Any value to lower draft picks?

matt44 · Post by **matt44** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:00 am

I will trade my first round pick and other picks to get a better 1st round draw but I think thats nothing NHL clubs dont do.

I dont like the idea of stock piling 1st round draft picks though, thats just cheating.

Post by **batdad** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:52 pm

Well actually..that 1st round plus to move up in a draft has happened maybe 3 or 4 times in 20 years. So no, the GMs don't do it very often. 1sts usually move for players a GM think will be an impact player immediately, not another 1st./

Nurgle · Post by **Nurgle** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:52 pm

On topic, i use late round picks to look for guys with decent work ethic and determination and see if they can become anything worthwhile to me

I do the same thing. Once I'm past the first 2 rounds I tend to pick players who have high determination and work ethic stats.
I am very guilty of rarely listening to my head scout, coach and assistant GM though!

I can't say that I have had very much success developing my own players though. The furthast I have played into a game was the 2014 season with the Leafs. I traded for all of my top players except for Angelo Esposito (14th pick) and John Tavares (4th pick). I couldn't believe I got Tavares as the 4th pick, but hey, I can't control the AI. In the end of my 2014 season Tavares was my 1st line center and Esposito was 2nd line center, with almost as many points as Tavares.

Again I am not sure how much development of these players I am personally responsible for, I am positive that Esposito just had a really high potential in my game (I know others have found him to be a waste of space and effort) and Tavares.. well its Tavares

TheBigM · Post by **TheBigM** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:26 pm

batdad wrote:Well actually..that 1st round plus to move up in a draft has happened maybe 3 or 4 times in 20 years. So no, the GMs don't do it very often. 1sts usually move for players a GM think will be an impact player immediately, not another 1st./

Uh, what? It happened *seven* times at last years draft!

* Anaheim traded Edmonton’s 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (12th overall) to Los Angeles for Calgary’s 1st-round pick (17th overall) and Dallas’ 1st-round pick in 2008 (28th overall).
* NY Islanders traded their 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (fifth overall) to Toronto for the Maple Leafs’ 1st-round pick in 2008 (seventh overall).
* NY Islanders traded Toronto’s 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (seventh overall) to Nashville for Florida’s 1st-round pick in 2008 (ninth overall) and Florida’s 2nd-round pick in 2008 (40th overall).
* Buffalo traded its 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (13th overall) and its 3rd-round pick in 2009 to Los Angeles for Edmonton’s 1st-round pick in 2008 (12th overall).
*Nashville traded its 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (15th overall) to Ottawa for the Senators' 1st-round pick in 2008 (18th overall) and 3rd-round pick in 2009.
* New Jersey traded its 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (21st overall) to Washington for the Capitals' 1st-round pick in 2008 (23rd overall) and 2nd-round pick in 2008 (54th overall).
* New Jersey traded Washington's 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (23rd overall) to Minnesota for the Wild's 1st-round pick in 2008 (24th overall) and 3rd-round pick in 2009.

M.

deathknot · Post by **deathknot** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:35 pm

i always run into one problem having to release rights of players due to the amount of picks picks i gather over a 5 year span and i can't sign them because i'm already at 50 roster players you know it's rough when yolu trade all 13 picks from one draft for picks 4 years down the road just so you can use them
i normally use the leafs and let me tell you draft picks are all you want when you start. i normally trade all old players and release the rights to players with bad scouting reports. then after that i have like 30-40 draft picks in 2-3 years and i hope i have some good players. some make it and some just become leftovers for more picks until i run out of room and i have full roster then i trade some players and rights to players and get picks. basically i'll never win a cup but i'll always have rookies and great young talent... actually i did win a cup once. darn leafs.. another thing i only trade for young players and picks or rights to players.. i scout europe and every league looking for talent. i like ronnie sundin but he is old so unless you want a old defenceman who will hit guys harder than he shoots don't waste your time. i like alot of europe talnet as i seem to have a mix of canadians and euros and i always sign one players from south africa in hopes he becomes something more than a waste of space.. i've found players in every euro league high or low and i'd say i've mastered the scouting of europe to a tee. my issue is scouting lower leagues CHL,ECHL,AHL and those leagues i never find to many guys i think will fit my team... but i know how to scout the Canada Hockey League i find guys to unknown my scouts don't even know he was around until i sent them to see him. plus i get lucky sometimes.. like hedman in 4th round and he become a good 3-4 dman

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:41 pm

Recently, I drafted a czech D in a 6th(#163) round, in his first year he plays in AHL, and is 1g-7a-8p in 9 games, he's projected as 3-4 DMan, like Klesla. I am now deep stacked with defenseman, with three potential NHLers in next 2 years.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:47 pm

TheBigM wrote:
batdad wrote:Well actually..that 1st round plus to move up in a draft has happened maybe 3 or 4 times in 20 years. So no, the GMs don't do it very often. 1sts usually move for players a GM think will be an impact player immediately, not another 1st./
Uh, what? It happened *seven* times at last years draft!

* Anaheim traded Edmonton’s 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (12th overall) to Los Angeles for Calgary’s 1st-round pick (17th overall) and Dallas’ 1st-round pick in 2008 (28th overall).
* NY Islanders traded their 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (fifth overall) to Toronto for the Maple Leafs’ 1st-round pick in 2008 (seventh overall).
* NY Islanders traded Toronto’s 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (seventh overall) to Nashville for Florida’s 1st-round pick in 2008 (ninth overall) and Florida’s 2nd-round pick in 2008 (40th overall).
* Buffalo traded its 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (13th overall) and its 3rd-round pick in 2009 to Los Angeles for Edmonton’s 1st-round pick in 2008 (12th overall).
*Nashville traded its 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (15th overall) to Ottawa for the Senators' 1st-round pick in 2008 (18th overall) and 3rd-round pick in 2009.
* New Jersey traded its 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (21st overall) to Washington for the Capitals' 1st-round pick in 2008 (23rd overall) and 2nd-round pick in 2008 (54th overall).
* New Jersey traded Washington's 1st-round pick in the 2008 Entry Draft (23rd overall) to Minnesota for the Wild's 1st-round pick in 2008 (24th overall) and 3rd-round pick in 2009.

M.

To clarify my point... I meant the 1st round plus 22 7th rounds, plus 14 guys who wold never play in the NHL. And oh, you cannot count the Islanders in anything. They are always the exception...and also I tend to mean for 1st overall, not 22nd or 23rd. Or even 15th.

deathknot · Post by **deathknot** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:21 pm

1st overall are rearly traded unless they know they can get something great for their club. but you always hear about what clubs could have gotten for the 1st overall pick. ottawa could have scored large with their first overall pick when they took alex d. they could have had a 1st round pick, with a 2nd and 7th and 2 players they passed took one of the biggest flops ever. like this year a 3rd overall pick might be worth more than in other years. due to the fact that a team may pass johnny t. and victor h. over and what do you know in the 3rd overall spot you got a great player. right now i'd say if you going to suck this year make sure you suck large so you can get one of those top 5 spots. i'd trade up for 2nd or 3rd for sure in the hopes you get one of the one big stars in your lap. i've sure alot of teams would like to have a top dman or superstar forward. and why the hell is victor hedman never anything more than a 3-4 dman if your lucky. normally he does not even make it..

Post by **batdad** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:26 pm

BEcause he just started to show up on the radar last season. This game was made almost 3 years ago. Unless you play with an edited db Hedman will suck. Just the way it is.

As for "having the opportunity" to trade, and getting an offer and scoring large...that is a whole lot different than actually making the deal. Ottawa could have made that deal, and yes in retrospect it may have been a good deal for them. But at the time...they would have been crucified as an expansion team, with the #1 pick, trying to develop a future. No way they make that deal. Even though Daigle did not pay off on the ice, they made alot of headway using his name in establishing that franchise as viable off the ice.

No way do the top 2 teams deal their picks this year. Especially if they end up being Toronto and Ottawa. Atlanta could maybe get away with it. But no way do real hockey markets.

deathknot · Post by **deathknot** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:31 pm

if toronto ends up with one of the top 2 picks i'll be dancing all year.. i hope they do and they get hedman and then they will have a good start on the defence getting better. plus toronto has swedish players to make him feel at home..

Post by **batdad** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:23 pm

If they get #1 and take Hedman, they will become a laughing stock, similar to the New York Islanders. Tavares is the player who will have the most impact by far.

Anyway, back on topic...about to head to playoffs and NHL drft in my Canucks season. Cannot wait to make my 5th rounder play in the NHL. Even if he gets 2 ratings.

deathknot · Post by **deathknot** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:48 pm

the leafs will liking get 3-6 overall in picks.. so no hedman for them.

as for my season i'm the leafs like normal and we are almost done the 3rd season. going for 2 cups in 3 years. we won a cup in year one by some magical way and in the year 2 we made the semi-finals and then in year 3 right now we carry 15 picks and a first place spot but the team has some players they need to be moved. magical the team just died.. 1 guy got hurt and slap game over. so i figure first round exit and then i'll be looking over my scouting reports for the draft and see who i can find that i like and i'll also be looking at the reports from my eruope scouts and as what gems they have found for me.

last year i figured i'd try s few more euro players signed them and sent to the "A" and 2 of the 3 look to be 3rd - 4th liners in the "N". the 3rd guy looks to be a filler in so odds are i'll try and move him for a few 1 star player rights.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:50 pm

Ahem...topic??? It is late round draft picks...

deathknot · Post by **deathknot** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:32 am

well as for late round guys i've come to notice that the best late rounds are WHLers it seems with OHLers and Euro kids coming in 2nd and 3rd... QMJHL seem to good 1st-4th rounds with most of the 4th rounds being mid-rank AHLers at best. i like drafting WHL and OHL and euros the most. i rearly touch QMJHL and NCCA unless i come by a possible player. most of the NCCA players i get come from trade actually mostly as add-ons. actually the 12th round buffalo pick from 1974 showed up in my game.. did you know his name? Taro Tsujimoto....

mig174 · Post by **mig174** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:37 am

Drafted Steve Chaffin in round 5 of the first draft. Rated wildly different by all my scouts. Checked savegame editor out of curiosity - potential 160. So I think it's possible to pick well late - but it's probably only possible with prospects that have the potential rating that's hard to predict (the one that ranges from 110 to 190).

jbsnadb · Post by **jbsnadb** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:18 pm

Proof that things can be completely random from game to game: Chaffin was drafted 19th overall by Buffalo in my game.

deathknot · Post by **deathknot** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:48 pm

Taro Tsujimoto is a fake player in real life who buffalo took in 1974 in the 12th round. Taro Tsujimoto in my game is actually a hidden gem in the rough. he was in my 2008 draft i found him just sitting there. so i picked him as a joke ends up he can be a very good ECHLer or mid-range AHLer. either way he has good numbers this far in echl and in 10 games with the ahl he has 5 points. i'll most likely try to move him on the sabres. just to make the joke even more funny

MKoivuFan · Post by **MKoivuFan** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:37 pm

while were on the whole lower picks discussion, playing my first season of the whl team never played asa whl team before are the lower picks valued much or no since there is 15 rounds?

Post by **CeeBee** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:28 pm

For me the lower picks don't have much value because with the 50 player reserve roster limit it's pretty hard to get down to 35 players for the draft and whats the point of drafting 15 players if you have to release some of them to get down to 50 players. I'm pretty new to the game so maybe there is a workaround I'm unaware of but thats my take anyway.

binchnunker · Post by **binchnunker** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:28 am

well isn't it a 70 player reserve max? or something.. and 50 contracted... so you can dump unsigned prospects or crummy AHLers. I always had problems with my contracted maximum because of useless ahlers. just to fill the Rivermen's roster. as for late round picks, I did have a Goalie that my scouts were all high on, that is actually playing backup on a different team after I let him go. went by the name of Radek Fiala, a czech goalie i took in the 7th round of the 2007 draft using the original DB and version 3.0.4. Another good use for late rounders is drafting depth (Regular/Fringe) players. Which i never end up using for a long time, i'm also guilty of using an editor in one of my games to check potential ratings of players during the draft.. so I ended up with way too many key and core players and now have to part ways with them. Also about that trading up thing.. I'm guilty of a 1st + Prospect for 1st overall. I traded my 6th overall + promising prospect for ottawa's 1st overall to take Travis Randell as I was in despereate need of a key right winger, ottawa took Cam Wolf who was the top d-man in the draft. so we both won in my opinion.

MKoivuFan · Post by **MKoivuFan** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:17 am

As far as NHL picks go its 50 contracted by 80 reserve list.. When it comes to draft picks what i like ot do is if theres 2-3 players i really like in the top 10-12ish and the 1st one is gone i sometimes trade down a spot or two and pick up another 2 2nd round picks or a 2nd and a 3rd along with that teams 1st for my 1st someones depends on the draft...

Post by **CeeBee** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:29 pm

It's the CHL that has a limit of 50 total players signed or unsigned and a 15 round bantam draft. It's a lot tougher to open up spots without losing most of last years drafts, most of which are either too young to play in the CHL yet or just not ready. I guess it's what makes running a junior team more of a challenge, at least in regard to young players.

Post by **batdad** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:51 pm

It is not that hard to have spots open for the CHL entry draft.

1. 20 year olds graduate.
2. You are only allowed 3 20 year olds on your team, so release or trade the rest who are going to turn 20 before the draft, to prepare for the next season. If you are going to challenge for Mem Cup, hold em and then move em after season ends, but you will have decisions to make because of the draft.
3. Release any sucky guys from previous drafts.
4. Pass in the draft, like they do in real life after about round 10, if there are no players better than anyone you have on your unsigned prospect or roster.

It is real simple guys, learn the birth year philosophy. If it is 2009 you are only allowed 3 guys born in 2008.

My CHL rosters will usually contain:

3 guys who are 20
5-6 guys who are 19
5-6 guys who are 18
6-7 guys who are 17
2-3 guys who are 16

My prospect list plus my roster *50 players*

3 20's
6 19s
10 18s
12 17s
12-14 16s

This way, I have some flexibility as am usually under50 man list. I can bring in guys or move guys. College guys tend to stay on my list and make the older age groups swell. I never take a chance that these guys won't come to the league for a different team if I release them. Also I start letting guys go that won't make my team at age 18. if they are not there by then they likely won't make it. Some I keep are just in case of injury as they may be more ready than my 16s.

In CHL you have to constantly be watching and thinking about what your roster will look like next season. And the year after. Because of the age limitations it makes it fun to play. Sometimes you have to let real good players go.

You also have to watch to see who is coming back from the NHL and be prepared for it. For example, Vancouver sends Yan Sauve back to Saint John...well don't have 10 dmen on your roster, and don't have 8 19 year olds. They have also been known to send him back at age 20 in the game, and you have to be careful then with your 20s/

Post by **CeeBee** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:22 pm

Thanks Batdad

Thats kind of the system I'm figuring out. You have a few years head start on me but I'm having a blast learning all this stuff. I just wish I'd have found EHM sooner.

tksolway · Post by **tksolway** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:32 pm

I usually set my best scouts, the ones with 18-20 scouting player potenial to scout the draft and ignore known players. Usually I have three scouts doing known and 2 doing unknowns for my drafts. I generally find at least one gem, somtimes two that survive to the 3rd, 4th, or even the 5th round that way. Ryan wilson is the obvious choice in the first season. But remember prospects are random for the most part. There are those -7 guys that roll really high and have the potential to be a second or first line players. You don't know their names though, since they are random. its those guys that create teams like Detroit. Any idiot knows you draft Tavares or Hedmen when they are available.