Player attributes and development

[lemming3k]

I've only been looking at my current game and players as most people use 1-20 and I didn't think it was a fair comparison to use other peoples games or compare this game to a new one as there can be a slight variation on attributes (you may not see this on a 1-20 scale as only their sub levels change I believe).

I have though just done a holiday test to check using the default General schedule and a screenshot of OELs initial mental stats.

Mental attributes on the practice screen are still grey(apart from teamwork) for all players, but they HAVE increased for OEL.
Game started September 2014 and I'm back on December 16th 2014 (got impatient). OEL has added 5 points each to anticipation and creativity.

I took a second screenshot and ran until 6th June on a Def Skill schedule for OEL, 1 intense, the rest medium. I also this time took a screenshot of the mental attributes page on the practice schedule for the entire team.
This time OEL has no changes, but one or two other members of the team have changed in one or two places going up or down by 5 points(Doan dropped 5 in anticipation & influence for example). Again though, all the mental attributes are grey suggesting no changes. It's also weird that they are all 5 point changes, no less, no more (actually wouldn't that be the equivalent of 1 point on a 1-20 scale? So perhaps they only change in whole levels?)

I have taken over 6 AI teams at this point, and all are also grey in these areas on the practice screen, implying not one change across 7 teams.
I could keep going, but I think that's probably a large enough sample that there should be a red or green in there somewhere and there are definite changes taking place.

Whilst I can confirm these attributes do change, I find it hard to believe this isn't a display bug on the practice screen not showing the increases/decreases for certain mental stats like anticipation, influence, creativity. As I say, if anyone else is running 1-99 and has a screenshot of this screen showing changes I'm happy to be proved wrong, but I check that screen a lot and see other changes but not these. Perhaps that's the issue, they jump in whole levels on a 1-20 scale, but these aren't whole levels on 1-99 so they just stay grey? Teamwork by contrast goes up in sub-levels (single points on 1-99) so seems to display correctly with reds and greens.

Well, that's my testing anyway.

[batdad]

*yes slight variation between the scales. but if you divide the 100 scale by 5 you get the 20 scale for the most part. Simple math.
*yes what you state re 5 point drop on 100 scale would be eqaul to 1. If started at just between 85 and 86 and dropped to just between 80 and 81 may not register that as a full point change, depending on where he lies in the 80 range? 80.6 maybe? I dunno.
*again though testing on a team with a human manger, which development is different from ai manager. EVen if on vacation.
*doan influence dropping not a shocker--dude is so old.
*Hmm...that AI managed team is interesting. All 6 no changes?
*again short time frame though. vacation for 5 years. not 5 months.

Try all on intense practice schedule, with super coach...20s in everything if you can create one. LOL.


Really hard to say as doing short term studies. I would not expect many of the mentals to go up in short term as more based on maturity than practice schedules. Anticipation yes ccan be affected and has been. Slow though, as expected in EHM EA.

*really the only attributes you have confirmed changing are Anticipation, Creativity-2 things affected by practice/games AND influence--affected by aging process.

I have heard bravery changes depending on where you play the guy (pk can help that, but not much else.

We shall see over longer term career studies.


*my suggestion is change to 1-20 to see if the drop by 5 or addition by 5 correlates to 1 increase in the 1-20 scale. I believe it is just in GM preferences so should be able to change mid game.

[lemming3k]

Oh I'm not expecting a sea of massive changes, but I know one of team had changes (my own) and not one change displayed elsewhere? You'd think there'd be another Doaner out there somewhere and I only took them over in June to look for changes so they had their own schedules in place since September. It's weird to say the least, I'm sure they are changing as per my own team but again, nothing in practice screen?

I don't think 80.6 level exists btw, I think the 1-99 display *is* the sub-levels from 1-20 and doesn't have any sub-levels of it's own. So where I see a 1 point stat variation at game start, you're probably not seeing it as it's a 17.4 > 17.2 change so it would seem the stats are 'fixed', which they kind of are but only on an overall level basis.
I'm not sure why they would only do 5 point changes/1 full level 1-20 scale though for some mental attributes, but now I know they're changing I'll take a note for next year on my current game since I check the practice screen all the time.
I might try changing to 1-20 when I spot a change to see if it then shows on practice.

[comatose]

Didn't riz say young player development was altered, in part due to the fact that the mental attributes were awful later on in drafts? Does anyone know how it was changed? I'd like mental tributes to grow until a player reaches 18-19 rather than just players generated with higher base stats. Maybe neither has happened, I haven't gone too far ahead since that update.

Also, I kinda wish PA changed. Would be interesting and kind of like real life. Some players genuinely change and what once were on the path to be first liners end up 3rd or fourth, or Daigle'ing. Likewise, it'd create late round gems a bit easier.

[batdad]

18 or 19? For mental? if you are going to do a progression of mental attributes it would be throughout the lifetime. I am not going to go look around but Riz had a ton to say on how attribute progression has changed in EA. But yea for mental it is a much older curve than 18 and 19. Smart 18 and 19 year old boys never mind hockey players are extremely hard to find. Maturity, etc..not there. That grows through life and is as much a physical thing (Frontal lobe development) as it is anything else.

PA changing would be insane. that would really lead to confusing drafts and busts and booms from the 7th round.

yeah and mentals should not even START to grow until a kid is 22. And decline around 36 or so, but slowly and only some of them like aggression and adaptability. Because we all know how as we become older we become less adaptable. RIght Cee BEe? LOL

[CeeBee]

No kidding batdad, your time is coming though

[batdad]

What are you talking about Cee Bee? I never said anything to you.

[Unknown User]

I've seen pa go up during training camp when a player is outperforming everyone else but it was only a minor increase 1-2 points when I was running some tests... I've noticed it also affects their development if they are under preforming or over preforming in training camp.

[CaptainM]

Is there a place that you can check how much a player has developed?

[lemming3k]

You can see recent changes in the practice screen - I believe it's under 'view' and 'attributes' you can then filter by attribute type ie mental etc - green means it has increased, grey no change, and red is a decrease.

Sorry I can't check the exact menu's right now.

[CaptainM]

Thanks.

[lemming3k]

Btw has anyone else noticed that a heck of a lot of draft players in the first 4-5 years are injury prone in some way? What's with all the sickly kids?

[helpie]

I noticed one of my players has gained anticipation and creativity, but they don't turn green in practice -> attributes -> mental. Would be nice if they'd add view/screen to EHM:EA like there is in FM where you could see skills go up and down in the player view screen.

[batdad]

Yeah...betting those injury things are not a big deal.

[lemming3k]

I noticed one of my players has gained anticipation and creativity, but they don't turn green in practice -> attributes -> mental. Would be nice if they'd add view/screen to EHM:EA like there is in FM where you could see skills go up and down in the player view screen.

Not just me then. Are you on a 1-20 attribute scale?

[lemming3k]

Yeah...betting those injury things are not a big deal.

Time will tell. Sure hope they don't matter but who knows. Does seem excessive though.

[helpie]

I noticed one of my players has gained anticipation and creativity, but they don't turn green in practice -> attributes -> mental. Would be nice if they'd add view/screen to EHM:EA like there is in FM where you could see skills go up and down in the player view screen.

Not just me then. Are you on a 1-20 attribute scale?

1-20 yeah.

[phatns2pid]

Nope--it will be displaying just fine, there is mention of a change or two above from someone. Attributes are not totally randomized for anyone, but those with -9 -10 etc Ca and PA--mainly young under 20 players will have different attributes each and every game. Those with attributes set to ZERO will have random for those attributes each game start up. There are players like that throughout the database.

It will not be a display issue. IT is just a process of learning the game and what does and does not work, change etc in development.

We do not know everything there is to know about EA development (just can go off what we know from 2007 and apply and adjust and go from there) THere are some changes, but not sure how dev is affected overall as not testing for that myself. Just from the notes of others and what I see in my game...SLOW DEVELOPMENT. Which is still better than overnight like 2007 (Right away) ,but is still TOO SLOW in the game now, and still TOO SLOW IN COMPARISON TO AI development.

I mean I See the shot of McKinnon above, in my game AI has him and his attributes? 6 dark green, rest of important ones for him are all 14-15-16. Difference between AI develop (AI manager and coach) vs Human manager AI coach and again vs Human manager Human coach is tremendous. Not sure what date those stats are from above for Mackinnon, guessing around December 2018.

Mental #s for Mackinnon in that game Dec 18 vs my game Jan 16???

ONly one mental attribute is different. In the shot above MacKinnon has 15 team work, in my game 14.

That does not necessarily mean team work develops, but I will assume it does.. BECAUSE....I believe all of Mackinnon starting mental attributes are pre set in game.

I haven't run into major issues with prospect development. I've restarted a couple of times with the same team, and I think there's just some randomization to each prospect's development. After a couple of years the same prospect could be an average of 1-3 points (20 point scale) different per attribute.

[batdad]

Never said MAJOR issues. Said slow. And you are incorrect, it is not randomization, it is very slow development which appears slower still because of the fact that in EHM 07 the players basically went from nothing to stud overnight.

[Mauso]

I got another question regarding development..what should I do with recently drafted players? Sign and send to AHL? Because thats what Ive been doing mostly. Some of them developed pretty well, others didnt. How should I recognize if it is to soon for player to move to AHL?

Also is it ok to let newly drafted players start in NHL? (players like McDavid) Because in my save, Tampa drafted McDavid in 2015 and let him play Eerie 2 more seasons, they didnt even sign him and I got him as a free agent then. Let him play 1 year in AHL while he was 20-21yo and now in 21-22 he was my 3rd center and ended up as top rookie. Would like the know whether this is the drill or it can be done the other way around

[lemming3k]

I got another question regarding development..what should I do with recently drafted players? Sign and send to AHL? Because thats what Ive been doing mostly. Some of them developed pretty well, others didnt. How should I recognize if it is to soon for player to move to AHL?

Also is it ok to let newly drafted players start in NHL? (players like McDavid) Because in my save, Tampa drafted McDavid in 2015 and let him play Eerie 2 more seasons, they didnt even sign him and I got him as a free agent then. Let him play 1 year in AHL while he was 20-21yo and now in 21-22 he was my 3rd center and ended up as top rookie. Would like the know whether this is the drill or it can be done the other way around

I'm not sure there really are any hard and fast rules, check their stats and their ratings, and their attributes to see if they're good enough yet. Try them pre-season and at training camps and give them a few games here and there to see how they perform (though obviously remember if you stick them on a naff 4th line they're unlikely to be world beaters).
Some just don't develop even in AHL, some do better with another year in juniors. Personally I do always sign my prospects that I want to keep as soon as possible and get them in the AHL if they're old enough.

I put McDavid straight into my team and put him on line 1 with two good players. He has been a star and developed great, but I doubt that works for every player.

[VonCurry]

So I got a question... what are peoples thoughts and input on putting players in juniors for a 5th year (sneak em in after training camp before they hit 21).

I've done this to Henrik Samuelsson, and depending on Duclair and Domi and their previous season I sometimes consider doing them too.

If their attributes are not AHL ready this is a safe option to develop them correct?

[batdad]

if you can send em down at any time, they are considered 20 year olds in juniors...so it is not really that you are sneaking. Players are eligible for 5 years in junior. 16-17-18-19-20, and many turn 21 during that season (january on)

But..to your point... it depends. How many 20s does the team that has their rights have? How do they do on AHL/ECHL side? How is the coaching in all 3 of those clubs? If they perform well in ECHL or AHL .... then do not send em to juniors as they will just stagnate in many cases. But if they post low ratings...back they go.

[Mauso]

Its me again, with another development/scouting questions

Im in season 2022-23 right now. And what is confusing me a little is scouting and the potential of player. Some of my young players are already really good, despite not being rated highly by scouts.

Take this guy for example...my scout (skills 20/20) rates him as a backup goalie ...although in team report he is No.1



Also another question connected with this matter. He was pick No. 113!!!! and I only drafted him, because my head coach and head of scouting recommended him at that moment and I took a close look and told myself he could be a good backup goalie (as that was his projected potential).

I am also seeing myself loaded with a lot of european prospects that werent even ranked or ranked very low, but they are turning into really good players. Im from Slovakia so I like to sign SK prospects in the late rounds And I already have 2 Dmans with very nice skills, one of them was 60th pick (only because he had nice defensive skills and I was afraid someone else could pick him, but maybe he would be drafted in round 5/6) and other one was picked from 160th. My question here is- What method you use to scout the non-ranked players? Because regional scouting doesnt seem to work out. What I usually do is, that I send scouts in europe strongest countries junior leagues, but sometimes even that isnt enough(for example that GK who was projected as a backup GK by almost all of my scouts)

[batdad]

Probably becuase it looks as though he cannot even stand up on his skates. LOL

However, what draft did you get this guy? EHM 2007 was notorious in having some missed regens in the first two drafts regens appear in. Also....sometimes, just like in real life the people in charge of looking for good players miss them.

SCouts are not always right my friend. We do not want them to be either. Takes some of the fun out of it. Guess it was a good thing you did not listen to him.