Challenge 42 - 98 TB Lightning - Discussion Thread

[Asher413]

It looks like the EHT is an error in World Cup years.

[saberhagen83]

Okay, season 3 is pretty much a bust at this point as well. Started off alright but after 10-12 games they went off a cliff, it's been brutal! We are only 8p from a playoff spot but the problem is teams above us have several games in hand so the gap will likely increase.

For whatever reason though, we are playing better ever since I was forced to bring up Brent Peterson from Cleveland. Fair play to the guy, he has been playing some solid hockey in the AHL and I've kind of been ignoring him cause he doesn't look anything better then what I have. But he has shored up that 4th line...for now anyways.

Edit: First big trade so far. Calgary wanted defenseman Cross, managed to grab Strudwick and a 2nd rounder in return. So far, looking like good bussiness. Cross was a pending UFA and wanted to test the market. Got a defensivly good player in return that will hopefully play well for years to come. Done well in the few games he's been playing so far. Now if only I could pry away any kind of goalie what so ever (good gosh are young half decent goalies highly valued!)...Puppa out long term (plus retiring after season) and keep getting Fernandez and Wilksinson injured, I have no backup at times.

[stone169]

I was beginning to think that my tactics were the problem, but I took over Cleveland for the 2001 playoffs and went 16-0-0 to win the Calder Cup. I don't think my tactics are the problem.

[stone169]

Right after training camp was over I fired Scott Parse (head coach) and hired Pat Burns. The team responded by finishing out the rest of the exhibition season strong. I'm really hoping that having Burns as head coach makes a difference during the regular season.

Starting lineups for the 2001/2002 season:

Tucker - Lecavalier - Renberg
Avery - Richards - Dumont
Zamuner - Whitfield - Selivanov
Cooke - Kelly - Bradley

Cross - Kubina
Mara - Boynton
Lydman - Sykora

Biron
Ranford

[stone169]

So after dropping my first 8, it looks as though the team may have turned the corner 5-2-3 in there last 10. Hopefully it continues.

[bede420]

My first draft is done, pretty happy with my picks! My defence core feels solid..
#25 David Tanabe RD
#85 George Parros RW
#93 Aki-Petteri Berg LD
#122 Pavel Brendl RW
#145 Mark Streit RD
#179 Samuel Pahlsson C
#205 Martin Chabada RW

Signed Brad Richards, Pahlsson, Streit and Chabada.. Hogue, McCarthy, Ranford, Samuelsson left the team.. Janney and Cullen retired. I think i wont do any trades, maybe trying to get a center/winger.

[nino33]

Hello everyone!

I'm looking for some information, and hoping you can help.....are you seeing top 5 picks often having to be 21 before they're even as good as a 3rd liner? It's a concern that was expressed on the SI Forum

Thanks to anyone who replies

[stone169]

Hello everyone!

I'm looking for some information, and hoping you can help.....are you seeing top 5 picks often having to be 21 before they're even as good as a 3rd liner? It's a concern that was expressed on the SI Forum

Thanks to anyone who replies

Well, I'm I just started Season 4 of the challenge.

Martin Havlat (20) drafted 5th and 5th on the depth chart on RW while starting his 2nd year in the AHL. Has done well when called upon with 2g 4a in 6 games. I've only called him up when one of my top 6 forwards was out with an injury. Was planning on having him start next season. Although much of that may have to do with whether Renberg resigns with me or not.

Henrik Lundqvist (19) drafted 3rd. Will start the 2002 season in the AHL, despite impressing in the exhibition season this year.

Ilya Kovalchuk (18) 4th. One of the few times I've signed a player after drafting them. I expect him to start in my top 6 for the 2002 season and to have an impact right away.

I'm not sure if this what you're looking for.

[nino33]

Hello everyone!

I'm looking for some information, and hoping you can help.....are you seeing top 5 picks often having to be 21 before they're even as good as a 3rd liner? It's a concern that was expressed on the SI Forum

Thanks to anyone who replies

Well, I'm I just started Season 4 of the challenge.

Martin Havlat (20) drafted 5th and 5th on the depth chart on RW while starting his 2nd year in the AHL. Has done well when called upon with 2g 4a in 6 games. I've only called him up when one of my top 6 forwards was out with an injury. Was planning on having him start next season. Although much of that may have to do with whether Renberg resigns with me or not.

Henrik Lundqvist (19) drafted 3rd. Will start the 2002 season in the AHL, despite impressing in the exhibition season this year.

Ilya Kovalchuk (18) 4th. One of the few times I've signed a player after drafting them. I expect him to start in my top 6 for the 2002 season and to have an impact right away.

I'm not sure if this what you're looking for.

It is/it's helpful

Essentially I'm trying to find out if people agree with this statement based on their experiences in game - "With EHM, you often have to wait until a top 5 pick is 21 before they're as good as a third liner"

In your case your players are still young/aren't 21 yet, but they're great examples as they're top 5 picks, and it doesn't seem they're likely to be "only as good as a third liner" by age 21

[Asher413]

Season 3 in the books. As with every other season, we rock in the 4th quarter (and 1st- nearly .500 in those two, .335 overall...), when this time I didn't want to win at all. Cost me one draft slot, and I may not get the impact D or G I needed.

The big turnaround actually came around the trade deadline- First in Jan, traded for Boucher in goal, and he seemed to click MUCH better than Skudra. sent Renberg out for Madden (and a 2nd rounder!) to help solve the PK and defensive issues and to open up PP time for young guys. Afansenkov (never made the NHL) and a 5th rounder for Delmore (Shore up right handed D.) Also signed Larry Robinson to be an assistant coach (can't discount anything in our turnaround).

Positives:
Aubin and Boucher. Aubin put up better stats as the 'man', but didn't improve attributes. My whole staff thinks there is growth left, hopefully we see it in the offseason. Boucher was the first guy in a long time to challenge Aubin for the top spot.
Lydman has developed into a legit #1 guy, and blocked a clean 166 shots (I know you little analytic people think it's a useless stat...)
Richards has arrived. 51 points, 2nd in plus minus at -2 (That's how bad we were). Can't wait for his next jump in attributes!

Dissapointments:
Mara: Kept growing, but he just didn't perform statistically. Hopefully it's just poor partners as he tended to be stuck with Bannister/Skiponstev.
J-P Dumount: Killing the AHL (41 points in 54 games), and only 2 NHL points in 18 games (with PP time). He wants to be paid over 1.8 million too... hopefully he reduces those demands as an RFA.
Pahlsson/Andersson: Guys who are supposed to be defensive forwards led my time in minus ratings. Yes, they had tough assignments, but c'mon.

Looking forward:
Keep letting my guys develop, keep hoping that a right shot D man or a good goalie drop in my lap. Sharp may be ready to leave college, and I have a large number of 21-24 year old prospects to join the team AHL or NHL.


Sorry for two thougths in one: My internet went out so this was going to be two posts:

NINO: 1999 draft Stefan (2nd overall) had 24 points in 54 games. (But he had a year of AHL experience pre-draft), and I had Daniel Sedin (3rd) for 47 points (used him as the 2nd/3rd LW, 20 of those points on the PP). All the rest of the top 10 didn't have more than 5 points or were not signed to NHL contracts first year.

2000 Draft: Gabornik (1st): 48 points in first year. Only other person on an NHL contract that played games was Ehroff (10th), but he only played 38 games with no injuries.

[nino33]

NINO: 1999 draft Stefan (2nd overall) had 24 points in 54 games. (But he had a year of AHL experience pre-draft), and I had Daniel Sedin (3rd) for 47 points (used him as the 2nd/3rd LW, 20 of those points on the PP). All the rest of the top 10 didn't have more than 5 points or were not signed to NHL contracts first year.

2000 Draft: Gabornik (1st): 48 points in first year. Only other person on an NHL contract that played games was Ehroff (10th), but he only played 38 games with no injuries.

Thanks

[stone169]

Sorry for two thougths in one: My internet went out so this was going to be two posts:

NINO: 1999 draft Stefan (2nd overall) had 24 points in 54 games. (But he had a year of AHL experience pre-draft), and I had Daniel Sedin (3rd) for 47 points (used him as the 2nd/3rd LW, 20 of those points on the PP). All the rest of the top 10 didn't have more than 5 points or were not signed to NHL contracts first year.

2000 Draft: Gabornik (1st): 48 points in first year. Only other person on an NHL contract that played games was Ehroff (10th), but he only played 38 games with no injuries.

You had two first round draft picks in the same year?

[Asher413]

Sorry for two thougths in one: My internet went out so this was going to be two posts:

NINO: 1999 draft Stefan (2nd overall) had 24 points in 54 games. (But he had a year of AHL experience pre-draft), and I had Daniel Sedin (3rd) for 47 points (used him as the 2nd/3rd LW, 20 of those points on the PP). All the rest of the top 10 didn't have more than 5 points or were not signed to NHL contracts first year.

2000 Draft: Gabornik (1st): 48 points in first year. Only other person on an NHL contract that played games was Ehroff (10th), but he only played 38 games with no injuries.

You had two first round draft picks in the same year?

No- this was looking at all the picks made early in the first round for guys who made the NHL as 18 year olds.

My 1st rounders were Sedin (3rd) then in 2000 Patrick Sharp 4th (not ready at all). 2001 will be drafted tonight probably.

[Peter_Doherty]

(I know you little analytic people think it's a useless stat...)

lol It's not useless. Blocking shots is good, being stuck in your own end so you have to block alot of shots is bad

[CJ]

Hello everyone!

I'm looking for some information, and hoping you can help.....are you seeing top 5 picks often having to be 21 before they're even as good as a 3rd liner? It's a concern that was expressed on the SI Forum

Thanks to anyone who replies

There's a difference if they're talking about the 1999-2000 drafts or 2005+ drafts. Around year 2000 they might already have manually placed attributes. The younger ones don't have them and we're less able to control how they grow from 13 year old to 17/18.

Stefan, Sedins, Gaborik all have manually placed attributes.

[saberhagen83]

Season 4 underway and just like last season we are playing decent or okay-ish hockey. Playing at .500 after Q1, and the positive is that our divison looks weaker this year. But I'm having some serious issues with injuries in this save, has something been changed on that front in the last patch? Constantly having players break down without being on anything special practice wise. Selivanov is out for 3 months, Traded for Vokoun last season and he has constantly been sidlined since coming in. Currently have 4 injuries going and just as one comes back you can rest assured another will bite the dust.

Will probably be another long, long season though. Our 3rd/4th lines aren't working, top 6 looks sick though. Here is my team this season:

Tucker - Lecavalier - Renberg
Heatley - Richards - Daigle
Zamuner - Langkow - Delisle (Selivanov injured)
Nazarov - Pahlsson - Bannister (Begin injured and no one else playing good enough)

Strudwick - Kubina
Mara - Sykora
Dykhuis - Niemi

Vokoun/Fernandez/Wilksinson

Decided to draft Duncan Keith, can't wait untill he is ready to go. Should slot in nicely on the top pair, but fear it may be a few years.

[saberhagen83]

I've made a slight mistake with the stats. Year 3 Q4 is a bit messed up when it comes to the special teams stats. I apparently forgot to upload my stats after the season last night and accidently saved after all the season stats were reset, so can only go back to the end of Q3. I've been trying to make the stats look somewhat correct according to the picture of the standings I have and using the stats after Q3 to try and calculate it all. So the % of PP/PK are pretty accurate, but the actual numbers might be a little off. All the other team/player stats are correct however. Sorry about that. Not that it was a good season anyway so don't mind any penalty I might be given.

[stone169]

4th straight year of no playoffs. Vinnie picked up 87 points, which is nice to see, but he wants to be traded. His agent says he can find better money somewhere else. He'll come around, considering he is an RFA.

I guess there was some improvement as I finished with 62 points. That final push came after trading away Tucker and Renberg (2/3 of my top line). After having a top 10 PP the previous 3 seasons, it was pretty pitiful this season. And my PK, which has been in the top 5 the last 3 seasons, was dead last this year.

Interesting though, I was taking a look at Lundqvists ability scores and he could probably make the team next season. I still want him to play at least one year down the AHL though. Kovalchuk will be on the team just in time for a serious Calder Cup run. He'll miss the first round, but I'm pretty confident that the team will make it past the first round.

[Peter_Doherty]

Done with season 2, team turned it around really nicely and finished 4th in the Conference. Sadly the season ended in heartbreak when we lost game 7 in the first round against Panthers

Stand outs this season were Tom Poti who proved to be a true #1 D-man straight away with a 63 point season (7+56, 7.63 Av R), Marc Savard who slotted in as my 1C and posted a 69 point season (24+45, 7.56 Av R) and Mikael Renberg who scored a whopping 47 goals. Vinny had a solid rookie season with 53 points even though his Av R was just under 7, my 2nd line was very inconsistent (Tucker... you all know how he is).

My AHL team has been lights out all season with 5 players above PPG (Davidsson, Gorovikov, Schaefer, Heatley and Samuelsson) and with both D-men Mara and Delmore just under PPG, Hutchinson also had a fantastic rookie season. They are still in their playoffs as i write this.

In juniors Brad Richards had another fantastic season and he's ready for bigger challenges, we'll see where he slots in next season. Pascal Dupuis also had a great season.

[Asher413]

Just had a frusterating 2001 draft

1(3): Kovalchuk. Not what I needed at all, but he shockingly fell this far. Really wanted Rinne, expected to have to take Keith, but couldn't pass him up. I have too many offensive sniper wingers now if they all develop.

2(33): Niemi. Needed goaltending, my scouts recommended Emery, but all rated Niemi like "Burke". I'll take that.

2(60): Nystrom: In my mind every top 4 defenesmen according to my scouts (and my memory of players) was gone. GRRR. Hopefully another good defensive forward to balance my team of Kovalchuks.

4(93): Chris Eade: This is how bad the defenesmen options were- I was considering him as the best D-man on the board at 60. No. 7 potential.

Rest of AHL at best group: Jarkko Pyymaki, Duncan Milroy, Gullaue Lefebvre, Anatoly Teplyakov, Andrej Filip.

I'll be happy if I get 4 players to the NHL from this draft, but I'm expecting 3 at best.

[stone169]

I really wasn't a big fan of the 2001 draft. I had no 2nd round pick at all, which probably hurt me. Here was my draft:

Ilya Kovalchuk (4th)
Eric Nystrom (62nd)
Colby Armstrong (64th)
Teemu Sainomaa (93rd)
Garth Murray (94th)
Kiel McLeod (124th)
Bobby Naylor (154th)
Jerry Bokwall (184th)

I expect Kovalchuk to start in 2002. Nystrom is still in college, and I'll keep him there. At some point I expect him to fill out my bottom 6. I was a little surprised to see Armstrong go in the 3rd round. I expect him to play on my 3rd line and PK and may see time up and down the lineup as well. He'll spend a bit of time down in the AHL. Other than that, one or two others on that list may get a chance to play in Cleveland, but doubt it.

On another note. I had a big scare in the 2nd round of the AHL playoffs. Hamilton took me to 7 games. Kovalchuk has 2g 1a in 7 games. Really not what I was hoping for, but at the same time I don't have a Lecavalier or Richards feeding him the puck down in Cleveland.

Managed to get Lecavalier signed to a 3 year deal. Now I just have to prove to him that this team can be a winner (at some point).

I am looking forward to the 2002 draft. Already have my sights set on Giordano.

[bruins72]

I've made a slight mistake with the stats. Year 3 Q4 is a bit messed up when it comes to the special teams stats. I apparently forgot to upload my stats after the season last night and accidently saved after all the season stats were reset, so can only go back to the end of Q3. I've been trying to make the stats look somewhat correct according to the picture of the standings I have and using the stats after Q3 to try and calculate it all. So the % of PP/PK are pretty accurate, but the actual numbers might be a little off. All the other team/player stats are correct however. Sorry about that. Not that it was a good season anyway so don't mind any penalty I might be given.

That's okay. It should all work out.

[bruins72]

So over the weekend, I experimented a little bit with the original save for the challenge. I tried to keep the younger players in the minors or junior if at all possible. I also let the coach decide the tactics (just for my test). At the end of the first season, I finished in the same position that I finished in my challenge game (4th worst in the league) and only a handful of wins behind what I did. So playing guys like Lecavalier in the first season just wasn't worth it. If anything, it probably hurt their development. That's a lesson for me moving forward.

The other thing I decided is that I'm pretty bad with tactics. When I assign individual tactics to my players, I think I'm botching things. So I went back to my challenge game to test it out. I cleared all individual tactics from my players (other than shoot/pass, fighting, and join rush) and used some of the default tactics that the game offers. It's only been a handful of games but I've got a couple wins in those games and my losses were close games. I'm almost at the 60 game mark of season 3. I think I'll stick with this method for the rest of the season and see how it goes.

Oh and I had the European Hockey Tour take my players again, just for a few games in February of 2001.

[nino33]

Hello everyone!

I'm looking for some information, and hoping you can help.....are you seeing top 5 picks often having to be 21 before they're even as good as a 3rd liner? It's a concern that was expressed on the SI Forum

Thanks to anyone who replies

There's a difference if they're talking about the 1999-2000 drafts or 2005+ drafts. Around year 2000 they might already have manually placed attributes. The younger ones don't have them and we're less able to control how they grow from 13 year old to 17/18.

Stefan, Sedins, Gaborik all have manually placed attributes.

FYI - the person isn't using/referring to the 1998 DB, they're claiming it's a general EHM issue with development. Part of their claims have already been shown to be not true (I think their basis is exclusively online play from a database started before the 1.1 and 1.2 updates) http://community.sigames.com/showthread ... evelopment

I asked in this thread because I knew that we had a group of players that would have familiarity with young players/top picks developing (and thought it wouldn't be hard to determine if "not even as good as a 3rd liner at 21" was an actual concern)

[bruins72]

I don't know if that person's statement is true but I do think player development has changed quite a bit in recent updates. Attribute development used to be a gradual thing, even for young players. Now it seems that young players will keep the same stats for a year or two and "pop. Suddenly they'll have much improved stats. Brad Richards was a prime example of this for me. Since the start of the game, the scouts liked him but he might have had one or two green technical attributes. It seemed to stay stagnant. Heading into the 2000-2001 season, I decided to trade him since he wasn't developing. Now less than a season later, he's a stud. All of his technical attributes are green (some high like 17) except for 4 that are orange.