1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by archibalduk »

nino33 wrote:To me this is good news as...
#1 You have managed to solve problem after problem lately with your "Patch Work" so I am thinking this problem will be overcome
#2 The 1974 db is not the source of the problem! I have to admit I was a little worried...

Good news! It is an offset/Patch issue afterall! I've been messing around with the offsets and the schedule now correctly generates for the whole season (and doesn't cut-off on 31 Dec anymore). 8-)

I'm running a sim now in order to check that the games actually take place. The fact that the schedule is now being generated for the whole of the season is very promising.

It's going to take a little while to narrow down the offending offset but I'll get there (and it'll be in the next CSD Patch). Note to self: It's somewhere between 0x5 and 1x0... :geek:
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by archibalduk »

It seems like I'm not quite there yet. I left it simming until October 1975 (season 2) and came back to see no games were scheduled for 1975/76. Also, it looks as though teams only played games until 31 Dec 1974 again. Still, the fact that the schedule for the first season is now fully listed is a good start. I'll keep on trying... ;)
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by archibalduk »

Hmmm so it seems I didn't find an offset afterall. Even without modification, the full schedule is listed at the beginning of the season. I must have been mistaken the first time around. I'll keep on digging... :**
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

archibalduk wrote:I'll keep on digging
As always, thanks much for your efforts! I've been working every day on the 1974 db!
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by archibalduk »

archibalduk wrote:Hmmm so it seems I didn't find an offset afterall. Even without modification, the full schedule is listed at the beginning of the season. I must have been mistaken the first time around. I'll keep on digging... :**
Seems I wasn't going mad after all. Looking at an individual team schedule is fine - it lists games for the whole regular season. However, if I go to the NHL league schedule screen then games are only listed until 31 Dec. If I go back to an individual team's schedule (after having looked at the league schedule screen) then the post 31 Dec games disappear from the list.

I still haven't found a solution for this. ](*,)
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

archibalduk wrote:I still haven't found a solution for this.
Bummer.....I wonder if it would work with a different start year? Like 1975? or 1976? I'm just wondering if something like the Olympics needs to "line-up" in some way (if we're just tricking the memory into thinking 2006 is 1974...maybe because 2006 is an Olympic year we need to start in 1976? Just guessing...)


Progress on the 1974 db has continued - I have completed the removal of all modern players with a CA/PA over 100, which took about 6 weeks and was mind numbingly tedious to do! I've also removed all modern players from the AHL. Currently the AHL has about 300 historical players in it. The task now is to move the 500+ historical players from their placeholder teams to their proper teams.

I've also completed all of the name changes for the AHL as well as Major Junior (WHL, OHL, QMJHL). I still need to edit (update) team colours, arenas, and finances.

Along with moving placeholder players to their proper team I am also need to complete the staffing of NHL teams

I was looking last night at Marek's Tutorial on HexEditing EHM (and I downloaded the HexEditor and tryed the basics) - I'd like to edit team/league history to remove 1975-2006 but the learning curve seems a little steep for me at this time (I have so many editing tasks to do...I don't want to get bogged down).

Progress continues!

Regards :-)
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by archibalduk »

It's great to hear all is continuing to go well. 8-)

I'm starting to run out of ideas with regards to the NHL schedule. I've tried all 2006 and 2007 offsets but to no avail. I've also tried modifying just the actual start date offset and not the offsets that resolve other issues (such as the WC bug, CHL drafts, etc) but this doesn't work either. I've removed all of the club competition history (I just left one entry relating to the 1917/18 NHL season) but this doesn't make a difference either. I'm starting to think that EHM isn't designed to cope with retro seasons. :cry: I'll try a few other pre-2006 start seasons to see if any of them work. I guess if all else fails, you could always use a 2074 start date. :dunno: :help:
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

archibalduk wrote:I've removed all of the club competition history
I'm curious...how did you go about doing so? Via the HexEditor as explained by Marek in his tutorial? If you used the HexEditor to do so, how long did it take you? I'm thinking even if the start date remains 2006 maybe I can delete the 1975-2006 history...


EDIT
Woo Hoo! I've managed to remove 1975-2006 history! Thanks much to Marek and his excellent tutorial! On my third attempt, and after some background reading on the basics (most of which I still don't understand!)....but it worked! Very cool...


2ND EDIT
And now I've been successful editing ("deleting") retired numbers! Woo Hoo!
:joy:
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

FYI I posted the following in the "Tutorials for HexEditing| thread as well...

Is there a known way of editing the team records?
Records like most team points in a season, or most shutouts in a season by a goaltender for a given team...

Using the tutorials I've been able to correct team history in terms of cups won, and I've removed retired numbers (i.e. Bernie Parent and Bobby Orr can actually wear #1 and #4).....but I noticed individual team records seem untouched (for example, the NY Rangers still show 112 PTS 1993-94 for "Most Points" and 42 Mike Richter 1993-94 for "Most Wins" by a goaltender).

I am aware of the record_config file that I can edit for NHL (league wide) Records and intend on editing it..... within the record_config file it says"Club Records are now stored in the database, they can still be added to this file by the user where records do not exist" - can I edit the club records stored in the database?

Regards

EDIT
Archi's provided an answer (yes!) and explanation in the Tutorials for HexEditing thread
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by The Leaf »

I just want to say that i cannot wait for this to come out; it will probably make my year EHM wise.

My question is this... How far into the future will you be creating players?
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

The Leaf wrote:How far into the future will you be creating players?
Currently the 1974 db has players as young as age 8, and I'm looking at age 6 and up...so there will be a dozen years of drafts available.
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by Honnegger »

Sorry if this has been asked before but since it turned out that it could be possible to edit the number of teams in a league will you implement the correct team number (16 [1973-74] or 18 NHL teams [1974-75])?

The second question is linked to the first: Is it possible to build a script that will create the new franchises like the San Jose Sharks or so (I don't think it's possible and it wouldn't be too sad if this is not possible, I'm just asking). Thanks and keep up the great work! :)
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

Honnegger wrote:since it turned out that it could be possible to edit the number of teams in a league will you implement the correct team number (16 [1973-74] or 18 NHL teams [1974-75])?
Hmmmm....and what would be done to the hundreds of WHA players? To truely create 1974 would involve a lot more than just changing the number of teams in the NHL (and given the amount of time likely involved in making such changes, I don't see it happening from my end)....I think those working on such changes are a long way from actually getting them to work in a way that would allow a more accurate 1974 - my understanding of the league strcture changes is that it is more about overwriting one existing league rules/structure with another, and not actually editing the rules/structure...i.e. you could only make the NHL/WHA like an existing league)
Honnegger wrote: Is it possible to build a script that will create the new franchises like the San Jose Sharks or so (I don't think it's possible and it wouldn't be too sad if this is not possible, I'm just asking).
I have no idea if it's possible....given that a db can only be edited by one person, and the work to create about 12 years of "background/history" is already into it's second year, I think it would be many years before I'd ever get to the point of needing expansion to occur!

Regards
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

Due to my ignorance of the Windows 7 “Run as Administrator issue”, in the last six months I have twice lost hundreds of hours of work, most recently at the start of September….I am happy to report the issue has been solved and that my efforts since then have been seen by Archi! I’ve emailed a copy of the in-progress database and he too sees what I see! Success!
So I thought I'd give a Progress Report/Update...


RE NHL ROSTERS (1974)
The main thing that has not changed throughout the last six months – the NHL starting rosters are done! Based on the rosters from 1974 editions of the 1974 Hockey News!
AND throughout the last six months there have always been hundreds more “historical players” in addition to those in the NHL
BUT everything else I actually accomplished was lost x2
BUT much has again been accomplished (since September)


RE TEAM NAMES
All of the NHL teams are historical teams (NHL + WHA).
The AHL teams and Major Junior teams (WHL, OHL, QMJHL) have been edited to include all available historical teams.


RE MODERN PLAYERS
It took about 6 weeks, but I have once again removed (made Invalid) all modern players
- with a CA 101-200
- with a CA 0-100 and a PA 101-200
- with a PA of -15, -14, -13, -10, -9, -8, -7 or -6
So basically there are no modern players likely to make any kind of impact/appearance in-game (2400+ players removed)


RE AHL ROSTERS, MAJOR JUNIOR ROSTERS, “MINOR HOCKEY” ROSTERS
BACKGROUND
The starting point was the original default db, and then user Pens66 created from that the 1979-80 db.
I took the 1979-80 db and started to modify it to be a 1976 db, but after many weeks…
I decided on a 1974 db
So my “starting database” was part 2006, part 1979-80 and part 1976!

What I needed to do (again) is determine exactly which historical players are in the database
, ensure their age is correct, determine what team they are on/should be on AND ensure a correct/age appropriate CA . The actual moving players about only takes a couple/few days, but the research and prep work (spreadsheets-Initial Editing) beforehand takes many, many weeks.
In addition to correcting age/CA the Initial Editing includes ensuring the Draft Details/Rights tabs are cleared, as well as clearing the Player Info/History tabs

The majority of this work has already been done
- 634 NHL players DONE
- 252 AHL players DONE
- 42 Major Junior players DONE
- 101 Minor Hockey players (Atom-Novice-PeeWee) DONE
- 93 European/Russian players DONE
- 535 players on “Placeholder teams” In-Progress
I am currently about 25% done going through the 535 placeholder players (almost all will end up on Minor Hockey/Major Junior teams). This task needs to be completed before a public release will happen.


RE STAFF
Currently some work has been done making the NHL Staff historical – there are 19 Chairman, 3 Presidents, 27 General Managers, 28 Head Coaches and 24 Coaches in-game now. There are 0 NHL Scouts and 0 NHL Trainers in-game right now (I made all NHL Staff Free Agents almost a year ago). I have spent many hours on this issue already, with lists of additional staff to create prepared…..currently I’m looking to at least have historical NHL Staff (and no modern staff appearances in the NHL) before a public release will happen


There's more in the works that I could comment on but won't at this time (things like historical Referees, coaching Attributes/play styles, Arenas, team finances, additional AHL players, and additional historical staff).
I can't give an exact date of when a public release will happen, but the knowledge that previous editing issues have been overcome is very good news indeed! I am quite excited!
Progress continues...

:-)
Last edited by nino33 on Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by Ogilthorpe »

Wow! That looks fantastic! =D>
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by Lazion »

nino33 wrote:RE MODERN PLAYERS
It took about 6 weeks, but I have once again removed (made Invalid) all modern players
- with a CA 101-200
- with a CA 0-100 and a PA 101-200
- with a PA of -15, -14, -13, -10, -9, -8, -7 or -6
So basically there are no modern players likely to make any kind of impact/appearance in-game (2400+ players removed)
I really recommend some sort mouse key recorder (like Mouse Recorder Pro trial -version)
You can go trough whole db in around one day, it saves your fingers from clicking. :-p

I'm looking forward on this project. :thup:
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by archibalduk »

Hey Nino - I took a look at removing the draft details from the database. I'm running a one year sim just to double-check, but it looks as though it is possible (and easy) to do this. I've posted some more details in my blog: http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 71#p130971

I'm afraid I don't have any program I can give to you at the moment to update the index.dat file (which is what you'll need in order to remove the draft data). However, I plan on writing an Index.dat Updater very soon (either this month or next) as part of my history editing work. I'll send you a copy once it's ready. In any event, I would strongly recommend leaving this task to last. This is still relatively untested territory and so it's probably best to apply the change after you've completed the data editing so that you don't lose any subsequent work.
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

nino33 wrote: my “starting database” was part 2006, part 1979-80 and part 1976
Lazion wrote:I really recommend some sort mouse key recorder (like Mouse Recorder Pro trial -version)
You can go trough whole db in around one day, it saves your fingers from clicking.
For every player the first step in the process was to look up the player using hockeydb.com and determine if the player was "historical" or "modern" - I'm guessing that something like a mouse key recorder wouldn't be able to do this...


archibalduk wrote:Hey Nino - I took a look at removing the draft details from the database. I'm running a one year sim just to double-check, but it looks as though it is possible (and easy) to do this.
That's good news!
archibalduk wrote:I would strongly recommend leaving this task to last. This is still relatively untested territory and so it's probably best to apply the change after you've completed the data editing so that you don't lose any subsequent work.
Agreed! For now I will continue to focus on populating the database with historical players/staff



Regards
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by XenHL »

Hi! Joined the boards just because of this thread. Very much looking forward to seeing this released. I wasn't yet born in 1974, but the period's hockey nevertheless is special to me: as a kid in the early 80s, I found a huge stash of one of my older cousins' hockey cards from the mid 70s, which he let me keep... this resulted in hours of fun for me, imaginary games played with cards, coins and dice!

Anyways, I had a thought whilst I've been playing the 1979 db: if it's of interest, I could try to create a player-photo pack for this db?
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

XenHL wrote:if it's of interest, I could try to create a player-photo pack for this db
It's a lot of work (just the NHL is over 600 players), but I for sure think this would be a good thing....what do others think?

I've thought about doing this too...I myself like the action shot approach over the face only approach. I've seen comments "against" the action shot approach because players change teams so much the pictures are quickly "out of date" because the team uniform is different BUT I myself prefer the action shot....and it might be cool for many to see action shots of players who are unfamiliar - what do others think?
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by batdad »

Pictures of any kind. IN this era, it will be hard to find photos of many at their playing age on the web. So it does not matter what kind of photo...just photos would be outstanding.
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by XenHL »

Well, it *is* a lot of work, but I don't mind: I think it'll add a nice atmosphere to the game! And I assume you don't need it next Friday? :)

I figured this is something I can do to help the end product be better, leaving you to the harder work that I think can't be shared very easily (I have some experience with it, I made myself a "KHL Hockey Manager"...)

Action vs Face: I can see good points for both sides, though my preference would be towards face shots. Not necessarily studio shots, though, like those draft-day photos, but where it's a picture taken in a game, but cropped such that you get a good view of the player's face. This has two benefits: one, if one can't find a good action shot but has a studio shot, there's no "continuity" problem, and two, in a full-body action shot at the small size used for the game photos, one would hardly be able to tell what the guy's face looks like!

I don't think the uniform question is an issue, really, so I wouldn't use that as an argument against action shots, but I do think it's important to see the player's face clearly! :)

If the 1974-75 season is set in stone as the start date, and if you can give me a list of the teams you've added to the NHL, I can start gathering the photos for this based on roster info I have at my disposal (hockeydb.com). Adding the birthdates to the photos' filenames would have to wait until there's a db available for me to look in, for the dates? Or have you another suggestion on obtaining the correct birthdates?

@batdad: I'm fairly confident that with a little bit of effort, pictures can be obtained... :)
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

XenHL wrote:If the 1974-75 season is set in stone as the start date, and if you can give me a list of the teams you've added to the NHL
The 1974-75 season is definetly "set in stone" as the start date. Regarding teams, if you go back to page 1 of this thread, the very first post (July 13th) lists the 30 NHL teams, and about halfway down the page on July 17th I posted further explanation......if you have further questions I'd be glad to answer, but I think these two earlier posts should answer your questions

XenHL wrote:Adding the birthdates to the photos' filenames would have to wait until there's a db available for me to look in
Actually you could start anytime - the 1974 db has 2006 as 1974, 2005 as 1973, 2004 as 1972, etc......basicaly you just add 32 years to Birth Year, so for example Bobby Clarke's birthdate would be August 13 1981, Wayne Gretzky's birthdate would be January 26 1993...


Right now every player who played at least 1 game in the NHL during the 1974-75 season is in the database.
PLUS there's already close to 1000 more players already in the database from/for future drafts (I can provide details if you ever decide to do more than the NHL)....


I suspect that the pictures may be to small/low quality, but the website hockeydraftcentral.com has "mug shots" of many of the players.


Regards :-)
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by Manimal »

nino33 wrote: Actually you could start anytime - the 1974 db has 2006 as 1974, 2005 as 1973, 2004 as 1972, etc......basicaly you just add 32 years to Birth Year, so for example Bobby Clarke's birthdate would be August 13 1981, Wayne Gretzky's birthdate would be January 26 1993...
But with the CSD patch you can use the real DOB's. Just age them with the editor-tool
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Re: 1974 db - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

Post by nino33 »

Manimal wrote:But with the CSD patch you can use the real DOB's. Just age them with the editor-tool
At this point the CSD patch does not work with the 1974 db. A 2006 start date has to be used. You can not use real DOB's with the 1974 db. As Archi notes at the top of this page, when a 1974 start date is used the NHL stops playing games and the schedule disappears after December 31st, 1974...after much effort Archi was not able to get this working (and he's now moved on to a draft deleter & the history editor among other projects) - at this point I'm accepting that 2006 will be the start date, but I'm hoping the history editor in development will allow me to remove all player/team/league history from 1974-2006
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