1974db Testing Results/Feedback

[MXD]

Hi!

I'm back with a few things I've noticed...

- Paul MacLean is the top-ranked player of the CHL Import Draft (double citizenship, France/Canada). Which is weird, since he plays with a canadian Midget team (Yarmouth Motomout Mariners).

- Ray Bourque is draft-eligible in the WHL, as opposed to the Q -- he plays for Calgary Gold. Don't know if you bother about this -- just thought I'd point this out.

SIDENOTE : That statline is probably the best I've ever seen in EHM

47 goals, 56 assists in 26 games. 266 shots. 9.96 Avr. Rating. 470 (!!!!) Takeaways.

- For whatever reasons, RW/LW Pierre Lacroix is available in both the OHL and the QJMHL draft.

- Derek Sanderson is listed as Swedish. He's from Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada.

- Tomas Surovy and David Moss are in the database. 23 pts in 39 games with the Nordiques for Surovy, 5 pts in 14 games for Moss (with the Nordiques as well). Don't know if you intend to keep them, just wanted to point out their existence. Frans Nielsen is playing in the NHL as well.

[nino33]

Tomas Surovy and David Moss are in the database

Fixed! Both now Retired.....Surovy I had actually made Invalid (more proof that EHM can put Invalid players back into the game); Moss I had just missed

Derek Sanderson is listed as Swedish. He's from Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada.

I just checked in the db now and it shows him as born in Niagra Falls, Ontario, Canada...IIRC Manimal posted about this already, and I fixed it then

For whatever reasons, RW/LW Pierre Lacroix is available in both the OHL and the QJMHL draft

Fixed (I think)...Lacroix didn't have his Birth City entered (Quebec City now entered), and his Nationality was listed as Canada/France, I've made it just Canada

Ray Bourque is draft-eligible in the WHL, as opposed to the Q -- he plays for Calgary Gold. Don't know if you bother about this -- just thought I'd point this out.

Fixed! I had a bunch of players on those Calgary teams at one point...probably about a year ago. I moved them all into my created leagues and somehow left Bourque behind (and as a result his CA was never reviewed like everyone else, so he was a 14 year old with a 175 CA!).....Bourque is now on the PreJunior Ones team, with a CA of 65!

Paul MacLean is the top-ranked player of the CHL Import Draft (double citizenship, France/Canada). Which is weird, since he plays with a canadian Midget team (Yarmouth Motomout Mariners).

I think I'm going to leave this one (though I'm open to the thoughts of others on this).....Paul MacLean (IRL the winger with the big mustache who scored 248 goals for the Winnipeg Jets in the 1980s) is in the database on the PreJunior Sixes, and he was actually born in Grostenquin, France







EDIT

Frans Nielsen is playing in the NHL as well

I've Retired Nielsen too (his CA is 86 and his PA -5).....I'm surprised he was playing in the NHL. When I started this project so long ago I had no idea players rated at 50% or less than the max could still make it to the NHL! I would have thought AHL would have been unlikely! Maybe this won't be such an issue once I add historical AHL players (NHL teams won't need to scrape the bottom of the barrel!).....

[MXD]

I think I'm going to leave this one (though I'm open to the thoughts of others on this).....Paul MacLean (IRL the winger with the big mustache who scored 248 goals for the Winnipeg Jets in the 1980s) is in the database on the PreJunior Sixes, and he was actually born in Grostenquin, France

That is exact.

I was actually wrong with that rule. I thought that an european player playing his midget/bantam hockey in Canada makes him ineligible for the CHL Import draft, but I noticed that Chris Gibson (current goalie in the QJMHL, Finnish nationality, played his bantam/midget in Canada) has to pass through the Import Draft.

So McLean being in the CHL Import draft makes sense.

[batdad]

Yes, 1986 is the cut-off year when starting in 2006.(that also means anyone born in 1987 or later should be available for the drafts. Perhaps even some late 86ers but I do not know the cut-off date there)

That's what I wonder about...the "late" birthdays - IIRC when I was young there was a cut-off part way late in the year, but it doesn't seem there is anymore from the research I've done

IRL, there is a cut-off date on guys being drafted or not. I have not looked to see if it exists in-game

Just to follow up, answering immediately after reading, so I bet someone already posted. Cut off is September 14 I believe Sep 15 to Dec 31 wait an extra year in the NHL draft. Junior drafts are calendar year.

ETA: And yes it was asked and answered by Nino the man himself, and then confirmed by the other man...MANIMAL! Way to go boys

[XenHL]

One observation about Paul MacLean: his birthplace is Grostenquin... I don't know, but I'd wager it was the base hospital at RCAF Grostenquin where (probably) his dad was stationed. And he probably only lived there as long as his father was stationed at that airbase.

Is it confirmed that he did indeed have French citizenship? If not, then it's easy, he only had the Canadian.

Finnish law may grant citizenship automatically to anyone born in Finland. If so, holding the Finnish citizenship might be why Chris Gibson had to go through the import draft; conversely, did Gibson play any early hockey in Finland? That might also have been a factor in that.

I don't know if French law gives automatic citizenship; what I do know is that my parents needed a special exemption to get married in France in 1975, which would suggest to me that they wouldn't grant automatic citizenship to a child of foreign citizens...

...anyways I'm digressing a lot from my point, that probably in the 1970s it would've been enough that MacLean was the son of Canadian citizens temporarily residing overseas, and that would be enough to allow him to play in the juniors here. Which also causes me to think: did they even /have/ an import draft back then?

[Manimal]

The solution on MacLean is to change the two citizenships. Have Canadian as his nationality and France as his 2nd nationality. Also make him declared Canadian (as he played in the Olympics for Canada). The benefit of his French nationality is if he wants to play in Europe. Then he would count as EU-citizen and not be a foreigner

[nino33]

Also make him declared Canadian (as he played in the Olympics for Canada).

I do not want to start editing based on what happens years in the future!

[Manimal]

Also make him declared Canadian (as he played in the Olympics for Canada).

I do not want to start editing based on what happens years in the future!

But he is clearly Canadian

[nino33]

The data entered for Paul MacLean is 100% correct as is....except for declaring him as Canadien based on what happens 6 years in the future.

There was no Import Draft in 1974! I'm prety sure there were virtually no Europeans/Russians playing in the CHLin the 1970s!
This issue with Paul MacLean is a "non issue" to me.
I have no idea what's going to happen with the Import Draft, but based on my editing and contract efforts I suspect at start-up there won't be anyone worth drafting; when it comes to things like the Import Draft as long as the game functions (and doesn't crash) at this point I'm happy!

[Manimal]

The data entered for Paul MacLean is 100% correct as is....except for declaring him as Canadien based on what happens 6 years in the future.

I am just saying that he should be available for the QMJHL draft and not the import draft. You don't have to declare him, just cswap places on his two nationalities

[nino33]

I am just saying that he should be available for the QMJHL draft and not the import draft. You don't have to declare him, just swap places on his two nationalities

Canada has always been first nationality.
Because he was available in the Import Draft, does that mean he can't be drafted in the QMJHL Draft?
Bottom line is for me, as long as he plays in the QMJHL and moves on to the NHL I'm a happy camper (whether he makes it to the QMJHL via the Import Draft or the QMJHL Draft makes no difference to me really)

[batdad]

Yes...if import, cannot be in Q draft. Same goes for the other two leagues. Import--could play in OHL or WHL as well.

[Manimal]

I am just saying that he should be available for the QMJHL draft and not the import draft. You don't have to declare him, just swap places on his two nationalities

Canada has always been first nationality.
Because he was available in the Import Draft, does that mean he can't be drafted in the QMJHL Draft?
Bottom line is for me, as long as he plays in the QMJHL and moves on to the NHL I'm a happy camper (whether he makes it to the QMJHL via the Import Draft or the QMJHL Draft makes no difference to me really)

In the test db, he is set up as French with Canada as 2nd nationality. This means he is ONLY eligible for the Import draft and can thus be drafted into any of the three CHL leagues.
If you swap places for nationalities then he will ONLY be available in the QMJHL draft

[nino33]

Yes...if import, cannot be in Q draft. Same goes for the other two leagues. Import--could play in OHL or WHL as well.

So the "army brats" from Canada who play hockey but were born on some base halfway around the world....is the base considered Canada? If not, do they have to "declare" before the Draft? Just wondering.....

[Manimal]

Yes...if import, cannot be in Q draft. Same goes for the other two leagues. Import--could play in OHL or WHL as well.

So the "army brats" from Canada who play hockey but were born on some base halfway around the world....is the base considered Canada? If not, do they have to "declare" before the Draft? Just wondering.....

IRL, this is not an issue as they have Cdn citizenship.
In game you need them to have Canada as first nationality

[nino33]

In the test db, he is set up as French with Canada as 2nd nationality. This means he is ONLY eligible for the Import draft and can thus be drafted into any of the three CHL leagues. If you swap places for nationalities then he will ONLY be available in the QMJHL draft

I must have done so the other day (because it shows Canada first in the current db)

[Manimal]

I must have done so the other day (because it shows Canada first in the current db)

[MXD]

Done simming the 2nd take on the 74-75 season.

I thought it was interesting to mention the following fact :

Larry Lund scored 63 goals, notched 75 assists and 139, on the way to the Pearson, the Richard, the Hart and the Art Ross. Also led the league in shots (434, 55 more than second place!) and finished 3rd in Hits, all the while scoring... 41 goals and 93 points on the powerplay (!). According to hockey-reference, the record for goals scored on the PP is 34 and belongs to Tim Kerr.

As a whole, scoring is quite high in the mod. I can't say that I dislike, considering the era to come.

[nino33]

RE Larry Lund
This is the kind of thing I hope gets cleaned up a bit with an Attribute review.......while Lund's 165 CA/PA may be reasonable, his individual offensive Attributes are much to high in my opinion (Deking 17, Movement 15, Passing 16, Slapshot 15, Wristshot 18). In one of my tests Dick Sentes of the San Diego Mariners won the scoring title one year!


RE High Scoring
If you can, can you let me know the season ending GAA of the top/worst goalies? I'm wondering if at the top things are OK but at the bottom there's simply to many really bad goalies (I started adjusting goalies with my first test because Parent was dominant but Dryden, Vachon, and Esposito were no where near the top! IIRC there's a number of goalies in the NHL whose CA is well below 120...they need a bit of a boost I think!)

[MXD]

Nino, my plan is to sim 8-to-10 1974-75 seasons WITH CAP, and 2-3 seasons WITHOUT CAP.

Then, take the one of seasons with cap, and play until roughly 1990.
Then, do the same with seasons without cap.

But.... yeah, I can surely do this == here is the data for the first season.

Season One

Points :
Larry Lund -- 125
Yvan Cournoyer -- 117 (as a Red Wing)
Jacques Lemaire -- 116

Calder :
Marcel Dionne (.... yeah)

Cup :
Islanders

Finalists :
Kings

D-Men Scoring :
Larry Robinson -- 82
Denis Potvin -- 73
Bob Hess -- 67
Ed Van Impe --- 61. Seems high for Van Impe, but he's indeed the best D-Men of a very strong team.

Goals :
Cournoyer -- 55
Kehoe -- 54
Lund -- 50

GAA, Top-5 (cutoff at 30 games)
Roggie Vachon : 2,05
John Davidson : 2,35
Don McLeod : 2,41
Ed Giacomin : 2,42
Billy Smith : 2,44
Amongst 2nd goalies, Gilles Villemure (1,86) and Dunc Wilson (2,17) are worth mentionning. Eddie Johnston did pretty much as good as Davidson as well (as his backup).

You said something about Dryden -- Dave outplayed Ken. Ken was certainly decent, but nowhere near the top and pretty much in the middle tier.

GAA (bottom of the barrel), cutoff at 30 games
Peter McDuffe : 4,03
Ron Grahame : 3,82
Cesare Maniago : 3,58
Al Smith : 3,64
Ron Low : 3,79

Many backup have pretty bad stats :
Christer Abramsson : 5,50+
Mike Veisor : 5,85
Jacques Plante : 4,56
Ken Brown : 4,83
Gary Inness : 4,68


Actually, it's not this obvious. Quite a big gap between good and bad goalies (SV% is a bit more revealing).
Highest GF : Canadiens -- 335
Lowest FG : Crusaders -- 162

Lowest GA : Kings --- 194
Highest GA : Whalers --- 338

Less worst than I expected at first and probably reasonable as a whole.

[nino33]

GAA, Top-5 (cutoff at 30 games)
Roggie Vachon : 2,05
John Davidson : 2,35
Don McLeod : 2,41
Ed Giacomin : 2,42
Billy Smith : 2,44

IMO B. Parent, K. Dryden and T. Esposito need to be here too along with Vachon.....

GAA (bottom of the barrel), cutoff at 30 games
Peter McDuffe : 4,03
Ron Grahame : 3,82
Cesare Maniago : 3,58
Al Smith : 3,64
Ron Low : 3,79

Reasonable....

Many backup have pretty bad stats :
Christer Abramsson : 5,50+
Mike Veisor : 5,85
Jacques Plante : 4,56
Ken Brown : 4,83
Gary Inness : 4,68

I think a bit of improvement edited in here (backups) would be a good idea....over 4.50 is to high I think

Ed Van Impe --- 61. Seems high for Van Impe, but he's indeed the best D-Men of a very strong team.

61 points is much to much offensive production from Van Impe! 16 points might be to much for him! HaHa
He was certainly the Flyers best defensive defenceman in 1974, but pretty much every other Flyer defenceman was better offensively!

probably reasonable as a whole

I agree!



Thanks MXD!

[XenHL]

Didn't Plante have one of the best GAA in the league when he was with the Oilers?

I found: 2 copies of Bob Fitchner (interesting, as I'm just watching game 7 of the 1977 Avco Cup final...)

And I thought this was LOL-worthy: Yaroslavl offered a contract to Frank Beaton!

[Moses Doughty]

Having simmed closer to the trade freeze a bunch of 17 year olds have been getting signed by the CPU(Id say around 15)

And still only 1 European CPU is offering to. Andreas Kallur.

[Manimal]

I have no idea what's going to happen with the Import Draft, but based on my editing and contract efforts I suspect at start-up there won't be anyone worth drafting; when it comes to things like the Import Draft as long as the game functions (and doesn't crash) at this point I'm happy!

That will be the point once you're done with adding the Europeans. In the test db I think there is a good possibility to find someone that can help a team. The non-retired modern players are good enough for that

[nino33]

The non-retired modern players are good enough for that

You are remembering that I removed 2400 modern players right?