Russia/KHL Editing

[Malone_is_AmericanFinesse]

So, I try to set a lot of limitations for myself to keep the game a little more realistic. One thing that I usually won't do is draft a lot of Russians (and other Eastern Bloc players) if they have a certain salary or a certain asking price. And in the current db I have, Andrei Vasilevskiy could not come to terms with Tampa Bay because he's making over $1.5 or $2 million in the KHL. And he won't come over.

I wish this would happen a tiny bit more often with some players. Has anyone experimented with this? Is it as simple as messing with their money over there? Because players that should be making a few hundred thousand dollars or more, only make $80K - $150K or so. Would raising the cap and budgets create the desired results in theory?

I don't mind messing with the KHL cap if I'm strictly playing in North America. Might put a little more risk in drafting from there (as there are a lot of super Russians in there as 18, 19, 20 year olds in the early draft(s)) and maybe even put a little pressure on your RFA signings...

Any thoughts?

[nino33]

With my 1974 database http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 116&t=9915 I tried very hard to keep Russians in Russia with limited success

Using The PreGame Editor to adjust League Reputation, Cap/Contracts, Favourite Clubs/Staff, minimum Adaptability, maximum Loyalty, etc...nothing kept the star Russians from coming to the NHL. In fact, during my testing/efforts it became apparent that the game will not allow a Russian League player salary above about $2 million (the game at start-up actually reduced Russian League player salaries when I tried to have them on par/greater than NHL salaries).

I think my efforts likely helped keep Europeans/Russians in Europe/Russia a bit, but they still flocked to the NHL

[Malone_is_AmericanFinesse]

Thanks for the info. Particularly, that salary info is interesting.

I don't mind Russians coming over at all. I just want the KHL to have more influence on young players I guess, so they don't all sign with NHL clubs or are a flight risk at RFA time...but it sounds like I'm asking for too much...not that it's a big deal...

[Alessandro]

Well, with the UUDB and the superpatch we tried doing it in every possible way. And with the current possibilities, there's no chance for it. Too much hardcoded stuff and too old of a core engine.

[Primis]

I once tried to rework the RSL into a global league with focus on each team's domestic players (ie, Berlin primarily German, etc). I included a couple Canadian and American teams.

And there was not a single thing I could do to get Crosby, Stamkos,etc, to play in the RSL. No amount of changing league reputations, or tinkering with other things, could get them to agree to it. At a certain player reputation threshold, they simply will refuse to stay. It's hardcoded. I then drastically lowered player reps and it worked, but it affected too many other things for my liking, and some of the players had their reps increase back and would never re-sign in the RSL.

It's really unfortunate how hardcoded things are. There are so many neat mod you could do in NHL EHM 07 otherwise.

I don;t think the SaveGame Editor lets you edit player reps so.... once a game is started there's no way to reduce player reps again, and that seems to be the crux of the issue.

[nino33]

At a certain player reputation threshold, they simply will refuse to stay. It's hardcoded. I then drastically lowered player reps and it worked, but it affected too many other things for my liking, and some of the players had their reps increase back and would never re-sign in the RSL.

I found that lowering Reputation (below 100 IIRC) removed the "NHL Release Clause" - but alas it didn't make a difference! Russian League players still left for the NHL despite having a Russian League Contract and not having an NHL Release Clause!

[Malone_is_AmericanFinesse]

Ok, so others way smarter than me with way better ideas have tried. I was hoping to just balloon the salary structure over there so they would retain their own players, but it just doesn't work like that I guess...because I remember some people ballooning the NHL salary cap and they would get commensurate increases in salary demands (UFAs demanding $9 and $10 million instead of $5 million, for instance). My thought is that that had a chance of retaining KHL guys, but I guess not...ah well...thanks for the good responses guys, appreciate it!

[idio3]

Well, I'm resurrecting this zombie thread to ask if there's a way to do this thing now. How can we keep Eastern Europeans at home?

[nino33]

Well, I'm resurrecting this zombie thread to ask if there's a way to do this thing now. How can we keep Eastern Europeans at home?

I rarely edit anymore, and haven't got a working 1974 database for the new EHM, but I suspect the answer to "how" is "same way as before"

The idea is now hopefully attempts made before will work better, because of changes/advancements made in the coding from EHM07 to EHM1

Well over a year ago IIRC Riz and I talked about this issue, and I noted how a very low Adaptability didn't seem to work to keep players in their home country/local area as intended, and I believe Riz was tweaking it (but I've not tested to see if a low Adaptability and/or an Adaptability of 1 will keep a player in their home country, especially if they're a Good-Top level player)

Another change with the new EHM is the finances are no longer hardcoded and can be edited using Archi's EHM1 Editor (but I've never tried to do so/tested how well things work)

I think the "NHL Release Clause" no longer applies to Russia like it did with EHM07...if I'm correct about this that's a step in the right direction!



P.S. As mentioned earlier in the thread, in addition to Adaptability and contracts/finances other factors that can be edited to help are Favourite Clubs/Staff and Loyalty

[idio3]

Well, I'm resurrecting this zombie thread to ask if there's a way to do this thing now. How can we keep Eastern Europeans at home?

I rarely edit anymore, and haven't got a working 1974 database for the new EHM, but I suspect the answer to "how" is "same way as before"

Well, I can safely say that this is no longer the case quite to the same extent. With the editor - a lot of things can be done. Not just Russia - every country can now be edited to not allow players to ship out to the NHL before the end of their contracts. Finances can be edited to make Russia richer than the NHL, as well as some other things of that matter. I've managed to add a fully playable Belorussian Extraleague using the editor and a lot of sweat (especially when it came to the schedule), added Belorussian U18s (all the teams) and some other fun things like this. The only pants thing are the records (they're completely jumbled up), but that's hardly a huge issue.

Save game editor is a whole another issue - to make any change the game has to be saved under a new name, plus I can't, for the life of me, figure out a way to move players between teams (changing the team displayed is easy enough, but the player doesn't show up in the roster ).

[Kiekkomestari]

I actually think it is pretty realistic that more and more russian players want to come over to NA. You can see now Shipachev going to Vegas, Radulov came back, Dadonov might be coming, Kovalchuk wants back. That is the trend. In my games, there still are many russian and NA-players who decide to go to KHL and it is pretty hard to get them back in NHL. I personally think that KHL is a sinking ship and young russians, born after the Soviet Union collapsed, will prefer NHL over staying in Russia.

[nino33]

I actually think it is pretty realistic that more and more russian players want to come over to NA.

That's very likely true for current IRL hockey (i.e. the TBL database) but I thought idio3 was thinking of a fictional world ("Russia richer than the NHL") and the 1974 database is modeling when Russians NEVER left to come to NA & thus the discussion on how to try to keep players playing "at home/close to home" via editing

[idio3]

I actually think it is pretty realistic that more and more russian players want to come over to NA.

I thought idio3 was thinking of a fictional world

Indeed. Putting aside all the comments about the future of KHL (which has been getting bigger and bigger every year and, momentary setbacks aside, is definitely going to be a serious competition someday) it's clearly weaker than the NHL now. I'm talking about the "alternative" world, where the KHL is already now similar to the NHL.

The problem that exists at the moment is that the clubs don't seem to spend their budgets . If I make them have a lot of money (pretty easy, really, just give them a tonne of TV income) - they still rarely end up spending more than 15-20 millions. I don't know why. They can and sometimes do offer (and sign!) $10M contracts for some top players, but it's not a common thing, and most of the teams seem to be composed of $200k-$400k 1 year contracts, sometimes with players even ending up in free agency. That's an issue that I can't quite get a handle on, though I have certainly already made the KHL a lot more competitive than it was in the past.

PS. If someone knows how to make KHL allow (as it does in real life) its players to play in Euro Hockey Challenge and Olympic Qualifications - I would really appreciate the suggestion. Because Belarus, Latvia, and Kazakhstan often end up missing out on OGs because while their WC squads are massively stacked with their "base club" players (Dinamo Minsk/Riga, Barys Astana) - their OG/EHC squads are not . They're full of "home league" guys with some Czech/Swedish/Swiss foreign-based guys sprinkled here and there. Is it an issue that can be fixed with the database? EHT teams have their KHL players (as they should), but not the other tournaments (Swiss/Deutchland/whatever cup, EHC, and OG Quals). I'll probably make a separate thread about it too...

[idio3]

Does anyone happen to know how to make KHL allow (as it does in real life) its players to play in Euro Hockey Challenge and Olympic Qualifications? I would really appreciate any help on the matter. The issue is that Belarus, Latvia, and Kazakhstan often end up missing out on OGs even when they have a very strong NT, because while their WC squads are massively stacked with their "base club" players (Dinamo Minsk/Riga, Barys Astana) - their OGQ/EHC squads are not . What they have in their NTs instead are "home league" players with some Czech/Swedish/Swiss foreign-based guys sprinkled here and there. Even if these teams brings a bunch of stars with multi-million KHL contracts to the WC, they can't do anything at all in the OGQs with their $200k max "B" teams. Is it an issue that can be fixed with the database? EHT teams have their KHL players (as they should), but not the other tournaments (Swiss/Deutchland/whatever cup, EHC, and OG Quals).

Is there a schedule/finance/competition flag that neeeds to be changed? Is this a reputation issue? I'd really like to know... Please, help!

PS. The whole purpose of Dinamo Minsk and Barys Astana's existence in real life is to be base clubs for their NTs. It's probably similar for Dinamo Riga (though I'm not fully certain about that), and if they can't help their NTs in their tournaments, they pretty much lose their purpose in-game.

[marksbros6]

Good one.

It's interesting because in my games as Team Gb players DO get released for internationals.

Are you controlling the national team or is the AI not picking the team? Not sure about the Euro Hockey games but it might be there's a real-life international break for the Ol. Qual. that isn't in the league schedule?

[Alessandro]

Does anyone happen to know how to make KHL allow (as it does in real life) its players to play in Euro Hockey Challenge and Olympic Qualifications?

Try rising the league's reputation. I fear there is a good part of hardcoding in these things, but rep kicks surely in somewhere.
For a fast test, set the rep at the maximum and see what happens.

[EArk]

It is also annoying, when you play the world cup, and have to pick 26 players a week before the tournament. It would be nice to have some open spots, for NHL players that still plays playoffs, like in real life.

[Alessandro]

It is also annoying, when you play the world cup, and have to pick 26 players a week before the tournament. It would be nice to have some open spots, for NHL players that still plays playoffs, like in real life.

Hardcoded stuff unfortunately

[nino33]

The problem that exists at the moment is that the clubs don't seem to spend their budgets . If I make them have a lot of money (pretty easy, really, just give them a tonne of TV income) - they still rarely end up spending more than 15-20 millions. I don't know why. They can and sometimes do offer (and sign!) $10M contracts for some top players, but it's not a common thing, and most of the teams seem to be composed of $200k-$400k 1 year contracts, sometimes with players even ending up in free agency. That's an issue that I can't quite get a handle on, though I have certainly already made the KHL a lot more competitive than it was in the past.

Did you change everything you possibly could that might be related?

Not just one thing (TV money), but everything that's possible so things "match up" as much as possible?
For example, the player salary ranges for different Leagues is now editable with Archi's EHM1 Editor, and every player in the League can be edited so they have an appropriate salary/contract (rather than expecting the game itself to react to a significant edit/change)

What I recall, as a "general principle" from years ago when I tried doing such editing, is you had to change everything you could that might be related (for example, with EHM07 you had to change the salaries too, you couldn't just leave them at "0" and expect the game to react as desired to edits made)




The other thing that comes to mind as a possibility (a guess! HaHa) is that perhaps how money is allotted/accounted for is coded in such a way that the "added money" (in your example, TV money) is considered by the AI as excessive/unrealistic and so the game doesn't react like you expect it to

I'm pretty sure Riz has used the phrase "sanity checks" in reference to things that are done by the game AI in regards to budgets, player salaries, etc (especially at startup - that's why Riz added the option to "Disable Starting Financial Adjustments" when you start a new game, on the Select Options screen that is right after the Select Leagues screen)

I also don't know how editing TV money works (never tried editing it that I recall)...is it a one time edit? Or do such changes last year-after-year? If it doesn't last year-after-year (forever) that might be why the game doesn't make significant/dramatic changes based on just TV money

[archibalduk]

That's exactly what I was thinking - try the Player Salary Ranges.

[idio3]

Did you change everything you possibly could that might be related?

Not just one thing (TV money), but everything that's possible so things "match up" as much as possible?
For example, the player salary ranges for different Leagues is now editable with Archi's EHM1 Editor, and every player in the League can be edited so they have an appropriate salary/contract (rather than expecting the game itself to react to a significant edit/change)

Absolutely. Like I said - I've maid the possible ranges higher than the NHL, and it did work - some people get up to (and including) $10M contracts after 10+ years in the same club, getting an extension (and a raise) each year.

What I recall, as a "general principle" from years ago when I tried doing such editing, is you had to change everything you could that might be related (for example, with EHM07 you had to change the salaries too, you couldn't just leave them at "0" and expect the game to react as desired to edits made)

I understand. The problem is that even when every single player is a regen, most clubs don't spend much more than $10M-$15M per year. No matter how rich they are in a particular year. Some teams can, sometimes, spend up to $40M if they happen to have a few "superstar"-level salaries on their roster ($5M+). Jokerit does it most commonly, getting half of the Finnish national team (and thus often dominating the KHL), but majority sit on their bags of cash no matter how big you make these bags . I think it might have something to do with simple unavailability of talent for contracts of this size, but I just don't buy it - if there was 20+ teams with "free" 10s of millions, there simply wouldn't be a single Eastern European in the NHL, and many at least second-line Canadians would end up across the ocean too.

The other thing that comes to mind as a possibility (a guess! HaHa) is that perhaps how money is allotted/accounted for is coded in such a way that the "added money" (in your example, TV money) is considered by the AI as excessive/unrealistic and so the game doesn't react like you expect it to

Nope, I looked into it. Some teams do spend everything down to a dime. And, in any case - TV money is just one of the things - competition income (play-off money and such) is pretty high too. As are the ticket prices/incomes.

I also don't know how editing TV money works (never tried editing it that I recall)...is it a one time edit? Or do such changes last year-after-year? If it doesn't last year-after-year (forever) that might be why the game doesn't make significant/dramatic changes based on just TV money

One-time edit, which then repeats every year in perpetuity. You can set the number as high or as low as you want.

[idio3]

Good one.
It's interesting because in my games as Team Gb players DO get released for internationals.

Are you controlling the national team or is the AI not picking the team? Not sure about the Euro Hockey games but it might be there's a real-life international break for the Ol. Qual. that isn't in the league schedule?

From the KHL? To Olympic Quals and Euro Hockey Challenge? Because those are my only issues. All the other leagues save NHL (obviously) and KHL (that's what I have a problem with) release their players no problem. EHT gets their KHL players too, which kind of kills the "scheduling" possibility (as EHC and EHT happen at the same time). I don't know...

Try rising the league's reputation. I fear there is a good part of hardcoding in these things, but rep kicks surely in somewhere.
For a fast test, set the rep at the maximum and see what happens.

Raise the reputation of what? The Olympic Quals? EHC? KHL? I'll try...

[idio3]

Hey guys, sorry about the EHC/Olympic Quals question. Seems like it's not the matter of players not being able to be called up - it's the matter of coaches being clinically retarded and taking "C" team to the games. It's probably the issue of EHC being right before the OGQ, though I'm not sure. I tested it with myself as manager of Belarus, and I had no problem getting the best players (from outside of NA) to come.

I apologize.

[Alessandro]

Hey guys, sorry about the EHC/Olympic Quals question. Seems like it's not the matter of players not being able to be called up - it's the matter of coaches being clinically retarded and taking "C" team to the games. It's probably the issue of EHC being right before the OGQ, though I'm not sure. I tested it with myself as manager of Belarus, and I had no problem getting the best players (from outside of NA) to come.

I apologize.

Are you from Belarus?

[idio3]

Yup. Grodno, home of this year's Extraleague champions!

Though after today's Russia match I think I might have had enough hockey for a while. Disappointments like this are pretty hard to live down...