EHM The Blue Line

Archi,

Is there a way to edit the database using 0-100 attributes? This would make working on historical databases much easier as we can copy ratings from games like EA NHL.

xECK29x wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:39 am Archi,

Is there a way to edit the database using 0-100 attributes? This would make working on historical databases much easier as we can copy ratings from games like EA NHL.
Top

Does it mean we could only play historical DB with alternative attributes ? I am asking because I prefer 1-20 ratings...

xECK29x wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:39 amIs there a way to edit the database using 0-100 attributes? This would make working on historical databases much easier as we can copy ratings from games like EA NHL.

I'm wonder how this would work given the rating systems seem really different..

Given OVR in EA is 1-100 and CA in EHM is 1-200 one could just double the EA rating, and for Attributes divide the 1-20 EA rating by 5 to get the EHM 1-20 rating...

For a couple examples of how this would look, I took a look at EA ratings https://www.ea.com/games/nhl/nhl-20/ratings and compared them with ratings in EHM...

Dylan Larkin OVR EA 176 EHM 164 - ranked at #50, tied at #42 in EA (with 8 other players), tied at #82 in EHM (with 33 other players)
Deking EA 18 EHM (Stickhandling) 14
Passing EA 18 (17.8) EHM 15

Phil Kessel OVR EA 176 EHM 154 - ranked at #43, tied at #42 in EA (with 8 other players), tied at #193 in EHM (with 51 other players)
Except Fighting (at 15!), Kessel’s Attribute ratings in EA are all 17-19
In EA Kessel has a Defensive Awareness of 18 (17.6), in EHM he has a Defensive Role of 8
In EA Kessel has a FaceOff ability of 18 (17.6), in EHM he has a FaceOff ability of 9
In EA Stick Checking is rated an 18 (17.8), in EHM he has a Pokecheck of 13


Looking at the EA ratings of their top 50 players it seems all players are rated 17-19 in pretty much all Attributes


P.S. Another factor here is how EHM will change Attributes at startup if they're to far out of an acceptable range. Making a bunch of edits that doesn't fit with EHM will only result in the game changing those edits anyways (I haven't looked at any modern roster closely in recent years, but in the past it seemed to me it was only CJ that had it figured out and thus didn't get his ratings changed. I did notice in the testing I did earlier this summer showed the prospect generator's future prospects ratings being changed by the game)

Filip Croatia wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:27 am Does it mean we could only play historical DB with alternative attributes ? I am asking because I prefer 1-20 ratings...

Regardless of database used (or how it was rated), you can choose within the game (Preferences at the bottom of the opening screen) how attributes display: 1-20, 1-100, and hidden are the options available

nino33 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:19 pm Given OVR in EA is 1-100 and CA in EHM is 1-200 one could just double the EA rating, and for Attributes divide the 1-20 EA rating by 5 to get the EHM 1-20 rating...

That's exactly what we are thinking, it's a good starting point for us to get things populated then we can tweak from there.

nino33 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:19 pm P.S. Another factor here is how EHM will change Attributes at startup if they're to far out of an acceptable range. Making a bunch of edits that doesn't fit with EHM will only result in the game changing those edits anyways (I haven't looked at any modern roster closely in recent years, but in the past it seemed to me it was only CJ that had it figured out and thus didn't get his ratings changed. I did notice in the testing I did earlier this summer showed the prospect generator's future prospects ratings being changed by the game)

Yes the game will trim or adjust players based on CA and player type. Example if you try to set a player at a 130 CA Sniper but give him 20s everywhere the game will lower all the non-critical values for that player type until the calculation matches the CA, so the game may auto-adjust the bloated EA values.

xECK29x wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:47 pm That's exactly what we are thinking, it's a good starting point for us to get things populated then we can tweak from there.

xECK29x wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:47 pmYes the game will trim or adjust players based on CA and player type. Example if you try to set a player at a 130 CA Sniper but give him 20s everywhere the game will lower all the non-critical values for that player type until the calculation matches the CA, so the game may auto-adjust the bloated EA values.

And the game's edits often use the full 1-20 range when a human researcher wouldn't, and "non-critical values" often include values that many people playing feel are at the least very important HaHa


P.S. I don't know what it's like in terms of how the game adjusts Attribute values for adult players, but it can be very surprising when looking at what it does for young players just starting out (just entering the game). One example, from my testing earlier this year viewtopic.php?p=242546#p242546 - for the center position, Physical Defensive players & Enforcers start out as much faster skaters than skill players!

One thing that stood out to me is how the center's skating Attributes (especially Speed and Acceleration) can be significantly different at startup depending on Player Role
low/high range for Agility 10.1 - 12.8
low/high range for Balance 8.1 - 12.7
low/high range for Speed 3.1 – 12.6 (with all-around, defensive, defensive finesse, finesse, playmaker and sniper all starting at the low end, grinder in the middle, and defensive physical and enforcer at the high end!)
low/high range for Acceleration 3.2 - 12.7 (with all-around, defensive, defensive finesse, finesse, playmaker and sniper all starting at the low end, and defensive physical and enforcer at the high end!)


P.P.S. (said in Forrest Gump voice) "Archi, I'm sorry I talked about data editing in your EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor thread"

LOL at rating anything based on EA!

Edgars wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:57 pm LOL at rating anything based on EA!

Why's that?

xECK29x wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:39 am Archi,

Is there a way to edit the database using 0-100 attributes? This would make working on historical databases much easier as we can copy ratings from games like EA NHL.

From a database file perspective, we have to use the 1-20 scale. We can only use the 1-100 scale in saved games.

I could of course create a filter in the Editor which shows/edits attributes as 1-100 but all this would really do is divide/multiply by 5 in order to convert to/from the 1-20 range. So it would be more an optical illusion rather than actually saving any data to the database in 1-100 format. This might of course cause some confusion because you might enter a player's Passing as 34 (using the 1-100 range) which would then be saved to the database file as 6 (using the 1-20 range) but when you next reload the database it would appear as 30 on the 1-100 scale due to rounding (34/5 = 6 when rounding to the nearest whole number which is then converted back to the 1-100 range as 6*5 = 30).

nino33 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:57 pmP.P.S. (said in Forrest Gump voice) "Archi, I'm sorry I talked about data editing in your EHM 1 Database & Saved Game Editor thread"

This raises something I have been thinking about for a few weeks: I think we need to use separate threads for questions/etc in the Data Editing Forum as everything is being concentrated into just a handful of very large threads. I think we use the EHM Editor thread just for bug reports and feature requests. Anything else can go into individual threads.