1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[XenHL]

+ You have to keep ALL of a League's rules, so the "new NHL" (AHL) would have the AHL's veteran restrictions for example

Really?

I know a long while ago I made a sort of "KHL Manager" in which I replaced NHL teams with KHL teams (so the NHL teams mostly ended up in the Russian superleague and first division, and a couple other countries). But the first test go, all the AI teams signed all the NHLers, so there were only a handful of Russians left... this was a problem, but I discovered elsewhere that you can hex edit the EHM exe file to change the league rules - I added... I can't remember which country's rule, but a foreigner rule, that allowed for max (IIRC) 6 foreigners on a roster with no age limit.

So the AHL veteran restriction issue may be something that can be addressed via hex editing... but then, if you want to make such a DB for distribution, you'd have to include a hex edited copy of the .exe...

[nino33]

My understanding comes directly from Hobbit13, the resident expert on hexediting...maybe I misunderstood but I don't think so

if you want to make such a DB for distribution, you'd have to include a hex edited copy of the .exe

That's what they did with the UUDB

[Beukeboom]

Thank you so much, i love this DB, not only because you can go back in hockey history, but also its a real challenge, the talent depth is way worse than in any other DB i have seen before which makes the game far more fan and challenging...there are some minor flaws still but overall its an awesome experience ..maybe the top players should also be toned down a little guys like Trpttier have 20s nearly all over...BTW i just traded my fav player ever maybe having never played a game for my Rangers and just having ripped the AHL..was so confident to bring him in as already star next season...there was just one thing that could get me into trading him...Messier for gretzky straight up.. BLOCKBUSTER TRADE BELLS ON!!!! Now i really have to see if it wasnt a mistake...really...

[nino33]

Thank you so much, i love this DB, not only because you can go back in hockey history, but also its a real challenge, the talent depth is way worse than in any other DB i have seen before which makes the game far more fan and challenging...

Glad you like it!


I think the talent issue you're noticing is because it's a work in progress...the computer never creates "good" players at start-up (average at best), and 85% of the Minor Pro players (AHL/CHL) in the 1974 db 1.0 have a PA of -5 (so a max PA of 100 means they'll be at best a "poor" NHLer...average is 120); this is the additional editing I'm working on AND in the 1974 db 1.0 there's virtually no Europeans/Russians! There's hundreds of players with average to above average NHL talent that don't exist...yet! This is also being worked on now too

And of course because in EHM regens are based on the talent level of who retires, it won't improve over time

Manimal 4.2 has 45,810 Players/Staff while the 1974 db 1.0 has 33,229 Players/Staff - that's over 12,000 less Players/Staff!
If you took any database and deleted 99.9% of all Europeans/Russians + made 85% of all Minor Pro players PA a -5 I think you'd get a similar experience...

I'm hoping to have an updated version prior to Christmas (with edited AHL/CHL players, additional Major Junior players and hundreds of additional Europeans/Russians...plus additional player history! and more!)

maybe the top players should also be toned down a little guys like Trpttier have 20s nearly all over

My understanding is all top players end up with almost all 20s in all databases...
IRL Trottier was arguably the top center of his time (and had 95 points as a rookie!), had over 100 points six times, and was certainly one of the best two way centers ever IMO



Regards




EDIT
I've actually only spent a few minutes editing over the last 4-5 days, and probably won't be editing much over the next week...early last week I decided I wanted some extra fun/freetime, and I added another EHM05 online League to my life (DMB joined DMA)...and then on the weekend I joined the RDHL (an EHM07 online League); in addition to familiarizing myself with a couple new teams, I had a draft yesterday! It's a lot of fun to be busy actually playing EHM!

[Job]

maybe the top players should also be toned down a little guys like Trpttier have 20s nearly all over

My understanding is all top players end up with almost all 20s in all databases...
IRL Trottier was arguably the top center of his time (and had 95 points as a rookie!), had over 100 points six times, and was certainly one of the best two way centers ever IMO



Regards

And that is what every database does wrong. How do you differentiate the great players from the all-time great, and then the all-time great with the best ever (Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr) when pretty much every great player has 20s all over?

[nino33]

And that is what every database does wrong. How do you differentiate the great players from the all-time great, and then the all-time great with the best ever (Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr) when pretty much every great player has 20s all over?

I don't think it's anything any database does wrong, but rather its just the nature of EHM...
One thing that might help a bit in this regard is the "hidden Atts" (like Consistency, Decisions, and Important Matches)...if players aren't regularly given high numbers in these areas, and the great/all-time great players are, it might help seperate them a bit (so while in-game players may look simiar with "almost all 20s" their actual game performance/results will differ appropriately...at least that's my hope)

[Primis]

OK, Story Time! Not going to clutter up the Challenge thread (since I'm not actually doing it).

I'm playing as Detroit. I got to the Finals against... *gulp* Montreal. I've been to the Finals once before 2 years ago where Philly whupped me in 5 games after Dionne got hurt.

It started out ugly. Danny Grant was hurt before the playoffs, but I ran along fine without him. However I hit the Finals with MTL and began to lose. I'm playing with the Slapshot tactics and have guys like Tiger Williams, Terry O'Reilly on my bottom six, and Franke Bathe on my blueline.... hard hitters that agitate and can wear a team down, as well as some other guys that aren't huge hitters but can play physical. My goal is to be terrible to play against, win or lose. I fell down 1-0, 2-0, then 3-0...

However, Montreal was paying a price. First Guy Lapointe went down to injury. Then Bob Gainey. Then Pierre Bouchard. It wasn't helping though, because MTL was still winning handily because their depth is ridiculous. Then came Game 4. Mark Howe (yeah I brought all the Howes to Detroit at the game start, shut up) went down immediately to injury. Whelp, there goes my best d-man. This will go poorly.

But a funny thing happened. I'd been absolutely slamming MTL with shots all series long (35-45 shots/game) and it apparently got to be too much for Dryden and... he went down. And didn't get back up. He's out long-term with what is a broken wrist IIRC.

So in skates backup Cam Newton (no not that one) to tend goal. And... I wax them, 7-3. Game 5... I blast them 8-4 and panic ensues in Habs Nation. I run off 2 more lopsided wins and... I'm Cup Champion. Montreal could survive losing just about anyone on D or F.... but when Dryden went down, their game went with him. And I slayed the Montreal dragon.

I've never come back from down 0-3 in any playoff series on this (I have on the freeware). And I don't know that I've ever seen one single player be so crucial to a team before as Dryden is to Montreal. Without him, all the other great names and players really aren't so formidable.

[bruins72]

That's pretty cool. I've been slowly (within the challenge rules) toughening my team up. Maybe I've got to look to hurt some people?

[nino33]

I've ever seen one single player be so crucial to a team before as Dryden is to Montreal. Without him, all the other great names and players really aren't so formidable.

A bit like real life, as Dryden actually sat out the 1973-74 season in a contract dispute with the Habs (and he spent the year fulfilling the requirements for his law degree)...that year the Habs let in 56 more goals and lost in the 1st round of the playoffs; in his 8 years in the NHL (he retired at 31) he lead Montral to the Cup 6 times!

[nino33]

RE 1974 database editing progress

On September 4th version 1.0 of the 1974 database was (finally!) released.

I have noted the (months of) additional editing that I’m working on before releasing the next version, specifically
- Further editing of AHL/CHL players
- Adding additional WHL/OHL players
- Adding additional Europeans/Russians
- Adding Major Junior/Minor Pro Staff

As well, XenHL has been diligently working to add player history to the players, and has made enormous progress! http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... db+history

AND I haven’t finished looking at the Height/Weight research yet in order to determine what to set the youngest players at (seems “0” might be the best way to go)



On September 4th version 1.0 of the 1974 database was released.

I work as a Teacher Assistant. On September 10th my union went on strike, a strike that lasted until October 2nd (I voted not to strike but supported democracy, and I chose myself to suffer the financial loss and not picket)…the reason I’m even mentioning this is my work on the 1974 database basically continued on “summer style” throughout September because I was at home all day! I had intended to relax and work on the database much less but that didn’t happen in September – now that I’m back at work things are very different!

In the last two weeks I haven’t done much on the 1974 database. I’m starting to work on it again a bit more lately, but I wanted to mention I can’t see an updated/better version being available before Christmas

Just wanted to mention this so that it's known that less updates on editing progress doesn't mean work isn't continuing, but it's a long/slow proccess...



Regards

[Primis]

In the last two weeks I haven’t done much on the 1974 database. I’m starting to work on it again a bit more lately, but I wanted to mention I can’t see an updated/better version being available before Christmas

Just wanted to mention this so that it's known that less updates on editing progress doesn't mean work isn't continuing, but it's a long/slow proccess...

No worries, 1.0 is insanely playable as-is.

[bruins72]

No worries, 1.0 is insanely playable as-is.

I agree! I'm really enjoying my game from the Detroit Challenge. Depending on what we do for the next challenge, I may choose to continue on after the challenge ends. Either way, it's a great DB.

[nino33]

I'm sure it's not a surprise to anyone, I like data!
So when I recently did some modern database data comparisons, I was naturally curious/interested about how the 1974 database compared...



I’ve taken a look at some specific Attributes (the visible Technical Attributes) in a couple modern databases, comparing the averages for the start-up NHL…I’ve now added the data from the 1974 database

This data looks at all NHL forwards…

NHL Forward Technical Att Averages
[table][tr][th]Attribute[/th][th]Daelh 15-maj[/th][th]Manimal 4.2[/th][th]1974 db[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Checking[/td][td]12.8[/td][td]12.4[/td] [td]11.7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deflections[/td][td]11.8[/td][td]11.5[/td] [td]11.7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deking[/td][td]12.7[/td][td]11.9[/td] [td]11.7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]FOs[/td][td]10.9[/td][td]11.0[/td] [td]10.4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]FOs (C only)[/td][td]14.2[/td][td]13.6[/td] [td]12.1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Movement[/td][td]12.9[/td][td]12.5[/td] [td]11.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Passing[/td][td]13.2[/td][td]13.9[/td] [td]12.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pokecheck[/td][td]12.2[/td][td]11.1[/td] [td]11.0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Positioning[/td][td]13.0[/td][td]11.8[/td] [td]12.0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Slapshot[/td][td]11.9[/td][td]11.9[/td] [td]11.7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stickhandling[/td][td]13.2[/td][td]12.6[/td] [td]12.7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wristshot[/td][td]12.9[/td][td]13.1[/td] [td]12.3[/td][/tr][/table]

This data looks only at the top 60 NHL forwards (by CA)…

Top 60 NHL Forward Technical Att Averages
[table][tr][th]Attribute[/th][th]Daelh 15-maj[/th][th]Manimal 4.2[/th] [th]1974 db[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Checking[/td][td]13.0[/td][td]13.4[/td] [td]13.0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deflections[/td][td]14.5[/td][td]14.2[/td] [td]13.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deking[/td][td]16.4[/td][td]15.2[/td] [td]13.1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]FOs[/td][td]12.4[/td][td]13.0[/td] [td]11.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]FOs (C only)[/td][td]15.4[/td][td]15.0[/td] [td]14.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Movement[/td][td]16.3[/td][td]15.7[/td] [td]14.1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Passing[/td][td]16.7[/td][td]16.0[/td] [td]14.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pokecheck[/td][td]13.4[/td][td]12.8[/td] [td]12.8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Positioning[/td][td]14.5[/td][td]13.1[/td] [td]13.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Slapshot[/td][td]15.5[/td][td]14.9[/td] [td]13.7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stickhandling[/td][td]16.9[/td][td]15.9[/td] [td]14.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wristshot[/td][td]16.7[/td][td]16.5[/td] [td]14.0[/td][/tr][/table]




I also looked at some basic comparisons of the default/Manimal/ Daelh databases, and again I’ve now added the data from the 1974 database

The default database has 762 players who are on an NHL team at start up...69% are rated below 140 for CA
Manimal 4.2 has 753 players on an NHL team at start-up...59% are rated below 140 for CA
Daelh 15-maj has 787 players on an NHL team at start-up...57% are rated below 140 for CA
The 1974 db has 636 players on an NHL team at start-up...74% are rated below 140 for CA

There are 68 players in the default database with a starting CA between 160-200
There are 102 players in Manimal 4.2 with a starting CA between 160-200
There are 84 players in Daelh 15-maj with a starting CA between 160-200
There are 24 players in the 1974 db with a starting CA between 160-200

In the default database there are 51 NHLers with a CA of 150-159.
In Manimal 4.2 there are 90 NHLers with a CA of 150-159.
In the Daelh 15-maj there are 81 NHLers with a CA of 150-159
In the 1974 db there are 51 NHLers with a CA of 150-159

The average CA in the default db is 125
The average CA in Manimal 4.2 is 135
The average CA in Daelh 15-maj is 136
The average CA in the 1974 db is 127

In the default database there are 128 NHLers with a CA of 110-119.
in Manimal 4.2 there are 82 NHLers with a CA of 110-119.
In the Daelh 15-maj database there are 81 NHLers with a CA of 110-119.
In the 1974 database there are 231 NHLers with a CA of 110-119.

In the default database there are 85 NHLers with a CA of 100-109.
in Manimal 4.2 there are 31 NHLers with a CA of 100-109.
In the Daelh 15-maj database there are 17 NHLers with a CA of 100-109.
In the 1974 database there are 45 NHLers with a CA of 100-109.

The average OFF Role in the default db is 12.7
The average OFF Role in Manimal 4.2 is 13.8
The average OFF Role in Daelh 15-maj is 13.4
The average OFF Role in the 1974 db is 11.5

The average Passing rating in the default db is 12.4
The average Passing rating in Manimal 4.2 is 13.0
The average Passing rating in Daelh 15-maj is 13.1
The average Passing rating in the 1974 db is 11.9

The average Wristshot rating in the default db is 11.6
The average Wristshot rating in Manimal 4.2 is 12.3
The average Wristshot rating in Daelh 15-maj is 12.3
The average Wristshot rating in the 1974 db is 10.9

[nino33]

I took a look at defenseman too…


All NHL Defensemen
[table][tr][th]Attribute[/th][th]Daelh 15-maj[/th][th]Manimal 4.2[/th][th]1974 db[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]CA[/td][td]135.4[/td][td]133.2[/td] [td]123.0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DEF Role[/td][td]14.3[/td][td]14.5[/td] [td]15.4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]OFF Role[/td][td]12.4[/td][td]12.2[/td] [td]6.7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hitting[/td][td]12.6[/td][td]12.5[/td] [td]12.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Checking[/td][td]13.7[/td][td]13.7[/td] [td]13.2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deflections[/td][td]7.9[/td][td]7.7[/td] [td]6.4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deking[/td][td]10.4[/td][td]9.4[/td] [td]7.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Movement[/td][td]11.9[/td][td]11.5[/td] [td]5.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Passing[/td][td]13.1[/td][td]13.1[/td] [td]11.1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pokecheck[/td][td]13.6[/td][td]13.1[/td] [td]11.2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Positioning[/td][td]13.9[/td][td]13.4[/td] [td]11.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Slapshot[/td][td]13.0[/td][td]13.3[/td] [td]10.9[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stickhandling[/td][td]11.6[/td][td]11.4[/td] [td]9.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stickhandling[/td][td]11.6[/td][td]11.4[/td] [td]9.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wristshot[/td][td]10.9[/td][td]10.8[/td] [td]10.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Aggression[/td][td]11.6[/td][td]11.3[/td] [td]9.9[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Anticipation[/td][td]12.9[/td][td]12.4[/td] [td]10.2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Determination[/td][td]13.6[/td][td]13.5[/td] [td]12.0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Work Rate[/td][td]14.8[/td][td]13.9[/td] [td]12.4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Consistency[/td][td]12.4[/td][td]12.9[/td] [td]12.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Decisions[/td][td]11.8[/td][td]11.9[/td] [td]8.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Loyalty[/td][td]12.8[/td][td]12.6[/td] [td]13.7[/td][/tr][/table]



Top 30 NHL Defensemen (by CA)
[table][tr][th]Attribute[/th][th]Daelh 15-maj[/th][th]Manimal 4.2[/th][th]1974 db[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]CA[/td][td]158.3[/td][td]162.2[/td] [td]150.7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DEF Role[/td][td]14.9[/td][td]14.4[/td] [td]16.4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]OFF Role[/td][td]16.1[/td][td]15.0[/td] [td]9.9[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hitting[/td][td]13.3[/td][td]13.6[/td] [td]13.8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Checking[/td][td]15.4[/td][td]15.3[/td] [td]15.3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deflections[/td][td]9.1[/td][td]9.3[/td] [td]9.0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deking[/td][td]13.1[/td][td]11.4[/td] [td]10.2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Movement[/td][td]14.2[/td][td]13.8[/td] [td]10.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Passing[/td][td]16.7[/td][td]15.9[/td] [td]14.1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pokecheck[/td][td]15.2[/td][td]14.9[/td] [td]14.2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Positioning[/td][td]15.5[/td][td]15.5[/td] [td]13.4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Slapshot[/td][td]16.5[/td][td]16.5[/td] [td]13.8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stickhandling[/td][td]14.6[/td][td]13.7[/td] [td]12.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wristshot[/td][td]14.3[/td][td]13.9[/td] [td]12.4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Aggression[/td][td]11.4[/td][td]11.4[/td] [td]11.2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Anticipation[/td][td]15.1[/td][td]14.9[/td] [td]13.3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Determination[/td][td]14.4[/td][td]14.2[/td] [td]13.3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Work Rate[/td][td]15.6[/td][td]15.1[/td] [td]14.4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Consistency[/td][td]14.3[/td][td]14.5[/td] [td]13.8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Decisions[/td][td]13.2[/td][td]13.3[/td] [td]11.0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Loyalty[/td][td]13.6[/td][td]12.6[/td] [td]16.8[/td][/tr][/table]

[nino33]

additional editing that I’m working on before releasing the next version, specifically
- Further editing of AHL/CHL players
- Adding additional WHL/OHL players
- Adding additional Europeans/Russians
- Adding Major Junior/Minor Pro Staff

I've been working on the further editing of AHL/CHL players the last couple weeks.
As applicable I'm adding draft info, attaching NHL contracts, and editing CA/PA.
When version 1.0 was released 15% of the players were done, while today 42% of the players are done

[nino33]

additional editing that I’m working on before releasing the next version, specifically
- Further editing of AHL/CHL players
- Adding additional WHL/OHL players
- Adding additional Europeans/Russians
- Adding Major Junior/Minor Pro Staff

I've been working on the further editing of AHL/CHL players the last couple weeks.
As applicable I'm adding draft info, attaching NHL contracts, and editing CA/PA.
When version 1.0 was released 15% of the players were done, while today 42% of the players are done

I have now completed 55% of the AHL/CHL editing!
85% of the AHL player editing/419 players done!

I’ve gotten a lot accomplished in recent weeks, but I’m currently taking a bit of a break from 1974 database editing (and I’m doing a bit of modern database editing, helping out with the TBL Rosters project).

[bruins72]

Nice work! I'm looking forward to your next 1974 release. Should be a lot of gun!

[nino33]

I'm looking forward to your next 1974 release. Should be a lot of gun!

Hockey was pretty violent at times back then, but no guns!

[bruins72]

No, they just smoked on the bench.

[nino33]

NOV 15 - I’m currently taking a bit of a break from 1974 database editing (and I’m doing a bit of modern database editing, helping out with the TBL Rosters project).

I'm very happy to say I'm back working on the 1974 database!

I can’t see an updated/better version being available before Christmas

Actually it'll be in January...I'm off (on holidays) December 22 - January 6 and not working gives me lots of editing time!



Regards

[nino33]

Work has been continuing on the 1974 database...


In the last couple days I imported almost 400 new (historical) major junior players and about 100 new (historical) major junior staff!

AND I've begun importing the history/stats data that XenHL has compiled! Previously only NHL players had history/stats, and they only had NHL/WHA data, but I've got 15 emails from XenHL, each with the history/stats compiled for an NHL team and a minor pro team plus a list of teams/leagues that need adding (and a few errors that were noticed and need fixing)...I've got 3 of 15 emails done so far since I started last night!


Merry Christmas everyone!

[CeeBee]

Wow... awesome work happening
Thanks again for the 74 db and merry xmas

[nino33]

I've got 3 of 15 emails done so far

10 of the 15 emails are done!

EDIT - all 15 are done now!

[nino33]

The “great deleting” has occurred!
I’ve deleted ALL of the modern players/staff in the 1974 database!
The player/staff total now sits at 3663 (3231 players).

I’m now back working on adding historical players to the EU (Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic/Slovakia) and Russia; mostly adding players to Elite Leagues but also some Juniors (and some staff too)– currently working on Finland, based on research I received from SharksAttack way back in August 2011 (thanks again SharksAttack!); it sure can take awhile to get to things HaHa


Happy Holidays

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Sounds fantastic. I know I'm looking forward to playing the updated database.