Problem with lockout database / Contract renewal problems

[Merla]

Hey all,

So I'm trying to create a lockout (permanent) database. I've managed to pretty much remove NHL/AHL by setting an age limit, hence they will release all the players and not sign anyone. Simmed through 3 seasons and haven't experienced any problems.
I've changed some foreigner rules in f.e. Sweden and Russia using ArtMoney so that there's enough space for all non-eu players. I've made the teams very rich, set their reputation to max (as well as the KHL to 20 in league reputation, Elitserien set to 18). But for some reason no team seems to be able to sign the non-eu superstars, like Crosby, Stamkos, Lecavalier, Richards, Kane etc.. so they will, along with about 50 other very good non-eu NHL players, retire after the first season as they haven't signed with any team. Why is this? The teams have max reputation, the league has max reputation, the teams are rich, no foreign restrictions in KHL...

Also tried with placing the star players in random KHL teams, but when their contracts expire they are released and no team is able to sign them after this. And they will retire one season later..

Any advice? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance.

[nino33]

My experience has been "the NHL wins" no matter what...I'm surprised it was just non-EU....it seems you may have stopped them from returning to the NHL with the NHL age limit, but with the 1974 db I've found no top players willing to stay in Europe/Russia in EHM regardless of the editing I did to Reputation/Salary/etc

Perhaps it will help to set the Adaptability of your NA players to 20 (though I found an Adaptability of 1 doesn't keep Europeans/Russians in Europe/Russia, so I'm not sure if it'll help) - IMO while EHM has "all the Leagues" everything's set up for the NHL to be at the top, and everyone else is at best a farm team to the NHL – the players may be "looking for the NHL"?

[nino33]

P.S. Are you sure your Salary Cap/Salary changes actually worked? I found no matter what I did with the Russian Elite League the game would change my edits at start-up…IIRC Russian stars couldn’t be paid more than about 2 million a year, big money given to Russian teams via the Editor didn't show up in-game, etc (i.e. perhaps in EHM top players are looking for the big money that "based on EHM programming" only the NHL can pay)

[Merla]

Thanks for your quick reply. Tried changing the adaptability as well, but unfortunately it didn't work. Looks like an impossible mission?
Ovechkin, Malkin, Gonchar, Datsyuk etc are all signed by KHL teams.. Lundqvist, Karlsson, Zetterberg signed by Swedish teams.. So it's just non-eu players that's not working for some reason.

Any other advice? Or is it really impossible?

Top drafted players like McFarland, Ekblad, Seth Jones etc join the KHL at the age of 20.. But I suppose they will start looking for the NHL when they turn 23-24 too. (haven't simulated that far).

[Merla]

P.S. Are you sure your Salary Cap/Salary changes actually worked? I found no matter what I did with the Russian Elite League the game would change my edits at start-up…IIRC Russian stars couldn’t be paid more than about 2 million a year, big money given to Russian teams via the Editor didn't show up in-game, etc (i.e. perhaps in EHM top players are looking for the big money that "based on EHM programming" only the NHL can pay)

Not sure actually. Surely I should be able to check this using the saved-game editor?

[nino33]

P.S. Are you sure your Salary Cap/Salary changes actually worked? I found no matter what I did with the Russian Elite League the game would change my edits at start-up…IIRC Russian stars couldn’t be paid more than about 2 million a year, big money given to Russian teams via the Editor didn't show up in-game, etc (i.e. perhaps in EHM top players are looking for the big money that "based on EHM programming" only the NHL can pay)

Not sure actually. Surely I should be able to check this using the saved-game editor?

I'd just checked in-game myself (it didn't take much to see my edits were not showing!).....did you actually edit each individual player contract?
My understanding is you can't just change a couple settings (like Reputation/Team Budget) and have the game do everything else, you gave to actually edit ALL the parts so they are all "set right" (i.e. apparently the total player salaries need to add up close to the Budget)

I've managed to pretty much remove NHL/AHL by setting an age limit, hence they will release all the players and not sign anyone.

If you're using this method to have NHL stars released from their NHL team...perhaps the NHL Rights are maintained when released, and thus they don't sign overseas?

tried with placing the star players in random KHL teams, but when their contracts expire they are released and no team is able to sign them after this. And they will retire one season later..

Perhaps you could set their contracts to much more than 1 year? The 1974 db uses 11 year contracts (I found 11 years to be the max for contract length, but I know of one user who apparently had errors occur with contracts over 7 years)

[Merla]

I'd just checked in-game myself (it didn't take much to see my edits were not showing!).....did you actually edit each individual player contract?
My understanding is you can't just change a couple settings (like Reputation/Team Budget) and have the game do everything else, you gave to actually edit ALL the parts so they are all "set right" (i.e. apparently the total player salaries need to add up close to the Budget))

No, haven't edited each individual player contract. Haven't changed them at all actually. But this wouldn't change anything regarding free agents?

If you're using this method to have NHL stars released from their NHL team...perhaps the NHL Rights are maintained when released, and thus they don't sign overseas?

Maybe. But at the same time, all EU players sign with european teams.. so why not the non-eu? Just noticed that when the reputation of the player goes above around 5500-6000, the players refuse to sign with a top KHL team. I looked at the free agents and set Crosby's reputation to 1000, J. Staal 3000, Edler 5000, Thomas 5500, Oshie 6000, Getzlaf 6500.. All of the sudden, all players except Thomas, Oshie and Getzlaf would sign for my temp. KHL team.
I wonder how their reputation would change if the players only play in Europe? If I set his reputation to 4000 from the start, would his reputation still raise to 6000-8000 even though he's playing in Europe? Will the youngsters (McFarland etc) have their reputation improved to above 6000? McFarland starts with around 100 in reputation and is, in the 3rd season, at around 4000..

[nino33]

nino33 wrote:
I'd just checked in-game myself (it didn't take much to see my edits were not showing!).....did you actually edit each individual player contract?
My understanding is you can't just change a couple settings (like Reputation/Team Budget) and have the game do everything else, you gave to actually edit ALL the parts so they are all "set right" (i.e. apparently the total player salaries need to add up close to the Budget))

No, haven't edited each individual player contract. Haven't changed them at all actually. But this wouldn't change anything regarding free agents?

I would think if the Budgets/Salary changes don't actually work then Free Agents won't be signed (because the teams can't afford them)

all EU players sign with european teams.. so why not the non-eu?

While I don't think Riz/SI programmed any of what we're talking about "on purpose" I believe they did do things that are affecting what we're talking about.....like my understanding is "language matters" (i.e. will NA players who speak no more than English/French seek to play in the EU?) AND my understanding is they also made EU players likely to return to their home country when finished in the NHL...maybe things like this (and more!) are affecting what you're trying to do (i.e. that's why EU players sign)

noticed that when the reputation of the player goes above around 5500-6000, the players refuse to sign with a top KHL team. I looked at the free agents and set Crosby's reputation to 1000, J. Staal 3000, Edler 5000, Thomas 5500, Oshie 6000, Getzlaf 6500.. All of the sudden, all players except Thomas, Oshie and Getzlaf would sign for my temp. KHL team.
I wonder how their reputation would change if the players only play in Europe? If I set his reputation to 4000 from the start, would his reputation still raise to 6000-8000 even though he's playing in Europe? Will the youngsters (McFarland etc) have their reputation improved to above 6000? McFarland starts with around 100 in reputation and is, in the 3rd season, at around 4000..

I've never dealt much with the SavedGame Editor's data, I did discover that lowering Reputation substantially (about 80 IIRC) with the PreGame Editor removed the dreaded "NHL Release Clause" from EU players....except that they still behaved in-game as if they have an NHL Release Clause!!! I mention this only to indicate that I've found even if it looks like something worked, maybe it didn't!!!

If I set his reputation to 4000 from the start, would his reputation still raise to 6000-8000 even though he's playing in Europe?

What’s the Reputation of top EU players? How does it behave? Does it start/raise to the 6000-8000 threshold? If it was me, first I’d see how EU players were/behaved and then I’d check if NA players were the same?

IMO the game is hardcoded/built for SI's understanding of the 2006-07 hockey (NHL) season, and it's a herculean task to try and get it to do otherwise (good luck to you!)...apparently many of these editing issues would have been fixed if SI hadn't stopped production



Regards

[Primis]

Merla which player rep are you changing, the domestic or international one? Is it a problem with international reps?

I'd toyed with doing this. I wanted to eliminate the NHL, I thought it'd be fun to take the old UHL and try to form it into a new startup league of some sort like the late original IHL circa 1998 or so (stealing some NHL talent at the start), tweak some other reputations, and see who ends up where. For one thing, I wondered if I could filter a lot more guys into the AHL and ECHL, not just the SEL, KHL, and Switzerland.

Like nino says, the game really isn't built to do some of what we want to it. In fact, in some cases it's deliberately built to foil it.

[Merla]

I actually changed all of the reputation and it worked quite well in the beginning, but when the non-eu players became "too good" (above 6000 rep) they retire even though the KHL has a reputation of 20 and the teams have a reputation of around 9500. I just can't comprehend why the KHL teams can't sign them.. It's the best league in the game and the players have nowhere to go, but still they choose to retire at f.e. the age of 25..

Also, just for fun. I tried setting the NHL reputation to 1 (removing the age limit), the NHL-teams reputation to 1000, make the teams pretty much bankrupt ($1000), remove some important staff etc.. STILL they managed to sign all the NHL players that were free agents.. How the f*ck!? The league is, according to the pre-game editor, the worst league in the database. The game seems, just like you guys have told me, coded in a way that the NHL will always be the best and most attractive league - no matter what.

So, I've pretty much given up on this now.. This project seems impossible. Sucks as it would have been so much fun playing with a lockout db until Manimal releases his new roster update.

[Merla]

Any advice on how to achieve a lockout for the first half of the season? The best thing would be to have an age limit set from the start, but then remove it in f.e. April/June before the stars retire.

[nino33]

I just can't comprehend why the KHL teams can't sign them.. It's the best league in the game and the players have nowhere to go, but still they choose to retire

I tried setting the NHL reputation to 1 (removing the age limit), the NHL-teams reputation to 1000, make the teams pretty much bankrupt ($1000), remove some important staff etc.. STILL they managed to sign all the NHL players that were free agents..

The game seems, just like you guys have told me, coded in a way that the NHL will always be the best and most attractive league - no matter what.

I share in your frustration; I too don't understand it...I would have thought a game made by those in the EU, with all of the effort put into the EU Leagues, wouldn't be set up the way it is


Regards

[Primis]

I just can't comprehend why the KHL teams can't sign them.. It's the best league in the game and the players have nowhere to go, but still they choose to retire

I tried setting the NHL reputation to 1 (removing the age limit), the NHL-teams reputation to 1000, make the teams pretty much bankrupt ($1000), remove some important staff etc.. STILL they managed to sign all the NHL players that were free agents..

The game seems, just like you guys have told me, coded in a way that the NHL will always be the best and most attractive league - no matter what.

I share in your frustration; I too don't understand it...I would have thought a game made by those in the EU, with all of the effort put into the EU Leagues, wouldn't be set up the way it is

My understanding is that the NHL (and some of the other leagues, even in other sports) pretty much demand that the game be inflexible as part of their license. They don't want users messing with their structure...

[nino33]

My understanding is that the NHL (and some of the other leagues, even in other sports) pretty much demand that the game be inflexible as part of their license. They don't want users messing with their structure...

That's what I've long thought/wondered about too...

[Doomski]

Too bad !

I would have really enjoyed playing with a working lock-out data base. It's very frustrating to see you can't avoid the NHL to be the most rated league in the game. It definitly kills the lockout database concept.

[archibalduk]

I've been encountering similar problems with the UK Elite League. The first problem is that a lot of players become unhappy and want to leave their teams during the regular season and so teams end up releasing them all. I managed to resolve this by setting all players' Loyalty to 17 (this seems to be the cut-off value - any lower and it isn't all that effective). This isn't an ideal solution, but it fixed the problem.

However there is a second problem in that virtually no players want to renew their contracts at the end of the regular season (99% of players have a one year contract in the EIHL). This isn't a financial problem - teams can offer well in excess of the players' current salaries. The problem is that regardless of how long is left on the contract, players just don't want to renew (when you offer a contract, they say that they don't want to renew at this present time). Even with just a week or a day until the expiry date, players just don't want to renew (this affects the whole range of talent in the league - from poor British players up to top imports).

I tried upping the league rep to 19, setting all players' Loyalty to 20 and Ambition to 3. But none of this works. Players still refuse to re-sign. I'm not talking about top NHL players, I just mean average British league players... I guess this is just a bug in the game. I did find that making the team a favourite of the player can improve things a bit. But I'm not going to go through and set this for each player - it's far too unrealistic and too time consuming.

I guess I'll just set all players to have a contract for 3 or 4 years in order to delay the inevitable.

[Primis]

I don't think it's just EIHL or UK. The game treats most every North American league below NHL or AHL this way as well. Even Major Junior seems to have a lot more team-hopping for no real reason. For instance, ECHL teams have turnover for sure, even on 1 year contracts. However there's usually 4 or 5 holdovers from year to year in most cases, and many times more. But the game instead likes higher turnover for some reason...

[archibalduk]

My brother (Calv) mentioned to me at the weekend that players' reputations play a big part in determining whether or not they will accept contract renewals.

He experimented by setting the UK leagues to 20 reputation and setting the team reputations to maximum (10,000 IIRC). Kovalchuk was signed with one of the UK teams, but my brother was unable to get him to re-sign. However, he used the Save Game Editor to experiment with Kovalchuk's reputation and when he lowered it to a certain point, Kovalchuk was willing to re-sign.

So perhaps reducing player reputations in the Pre Game Editor may go some way to helping resolve things (like Merla said) in relation to the UK/ECHL/etc teams. Although perhaps we'd encounter a similar problem to Merla's in that the players' reps rise over the season and once again they refuse to re-sign.