 9.9 2-20 1-20 82.8% 47.6% -35.2% 1.6% 11.6% 9.9%
FLAIR 13.4 11.0 6-20 1-20 11.8% 41.7% 29.8% 27.2% 18.8% -8.3%
Important Matches 12.3 14.7 7-20 5-20 12.6% 3.8% -8.9% 9.1% 41.1% 32.0%
INFLUENCE/LEADERSHIP 12.3 13.5 6-20 1-20 19.9% 14.0% -5.9% 16.4% 35.8% 19.4%
Pass Tendency 9.4 9.7 3-17 1-20 62.4% 47.6% -14.8% 4.3% 13.4% 9.1%
TEAMWORK 15.0 14.7 11-20 1-20 0.0% 1.9% 1.9% 33.6% 40.3% 6.7%
VISION/CREATIVITY 14.0 14.1 7-20 6-20 5.4% 8.6% 3.2% 29.3% 34.1% 4.8%
WORK RATE 15.4 15.1 10-20 6-20 0.0% 4.6% 4.6% 47.6% 47.8% 0.3%

2018 avg 2049 avg 2018 range 2049 range 2018 % below 10 2049 % below 10 2049 - 2018 = 2018 % 16-20 2049 % 16-20 2049 - 2018 =
ACCELERATION 14.3 15.9 8-20 5-20 1.1% 7.3% 6.2% 27.4% 63.2% 35.8%
AGILITY 14.1 10.6 8-20 5-18 2.4% 33.6% 31.2% 27.2% 3.0% -24.2%
BALANCE 13.0 11.4 9-18 5-20 1.1% 25.0% 23.9% 7.8% 11.6% 3.8%
Fighting 6.5 10.2 1-17 4-20 83.9% 50.0% -33.9% 2.2% 11.8% 9.7%
HITTING 10.9 11.1 3-20 4-20 36.3% 39.5% 3.2% 8.9% 16.4% 7.5%
Injury Proneness 7.6 9.2 2-19 1-20 77.2% 53.2% -23.9% 1.3% 11.8% 10.5%
Natural Fitness 14.0 11.7 6-20 3-20 2.2% 24.7% 22.6% 25.8% 12.4% -13.4%
SPEED 14.4 16.0 9-20 5-20 0.8% 6.2% 5.4% 27.7% 62.9% 35.2%
STAMINA 13.9 17.1 7-20 9-20 1.6% 0.3% -1.3% 21.5% 76.3% 54.8%
STRENGTH 12.6 12.1 6-19 5-20 11.0% 29.0% 18.0% 15.9% 22.6% 6.7%
Agitation 7.4 9.8 1-18 1-20 80.6% 42.2% -38.4% 2.4% 9.7% 7.3%
2018 avg 2049 avg 2018 range 2049 range 2018 % below 10 2049 % below 10 2049 - 2018 = 2018 % 16-20 2049 % 16-20 2049 - 2018 =
CHECKING 13.0 11.7 7-20 4-20 8.3% 35.5% 27.2% 15.3% 22.6% 7.3%
DEFLECTIONS 11.3 16.2 5-20 9-20 27.4% 2.2% -25.3% 7.0% 59.4% 52.4%
DEKING 12.6 15.3 4-20 6-20 18.5% 10.5% -8.1% 19.9% 52.4% 32.5%
FACEOFFS 10.5 12.8 3-20 4-20 45.2% 40.1% -5.1% 7.3% 38.4% 31.2%
MOVEMENT/OFF-THE-PUCK 12.4 16.8 6-20 9-20 15.3% 0.3% -15.1% 9.9% 69.6% 59.7%
PASSING 14.0 15.2 9-20 6-20 0.5% 2.7% 2.2% 26.3% 46.2% 19.9%
POKECHECK 13.4 10.4 6-20 2-20 3.0% 37.9% 34.9% 12.9% 6.2% -6.7%
POSITIONING 12.7 14.1 6-20 4-20 8.6% 12.6% 4.0% 7.8% 39.2% 31.5%
SLAPSHOT 11.4 14.0 5-20 7-20 20.4% 7.0% -13.4% 2.7% 30.6% 28.0%
STICKHANDLING 13.6 14.2 7-20 6-20 5.6% 5.1% -0.5% 24.5% 31.5% 7.0%
Versatility 10.2 14.6 5-15 3-20 33.1% 5.1% -28.0% 0.0% 46.8% 46.8%
WRISTSHOT 13.5 14.8 7-20 7-20 4.8% 5.1% 0.3% 20.7% 41.7% 21.0%



here's the some basic data on the two groups
  • the 2018 players had a 142.5 CA avg (116-196 range) and a 150.4 PA avg (116-200 range)
  • the 2050 players had a 159.0 CA avg (127-198 range) and a 166.1 PA avg (140-200 range)
  • the CA avg was much higher in 2050 (and the CA/PA averages are all higher in ECK, especially the future CA average)

Here's a reminder of what it was with TBL 11.2
nino33 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:59 am
And here's the some basic data on the two groups
  • the 2018 players had a 141.5 CA avg (126-190 range) and a 146.8 PA avg (126-198 range)
  • the 2050 players had a 148.7 CA avg (128-198 range) and a 156.5 PA avg (135-198 range)
  • the CA avg was higher in 2050!

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nino33
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testing data - NHL forwards Attributes 2018/2050

Post by nino33 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:22 am

nino33 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:59 am
What is evident is with the game created values in 2050 (when any human inputted values are long gone) there are some really significant differences in the frequency of lower/higher Attribute values compared to startup
Here's the Attributes where the AI is significantly (5 or more) lower than the human entered values, from the TBL data above
Defensive Role
Offensive Role
Determination
Loyalty
Pressure
Anticipation
Bravery
Consistency
Flair
Important Matches
Pass Tendency (hmm...that's interesting)
Teamwork
Vision/Creativity
Work Rate
Agility
Natural Fitness


I do wish that such high CA players did not get such extremely low ratings (ratings that human researchers don't give)
The ones that I think would have the most impact are
  • the Offensive/Defensive Roles
  • Determination, Anticipation, Work Rate (all visible ingame too)
  • maybe/probably Consistency too




All thoughts/comments/feedback is welcome and appreciated!

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