1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[nino33]

Hmmm.....just "thinking out loud" at this point, but I'm wondering if I gave every Canadian a 2nd Nationality of American, and every American a 2nd Nationality of Canadian, could I limit the "foreigners" to a certain amount of "EU" players and therefore keep Russians in Russia.....

I myself don't really understand "foreigner rules" at all, so I don't know what exactly EHM simulates, or how it simulates what it simulates, so I don't really understand if there's a difference between EU and Russian to EHM (or whether "EU" is even a category that's editable)...

[archibalduk]

I don't think that would achieve what you're hoping for. The effect the EU has in game is that any league in an EU country a can sign any number of players/staff who are nationals of other EU countries. In other words, the no foreigner rule for EU leagues doesn't cover EU nationalities. Russia isn't a member of the EU and so Russians are counted as a foreigner in EU leagues.

I'll take a look at the foreigner rules to see if we can find a way round it. I suspect that the only way would be to add Canada and US to the EU but this would mean EU nations could sign as many North Americans as they like.

EU membership can be edited using the Nation Extractor.

[nino33]

Greetings!

Today is the first day of my summer vacation! Woo Hoo!

At this point the only real "plans" I have are some camping in late July, and LOTS of 1974 database editing!
It'll be weeks before the next test version of the 1974 database will be ready,
as I have LOTS of editing I already know I want/need to do...it's just such a slow, tedious task! Even with the massive help of the EHM Updater and other tools...Oh well...it is what it is what it is

I'm not sure yet if the next test version will be "public" or not, but I'm intending a public release by the end of the summer at worst...
Below is an overview of what I'm working on now and/or what I'm intending on working on in the coming weeks...



1. Further editing of historical AHL/CHL players
- Adding NHL draft data
- Reviewing/editing CA/PA
- Reviewing/editing OFF/DEF role
- Adding NHL rights/contracts where applicable
- Moving players to the “correct” farm team
When I “created” these players I used a spreadsheet and noted CA/PA and OFF/DEF role as well as IRL NHL/WHA games played; all players were basically given generic/average CA/PA and OFF/DEF within a small/specific range…now I’m going through and adjusting these Attributes for “better” players (i.e. NHL/WHA games played and/or high draft pick and/or older age player results in an improved PA and/or CA)

ALSO given the huge differences in how players were signed/developed IRL 1974, and given my adjusting of farm team affiliations (to avoid the many IRL “shared” affiliations), some players are on the "wrong" minor pro team, so I’m moving them to their “correct” farm team (i.e. I’m looking at their IRL career, and based on the NHL draft or NHL/WHA GP around 1974 I’m determining an appropriate NHL/WHA connection whenever possible…historical minor pro players that don’t have an appropriate NHL/WHA connection are contracted to their AHL/CHL team) - all of this I first do "on paper" (spreadsheet) and then later I do the actual editing

ALSO the EHM Updater allows for easier/faster mass updating!…I intend to do some initial “specific Attribute editing” for minor pro players too (i.e. Attributes like Work Rate and Consistency)



2. Reviewing/editing the height/weight of all historical minor hockey players
- Using 95% of the adult height/weight as the starting height/weight
My thought on the height/weight development of age 18 and under players is “I gotta start somehere!” and so I’ve decided to go with 95% of the adult height/weight so I have the same baseline to start with (it’s not going to be perfect, more of a best/ongoing effort!)…I’ve just started this task and already I’ve noticed some players are “already adjusted” and some players have their IRL adult height/weight, and some players are just outright wrong (currently in the 1974 db Gretzky’s 92 kg/203 lbs at start-up!)



3. Reviewing/editing list of 40 Attributes for all NHL Staff
- Manually compiling spreadsheet in excel, almost done! (355/386 completed)
- Editing to ensure Staff have reasonable/job appropriate Attributes
- Editing to ensure known historical Staff “styles” are represented
The Staff were put together in a haphazard way, and in compiling the spreadsheet I’ve seen “a lot of room for improvement” in NHL Staff…



4. Editing NHL team/rink information
- Editing team information like Budget, Club Reputation, Training, Fan Support and Market Size
- Editing Chairman Business Attribute
- Eventually get to minor pro and major junior teams too
I’ve already compiled most of the relevant/needed NHL data on paper, and done some testing…I pretty much know what changes I want, just haven’t got to the actual editing yet…

ALSO this issue connects a lot to NHL salary issues…I’ve been doing some testing regarding salaries; eventually I’ll be for sure turning my attention to NHL salaries and the Salary Cap, but not at this time



5. Creating hundreds more minor hockey players using the EHM Updater (thanks again Arch!)
- Currently there are only 114 players in the Tyke/Novice/Atom Leagues…I’m in the process of adding hundreds more using the EHM Updater!
I’m still using excel spreadsheets I first compiled over a year ago! For this task I have an old spreadsheet listing all NHL Players by Birth Year, and I’ve noted whether players are already in the 1974 database or not…I kept the links when I first compiled the data, and am using these again (I’ve already started to populate an EHM Updater “staff_new” spreadsheet)

AND in looking a little closer at the work I’ve already done, I think I’ve got some Tykes in the Novice League...when I’m actually editing height/weight I’ll move players as needed



6. Minor Pro Divisional alignment and Affiliation connections for NHL/AHL/CHL/ECHL
I will do this task, but there’s no need to tackle it first! These edits may be connected to the weird “search configure crash issue” so I’ll be going extra slow with extra testing when I do get to this…



7. Further review/editing of NHL player Attributes & NHL player OFF/DEF Roles
This is pretty much my favourite thing to do, and the EHM Updater has made this even easier to do! To me I`ve barely scratched the surface of this task…I try to “save the best for last” as part of my motivation



I'm not sure if I missed anything significant...I think that's it...it's enough, for sure! Lots to keep me busy

[archibalduk]

Whoa that's a long list. Best of luck!

[Primis]

#5 still very much excites me. Nothing like it has ever done at this scope, and I still say it's a game-changer for EHM mods.

You've really gone all-out on this and glad to see you're so organized. Are we closing in on a year already?

[nino33]

Are we closing in on a year already?

It's been a year since I first posted on TBL, and I'd been at it for a year already at that time, so it's been two years since I started this project!

At first (in the summer of 2010) it was a 1976 database...and then I "lost everything" for the first time in the fall of 2010 (Grr! Computers!)...and then by last summer I thought I was so close to a public release, and then twice "lost everything" again (Grr! Computers!)...so I started again last fall, and since then I kept plugging away while Archi's many editing tools have been created/released, and opened up the editing potential so much (and his help/support in times of trouble have helped immensely; and users provided valuable feedback/support too!), and now it's so much more than I ever dreamed it could be when I started...

You've really gone all-out on this and glad to see you're so organized.

Yes I have gone all out! And I am rather organized! Of course, having to redo things so many times helps you get organized! HaHa
I love data/information, and I love spreadsheets! And I have many yearbooks, magazines, books, dvds, etc that provide me with a lot of relevant information...AND in recent months I even began buying on ebay the individual team yearbooks for 1974-75! I remember thinking I'd never do this, and now I have the yearbooks for 13 of the 30 teams! All of these resources are a great help to me (and they give me lots to organize!)

Part of what help me stay motivated and keep at it is to #1 accept that it's a long, time consuming process and #2 do things in stages.
For me doing things in stages means that I can work on many different things, and thus I can usually do things that interest me, even if I won't get to "use" what I'm working on for quite awhile...and now the EHM Updater makes so much not only possible, but much faster than previous editing efforts! (i.e. many months ago I went through the database and made a list of which Russians from the 1972 team that played Canada were not in the database, and I've had a list of additional historical Czech players to add for even longer, and now with the EHM Updater it is much quicker/easier to add these players to the database...so I intend to now add these adult players as well as all of the youngsters in the next few weeks!)

[nino33]

My thought on the height/weight development of age 18 and under players is “I gotta start somehere!” and so I’ve decided to go with 95% of the adult height/weight so I have the same baseline to start with (it’s not going to be perfect, more of a best/ongoing effort!)

I've decided to go with 95% of adult height and 90% of adult weight, and we'll see how that works...

[Moses Doughty]

Might be done with any testing for the forseeable future. PC looks like it's on its last legs and is a goner soon. And then I need to figure out how to get EHM on the Mac, last time I tried didn't work for whatever reason. Hopefully not too long.

[nino33]

Might be done with any testing for the forseeable future. PC looks like it's on its last legs and is a goner soon. And then I need to figure out how to get EHM on the Mac, last time I tried didn't work for whatever reason. Hopefully not too long.

Understandable...best of luck with your computer issues!

[Moses Doughty]

Might be done with any testing for the forseeable future. PC looks like it's on its last legs and is a goner soon. And then I need to figure out how to get EHM on the Mac, last time I tried didn't work for whatever reason. Hopefully not too long.

Understandable...best of luck with your computer issues!

Thank you. I'm hoping it can be resolved soon though.

[nino33]

Greetings!

I’m in the midst of taking a few days off from 1974 database editing, as I recently moved into the DMA and am the new GM of the Montreal Canadiens (thus the switch from the B. Parent avatar to the S. Bowman/K. Dryden avatar…still a 1970s theme!) - so I'm currently taking the time to get to know my new team, but I have been working a lot on the 1974 database lately (summer holidays!), and thought I’d post where I’m at…

4. Editing NHL team/rink information
6. Minor Pro Divisional alignment and Affiliation connections for NHL/AHL/CHL/ECHL
7. Further review/editing of NHL player Attributes & NHL player OFF/DEF Roles

I haven’t looked at these yet…

1. Further editing of historical AHL/CHL players
3. Reviewing/editing list of 40 Attributes for all NHL Staff

I haven’t really looked at these lately, but LOTS has been done on these tasks already…the necessary data to allow for effective editing has been compiled in spreadsheets for both, and I’ve started on the AHL/CHL players (289 AHL players "further reviewed" thus far)

5. Creating hundreds more minor hockey players using the EHM Updater
2. Reviewing/editing the height/weight of all historical minor hockey players

This is what I’m spending all my time on lately! I first review/edit the starting height and weight of the really young historical players already in the database (sort by League), and then I review all the IRL players by Birth Year (spreadsheets I long ago compiled using the HockeyReference site), and then I add the missing players using then EHM Updater (after first checking to see if they’re already in the database)…I've been working on historical players who are age 1 to 8 at game start-up, and right now I’m at an additional 167 players so far (currently just building the Updater staff_new list)



Regards

[Manimal]

I know this is not something you've thought too much about yet, but will you remove all modern players from the Major Junior teams? I hope so

[nino33]

will you remove all modern players

I never even imagined the possibility when I started this project, but Archi's EHM Updater is for sure a real game changer, allowing for so much more...

I always wondered if there was a minimum amount of non-grey players/staff required (i.e. if one could actually start with a "blank database" would the game at start-up actually create players/staff, or would there only be grey players/staff...or would the game simply not load/crash) - perhaps by the time I get to the point of considering removing all non-historical players/staff someone will have tested the deleting abilities/limitations of the Updater/EHM...

[Lazion]

I always wondered if there was a minimum amount of non-grey players/staff required (i.e. if one could actually start with a "blank database" would the game at start-up actually create players/staff, or would there only be grey players/staff...or would the game simply not load/crash

There is no minimun staff required.
When loading db in full detail game creates few players in non-playable teams and some staff in free agent pool. And when loading db small sized and if you have removed all non-playable teams it doesn't create any players or other staff in game. It's been while shince I tested this and my memory isn't that good anymore I can't say for sure if you need to delete non-playable teams for loading completely blank db.

This happened in blank db where I created like 100 players. This one is player/non-player. Teams runned so low in GM's that they had to sign non-player who still was active player and he moved in NHL later.

http://i52.tinypic.com/25f3ima.jpg

.

[nino33]

Thanks much for the feedback!

And when loading db small sized and if you have removed all non-playable teams it doesn't create any players or other staff in game

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "if you have removed all non-playable teams"? Are you talking about if you have removed all players/staff in non-playable leagues?


I think my focus would be on playable leagues, and what I'd ultimately want to do with the 1974 database is delete all players/staff from those teams that didn't exist in 1974, and delete the modern players/staff that are on teams that did exist in 1974 - sounds like I might run into some weirdness due to too few Staff...but I'm glad to hear that major deleting can occur!

[Lazion]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "if you have removed all non-playable teams"? Are you talking about if you have removed all players/staff in non-playable leagues?

No. I mean setting non-playable teams (ex. HC Davos) from active to unactive status.

[nino33]

Ah, I get it...thanks for clarifying

[nino33]

Back to some editing today...lots done on the Minor Pro Divisional Alignment task (AHL is now done...CHL too I think)

And I spent a lot of time on Russia today editing League Salary Cap and Team Cash/Budget/Reputation and no matter what I tried the Russian players recieved a salary between $275K and $400K (a salary and/or value of 10 million or 100 million showed in game as $275K)...not sure why?

And again Tretiak signed right away, but Kharlamov/Mikhailov wouldn't sign as they didn't want to leave Russia...as all the relevant Attributes are the same (like Adaptability, Loyalty, etc), maybe it's a player age thing? Tretiak's only 22 at start-up, while Kharlamov's 26 and Mikhailov's 29

[nino33]

In the PreGame Editor, on the Affiliations tab, "Dependency" is an option, with Independant, Semi-Independant and Dependant as options.....anyone know what these do?

[nino33]

will you remove all modern players from the Major Junior teams? I hope so

I'm doing this right now! WHL is done, currently working on the OHL!

6. Minor Pro Divisional alignment and Affiliation connections for NHL/AHL/CHL/ECHL

This is now done! Tested, seems to work fine...

I had 42 teams worth of historical players to place (all the IRL available players/teams from 1974), and AHL + CHL = 44 teams...that's why Winston-Salem and Hampton in the CHL are not affiliated with anyone; they don't have any (historical) players and thus no connection/affiliation...

Same with the ECHL teams...only one has an affiliation, the Trail Smoke Eaters are affiliated with the Vancouver Canucks (because it seemed a perfect/natural fit to me)...so the two CHL teams and remaining 24 ECHL teams are without affiliations/attachments
- the NHL teams need a second/third affiliation
- the ECHL teams need/can have affiliations with CHL teams (CHL is parent club) as well as NHL teams (NHL is parent club)

I'm going to leave it as "good enough" for now (If anyone wants to suggest what specific team connections/affiliations to give the remaining, currently unaffiliated teams, I'd be willing to listen!). To tell you the truth, I'm thrilled to get this far!

Team/Name changes have caused me many (unrelated?) issues before, and they "caused" crashes the first day this time HaHa...but a slow/careful approach and about a dozen saves along the way and hooray! Seems to have worked!
So I'm moving on to other tasks right now (like getting rid of the remaining modern OHL/QMJHL players!)...


Regards



Here's the affiliations (keep in mind the AHL/CHL have been set up to be equal, and the ECHL is the lower league)...

FYI The Washington Capitals, Winnipeg Jets and San Diego Mariners do not have an AHL affiliation


AHL

North
Nova Scotia Voyageurs Montreal Canadiens
Syracuse Eagles Cleveland Crusaders
Maine Nordiques Quebec Nordiques
Fort Wayne Komets Pittsburgh Penguins
Milwaukee Admirals Vancouver Canucks
Rochester Americans Boston Bruins

West
Oklahoma City Blazers Toronto Maple Leafs
Salt Lake Golden Eagles California Seals
Fort Worth Texans NY Islanders
Dallas Black Hawks Chicago Blackhawks
Denver Spurs St. Louis Blues
Tulsa Oilers Calgary Cowboys
Omaha Knights Atlanta Flames

East
Cape Breton Oilers Edmonton Oilers
Providence Reds NY Rangers
Springfield Kings LA Kings
Cape Codders New England Whalers
Hershey Bears Buffalo Sabres
New Haven Nighthawks Minnesota North Stars
Mohawk Valley Comets Birmingham Bulls

Atlantic
Virginia Wings Detroit Red Wings
Roanoke Valley Rebels Houston Aeros
Greensboro Generals Ottawa Senators
Richmond Robins Philadelphia Flyers
Baltimore Clippers Colorado Rockies
Johnstown Jets Phoenix Roadrunners
Long Island Cougars Seattle Totems



CHL

Northwest
Saginaw Gears Toronto Maple Leafs
Flint Generals Chicago Blackhawks + Edmonton Oilers
Muskegon Mohawks NY Islanders
Port Huron Flags NY Rangers + Colorado Rockies

Northeast
Binghamton Dusters Boston Bruins
Sherbrooke Jets Winnipeg Jets
Philadelphia Firebirds Philadelphia Flyers + Ottawa Senators
Syracuse Blazers San Diego Mariners

Southwest
Dayton Gems Washington Capitals
Des Moines Capitals Atlanta Flames + Vancouver Canucks
Kalamazoo Wings Detroit Red Wings
Lansing Lancers Minnesota North Stars
Toledo Goaldiggers California Seals

Southeast
Charlotte Checkers Buffalo Sabres
Winston-Salem Polar Twins
Hampton Gulls
Columbus Owls St. Louis Blues



ECHL

Pacific
Long Beach Sharks
Portland Buckaroos
San Diego Hawks
Spokane Chiefs
Trail Smoke Eaters Vancouver Canucks

West
Amarillo Wranglers
Fresno Falcons
Kansas City Blues
Tucson Rustlers
Wichita Wind

North
Adirondack Red Wings
Beauce Jaros
Buffalo Norsemen
Erie Blades
Fredericton Express
New Brunswick Hawks
Utica Mohawks

South
Cincinnati Stingers
Cleveland Barons
Indianapolis Racers
Jersey Devils
Tidewater Sharks
Salem Raiders
Suncoast Suns
Washington Chiefs

[Moses Doughty]

Quick Request. Could you add a CHL affiliate to the teams with only an AHL team? If you have a full reserve list there is no where to send the lower guys to go to play games unless they go on loan which is a hassle to deal with.

[nino33]

Quick Request. Could you add a CHL affiliate to the teams with only an AHL team?

Absolutely! But which teams? And do you add more "shared affilaitions" in the CHL? These are the questions that were hurting my head! HaHa
So I left it for now...

I thought maybe it makes sense that Winnipeg, Washington, and San Diego get an ECHL affiliation (because they're the only NHL teams that didn't get an AHL affiliation)...and I thought there's a number of good ECHL options for the Seattle Totems to get another affiliation (like Vancouver)...beyond that I thought "good enough for now" so I decided to move on to something I was more motivated to do! That's turning out to be deleting modern Major Juniors!

FYI I've always thought about trying to give a "future affiliation" using the Extra_Config file (with my having ECHL teams at this point with no affiliations it might be a good time to try this idea out)

[Moses Doughty]

Well, there are 68 minor league teams if I counted right, more than enough for every team to have 2 on their own, or 1 in the AHL/CHL and a shared ECHL

[nino33]

there are 68 minor league teams if I counted right

Are you talking in-game? When I say 42 teams of historical minor pro players, I mean IRL in 1974 there were 30 pro teams (NHL+WHA) and in 1974 there were 42 minor pro teams (AHL+CHL+IHL+NAHL+SHL).....it's from these 42 teams that I created the AHL/CHL historical players (I've now removed the IRL shared affiliations in many cases, but it's still 42 teams of players)

So I may have 68 minor pro teams in EHM, but I only have 42 teams worth of players to populate EHM with...ideally if I could I'd edit the Leagues/Teams so I didn't have the "extra" teams, but that's not an option...so the point is I have an extra 26 "available teams" (with empty rosters at start-up) that at some point I'll get to choosing/connecting affilaitions for

It's just a matter of connecting teams (i.e. give all NHL teams at least 2 affiliations, connect AHL/CHL teams to ECHL teams too)...it's not a problem/issue, and if no one has any suggestions I will get to it eventually!

[nino33]

Can anyone tell me which Russian Elite League team names (default db) would go with the IRL Russian Elite League teams back in 1974-75?
Below in blue font are the ten historical team names (according to hockeydb) for the Russian Elite League in 1974-75, and in black font are the names I have in EHM….I’ve connected the four teams I think I know…

Thanks Much!


CSKA Moscow Moscow C
Krylja Sovetov Moscow K
Moscow Spartak
Voskresensk Khimik
Dynamo Riga
Moscow Dynamo Moscow D
Chelyabinsk Traktor
Gorky Torpedo
Leningrad SKA Saint-Petersburg
Saratov Kristall

Remaining teams in EHM – Chekhov, Chelyabinsk T, Cherepovets, Kazan, Khabarovsk, Magnitogorsk, Mytischi, Nizhnekamsk, Novokuznetsk, Novosibirsk, Omsk, Togliatti, Tver, Ufa and Yaroslav