Coaching Style

[lemming3k]

Does anyone think coaching style actually matters? I've read previously that conditioning based is better for condition on the practice screen, but having signed a conditioning based coach I've just noticed he has changed to general! (I've verified by loading an old save, he has definitely changed from 'condition based' to 'general'). That's going to make it a bit difficult to keep the right coaches!

[comatose]

Perhaps his attributes changed and he became more well rounded

[lemming3k]

That's a possibilty, I just wasn't aware their style could change as well as attributes. I'm not sure if that means he got worse at conditioning or better at others things - and if it's the latter then he'd still be a good condiitioning coach without having that coaching style.
So that leads me to the questions:
1. Does their style matter? You could have a 'General' who is better at conditioning as he's good at everything when compared to a 'conditioning' coach because that coach could be really bad at conditioning but abyssmal everywhere else so still gets tagged as 'conditioning'.
2. What are the conditioning-based coaches based from anyway? Attack, Defence, Tactics are all obvious, but not the other ones on the practice screen.

[batdad]

Not likely, more likely you misread what type of coach he is and clicked on the guy below him. Style of coach does not change.

[lemming3k]

Not likely, more likely you misread what type of coach he is and clicked on the guy below him. Style of coach does not change.

I'll post a screenshot for you tonight.

[batdad]

Need two to show he changed. One before one after.

[A9L3E]

You should also check the attributes in both saves with EHM Assistant.

[lemming3k]

Need two to show he changed. One before one after.

Give me some credit will ya
And for those who thought I was batcrap crazy....

[comatose]

I would like to believe his attribute change (he has changed) made that happen. Perhaps style IS dynamic. Would be realistic. Coaches change up sometimes

[lemming3k]

I would like to believe his attribute change (he has changed) made that happen. Perhaps style IS dynamic. Would be realistic. Coaches change up sometimes

Possibly, though I'd like to know what made him a good conditioning coach, and I'm assuming he's still better than me hiring another conditioning coach as his stats have only gone up (and especially if the new guy could just change style too). If the style is dynamic then it can't be that important, otherwise you could just keep hiring guys that change.

[comatose]

If the style is dynamic then it can't be that important, otherwise you could just keep hiring guys that change.

This is true, haven't thought about that. Interesting thought, still though.

[Unknown User]

In the editors non playing staff has 2 attributes that are hidden:
Physical And Technique. If technique is above 15 I believe and physical is below 5? Then they will be technique based but if the physical goes up then they turn to general. I'm not sure exactly how it works but the combination of technique and physical attributes determine coaching style. So from what I've seen if he has 19-20 technique and any physical attribute lower then 15 he will still be technique, but if you go lower then that and have a decent physical attribute he will be general. Same with a high physical attribute and low technique he will be conditioning based. But if you have a lower physical attribute like 15-17 and a technique attribute over around 8 he will be general...

[batdad]

Not one of my coaches has ever had that happen. At least that i have noticed. Never thought you were batcrap crazy which is a very unneeded phrase, just asked you to post it and you did.

That is really interesting, will have to watch for this. Do not think it happened much in the older version of the game.

[lemming3k]

Not one of my coaches has ever had that happen. At least that i have noticed. Never thought you were batcrap crazy which is a very unneeded phrase, just asked you to post it and you did.

I'm being facetious of course. It did sound crazy. And I am so it's fine.

[lemming3k]

In the editors non playing staff has 2 attributes that are hidden:
Physical And Technique. If technique is above 15 I believe and physical is below 5? Then they will be technique based but if the physical goes up then they turn to general. I'm not sure exactly how it works but the combination of technique and physical attributes determine coaching style. So from what I've seen if he has 19-20 technique and any physical attribute lower then 15 he will still be technique, but if you go lower then that and have a decent physical attribute he will be general. Same with a high physical attribute and low technique he will be conditioning based. But if you have a lower physical attribute like 15-17 and a technique attribute over around 8 he will be general...

That's interesting.
I find that kind of worrying though if hidden attributes can randomly change and affect a coaching style - unless the style isn't important - but then clearly the attributes still are, and if that's all that matters for a condition coach then how can we know who is and isn't good at it? It's hard enough to find them as it is (and you can't search for them) and a general coach can have a higher hidden attribute and be better at conditioning than an actual conditioning coach.

[Unknown User]

I think generally you want to have a conditioning coach for conditioning.. As any coach with like 17-20 in physical should be classified as conditioning. If they change classification they were already conditioning so you know they have a pretty good attribute for it and I don't think it will matter to much. But if you want to be safe it says in the hints that the best conditioning coach has a Conditioning style and defensive style tactics. So you could just hire another guy with those characteristics...

[batdad]

Technical coach will be better than general for skill things. General will be better than Conditioning for skill things.
Conditioning only good for conditioning. Nothing else, unless have decent tactics rating.
General is the middle of the road good at it all type.

Now this is not to say Mike Babcock is not as good a coach in skill areas as say ... a tech guy like Dale Hawerchuk...just if guys are close you want the tech over gen for skill. And conditioning over skill and tech for conditioning.

[nino33]

any coach with like 17-20 in physical should be classified as conditioning.

My understanding is Physical refers to how much a coach likes to use physical players/tactics, and has nothing to do with conditioning.

When I first discovered EHM five years ago I spent many many weeks reading everything and taking notes/making wall charts...and I have a small cardboard wall chart regarding Staff Attributes, and that's where I have the explanation regarding the Physical Attribute


Here's some more from my cardboard wall chart on Staff Attributes...
- a higher rating in Coaching Technique means their practices tend to emphasize skills over conditioning
- a higher rating in Attacking means the coach prefers an offensive/attacking style, a low number a defensive style
- a higher number in Directness means a more dump & chase style, a low number means a passing style
- a higher rating in Free Roles means fewer defensive responsibilities
- Linematching refers to how well and how often a coach does it
- Tactics refers to the extent of the Coach's tactical knowledge (how clever the tactics are and how much "buy in" the coach gets)
- there's also PK and PP Attributes

Also the EHM05 Guide has some good general advice on Staff that's still applicable now I think http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/wiki/inde ... 2005_Guide

[giguer87]

Hum stupid question maybe but I really don't understand something.

You talk about conditioning coach, but how or where did you see if a coach is more conditioning or not?

Because I would love to add a conditioning coach to my hockey staff, but I don't know where to look. I look into is attribute, but nothing related to physical.

Maybe it's just me the problem...

thanks for the advice.

[lemming3k]

I think generally you want to have a conditioning coach for conditioning.. As any coach with like 17-20 in physical should be classified as conditioning. If they change classification they were already conditioning so you know they have a pretty good attribute for it and I don't think it will matter to much. But if you want to be safe it says in the hints that the best conditioning coach has a Conditioning style and defensive style tactics. So you could just hire another guy with those characteristics...

Well that's pretty much why I don't think the style itself actually matters, unless the hidden values are mutually exclusive ie they can not add up to more than 20, it doesn't make any sense as anything other than a guideline - but then if it can change we can never know -why- it has changed.


Lets say a coaches physical ability was 17 and technical 5 - the guys gets a conditioning tag.
Now his technical goes up to 12 but his physical goes up 18. His tag is now 'general' as he has a mix of both stats, but he's still better at conditioning by far, and in fact he's better than he was previously. So how can we say 'conditioning coaches are better'?
If a guy was 20/20 he'd be a 'general' coach, but cannot be any worse than either a technical or conditioning coach and is most likely better than both! So it can't be a hard and fast rule that conditioning style = better conditoning coach, it's just a guideline statement, and only really useful to distinguish between technical and conditioning, not general.

But as we can't see these stats, we can't even tell if the guy is getting better or worse or how he compares to others. I think that needs looking at really, style being dynamic can't work.

[nino33]

Again I don't think Physical has anything to do with whether one is a Conditioning Coach or a General Coach.
In the example above I suspect Berube went from a Conditioning Coach to a General Coach because his hidden Attribute "Coaching Technique" improved
Seems to me the difference between Conditioning/General/Technical could be based on just this Coaching Technique Attribute

[batdad]

The style of coach matters lemming. We are told by the game developer it does.

[lemming3k]

Again I don't think Physical has anything to do with whether one is a Conditioning Coach or a General Coach.
In the example above I suspect Berube went from a Conditioning Coach to a General Coach because his hidden Attribute "Coaching Technique" improved
Seems to me the difference between Conditioning/General/Technical could be based on just this Coaching Technique Attribute

That sounds more likely - it would be handy if a dev could come on and clarify since this appears to be dynamic. It's going to be tough to find and keep a conditioning coach!