Sweden

[Manimal]

Fredrik Forsberg of Leksand has been cloned in the last update. There is one real version and one gray faced version, both have the same 13-14 42 game 48 point season. If only you could clone his brother Nashville would be very excited indeed!

It's the bloody Updater again adding imports to all with the same name and born the same year! Two different Fredrik Forsbergs got the same history entries(for some years)

[Shindigs]

That updater sure sounds like a joy to work with /end sarcasm

[nino33]

If Winston Churchill was an EHM Editor he would say "the Updater is the worst way to edit EHM, except for all the others"

[Shindigs]

Any ETA on that budget fix? When you play the game normally it's not that annoying since you just beat the pulp out of everyone except AIK, cause reasons. But I'm currently trying a new approach where I impose a lot of restrictions on myself and when Timrå has Ales Hemsky, AIK has Martin Havlat and Leksand has Radko Gudas and spams my inbox with trying to sign every single NHL Free Agent with their Infinite budget, it gets a bit silly.

They literally have more than twice the budget of all the other teams, and it kinda shows in the league table as you can see. It's not just that they start with more than all the others, they seem to gain like 30% more wage budget a year no matter how poorly they do. As VIK I have gotten the board to up it to 10M from 7.16M once, and that was after winning the league 3 years straight, only buying 100k a pop youth players. So we had like 30M in the bank for over 2 years and they went like "oh yeah, maybe we should give more budget!" meanwhile those three get more money no matter how poorly they do. Timrå even missed the playoffs 1st season, didn't matter one bit.

Also, not sure this part of the budget is also editable via the database, but at least Leksand (the only one I've personally checked as of yet) gets to use a max of 15% of their total budget on Key players, whereas a team like VIK only gets to use 10%. So say I want to sign my star player who scored 50+ points two years in a row and who is my captain, but he asks for 1.11Mkr and I have 2Mkr budget left. I literally cannot sign him, whereas if Leksand (and probably AIK&Timrå) was in that same position they could give up to 1.5Mkr, which gives them a HUGE advantage in that they can sign much higher quality Key players than anyone else assuming the same budget. Then add in that they start with 50% more budget (ish) than all other big clubs in the league and their elevated rate of increase to budget per year and they are literally cheating. Add in that AIK IRL was actually doing a very low budget season (presumably cause of rocky economics) and that Leksand were on the edge of bankruptcy until they pulled a miracle in the playoffs, and you end up with it not even being because of having a better financial position IRL. Presumably this problem will just get worse and worse until they eventually get such a bought NHL-veteran only team that they can get through the rigged SHL relegation playoff (in over 10 seasons across 3 saves I have never ever seen a single HockeyAllsvenskan team get into SHL, not even my team when I had a freaking 80% win rate in Allsvenskan)

[nino33]

Any ETA on that budget fix?

Next release will be in the fall for the 2016-17 season, so that's the ETA for all fixes not yet done (assuming it's something database related)

[Named]

Johan Söderström need manually retire.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=902

[Shindigs]

Team budgets can be changed.

Well, we're going kind of OT. In the DEL, for example, budgets are exploded. Teams are spending 3x what their editor budget is set, and they sign KHL players for 1 million or 1 million and a half...

Yet, the examples he talks about are visible in the editor.

I finally got around to getting the editor and changing the values for starting money and budget don't actually change the starting money and budget like you'd expect. I'd say I was surprised that something doesn't work as you'd expect, but really with EHM that would be lying.

So after about an hour or so of tinkering I came to the following conclusions:

- Starting money for teams is pseudo-randomized. A team that should start with roughly 750k $ can start with anything between 700k and 800k roughly. The actual range between the smallest and biggest in my test was roughly 98k, so 100k seems like the logical assumption for how big the randomized range is. Very possible that it's % based on the base size of the starting money though. This made testing changes a pain since you had so many overlapping ranges, making small changes completely insignificant in relation to the random aspect.

- The value for Starting money set in the Editor will make up for the bulk of the starting money of a team. They will very rarely end up with much more than 100k $ more than their set value, there are exceptions, but they require very large arena sizes to really come into play.

- The value for Salary Budget does absolutely nothing whatsoever. The setting that actually changes the Salary budget in the most significant way is "Reputation", this is why Leksand, AIK, Timrå, Mora and possibly a few more have way too much salary budget. Leksand and AIK both have 6000 Rep, Timrå has 5500, Mora 5000 and VIK whose exact salary we know since they went into bankrupcy and their salaries became public knowledge has a total salary in game that is so close to their real salary that it is just about spot on, have 4500 rep. Based on this the top teams in HockeyAllsvenskan should have no more than 4500 Reputation to avoid this issue with near unlimited starting money.

I tried to set VIK to 6000 Rep, just like AIK and Leksand have. Their salary budget skyrocketed from 999.96k $ to 2.17M $, this is the source of the issue. If everyone above 4500 in HockeyAllsvenskan was dropped to 4500, and the ones who were in that range previously get put slightly lower the issue would be gone. This would also reduce, but not remove, the issue of NHL players ending up in HockeyAllsvenskan, where they have no business being.

- Increasing the average attendance/max attendance/min attendance to values not supported logically will reduce starting money and if big enough, also salary budget. I set VIK to having 15000 max attendance, 5000 min attendance and 10000 average attendance. Their arena only holds 4902 (or something like that), this made them actually drop down to 2.12M $ budget. I then changed their fan support up to 19, from 9. This dropped the Salary budget down to 1.66M $ (which makes soo much logical sense). I then upped their Market Size to 19, this increased it back to 2.03M $ and finally I edited the arena to hold 15000 fans, all seated. This upped it to 2.23M $.

So to summarize the above, adding 1500 Rep increased the Salary Budget by over 100%. Increasing the average attendance/fan support/market/size to near max and over 3 times their normal arena size increased the Salary Budget by about 10%... What is this magical reputation, and how is it ten times better for your economy than having 10000 extra fans show up every game !? Does it give huge sponsorships or something? One thing if it acted as a modifier on the salary. But since it's apparently the main and almost only thing that decides how much money a european team has, it ends up needing to be set mainly with budget in mind. If it has any other fringe benefits I'm not aware of (which it probably does) those would need to take a back seat considering just how much the effect it has on Salary Budgets breaks the game.

So my advice to people who want to play the swedish leagues is this: Open the editor, any team in HockeyAllsvenskan with over 4500 reputation you cut down to 4500, if you want to go for overkill redistribute the other ones until their salary budget matches their actual salaries at the start of the game. This will slightly buff some of the bottom teams that don't have enough money. And severely nerf the top teams that have about twice as much money as they should. Another thing that you should also do is change Södertälje's Rep to match that of the 2nd highest team in Swe-3. Since they also start the game with 6000 Rep, meaning they have a 2M $ Salary budget in Swe-3, which is just crazypants. They normally end up with something like a 48-0-2 record and get promoted in season two, after they have had a fresh Free agency period to get SHL/NHL level players in Swe-3... After this they are instantly a top Swe-2 side until they inevitably get promoted to SHL and never drop back down again.

I haven't looked into it enough, but I'm about 90% sure that the Rep for SHL is completely off the rocker too. Since a few seasons in to a save, the SHL turns into the AHL/NHL with a majority of the key players being current/former NHL players. My first year in the SHL as Mora I got Talbot as my goalie, Rieder/Haula/Nestrasil as my first line. Those are NOT SHL players, 3 out of 4 are NHL players, 1 being a first choice goalie and 2 being 2nd/3rd line players. They should be on 2.5M - 6M $ contracts in the NHL, not 150k - 200k $ contracts in Sweden (to be fair Nestrasil was awful in my save, so he kinda belonged). But I haven't played SHL enough, nor do I care enough about it IRL to know exactly what level those should be changed to. Not to mention if you change the SHL, being one of the premier leagues in Europe. You also need to change every single other league in Europe down or they will become comparably more attractive, and that is more of a headache than I want to deal with. The butterfly effect of changing the rep in Swe-2 is comparably smaller, so that can be done somewhat haphazardly.

[Manimal]

Thanks, this is very helpful!
Team reputations was already on my to-do list as was budgets.
I will bump it up for priority and look at it very soon

[archibalduk]

It is worth noting that EHM 1 introduced a new financial rules table to the database. This is set on a league by league basis and/or a nation by nation basis (I believe the game uses the nation settings if no individual settings are present for a particular league). It sets things such as min/max salaries for goalies, defencemen, forwards, different staff, etc. Importantly, it also sets minimum and maximum wage budgets and a "spread" setting. The "spread" setting determines how the min/max range is spread across the min and max team reputations. I believe that other factors also affect the spread (I don't know what exactly). Once we have this table editable (I'm working on it), we may have greater control over team finances.

[Shindigs]

In continuation of the previous post (since you can't use edit in this sub-forum)
You have to have the Salary budget set to 0 on a team to make the reputation take over as a way to control salary, you should also put Cash on 0, otherwise these following numbers won't work. Also changing the reputation of one club also has effects on all others. So you have to trial an error back and forth until you find something remotely reasonable. Some teams (Sundsvall, Karlskoga, Asplöven, Pantern, Björklöven, VIK) are chronically over budget. As in no matter how high (within reason) you put their Reputation, they will still be over budget. Because they simply were over budget last season, presumably. I'm still not 100% happy with what I came up with, but it's a lot closer to reality than what I started with:

Reputation
VIK - 4600
Karlskoga - 4450
Timrå - 4250
Tingsryd - 4450
Björklöven - 4200
Leksand - 4150
Oskarshamn - 4000
AIK - 3300
Almtuna - 3500
Mora - 3000
Vita Hästen - 3500
Sundsvall - 2500
Pantern - 2000
Asplöven - 3000

Some are slightly higher or lower than I'd like. But since changing one changes all the others, and sometimes does so very aggressively. Say adding 100 to a single team can skew the salary of all teams by as much as 2Mkr each for the higher Salary teams, which makes it very hard to hit the equilibrium. But VIK:s salary matches their IRL salaries almost perfectly, the teams that really should be "in debt" as far as salaries go are (VIK, Leksand, the newly promoted teams) and most imporantly no one has 7Mkr or more left over to buy half a new team as soon as the save starts, nor does any team have a budget over 10 million (around 15-18 million you start overlapping the lower end SHL teams who have strangely low reputation) with this setup about half the teams are slightly overbudget on their salaries, which based on how close to bankrupcy Swe-2 teams seem to be on a semi-regular basis seems quite true to life. Most imporantly you dodge the "NHL zone" of salaries, with these reputations no Swe-2 team has enough money to get in NHL players, who all ask for 1.2Mkr-1.5Mkr for a deal with an SHL team, and about 1.7Mkr-2.2Mkr for a Swe-2 side. The team who is allowed the biggest salary can only muster about 935k. But since they are over budget their board would only allow in the region of 500k at most. At normal pace it would take until around 7 seasons in before the highest salary team would hit the "NHL zone", by which time you should have either gotten bored of losing or have been promoted to the SHL anyways.

[Manimal]

Can I ask you to make a test with the promotions and demotions included? MODO/Leksand and V ästervik/Asplöven should be similar but Södertälje /Sundsvall will be different.

[Shindigs]

Can I ask you to make a test with the promotions and demotions included? MODO/Leksand and V ästervik/Asplöven should be similar but Södertälje /Sundsvall will be different.

In my edited DB I just made Södertälje 2000 Rep to match the lowest of Swe-2 since they are the highest of Swe-3. Since they start in Swe-3 I don't pay too much attention to them. The 6k they normally start with is clearly too much, since that is more than both Karlskrona and Örebro in the SHL. Since Sundsvall is at 2.5k the lazy solution is making Södertälje that too. I'll change in Södertälje to Swe-2 tomorrow and see what changes make sense.

It should be added that something other than Reputation does have a somewhat large impact on Salary budget too (might be the city rep, will check tomorrow). But I'm not entirely sure what, part of why certain teams needed very high rep (Vita Hästen 2k->3.5k) and others quite low (Leksand 6k->4.15k) was since at the values I'd like them to be they simply had too much/too little salary budget. Another reason I put Vita Hästen higher in my numbers is that I intend to try and play them next since I used to live in Norrköping. But I don't play teams with upper affiliates, so I removed their Örebro affiliation, the issue being they don't have the budget to necessarily make up for the lack of loaned down players, so I needed to make sure they were out of the red. With that said they still only have 3.55Mkr budget and 3.5Mkr salaries, so not a whole lot of money to spread around>.>

[Shindigs]

Can I ask you to make a test with the promotions and demotions included? MODO/Leksand and V ästervik/Asplöven should be similar but Södertälje /Sundsvall will be different.

In my edited DB I just made Södertälje 2000 Rep to match the lowest of Swe-2 since they are the highest of Swe-3. Since they start in Swe-3 I don't pay too much attention to them. The 6k they normally start with is clearly too much, since that is more than both Karlskrona and Örebro in the SHL. Since Sundsvall is at 2.5k the lazy solution is making Södertälje that too. I'll change in Södertälje to Swe-2 tomorrow and see what changes make sense.

It should be added that something other than Reputation does have a somewhat large impact on Salary budget too (might be the city rep, will check tomorrow). But I'm not entirely sure what, part of why certain teams needed very high rep (Vita Hästen 2k->3.5k) and others quite low (Leksand 6k->4.15k) was since at the values I'd like them to be they simply had too much/too little salary budget. Another reason I put Vita Hästen higher in my numbers is that I intend to try and play them next since I used to live in Norrköping. But I don't play teams with upper affiliates, so I removed their Örebro affiliation, the issue being they don't have the budget to necessarily make up for the lack of loaned down players, so I needed to make sure they were out of the red. With that said they still only have 3.55Mkr budget and 3.5Mkr salaries, so not a whole lot of money to spread around>.>

Until we have the new rosters complete for MODO/Västervik/SSK it's quite pointless to make any changes. Modo will need to be dropped from 7k to sub 5k, that's for sure. Are Västervik considered a fully pro club IRL? The editor has them as semi-pro. Also their rep of 1500 would need to be upped to at least 2k, but until the new rosters are in it's kind of pointless to do this since the actual size of their salaries currently are in no way representative of what they will be next season, making any balance I hit under the current circumstances quite pointless since it will get skewed as soon as the new rosters are in. But I expect SSK to end up in the 2.5-3.5k range, Västervik 2k, maybe 2.5k at best. and MODO probably around 4600, VIK would also need to be tuned down to maybe like 3k-3.5k since they have no budget to work with for next year and will mainly be using their very deep pool of prospects, as they have signed a fair few of them to the first team over the summer.

It would only take a few hours at most to balance the books once the new rosters are in place though. It's a bit annoying that you have to start a new game with a GM added to every team every time you make a change to see what it actually did. But even so it's not too time-consuming.

[Shindigs]

Erik Gustafsson's name is messed up. Erik has a dead space after it. Making his database name Erik _Gustafsson_18_12_1992

[Manimal]

Erik Gustafsson's name is messed up. Erik has a dead space after it. Making his database name Erik _Gustafsson_18_12_1992

Oops! Forgot to change it back.
I had to differentiate the two Erik Gustsfssons born in 1992 as the Updater can't see who is who.

[Shindigs]

Erik Gustafsson's name is messed up. Erik has a dead space after it. Making his database name Erik _Gustafsson_18_12_1992

Oops! Forgot to change it back.
I had to differentiate the two Erik Gustsfssons born in 1992 as the Updater can't see who is who.

I very nearly gave one the other's face a few minutes ago. Not as bad as when dealing with players named anton johansson though, I think you'd be able to make a whole team of nothing but players with that name. Guess parents in the 90s wasn't into creative naming.

And here are some more players who need retiring/are missing history (a lot of the swe-2 players are missing the 14-15 season, I expect to find a lot more tomorrow when I keep trying to facepack all the new players who are being used now that swe-2 teams don't have inifite money anymore.

The following haven't played in at least 1 season (most haven't in like 5 or so):
Viktor_Alstergren_14_5_1988
Robin_Lehto_29_3_1990
Andreas_Löf_5_1_1983
Daniel_Olofsson_22_4_1983
Martin_Persson_5_5_1981 *played 2 games in 14-15
Michael_Kollar_12_2_1990
Emil_Haque_2_4_1990
Marcus_Rindestig_10_8_1990 *played 3 games in 14-15

The following are missing history entries, making it look like they had retired but been left in the DB(in some cases):
Kevin_Ekman-Larsson_26_1_1995
Martin_Persson_5_5_1981, missing player history from 05-06 to 14-15, If he is force retired the missing history will hardly matter.
Lars_Bryggman_9_1_1993
Sebastian_Harila_5_1_1993, missing player history...all of it.
Anthon_Eriksson_25_2_1995, missing player history 10-11 to 12-13 and 14-15
Michael_Fine_10_5_1991, missing player history 12-13 to current
Martin_Jernberg_8_10_1996,
Alexander_Nilsson Lindelöf_25_6_1996
Henri_Snäll_6_4_1992
Michael_Lindqvist_12_9_1994
Johan_Porsberger_20_6_1993

The BOLD ones only miss the 14-15 season.
There are by my approximation at least a hundred or so more retired players still skulking about in the db. But I'm currently 1 season in so they all got picked up by random teams or actually retired. Maybe I'll throw up a fresh save and look for all of them at some point, but I can generally think of something more fun to do at any give point of any give day.

[Shindigs]

Oh, and I forgot Emil Lundberg is also cloned. There's the real one with the full history in DIF (Emil_Lundberg_17_9_1993), and then there is a gray one who has the same history up until the 12-13 season, then no history after that (Emil_Lundberg_24_3_1993). The second one should probably be retired since he has no games logged since the 12-13 season, also he's a LW instead of a Dman in the DB since it stole that from Emil 1, at least in this case the clone is worse than the real player. With the Henrik Lundberg cloning, the Dman ended up a better goalie than the goalie, I used him for several seasons with a 0.92x save%, sadly the real one never really does that:/ Speaking of goalies, they seem to have been made worse in 1.2 Before all the good swedish goalies would sit on 92/93% in Swe-2. Now only a handful beat 90 and most are sub 90, wonder why that was done?

[Manimal]

If they played in SHL or Allsvenskan last season then they now have their histories updated, thanks to Aahlstroem.

I will look into the other stuff shortly

[Aahlstroem]

If they played in SHL or Allsvenskan last season then they now have their histories updated, thanks to Aahlstroem.

I will look into the other stuff shortly

No, I've only done SHL. I'll do Allsvenskan when I'm done with HockeyEttan contracts, gone through the clubs in J20 Lower and checked affiliations between senior and junior teams.

[Shindigs]

There's a bunch of unaffiliated U16s too. Not sure if they count as proper affiliates IRL though. But would make finding them in-game a lot less troublesome if they were. Speaking of missing affiliations. Fagersta AIK U-18 isn't affiliated but U-20 is, or vice versa. I fixed it my version of the DB so can't remember.

After playing a little bit with the changed budgets in Allsvenskan some things are becoming apparent.

1. The trade AI is pants. Almtuna has for some reason signed 31 players for the 16-17 season, most of which are completely awful, and at 75k wage a pop. They have higher rep than the team I'm playing so they don't have to get those bad players. But they did, AIK also did something similar.

2. Superettan would need to have their budgets fixed too. I'm not 100% sure where budgets down there rank, but I'm pretty sure the top teams don't have well over 4 million wage budget there, since that is more than 1 million over what low-end Allsvenskan teams have to deal with. Since the league isn't playable (yet, still hoping) it makes the brute force approach of fixing budgets that is currently the only way I know to do it take way too much time. The teams in the playouts almost always get saved from relegation anyways, just like in the SHL playouts.

3. The budget changes actually made it so real top allsvenskan players dominated the leaderboards in overview for once. I'm so used to seeing it flooded with high wage Free Agents that it was nice to see actual allsvenskan players there.

4. EHM confirmed how totally awfully VIK under-performed last year, they won the whole thing with their roster in my save. Much like they should have done IRL if they didn't forget how to play hockey about 10 games into the season.

[kempelito]

In my experiment to play Modo down to Allsvenskan and see what kind of team I could build I realized that I shouldn't have stocked up on swedish players pending between SHL and Allsvenskan, since I was able to sign very able AHL players such as Anton Forsberg and Philip Samuelsson
Plus I was able to keep everyone I wanted, including Ilari Filppula who was second in the SHL points standings. Even though he had a relegation clause and I had to battle multiple finnish Liiga teams he still stayed with me for a year in Allsvenskan!

Not sure if this is a database question though, but thought it might be fitting seeing as you were talking about Allsvenskan

[Shindigs]

MODO has a very high Reputation attribute (7k IIRC) which would let them keep players of that quality even in Allsvenskan, I'm not sure exactly how the increase/reduction in Reputation due to events after a game has started works, but presumably it isn't reducing it by enough for a team that is demoted. Just like it barely ups it if you're promoted. Which would explain what you're seeing.

Also here are some more players who should be retired:
Jimmy_Carlsson_21_9_1983, last season 08-09
Michael_Kollar_12_2_1990, last season 10-11
Marcus_Rindestig_10_8_1990, last season 14-15 (only 3 games)
Jakob_Danielsson_6_7_1982, last season 11-12
Mattias_Karlsson_25_3_1990, last season 08-09

On a semi-related note: how come some players with a lastname including å/ä/ö will pull their image from the responding name but replaced with a/a/o? I've only seen it on some Swedish and one norwegian player so far.

[Shindigs]

Some more players for retirement:
Johan_Skantz_14_4_1995, last season 14-15 (only 3 games)
Carl_Roxå_8_10_1988, last season 08-09
Erik_Englund_14_4_1987, last season 09-10
Robin_Granqvist_13_11_1987, last season 07-08
Andreas_Adolfsson_18_5_1990, last season 14-15 (17 games)
Toni_Kettunen_13_8_1986, last season 10-11, also his actual birthdate is 13_8_1985
Aaron_Ställ_24_3_1988, last season 14-15 (15 games)
Oskar_Larsson_26_5_1992, last season 12-13
Björn_Andersson_2_9_1988, last season 13-14
Johan_Eriksson_24_9_1987, last season 14-15 (12 games)
Mikael_Ahlenius_30_8_1986, last season 11-12, also his surname is actually Alenius and he is now active as a coach
Anders_Magnusson_8_9_1984, last season played 08-09, last signed 11-12

[Shindigs]

Do you even lift?

He sure does!

[Aahlstroem]

Do you even lift?

He sure does!

That guy should be fixed by now.

Also, I'm updating contracts for all players contracted to teams playing in the Swedish third tier in-game, and I'm retiring a lot of them. Just so we can avoid doing the same thing