Lidas Rosters 2009/2010 - New researchers

zyllyx · Post by **zyllyx** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:27 am

batdad wrote:I believe the formula is used in the worksheet that is posted somewhere here. It was done up originally by Shadd and has some tweaks since he did it. We are all going to find players that we are not necessarily happy with in the db. However, I think if all of our personal preferences for players were put in on an individual basis the db would be HORRIBLY unrealistic. In some cases for example...Johan Gustafsson would win the Vezina, Crosby (since he is the focal point of much hatred in some cases and love in others) would win NOTHING, Kopitar would be the best player in the league. Dion Phaneuf would never make a mistake, and conversely Mason Raymond would score 100 points just because he is fast.

So...to sum up...we are not NHL scouts, nor is virtually anyone on this site or anyone handling any of these rosters a hockey expert, even though sometimes we like to think we are. Therefore....the math formula is the best we are going to get. As I said...have a look around and I bet you find something about it in this forum. I cnanot recall exactly where, but someone will.

I get it, but there are egregious examples of wrongly-valued players in the DB that need fixing that go beyond simple personal preference. When a player like Michalek, for example, is waiver fodder for his whole career in the game with a nearly non-existent work ethic and single-digit determination, that needs to be fixed. When a Shane Doan is rumored to be lazy and high strung, that needs to be fixed. I'm not talking about wholesale changes to the players' ratings, just adjustments of certain key attributes to better reflect reality and real-life results.

The Lidas rosters are very well done and it is not my intention to slag them, nor is it my intention to play Monty Hall with my favorite team or players. I'm just trying to offer my observations because I'm one of the very very few Coyotes fans in the EHM community...

JesseBoam · Post by **JesseBoam** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:55 am

Sorry to say, but not only are you one of the very very few fans in this community, you are one of the very select few on the planet.

Sucker Punch · Post by **Sucker Punch** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:04 am

You can always just get the pre-game editor and fix up those that you disagree with. I just get Lidas and friends to do all the hard work, and then I tweak it to suit myself.

Speaking of which, thanks to Lidas and everyone involved for spending a whole lot of time performing a free service for relatively few people. Without you guys, the already small EHM community would be all but dead.

Anyone else checking the forums every day for an update/release?

Mortex · Post by **Mortex** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:02 pm

[b]You can always just get the pre-game editor and fix up those that you disagree with. I just get Lidas and friends to do all the hard work, and then I tweak it to suit myself.

Speaking of which, thanks to Lidas and everyone involved for spending a whole lot of time performing a free service for relatively few people. Without you guys, the already small EHM community would be all but dead.

Anyone else checking the forums every day for an update/release?[/b]

The only think I can do is to agree with you my friend.Many thank to Lidas and all people wha are involved in creating new database,it s hard work and other are just waiting for this.I am relatively new but I can already see hard work this guys are doing.I really appreciate your hard work guys....
Stay in touch and hopefully soon we can spend lot of day playing this game with new update...

For other people:please let them to what they are interested in and what they want to do....

Panfork · Post by **Panfork** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:54 pm

JesseBoam wrote:Sorry to say, but not only are you one of the very very few fans in this community, you are one of the very select few on the planet.

At least he can go to a Coyotes game with an hour's pay.

Anyway, yeah, that's what I usually do. I make small tweaks because there's no way I'd have the drive to do all the work Lidas & the researchers do. Just too many transactions, signings, and other deals to keep up with for me. Thanks Lidas.

Post by **batdad** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:17 pm

Yep I understand some guys are underrated boys. That is what the Shadd sheet does. Attempts to fix this based on what the guys do in REAL LIFE, not in EHM, and not in our own personal opinions. Is the sheet perfect? No, but it is better than having individual fans rate everyone. I guarantee you every Canuck fan out there overrates their players, and underrates the Flames.

Hopefully the numbers into Shadd sheet will help things along. The best example is a guy like Alex Burrows. But the reason he is underrated is every single scout report, every single season he has ever played always showed that at best he would be a borderline 3rd liner in the NHL and a borderline NHLer to boot.

I think you will find that with most guys who developed last season, that this season their stats will be improved .Nothing is ever going to be perfect, but like was said above...if you don't like how Johnny Oduya is rated in the database, feel free to edit it yourself and change his numbers to make him a top line dman, or whatever you think he is. BTW--He is not a top line dman, nor does he have potential to be one.

Just remember..don't edit a lidas db and then use it in a challenge. Must use unaltered db's in challenges.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:58 pm

I'm pretty sure that Lidas went through and updated the CA of many players. Seriously, guys. He's made a whole lot of changes since the last DB and I'm not talking about players changing teams.

zyllyx · Post by **zyllyx** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:41 pm

JesseBoam wrote:Sorry to say, but not only are you one of the very very few fans in this community, you are one of the very select few on the planet.

Actually, I'm not, but you know, why not just continue to perpetuate a lazy stereotype just because it's an easy joke?

On topic, don't take my posts as criticisms of Lidas' rosters. They're amazing and have done a lot to extend the life of EHM which is more than the developers did. Many thanks.

souamort · Post by **souamort** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:50 pm

Great work Lidas, we are all in your debt. I know the early estimations on release were around this time, any updates as to when we might be seeing your work released? one more week, 2 more weeks?

Thanks again.

JTavaresNYI09 · Post by **JTavaresNYI09** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:29 pm

Sucker Punch wrote:You can always just get the pre-game editor and fix up those that you disagree with. I just get Lidas and friends to do all the hard work, and then I tweak it to suit myself.

Speaking of which, thanks to Lidas and everyone involved for spending a whole lot of time performing a free service for relatively few people. Without you guys, the already small EHM community would be all but dead.

Anyone else checking the forums every day for an update/release?

I am lol, and I know I said this before but if you guys need any help I'll be glad to do anything to speed the process up...

Post by **CeeBee** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:55 am

I'll happily wait a few more weeks till all the teams prospects get done

Lidas and all the guys who are working on this major project get 5***** in my book.

There's a huge amount of work going on and it's what is making this game still be #1 in my books!!!!!

:):)

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:02 pm

CeeBee wrote:I'll happily wait a few more weeks till all the teams prospects get done Lidas and all the guys who are working on this major project get 5***** in my book. There's a huge amount of work going on and it's what is making this game still be #1 in my books!!!!! :):)

I agree! It's better to wait for a more complete update.

Panfork · Post by **Panfork** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:05 pm

bruins72 wrote:I'm pretty sure that Lidas went through and updated the CA of many players. Seriously, guys. He's made a whole lot of changes since the last DB and I'm not talking about players changing teams.

I don't doubt it. It's taken a long time, and he's got a lot of people working as well as himself doing loads of work. I only wish you could make the start date 2009, so Evgeni Malkin can stop being "the rookie of the year" when he's getting 100+ points.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:07 pm

Panfork wrote:
bruins72 wrote:I'm pretty sure that Lidas went through and updated the CA of many players. Seriously, guys. He's made a whole lot of changes since the last DB and I'm not talking about players changing teams.
I don't doubt it. It's taken a long time, and he's got a lot of people working as well as himself doing loads of work. I only wish you could make the start date 2009, so Evgeni Malkin can stop being "the rookie of the year" when he's getting 100+ points.

That would be nice but it's NEVER going to happen. That's something hardcoded into the game.

Post by **batdad** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:12 pm

And...Malkin has never won it in my games. Ever. But then again, I have never had him on my team..

leafsnation · Post by **leafsnation** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:21 pm

Toronto Maple Leafs D Mike Van Ryn just announced season-ending, and possibly career-ending knee surgery (osteotomy...same procedure as Steve Yzerman had). Done at least for season, and no word on whether he'll be invited back to the Leafs on a tryout basis once his contract expires at the end of the season.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=295000

Panfork · Post by **Panfork** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:32 am

bruins72 wrote:
Panfork wrote:
bruins72 wrote:I'm pretty sure that Lidas went through and updated the CA of many players. Seriously, guys. He's made a whole lot of changes since the last DB and I'm not talking about players changing teams.
I don't doubt it. It's taken a long time, and he's got a lot of people working as well as himself doing loads of work. I only wish you could make the start date 2009, so Evgeni Malkin can stop being "the rookie of the year" when he's getting 100+ points.
That would be nice but it's NEVER going to happen. That's something hardcoded into the game.

Yeah it's a shame.

Best thing we can do is back up everything a few years, including draft years and history, but that would take so much work every year. Sucks they're not making a new one, either.

Ovythegr8 · Post by **Ovythegr8** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:01 pm

One guy who must be bettre is Avs keeper Craig Andersson. He is one of the leagues best goaltenders IRL but in the game he sucks.

Post by **batdad** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:13 pm

That is an awful small sample size to base huge improvements on, what Anderson has done. Anderson is an okay goalie on a hot streak. For EHM terms here are how goalies should be rated (at least starters, some backups) in the NHL. Not necessarily in order within groups. Based on history and present, not just a couple of months.

Key goalie/franchise Ward Luongo Brodeur

Key goalies (poss franchise potential): Mason (CBJ), Lundquist

Core goalies: Backstrom Nabokov Turco Miller Leclaire Vokoun

Core goalies potential to be key: Price, Fleury

Potential Core goalies (Currently just starter ability) Harding Rinne Ellis Hiller Lehtonen Emery (here because maybe he gets it now), Dipietro (only if gets healthy...never will), Varlamov, Hiller, Giguere (if gets in right situation again), BRyzgalov (if ever gets a team to help him)

Starter ability today and not gonna get better than that: Khabilbulin, Anderson, Mason (Stl), Ellis (nas), Huet, Roloson, Mike Smith, Theodore,

Career backups/not in league/too old-Osgood, Raycroft, Deslauriers, Budaj, Howard, Niemi, quick, Ersberg, Auld, Nittymaki, Hedberg

These players should be rated in sequence top to bottom. Noone should have higher career potential than Brodeur...who is already at that potential. Roy would be the only one higher and not sure he is in the game. Brodeur, Luongo, Ward...set where everyone else is at using scout reports we can find, past history, and stats.

You cannot ever just take one guy and say he should be better in the game without looking at all the top notch and rest of the players. To do so is completely wrong, especially on a small sample size like Anderson's 10 games this year and 10 strong games last year. He does not belong anywhere near even the Fleury's of the world. Anderson is just a goalie on a streak---which EHM does allow for. Any plug goalie can get a shutout once in awhile

grossman46 · Post by **grossman46** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:25 pm

batdad, for key goalies you forgot Tim Thomas

empach · Post by **empach** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:29 pm

I agree with you in general, but you've got Mason too high. I don't think he should be any higher than Price yet. Price had a good first season too.

This of course demonstrates that not everyone will agree how a player should be rated.

Anderson does need an improvement, but it's too earlier to go too high. He needs at least good backup/possible starter ratings.

Post by **batdad** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:34 pm

Maybe you are right on Mason. Although I really think he will develop into the next one in net. Have thought so since I saw him play at age 16. Mason however, played basically a full season as a top notch goalie. Price has not done so yet. Mason is starting this season off with a bang again(albeit a smaller one than last year), Price is just average. In another year I would drop Price down to just starter. Oh and Halak is backup dude for life.

I had Thomas in at one point, and then split some categories up more and left him out: Thomas fits in core or maybe the top just regular starter with Khabi.

empach · Post by **empach** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:57 pm

Mason might very well be that good, but I'm usually of the opinion that players should only reach top ratings after a few years of top play. There have been lots of goaltenders who have had one or two really good years, not necessarily Mason good, only fall down afterward.

And I'm not necessarily saying Price and Mason should be in the same group, he was just an apt example of what I was trying to describe. And in the case of Price I think playing in media-crazy Montreal has taken it's toll.

For what it's worth The Hockey News had Steve Mason rated at No. 10 of their top 20 goalies for this season. Price was No. 18.

Post by **batdad** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:33 pm

Like I said, Mason may be a bit high on my list. Maybe he should be dropped to Core with Key potential.

Post by **Jypfan92** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:30 am

Bäckström should be key goalie.

And where's Kiprusoff

. Kipper should be key or core.