NHL Team/Franchise Discussion Thread

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:55 pm

Well it looks like its getting ugly.

NHL spills its secrets in court Gretzky salary details (8 Million), league's constitution among documents filed in ownership fight.

NHL's closely guarded Constitution.

wildiowafan · Post by **wildiowafan** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:02 am

The whole "anti-trust" argument is flawed on the Balisle/PHX side. they are trying to argue that mlse keeping a team out of Hamilton restricts fair trade. But, that argument presupposes that each of the teams are competing against each other, which they are not, except on the ice. The NHL is the company, and the teams are "franchises" within the company which means that all teams are part of the same brand. Just like McDonald's has rules for it franchises, so should the NHL, and they should have the right to decide those rules. if i own a McDonald's franchise than i believe i would have the right to refuse a second McDonald's coming into my area. No court would rule that McDonald's must allow two competing franchises in the same area, and they shouldn't do it to the NHL. Now if the NHL was stopping Balisle from starting a competing league, that would be in violation of the anti-trust laws.

Now, I'm not arguing whether the team should be moved or if the NHL would be better served with a team in Hamilton, I am arguing that legally the NHL should have the right to make that decision. If the court rules against the NHL it will be the fans of all sports that lose, because teams will uproot at will and no fan base will be safe.

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:25 pm

Reinsdorf files bid for $148M

Thats 64 million less than Basillie's offer. It also comes with the proviso that Glendale renegotiate the lease for the arena they play in. Which most likely means the Coyotes will stay in Phoenix for a few years, then move. (probably to Vegas)

None of the unsecured creditors will see a dime, which means even Gretzky will be out of luck and not see his 22 mill. And the GM is basically saying he's just gonna have to suck it up. If he was owed 22 mill he would not be saying that.

I'm not a fan of Basillie, and I don't think Hamilton is the best place for a team, specially not in an arena that is so old and that he wants the government to kick in to make it nicer. However Bettman seems to have it against him and thats just not right. Bettman could work out a deal with him that would be good for both parties, but he just doesn't seem to want to.

Phoenix is going to be leaving it just depends on when, not if.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:40 pm

Qikdraw wrote: I'm not a fan of Basillie, and I don't think Hamilton is the best place for a team, specially not in an arena that is so old and that he wants the government to kick in to make it nicer. However Bettman seems to have it against him and thats just not right. Bettman could work out a deal with him that would be good for both parties, but he just doesn't seem to want to.

Bettman hates Canada. He doesn't think the league can make enough money in Canada. Plus, he's got this crush on the NBA where he wishes that the NHL was the NBA. He wants to have teams in places like the NBA even if the NHL and NBA have vastly different fans. Canada, with the exception of some of the really big locations where there are already teams, doesn't have the same appeal to Bettman. And because Basillie is relentless in his pursuit of another team in Canada, Bettman hates him too.

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:51 pm

I don't feel bad for Gretz. Making $8 million as a coach?! Pretty hefty paycheck for a guy who's lead a team to the playoffs a total of ZERO times! What's Babcock making? $1.5 million? And he has three Cup Finals appearances and a ring.

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:22 pm

Hypnotist wrote:I don't feel bad for Gretz. Making $8 million as a coach?! Pretty hefty paycheck for a guy who's lead a team to the playoffs a total of ZERO times! What's Babcock making? $1.5 million? And he has three Cup Finals appearances and a ring.

Yeah, his salary is idiotic at best, however I don't think he should be cheated out of the money because a buddy of Bettman's wants to lowball and grab an NHL team. Gretzky should be let go as coach since he just can't seem to get the team to work.

wildiowafan · Post by **wildiowafan** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:52 pm

Qikdraw wrote:Reinsdorf files bid for $148M

Thats 64 million less than Basillie's offer. It also comes with the proviso that Glendale renegotiate the lease for the arena they play in. Which most likely means the Coyotes will stay in Phoenix for a few years, then move. (probably to Vegas)

None of the unsecured creditors will see a dime, which means even Gretzky will be out of luck and not see his 22 mill. And the GM is basically saying he's just gonna have to suck it up. If he was owed 22 mill he would not be saying that.

I'm not a fan of Basillie, and I don't think Hamilton is the best place for a team, specially not in an arena that is so old and that he wants the government to kick in to make it nicer. However Bettman seems to have it against him and thats just not right. Bettman could work out a deal with him that would be good for both parties, but he just doesn't seem to want to.

Phoenix is going to be leaving it just depends on when, not if.

I think you misunderstood the quote from Maloney, it was completely unrelated to Gretzky being owed money and just appears to be randomly stuck at the end of the article. as far as basillie, bettman has every right to have it against him. the guy has twice in the last few seasons tried to bypass league rules and buy a team and move it. what basillie keeps doing is detrimental to the league and its fan base and i'm sure it doesn't help ticket sales in those markets. if he wants a team he needs to start following the rules

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:20 pm

I don't know if any of you guys have been keeping tabs on this at all, but tomorrow (wednesday aug 5th) will be the deciding factor in Balsillie's bid.

http://www.thestar.com/article/675723

One thing I am finding very interesting is Reinsdorf's bid and his dealings with Glendale. Glendale would not work with Moyes at all to change the lease agreement, but apparently they are willing to with Reinsdorf.

The city of Glendale wants current Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes found in contempt for disclosing confidential information contained in arena negotiations between the city and bidder Jerry Reinsdorf. It's a leak that has Reinsdorf threatening to pull his $148 million (all figures U.S.) bid.

The confidential information, posted briefly by Moyes' legal team on the court website, shows that Reinsdorf is seeking some $23 million in subsidies next year. If the Coyotes continue to lose money after five years, the team would get an additional $15 million per year and could be sold or moved.

This is pretty much what I knew was going to happen. Reinsdorf will be perfectly willing to lose money for 5 years to be able to move the team to another city. I fully believe this is exactly what Bettman has wanted all along as well. What the judge should say is that the bankruptcy auction will include Balsillie and he'd be able to move the team. And since Glendale was willing to change the lease for other bidders they can have no contractural hold over the Coyotes now. At least thats how I'd rule, I donno what the judge will do. Overall I am widdled about the whole thing. Not that I am a supporter of Balsillie, but because of the way the NHL has played this. There were a number of things both sides could have done to make this better for everybody, but something else I believe is that Bettman does not like Balsillie and will do what he can to make sure he doesn't get a team and Balsillie doesn't like Bettman and is doing whatever he can to cause as much trouble as he can.

Its a stupid mess and everybody is acting like idiots.

Post by **batdad** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:06 am

Although I agree that the sides involved in this are acting like idiots, the reason that Bettman and the NHL do not want to cave into Balsillie's bid is very simple. It is NOT because they do not like Jim, nor is it as personal as many have made it out to be.

The simple fact is an EXPANSION team in Hamilton is worth one hell of alot more money to the owners of the NHL than is moving the team from Phoenix to that area. Current owners do not get a dime of the money Jimmy is ready to pay to get the 'Yotes. If they can keep Jimmy out of this bid...they can then turn and get what they think is possible...HUGE EXPANSION money. Like in the range of 300-400 million or perhaps more. Plus...the teams in Buffalo and Toronto would get more money out of it as well with territorial rights being paid for in addition to the Expansion fees shared between the other 30 member clubs. Money for the YOTES is just for the owner of the Yotes.

Sorry...but it makes perfect sense to me that Balsillie does not get this team...and the reason is pure business.

BaerXIII · Post by **BaerXIII** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:59 am

Good news bad news. Jim Balsillie will be able to put in a bid for the Coyotes September 10th. Now as far as I know Bettman will have no control over this highest bidder wins (which is what should have happened with Nashville). Now good news is that it will give Hamilton some optimism of a team not that they deserve it or not deserve it still would be a better fit then in the desert. That's the good news. The bad news is we're still going to have to hear about this rubbish up to and after the 10th of September.

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:35 am

http://www.thestar.com/article/676866

Not just that but that there will be another hearing to examine all the issues. Isn't that what has been going on until now? I think that was a salve to the NHL the judge threw them because he said Baslillie could bid on Sept 10th.

BaerXIII · Post by **BaerXIII** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:52 am

Qikdraw wrote:http://www.thestar.com/article/676866

Not just that but that there will be another hearing to examine all the issues. Isn't that what has been going on until now? I think that was a salve to the NHL the judge threw them because he said Baslillie could bid on Sept 10th.

Enh I'm not going to try and make sense of the financial aspect of the American courts system. It just seems insane that it has to be taken this far seeing that Balsillie has(had) put in an offer worth $60 million USD more then the other highest bidder. That and if the team isn't moved now it will in the next 10 years since the team has or had been trying to get the city of Glendale to make the area around the arena a new tax district to try and get more money for the team.

wildiowafan · Post by **wildiowafan** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:57 am

I realize I'm in the minority in this discussion, and thats fine. But its a lot more complicated than who gives the highest bid. First of all, the way the original balsillie bid was set up it paid most of its money to Moyes and Gretzky. Glendale, and I agree, that as owners of the team they can not also be creditors. The Reinsdorf bid on the other hand pays all of its money to the creditors and none for Moyes or Gretzky. Furthermore, there is the issue of the city's lease (and i don't believe their willingness to rework for a team staying impacts monetary damages for a team leaving one bit, as the point of reworking to keep the team is to keep getting the tax money off of the team) In that case there could be $500 million in damages, which the balsillie bid does not cover.

Of course, the most important issue is that the NHL is a private business, and they should have the right to decide who owns their franchises and where they play. Thus, their contention that the rejection of balsillie as an owner disqualifies him from being eligible to buy the team , is right. Now, whether the judge agrees or disagrees is another story.

And to anyone that thinks its a personal beef with balsillie, read this article:

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2009/8/5/ ... -balsillie

Is this really the kind of guy we want owning a franchise in the NHL? I always hear people talk about his love of hockey, but that article shows his love of himself is more important.

BaerXIII · Post by **BaerXIII** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:06 am

wildiowafan wrote:I realize I'm in the minority in this discussion, and thats fine. But its a lot more complicated than who gives the highest bid. First of all, the way the original balsillie bid was set up it paid most of its money to Moyes and Gretzky. Glendale, and I agree, that as owners of the team they can not also be creditors. The Reinsdorf bid on the other hand pays all of its money to the creditors and none for Moyes or Gretzky. Furthermore, there is the issue of the city's lease (and i don't believe their willingness to rework for a team staying impacts monetary damages for a team leaving one bit, as the point of reworking to keep the team is to keep getting the tax money off of the team) In that case there could be $500 million in damages, which the balsillie bid does not cover.

Of course, the most important issue is that the NHL is a private business, and they should have the right to decide who owns their franchises and where they play. Thus, their contention that the rejection of balsillie as an owner disqualifies him from being eligible to buy the team , is right. Now, whether the judge agrees or disagrees is another story.

And to anyone that thinks its a personal beef with balsillie, read this article:

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2009/8/5/ ... -balsillie

Is this really the kind of guy we want owning a franchise in the NHL? I always hear people talk about his love of hockey, but that article shows his love of himself is more important.

Now the NHL is a private business but clearly it's not a very smart business. When someone comes up to you and wants to buy a dead/dying franchise and offers you upwards of $200 million dollars any sensible person would take the cash. (The Penguins are of course the exception to the rule.) We know that the 6 Canadian teams bring in 1/3 of the leagues total revenue so why not make it 7 and make more. At the very least find some way to move the Coyotes into I think it was downtown Phoenix (it was somewhere 1 hour 30 minutes form Glendale) where there is more of a hockey base. Albeit I think to do that they would have to get out of bankruptcy at the very least.

Also, I know this doesn't pertain to this conundrum but still, it's an interview with Bill Daly on a Canadian radion show last year. They don't bring up Phoenix what with this being a year ago but the message is still the same as they bring up Balsillie's offer for Nashville and why it was rejected. http://www.imeem.com/people/JEz-O-I/mus ... rive-this/

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:43 am

NHL bids on 'Yotes

How far will the league go to keep teams in unrealistic markets? I've never been a Bettman fan, but he is really starting to emulate the rogue CEOs from recent history.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:47 pm

Really, it's disgusting how the league is managing this whole situation. Do they want to keep some teams in small markets where they struggle so that the league can keep the salary cap low?

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:26 pm

Hypnotist wrote:NHL bids on 'Yotes

How far will the league go to keep teams in unrealistic markets? I've never been a Bettman fan, but he is really starting to emulate the rogue CEOs from recent history.

Wouldn't that be considered a conflict of interest if the NHL owned the team?

Even if Balsillie didn't get the team, I don't see them in Glendale in 5 years. They'll be moved. To a pal of Bettman's or not I don't know, but defiantely moved.

I still don't see how the NHL can force a team to stay in a bad market either.

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:27 pm

So has anyone else been following this? Time is almost up and the judge ordered a mediation for tomorrow between Balisllie and the NHL, the only two bidders left.

Which way do you think the judge is going to go?

Post by **getzlaf15** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:31 pm

Is tomorow the verdict as to who the team will be awarded too? This seems to be have been going all summer...

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:31 pm

I think at this point I just want it done and over with. All parties involved have done serious harm to the league and made the NHL a laughing stock.

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:31 pm

getzlaf15 wrote:Is tomorow the verdict as to who the team will be awarded too? This seems to be have been going all summer...

No tomorrow is just a mediation the NHL didn't want. Balsillie asked the judge to order the mediation to see if the NHL and him can work out a deal. The NHL didn't want to because they are sticking with their story that all the team owners rejected Balsillie, so he is not qualified.

Bruins. I agree with you. It needs to end. I'm not happy with either side and I think that BOTH sides have acted idiotically. Unfortunately I do belive Bettman simply does not like Balsillie and that once the NHL takes over the Coyotes they'll move them in a year or two, to Vegas most likely. The sad thing is in the NHLs own judgement Hamilton would be the 5th best market for an NHL team. I'm probably not going to be happy either way it ends though.

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:47 pm

Gretzky quits as head coach! WHich is pretty big news for the Coyotes. But better for the team I think. Great player yes, great coach, not so much.

Balsillie updates bid, NHL unchanged.

Coyote of the Sea · Post by **Coyote of the Sea** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:04 am

The biggest problems that have screwed the Coyotes is:

1. Glendale. Lets move to an area that was not developed at all and much farther away from the East Valley then Downtown Phoenix. Its even worse now that the Light Rail has been put in, and one would have to imagine that could only have helped if they were still in downtown. And Glendales lease with the yotes also was terrible for the team.

2. Bad Seasons. Every team in Arizona thats gone on a long streak of no playoff appearances has struggled. Until a couple years ago, the Cardinals couldn't get any near selling out a game. The Suns games were equally as bad in the 90s when they just sucked. The Diamondback went from a huge fanbase in 2001, to pathetic attendance after a few years of bad play.

I still believe the Coyotes can succeed here, but they need to start winning, and soon, for that to happen. If they have a couple good seasons and still can't get fans then i'll sadly after to say its time for them to leave. But i honestly don't believe now is the time

Qikdraw · Post by **Qikdraw** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:25 pm

Well it looks like its over for Balsillie.

http://www.thestar.com/article/703440

Maybe he'll appeal, but I hope he doesn't. Let it go.

All the NHL has to do is refine their bid to give Moyes and Gretzky more money and they control the Coyotes. But I can pretty mch guarantee that the NHL is going to move them within 3 years.

Coyote of the Sea · Post by **Coyote of the Sea** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:28 am

i don't think they'll move if they make a playoff run in a year or two. What i'd prefer is the team get sold to a decent owner, give them 5 years and if the team still can't make it, then i'd be sad but willing to admit its time they move on.