EHM The Blue Line

Hello

Wow, there's so much I want to share.....I have a db for EHM07 that attempts to recreate pro hockey in 1974 if the NHL/WHA merged...I've spent well over 1000 hours on it thus far - it's not "ready for release" yet, but maybe something by the end of the year?...

Right now I have the 30 NHL teams done, the players for all 30 teams done (based on rosters from the 1974 Hockey News) , and part of the NHL staff done and I have the minors (AHL) populated and canadian major junior populated and (maybe best of all) I have "minor hockey" players populated to create the drafts from 1975 through to 1985.....Mario Lemieux starts as an 8 year old!

Here's a screen shot showing Lemieux, Brett Hull, Scott Stevens, Patrick Roy and others on their team at start up (note DOBs)
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... others.jpg

The very short version (for now) about the database is.....I started last fall with the great 1979-80 db that pens66 has done and added a lot to it (permission recieved from pens66 to use his work!)....I've created/maintained excel spreadsheets on all that I'm working with and all that I've done and am doing; I've got some helpful resources (Yearbooks/magazines/games from the era, complete years of the Hockey News weekly newspaper for 1974 and 1976...and more)...it's a labour of love that's currently on hold as I actually play some EHM! (Dallas Stars Challenge)

I'll write more real soon, including letting you know much more on what I've done (and how I've gone about doing it...yes I used the ShaddSheet as my main tool)...

Some editing questions I have that I want to ask the community........Has anyone figured out does height/weight "scale up" from mid to late teens to adulthood? (i.e. how big do I make my 8 year old future stars?).....Anyone tryed keeping russians/etc in their home country for awhile? Like lowering their World Reputation significantly, would that work?.....Anyone done anything with referee settings? (I have the refs from the era in name...wonderinng aboout settings.....I have an excel spreadsheet with all the players from all 30 NHL teams with all of their visible/hidden attributes...any thoughts on atttributes of the game and how to use them to make the best playable EHM players from the mid/late 1970s, the 1980s and the early 1990s?

I'll close with...here are the 30 NHL teams of EHM 1974 (talk of "why that team and not this one?" will have to occur at another time)

PACIFIC
Vancouver Canucks
Los Angeles Kings
San Diego Mariners
Phoenix Roadrunners
California Seals

CENTRAL
Chicago Blackhawks
St. Louis Blues
Cleveland Crusaders
Minnesota North Stars
Detroit Red Wings

NORTHEAST
Calgary Cowboys
Winnipeg Jets
Edmonton Oilers
Colorado Rockies
Seattle Totems


ATLANTIC
Boston Bruins
New York Islanders
New York Rangers
Buffalo Sabres
New England Whalers

NORTHEAST
Montreal Canadiens
Washington Capitals
Toronto Maple Leafs
Quebec Nordiques
Ottawa Senators

SOUTHEAST
Houston Aeros
Birmingham Bulls
Atlanta Fllames
Philadelphia Flyers
Pittsburgh Penguins

It sounds like an interesting project. I'd like to check it out when you're ready to release it.

Hopefully somebody else can answer your editing questions.

Some editing questions I have that I want to ask the community........Has anyone figured out does height/weight "scale up" from mid to late teens to adulthood? (i.e. how big do I make my 8 year old future stars?).....Anyone tryed keeping russians/etc in their home country for awhile? Like lowering their World Reputation significantly, would that work?.....Anyone done anything with referee settings? (I have the refs from the era in name...wonderinng aboout settings.....I have an excel spreadsheet with all the players from all 30 NHL teams with all of their visible/hidden attributes...any thoughts on atttributes of the game and how to use them to make the best playable EHM players from the mid/late 1970s, the 1980s and the early 1990s?

(1) Don't know about height/weight growth scale specifically, but it does go up and if he's 8 years old I'd set him just around or slightly above his projected 8-year old height. If you make them too tall they'll end up as 7 ft., I've seen that in some of the older dbs where people would usually pre-set heights of future players to where they are now and you'll end up with Tyler Seguin being 6'6 in his draft year .
(2) There's no real way to keep players in their home country for long periods of time unless you significantly reduce the budgets of NHL teams and lower their world reputation. If you reduce player's world reputation they'll stay until they compete in the Olympics/World Cup for a few years and build it up to where you'd expect it to be.
(3) Referee settings don't exist, you'll have to manually edit them. I'd lower all their 0-20 attributes by 2-3 and test it: the '70s had a lot less things called so that might be a decent start.
(4) I'm not sure about this. I never watched much '70s hockey: but the player depth back then was pretty bad. Perhaps lower the CAs and stats of mid-range players so that the upper tier players will do comparatively better.

Thanks very much for your feedback Midas!

RE #1 Thank you for the very helpful information!...I've already created most of the Leagues and Teams of "future stars", so at some point I will for sure be doing some testing/charting on this, and once done I will for sure post results on age and height/weight

RE #2 Again, helpful feedback.....I wonder if reducing NHL budgets/reputations might cause some NA players to choose to sign in Europe? AND has anyone done any actual testing with Reputation? What happens if you set it artificially high/low?....could one set a Crosby/Ovechkin type so high it takes years to come down enough that their team will trade them? It would be really nice (with historical databases at least) if you could set it so certain players stay with certain teams for awhile (to help create the right "feel"); and I wondered if this could be used in Challenges to increase allowable trading while still "control" trading as neccesary...

RE #3 I've done a lot of work with player/staff data in the Pre-Game Editor, but not so much work with the refs, and I didn't want to play around with ref attributes until AFTER I'd done a bunch of testing with the 1974 player attributes while leaving the refs alone and "modern" (makes it easier to review/compare testing results with the gameplay results posted by the Community, including data from Challenges!.....THEN I'll start playing around with attributes!
In the Pre-Game Editor refs have a CA and a PA and Reputation, and they have 7 specific Attributes: Allowing Interference, Allowing Roughness, Discipline. Important Matches, Pressure, Refereeing, and Skating Line. When testing I can see significantly reducing Allowing Interference and Allowing Roughness (in conjunction with Refereeing too I suspect, as I'm thinking/guessing that Refereeing is a general/overall skill rating...I think/guess).....anybody have any idea what Skating Line might be? Like the height/weight thing, this too will be the subject of my testing/charting, and once done I'll post results

RE #4 I'm comfortable with the general NHL player models (more about "player models" in the near future), but I'm very open on any insight on specific attributes that may.....play to big an effect in the game? not play enough of an effect in the game? bad attribute combinations, where to low/high produces an awful or unbeatable player? Is the hitting in the game "just right".....what attributes might be changed to reduce the unrealistically high amount of PIM a player can pick up over a season? I'm thinking there may be some veterans of EHM that might have some thoughts on this (or not)...

ANOTHER EDITING QUESTION Does anyone know anything about NHL Player Rights and age? Anybody tried to give their NHL team the next young star (while keeping them in junior) when they're still "underage" using the Pre-Game Editor and Rights?.....again for a historical database IMO it'd be helpful, if not overused (with a readme listing players affected by this, so users could make their own changes if they wanted). Bobby Orr was "signed" by the Boston bruins when he was 12, and the Draft was still relatively new in the mid 1970s..........Being able to give select very "young" players (6-17 years old) "NHL Rights" somehow would be something I'd like to do, as it It would allow me to do things like put Mike Bossy on the islanders and Wayne Gretzky on the Oilers while still starting in 1974 (with Bernie Parent at the top of his game in Philadelphia, Phil Esposito and Bobby Orr still in Boston, Gordie Howe in Houston, Bobby Hull in Winnipeg, Ken Dryden rejoining the Montreal Canadiens (Savatd, Lapoine, Robinson, Shutt, Lafleur) and the NY islanders building an all time team (Bossy, Trottier, Potvin) that would dominate the early 1980s...and the young Oilers, all REALLY YOUNG in their early teens playing minor hockey!...and more! )

I'm working on a summary of the 1974 db that i will soon be posting, so that we're all on the same page as the discussion carries forth...I've actually been thinking more and more about it lately after a number of weeks "off"......

Here's a couple openining day screen shots showing the NHL rosters of the Boston Bruins and Philadelphia Flyers
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... roster.jpg
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... roster.jpg

Regards

nino33 wrote:Has anyone figured out does height/weight "scale up" from mid to late teens to adulthood? (i.e. how big do I make my 8 year old future stars?)

This seems vary a lot between players, but this way you can get pretty close match:
1. Create player in pre-game. Save and exit
2. Open EHM and start a new game.. save and exit.
3. Open SG-editor and load saved file. Search created player and type projected height/weight. save and exit
4. Open EHM. Load saved game. Search created player. Check his height and weight (these should be numbers which you have to type in pre-game)
5. Open pre-game editor. Load db and type height and weight.

This sounds like a brilliant project. It's clear from all of the detail you're posting here that a lot of work and thought has gone into this. I hope you manage to pull this off and please do keep us updated. This reminds me of an old project by Sbufkle to create a WHA database: http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... =13&t=3574

I've been working on updating the ShaddSheet recently. I can send you a copy once it has been completed (hopefully by the end of this month). I've also got some other things I've developed which you might find helpful. I'll try and drop you a PM this weekend with more details.

Good luck.

Thanks Lazion, that was very helpful!
I've not used the Saved-Game Editor before (Lemieux was slated to reach 6' 7")

Thanks Archibalduk, I'd love an updated Shaddsheet.


A brief update
Since my last post I've been working on the summary/explanation AND EDITIING AGAIN!
I pretty much edit 1-3 hours every day, some days much more and occasionally a few days off (never more than a few days)...well it had been weeks since I had done any editing, but since my last post I've been editing around the clock! And then this morning I lost all my progress with a new way (to me) of losing work due to "file corruption"...or is it because of the old laptop I have to use to edit? Either way, grrr

BUT since I last posted I've been testing!
So cool...it really works! Issues of course, most expected/some not...and that's when I was bit again by the editing bug (I can fix that! LOL). So I spent 20+ hours adjusting the CA of all players in the AHL, Major Junior, and Minor Hockey (the extra young "future stars")...as well as the SEL, DEL, and the Russian Elite League! Cool eh! Shoulda saved it in dropbox...but I didn't.
In my test seasons, during Free Agency after the first year guys like Tretiak and Kharlamov were showing up in the NHL??? I figured out they had an "NHL Release Clause" AND I figured out I could change that by adjusting their Reputation in the Editor (new thing learned for me!)...but in all the excitement I got a little carried away and started pulling North American players/staff out of the SEL, DEL and Russian Elite League - turned out not to be a good idea...


BUT out of it came a renewed desire to edit, to "complete" the 1.0 version of the 1974 db...I expect to be able to share version 1.0 before the end of summer!Almost all of my editing since February has been exclusively on the NHL Rosters...a fresh look at the overall, big picture made me realize I can do this....I think it can be functional and immersive, and then others can help by giving valued feedback

So worst case scenario I'd share it as is.

Here's a very brief project status
- Currently NHL Rosters from 1974 "done"
- Currently over 300 historical players in the AHL, with the prep work done to add hundreds more (complete in version 2.0)
- Currently many historical players in Major Junior (hundreds?) + historical players in Minor Hockey (over 100 players in created Atom, Novice and PeeWee Leagues)
- Need to add Additional players to Minor Hockey leagues; add additional League (version 2.0)
- 1979-80 db Staff data (CA above 100), NHL Staff data, and historical staff data compiled using excel; basic NHL Staff data editing in progress
- Review/adjustment in progress of all players with CA 100+ AND also all players with a PA of 100+ and a CA of less than 100
- 1974 refs added (Ref Attribute Adjustment testing in progress)
- Further Team Information data review (version 2.0)
- Further review/adjustment of NA Staff (version 2.0)
- Obtain/add rosters for European Leagues (future version)

I think that's it...anyways, I'm into doing it! At least version 1.0 seems very doable...I'm on holidays, I have my classic hockey DVDs to have on in the background (last night the 1974 NHL/Russian Series, right now the 1982 King upset of the Oilers) - so I'll complete the draft and post the 1974 db summary/explanation ASAP, but know that the only reason for a delay is that I'm editing the actual db

I think I've died and gone to heaven

RE summary/explanatiom of 1974 db - change in plans

I won't be posting a "complete" summary/explanation in a single post, as when I started the draft a few days ago #1 I envisioned a few more months before a db release (and so explained/commented accordingly) AND #2 I have learned a great deal in the last few days of testing/editing that has significantly affected what I wrote/intended to write.....

So I'll be periodically posting with "bits and pieces" between editing sessions...


With "editing" I've been primarily working on three things this past week
1. Reducing "non historical" players worldwide to a CA/PA of (about) 100 max
2. Placing staff on NHL teams
3. Reviewing ages and if necessary moving "future stars" to their correct Leagues

The search functionality in the Pre-Game Editor is IMO pretty good, and so the tasks are time consuming and tedious but not difficult to do (I usually sort "by League" + "Player' + CA 100-200 and then a second sort of CA 1-99/PA 100-200 and then finally a third sort looking specifically for players with a PA of -6 to -9 and another sort looking for -13 to -15)...RE STAFF a number of months ago I made all NHL staff free agents, and started creating/placing historical staff, and at this point most every NHL team has at least a handful of historical staff (usually a GM and Head Coach for sure). This is one of the challenging areas of this project, as most teams simply didn't have anywhere near as many staff as they have today (few teams had even one Assistant Coach)...


With "testing" I've primarily been working on two things this last week
1. Keeping the Europeans in Europe!
2. Ensuring that created Leagues/Teams "work" for the extra young "future stars"

Here's a screen shot from some of the testing I've been doing showing Mario Lemieux's progression from an 8 year old (in the created Atom Minor Hockey League) to a 17 year old (in the QMJHL)
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... in2014.jpg


Back to editing.....talk to you soon!

Crikey the amount of work that is going into this is phenomenal!

Re the corrupt saved databases - I'd recommend making daily backups of your database just in case this happens again. I know Lidas and Manimal have lost large amounts of work before through corruption. If you archive your databases into ZIP files then they only take up roughly 6-7mb.

Have you thought about team logos for your rosters? I have a fairly large collection of good quality logos and so I'd happily create a 1974/75 logo pack for you (in between my work on the ShaddSheet).

I will not say no to help, and would love a complete logo set!
I did get some from B. Stinson to help me finalize a "mix and match" set (but I forgot to ask for Seattle Totems logos)....then looking at his logos that looked really good and all four sizes and - this is all kinda new to me and I was hesitant to ask (I really don't know how long things take)...but yes please to help!


This post is RE Why the particular teams selected for the NHL in the 1974 db

Because initially my intention was to create a 1976 db, because at the start of the IRL 1976-77 season there were exactly 30 pro teams in North America (18 NHL + 12 WHA).

Ultimately I decided on 1974 as the start year.
Both the NHL and WHA added two more teams in the summer of 1974, and at the start of the 1974-75 season IRL there were actually 32 NHL/WHA teams. To get back down to 30 I did not include the WHA expansion teams, and all the players that were on those teams in 1974 were “returned to where they came from”

The actual players on each roster are the exact same players that show on the first three weeks of rosters IRL in the 1974 Hockey News (I have the 1974 complete JAN – DEC year of Hockey News newspapers…also have the complete 1976-77 season).

Three additional factors influenced the decision on who the 30 teams are
#1 the (modern) Ottawa Senators are one of the team names because I couldn’t edit them out!
#2 I did not want two teams in the same city (I didn’t like the concept really + I didn’t want to have to deal with potential arena
selection/use issues in the db)
#3 I tried to put teams in their (geographical) Divisions in a reasonable/realistic manner

IMPORTANT – I did NOT include the Phoenix Roadrunners as a franchise I did use the Phoenix Roadrunners as a team name



Of the 30 NHL teams in the 1974 db 27 franchises are the same as IRL!
I had 3 franchises “move early” but they are the same franchise as IRL
- Rockies are the Kansas City Scouts (relocated in 1976 IRL)
- Cowboys are the Vancouver Blazers (relocated in 1975 IRL)
- Bulls are the Toronto Toros (relocated in 1976 IRL)

SAME – Oilers, Jets, Blackhawks, Crusaders, Blues, North Stars, Red Wings, Canucks, Kings, Mariners, Seals, Capitals, Canadiens, Maple Leafs, Nordiques, Bruins, Islanders, Rangers, Sabres, Whalers, Aeros, Flames, Flyers, Penguins + Cowboys, Rockies, and Bulls


Of the remaining 3 teams in the NHL in the 1974 db

The Seattle Totems roster/franchise is the IRL 1974-75 Chicago Cougars.
I didn’t want the Cougars (who folded at the end of the season) in Chicago with the Blackhawks already there + I needed a team in the Pacific Division and Seattle fit perfectly + my Hockey News’ actually talks about expectations of an NHL team being granted to Seattle!

The Phoenix Roadrunners roster/franchise is the IRL 1974-75 Minnesota Fighting Saints.
I didn’t want two teams in Minnesota + Phoenix was an acceptable fit in the Pacific Division. A reminder that these are NOT the IRL players of the 1974-75 Phoenix Roadrunners (in the db “the expansion draft never occurred” and the IRL 1974-75 Phoenix players are placed in the db where they finished the 1973-74 season).

The Ottawa Senators roster/franchise is the IRL 1974-75 Michigan Stags.
I couldn’t remove the “modern” Ottawa Senators franchise (EHM editing limitations) + IRL the Stags turned into the Baltimore Blades mid-season and then folded at the end of the season + Ottawa fit in with the Northeast Division


That's all for now...

nino33 wrote:I will not say no to help, and would love a complete logo set!
I did get some from B. Stinson to help me finalize a "mix and match" set (but I forgot to ask for Seattle Totems logos)....then looking at his logos that looked really good and all four sizes and - this is all kinda new to me and I was hesitant to ask (I really don't know how long things take)...but yes please to help!

Sure thing! Could you email to me the logos Brian did for you please: archibalduk [AT] gmail [DOT] com. That'll ensure I don't duplicate any of Brian's work.

B. Stinson (Brian) did 8 teams - the Calgary Cowboys, Cleveland Crusaders, San Diego Mariners, Phoenix Roadrunners,, Washington Capitals, California Seals, Houston Aeros and the Birmingham Bulls. There's a link to these logos at the bottom of page 26 of the "official logo request thread"

Some more background information...


What I’ve done is take the 1979-80 db that pens66 created and move it back 5 years to 1974
- some of the players the 1979-80 db had in the NHL stayed in the NHL (often changing teams)
- some of the players the 1979-80 db had in the NHL were moved back to major junior
- and some of the players in the 1979-80 database that were in major junior needed to be moved back to "minor hockey"
- and then I added/created all those players who were in the game but retired between 1974 and 1979


In doing all this I made excel spreadsheets of every relevant player…some spreadsheets were about CA/PA (and other Attributes) and some spreadsheets were about what team they were on in 1974/1976/1979, Shaddsheets were done for CA and PA, spreadsheets of all the drafts and spreadsheets of all the players by birth year (both these particular spreadsheets have links to further players details within the actual spreadsheets - used the HockeyReference site to make these), as well as spreadsheets with all the roster information pulled from the Hockey News, Hockey Yearbooks/Magazines (I have 8 different 1974 Yearbooks), and more!

I was able to list/review every NHL/AHL/ECHL/WHL/OHL/QMJHL player and Free Agents too…every player CA 80 and up (and every PA over 90 regardless of CA) - by doing it by CA/PA in the Editor I ended up reviewing all of the talent worldwide [also reviewed Team by Team, then by Free Agents, and then you need to actually search by -8 and -9 etc as otherwise these players can get missed. EXAMPLE Rich Tocchet has a -8 PA (meaning 130-160). but if you search by PA where the range is from 130 to 160 Rick Tocchet will NOT show up in the results, you have to search where the search range is from -8 to -8].


MULTIPLE REVIEWS – I’ve been using a system of multiple reviews, which is essentially “slow and steady wins the race”. I have not tried to completely edit a player (or even close to it) at any one time, but made multiple passes. For example DOB, Birthplace, Nationality are on one screen and were done in one pass…Team Contracted/Playing For/Salary are on another screen and were done another time...Height/Weight, Shooting Hand, Position, Interest in Offense/Defense and CA/PA were done another time (or two)…

That's it for now...

WOW What a huge and glorious undertaking... did I say wow yet? Not getting greedy or anything but how are you handling junior hockey and the ? There were a lot less teams in 1974 but I'd be quite happy leaving the teams as is so long as the teams that didn't exist back then like the Kamloops Blazers for example were given an competitive roster. While I mostly play the Canucks I always gm my farm teams as well and at least once a year I play a junior team, usually the aformentioned Blazers. A couple of problems with the 79-80 db is that there were a lot of modern minor leagers left in the game and also it was very easy to stock up on top Soviet talent and totally kick butt. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this db

Some relevant background information

When I first started this project last summer (with no real idea of what I was tackling other than it was a HUGE project), I was hoping for a “release” in the spring of this year, and then by the end of last year I was hoping for a release in the summer….and then I spent February/March until June of this year working on the NHL rosters pretty much exclusively (and kinda lost where I was at in the big picture)….and when I took my first real break in June I hadn’t really thought a “release” would occur before Christmas.

And then things changed in the last 10 days..…I did all of this editing on a 5 year old laptop (the last few months with no USB ports), and everything was a hassle to do and very time consuming…and then the power system died! Out of that and other circumstances came #1 a new laptop (good enough to test with!) and #2 a renewed sense of where I was at in the project (from the process of reviewing/transferring files) – that’s when I decided a late summer release was feasable (and it is for sure), but what I don’t know really is how much will get done this week…and next…and the week after that.

I estimate that when I started this project I spent 95% of the first three months just making spreadsheets (seriously…hundreds of hours just making spreadsheets; I knew the task was enormous but I also knew if I was to have any chance of actually accomplishing anything it IMO needed to be done this way). At this point right now, if I spent a little time reviewing spreadsheets, I could tell you exactly how many modern players there are that still need to be removed, how many players of the era need to have their ages adjusted and be moved to a different League, how many players need to be created to populate the AHL, etc…..the really great thing about doing a historical db is that it is NOT a moving target! Unlike the AWESOME work that Lidas/Manimal have done with the modern rosters, I don’t have to deal with a fresh batch of new stars/juniors/team moves/staffing changes/etc – the prep work I did last fall/winter I still use every day I edit now (and now I can spend close to 95% of my time editing)

Re editing of teams in the minors/major junior At this point the only “teams” that have been edited are the NHL teams, and that will not change for version 1.0 I find editing teams can be difficult for me and my time is currently better spent on other issues BUT I always intended on editing at least the AHL and some Major Junior (I myself wanted to see the New Westminster Bruins back in the WHL). I have Official Guides for the WHL/OHA for 1974-75 and had intended on using them as a resource for the Team/Staff data as well as for the “non-star” players. FYI I remember watching WHL games in Kamloops at the time (they were the Kamloops Chiefs then + I remember going to see the New Westminster Bruins too!); I lived in Chase and area in the late 1970s!


RE modern minor leaguers still in the game I think you’ll be very pleased to hear that with the extensive spreadsheet compiling multiple pass editing system I’ve used I don’t think you’ll see ANY modern players at game start-up..…but I suspect the game itself creates many players to help fill non-NHL rosters at start-up (not 100% sure of this, but I think so). What I’m wondering is will the game in the initial years “create” any star players, and I suspect not BUT I’m also wondering how many non-historical players will show up in later years. I expect the testing I’ll be doing in a couple of weeks or so (with all rosters pretty much in their final state) will start to give us some answers

RE STAFFNG Like the modern minor leaguers affecting the playability, I found modern staff to have a similar effect and am working on having all historical staff for the NHL for version 1.0 (editing staff are a real challenge, as many modern staff can’t be edited (but I have an idea!)…more in a future post)

RE the ‘Soviet Invasion” I think we can keep the Europeans in Europe and the Russians in Russia for many years! I learned last week that by adjusting Reputation in the Pre-Game Editor (and maybe Salary too) you can affect whether a player has an “NHL Release Clause” – the Russians in the 1979-80 db have long contracts but (I’m assuming) because of their high Home Reputation their contracts have an NHL Release Clause at game start-up…when I lowered Home Reputation and then started a new game the same players that had a Release Clause before now did NOT have one…cool eh? Again I expect the testing I’ll be doing in a couple of weeks or so (with all rosters pretty much in their final state) will confirm things


Right now I’m plugging away at the big picture editing of players
#1 ensuring all “modern” players with a CA and/or PA above 100 are removed from the game (Retired) #2 ensuing that all Europeans/Russians with a CA and/or PA above 100 are either “historical” and therefore kept in-game with an appropriate contract type/length OR "modern" and thus removed from the game (Retired) and #3 changing ages and moving players around as necessary) + doing some general testing

Regards

FYI - Some screenshots of some of the spreadsheets I use

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... DSHEET.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... DSHEET.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... DSHEET.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... DSHEET.jpg

I’ve had the new laptop for 8 days now…..when I hit “Continue” with my old laptop it would hum and whir and eventually, most of the time, it would advance a portion of a single day (often it would shut itself off from the effort).. The fact that the new laptop can actually simulate an entire season (in about an hour!!) has allowed this project to move forward so much faster than I anticipated! And editing moves along so much faster too! I really need things to be so rewarding because learning Windows 7 and Office 2010 is not so fun!


RE "the Russian Invasion”
In the 1979-80 db after the first season many of the great “historical” Russian players that pens66 included come over to North America and #1 harm the “realism” of the historical db and #2 really affect the balance of play…..my first test seasons last week of the 1974 db resulted in the same thing occurring! Their contracts are all set to expire in 2015, but they are given an “NHL Release Clause” in their contract at game start-up.

TESTED the idea of adjusting the player Reputation to 100-70-20 (Home-Current-World) to keep Russians in Russia…..seems to work if player age 20+
I Took 13 Russians CA 140-200 and changed their Reputations to 100-70-20, and 12 of 13 were still with their Russian teams at the start of season two (Woo Hoo!). I found it very interesting who did leave Russia and how – 19 year old Vladimir Krutov was drafted/signed by the Washington Capitals (all other “untouched Russians” were ages 21-32).
FYI I haven’t adjusted the Russian’s age back, and thus Krutov is 19 and not 14.
So then I ran a second test and this time the only thing I changed was on Krutov I gave his “Rights” to Moscow C (looks like all of the Russians involved in this test have blank Draft/Rights sections in the Editor) – I thought Krutov should have stayed in Russia as his Contract/Reputation was the same as all the others BUT unlike everyone else Krutov was under the age of 20 (typical Draft age)…….didn’t work (Drafted by Quebec). So then I tried to show him Drafted by Moscow C, but attempts to do so produced the “is not a valid integer message that I hate…..so as I’ve learned to do, I backed out (without saving!) immediately! In the end bumped his age up from 19 to 20 and that worked – under 20 drafted/signed by an NHL team, 20+ stayed in Russia. That’s it for now….I’ll worry about what can be done another day (tired of testing, going back to editing).

FYI – The Russians involved in this testing were H. Balderis, N. Drozdetsky, S. Kapustin, V. Kharlamov, V. Krutov, S. Makarov, A. Maltsev, V. Petrov, V. Shalimov, V. Tretiak, V. Vasiliev, A. Yakushev and V. Zhluktov.



RE Europeans/Russians in the 1974 db (in general)
When starting a new game I’d like for Sweden, Finland,, and “Czechoslovakia” to be like Russia too
– top League with players at/under 100 CA except for about 20-50 historical players
- historical youth in lower League(s) to feed the top League for years to come
Right now my thinking is for Version 1.0 I’m dealing only with what/who is already in the database right now, and I’ll ensure all the relevant players that need to be are added in in the future AND at some point in the future I’d like to work on having more Swedish/Finish players come over sooner than Czech players, and have the Russians come over later than all…


RE “what YOUTH will be in the db”
For version 1.0 I’m dealing only with what/who is in the database already right now.
Over the next few weeks I will be adding players for sure, not sure about more ‘youth” Leagues (maybe) BUT for sure in the future I want to have the “youth” Leagues go down to ages 1-2 (this means that ultimately the players born from 1957-1973 can be in the database).
The idea is that after 5-6 years in-game you’ll have finished up the 1970s (Bruins—Flyers—Jets-Canadiens dominant IRL), then after 5-6 more years of in-game play you play you move through the early/mid 1980s (from the Islanders dominance to the Gretzky era IRL), and after a few more years of in-game play (the Mario Lemieux era)…….THEN after about 18-19 years of in-game play we’ll see the players born in 1973 show up (players like Peter Forsberg, Marcus Naslund,, Eric Lindros, and many more!)
I’ve tested what’s in the database now (3 created “youth” Leagues, lowest age 8 and it works! Simmed forward 8 years a couple different times (2014 in-game) and everything looks like it should




At this point I can see editing away for a few more weeks yet. It’ll be another week or two of editing before I really sit down and do some “play testing” (right now the focus is on “does it seem to work” and then back to editing) – things are going well!

Regards

P.S. If you’re wondering “yes, I have the summer off…..and therefore can edit way as much as I can handle, which is a lot right now because “being so close I can taste it” is a great incentive!

This looks like a good project. I love these retro projects...

EDIT: I've personally tested lower than 8 years old in the past, down to 5 and 4 years. If their Potential Ability is high enough they stick around and it works fine, though player physical size growth could get wonky. The game seemed unfazed at them being there though...

Very curious to play around with this DB. Looks good, and I've played around enough to know what an undertaking large edits are...

Primis wrote: If their Potential Ability is high enough they stick around and it works fine

When you went down to 4 years of age do you remember what CA was required for them to "stick around"?
Were they Free Agents or in created "minor hockey" Leagues?

Mine are all in created Leagues,, and in testing thus far seem to follow the "created League path" up from Atom-Novice-Bantam and then into a "real" Bantam team or Major Junior (like the Mario Lemieux screenshot shows).

THANKS MUCH

This sounds like the most awesome database ever

nino33 wrote:

Primis wrote: If their Potential Ability is high enough they stick around and it works fine

When you went down to 4 years of age do you remember what CA was required for them to "stick around"?
Were they Free Agents or in created "minor hockey" Leagues?

I created the proper leagues in each nation, one league for each nation. With Canada I made a team for the major provinces plus a Maritimes team. For the US leagues I initially made an East and West team in each of the leagues. Basically I made enough teams to place reasonably place enough kids for the respective country.

I admittedly didn't play around a ton with it to see what Pot. Ability was the threshold to keep or regen them. I tested with a guy with 180 at first, then threw some others in and I think I had a guy at about 135 or 130 that stuck around just fine but I think that might be starting to skirt the line if they stay or go? I'd imagine the younger you go, the higher the threshold or cut-off. Could be wrong though. I also admittedly didn't try any of the randomized (ie -14, or whatever) values when I tested because I forgot about them. I was more interested int the proof-of-concept at the time. I was playing around with this initially trying to see if I could get the major prospects from the later drafts in for the 80's retro DB that's floating round out there.

You have to make sure you set EVERYTHING for those young kids though or man it gets wonky. Don't leave ANY zeroes in their attribs. I made the mistake of leaving one kid's height and weight at zero to be randomized and I ended up with a 6'5", 225 lb or thereabouts kid rampaging through his local minors program.

Primis wrote:This looks like a good project. I love these retro projects...

EDIT: I've personally tested lower than 8 years old in the past, down to 5 and 4 years. If their Potential Ability is high enough they stick around and it works fine, though player physical size growth could get wonky. The game seemed unfazed at them being there though...

Very curious to play around with this DB. Looks good, and I've played around enough to know what an undertaking large edits are...

Do you think the Reputation ratings play any part as to whether a player sticks around?

nino33 wrote:Over the next few weeks I will be adding players for sure, not sure about more ‘youth” Leagues (maybe) BUT for sure in the future I want to have the “youth” Leagues go down to ages 1-2 (this means that ultimately the players born from 1957-1973 can be in the database).
The idea is that after 5-6 years in-game you’ll have finished up the 1970s (Bruins—Flyers—Jets-Canadiens dominant IRL), then after 5-6 more years of in-game play you play you move through the early/mid 1980s (from the Islanders dominance to the Gretzky era IRL), and after a few more years of in-game play (the Mario Lemieux era)…….THEN after about 18-19 years of in-game play we’ll see the players born in 1973 show up (players like Peter Forsberg, Marcus Naslund,, Eric Lindros, and many more!)
I’ve tested what’s in the database now (3 created “youth” Leagues, lowest age 8 and it works! Simmed forward 8 years a couple different times (2014 in-game) and everything looks like it should

I was going to ask whether you planned on adding this. This will be so cool! I would love to play with the likes of Brett Hull, Mike Modano, Nicklas Lidstrom again!

P.s. let me know how your experiments go with the Current Ability ratings. I'd be very interested to know. I'll be testing my 11/12 ShaddSheet CA's very soon.

Will you be capping the older players' PAs? Something we've discussed before is setting the PA the same as the CA for players who have reached their peak.

archibalduk wrote:

Primis wrote:This looks like a good project. I love these retro projects...

EDIT: I've personally tested lower than 8 years old in the past, down to 5 and 4 years. If their Potential Ability is high enough they stick around and it works fine, though player physical size growth could get wonky. The game seemed unfazed at them being there though...

Very curious to play around with this DB. Looks good, and I've played around enough to know what an undertaking large edits are...

Do you think the Reputation ratings play any part as to whether a player sticks around?

Possibly, but it's probably minor if it is.

If there's a "checklist" for the game to work through to weed out (ala "IF PA > x, THEN GOTO y"), Pot. Ability seems to be Step 1.