1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[nino33]

Greetings from 1974! It almost seems like 1974 here, with my working on the db and the 1974 Stanley Cup Final on TV (DVD)…..game 4 right now, 2-2 in the 3rd period

RE CA/PA
I’ve been focused on functionality (“does it work?”) and so haven’t looked at things close enough yet to have much to say about #1 how low can a CA be for a player starting out younger (ages 1-11) than the computer is used to? AND #2 how high does a PA have to be to ensure a player expected to reach pro (in a historical db) actually does so? AND can the variable PA options (like -7 or -14) be used in conjunction with a low CA on a “youth” player?

But in the last couple days I’ve created the missing Leagues and the 1974 db now has created Leagues from “Mini Mite” (ages 1-2) all the way up to “Midget” (ages 15-17) – AND I’ve been working on populating these teams in conjunction with my review of all players in the db with a CA and/or PA over 100 (check players using hockey db, if “modern” lower attributes or retire, if “historical” determine where they should be and put them there!

So far the SEL, Finnish Elite, DEL and Russian Leagues have all been “purged” of all “modern” players with a CA and/or PA over 100 + the OHL/QMJHL have been “purged” of all modern players with a CA and/or PA above 80 (working on WHL right now). This means their CA and/or A has been set such that they will not exceed 100 and thus (in conjunction with some other adjustments) should not be “on the radar” in-game

A few notes RE the Pre-Game Editor filtering function and doing these “purges”
- I always search multiple times in multiple ways (like by Nationality and by League)
- I usually use the filter to select just “Player”
- FIRST search by CA 101 to 200
- THEN CA 0 to 100/PA101 to 200
- THEN PA -5 to -5.....PA -6 to -6.....PA -7 to -7…..PA -8 to -8…..PA -9 to -9.....PA -10 to -10
- THEN PA -13 to -13…..PA -14 to -14…..PA -15 to -15

This system came about at least in a part because I took two combined databases (Unfaking + 1979-80) and started editing it so that it now was three databases (1979-80 db + Unfaking + 1979-80 + 1976)…..and then I added a fourth (1979=80 + Unfaking + 1976 + 1974) and in so doing the desire to be meticulous became a necessity!

RE effects of Reputation
I too suspect that PA is close to an "end all/be all" normally, but when the computer is dealing witth ages younger than normal (1-11) who knows.....I hope to be testing again soon (next week?), and I'll post more on this issue then. I did find I could use Reputation to determine whether a player had an "NHL Release Clause" at start-up (totally new knowledge to me) so "ya never know"

Regards



P.S. I can see in a future update moving more players around to the varied in-game Bantam-Midget teams that are available, or elaborating on the created Leagues/Teams structure or level of detail, but at this point the only focus is on functionality (I never wanted to “think” about these players existing myself and NEVER imagined actively scouting toddlers! The goal/purpose is to “feed” the traditional in-game EHM routes to the NHL)

[bruins72]

I wonder if you can create players that are not even born at the start of the DB but because they have later birthdates they'll be born a few seasons down the line? For example, the DB starts in 1974 (even though the in-game date will be 2006). Could you have guys be born in 1991?

[Richie Daggers Crime]

This sounds amazing. Can't wait to see the finished project.

[nino33]

I wonder if you can create players that are not even born at the start of the DB but because they have later birthdates they'll be born a few seasons down the line? For example, the DB starts in 1974 (even though the in-game date will be 2006). Could you have guys be born in 1991?

Because any player 's IRL DOB is always +32 years to make it fit with the 2006 EHM fixed start date
- any players born in 1959 IRL use the 1991 DOB in-game
- any players actually born in 1991 IRL would a 2023 DOB in-game

Currently the youngest historical future star is 1, born in 1973 IRL and using 2005 as DOB in-game.

Not sure if I can set a DOB for "after game start day" (2006 would be used for those born in 1974, 2007 for those born in 1975, 2008 for those born in 1976, etc).....a very ineresting idea! I'll try it out when testing...

[archibalduk]

I wonder if you can create players that are not even born at the start of the DB but because they have later birthdates they'll be born a few seasons down the line? For example, the DB starts in 1974 (even though the in-game date will be 2006). Could you have guys be born in 1991?

So you mean that in game their date of birth would be after the beginning of the 2006/07 season (e.g. 1 Jan 2007 in game)? I wonder how EHM would handle that - I guess it might just make them 1yr or 16yrs old (I think this is how an earlier version of Championship Manager handled it if a player was under 16 yrs old). It's certainly worth a quick try.

[nino33]

Well I tryed it, and created a player that is minus two years old!
Check out the screenshots
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... /test2.jpg
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... /test1.jpg
The goalie's only 2 feet tall because I'm also doing some experimenting with height/weight progression.
I had to set a bunch of Leagues to Enhanced/Maximum to ensure I could track my extra young players, so simming takes a bit longer and I haven't gone further ahead yet...I'll keep you posted when I get a chance to do some more testing.


Editing is going well...there's a lot more depth in the AHL than I thought AND the first draft is gonna be great!
Players available in the first draft in the 1974 db include (in no particular order): Stan Johnathan, Don Edwards, Doug Halward,, Doug Jarvis, Greg Malone, Denis Maruk, Dale McCourt, Greg Millen, Mark Napier, Morris Lukowich, Brian Sutter, Ed Staniowski, Blair Chapman, Ron Delorme, Barry Beck, Glen Hanlon, Kevin McCarthy, Pete Peeters, Dave Semenko, Mike McEwen,, Willi Plett, Ron Duguay, Ric Seiling, John Tonelli, Murray Bannerman, Tom Roulston, Mike Bossy, Alain Cote, Lucien DeBlois, Steve Penney, Richard Sevigny, Pierre Mondou and MORE!

FYI due to the huge increase in number of teams nowadays, the AHL in-game will be a combination of pretty much all of the minor leagues of the era (I'm using selected teams from the IRL 10 team AHL + the 8 team CHL + the 11 team IHL + the 8 team NAHL + 5 team SHL). I haven't yet got to thinking about the ECHL in-game.

I hope to be done the moving about and final creating of players in a week or so.
Then some editing of Team tabs, finish up Staff (I've been working on it), player Attribute review and some testing

I think I've changed my mind about editing Referee Attributes after testing and seeing I can (I think) reduce PIM by about 20%.....I'm still very often a paper and pen kinda guy, and I've misplaced my notes!...but I think it was about 20%

That's it for now!

[Primis]

Well I tryed it, and created a player that is minus two years old!
Check out the screenshots
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... /test2.jpg
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4 ... /test1.jpg
The goalie's only 2 feet tall because I'm also doing some experimenting with height/weight progression.
I had to set a bunch of Leagues to Enhanced/Maximum to ensure I could track my extra young players, so simming takes a bit longer and I haven't gone further ahead yet...I'll keep you posted when I get a chance to do some more testing.

VERY interesting stuff. I had written this off without trying because I assumed it'd make them 15 years old.

This is very good to know. If the game will not regen them it'll mean you can create *several decades* worth of real prospects.

To me it's far more important that historical mods have REAL players, regadless of whether the regens would be better or not...

[bruins72]

So the fact that it allows you to create players that are young (or not yet born) is a very good thing. Now it really requires some testing. I know Nino33 has created league for players as young as 1-2. Will the stay active and play in those leagues or will they retire? Maybe let the game sim for 5-10 season and see what happens to these ultra-young players? Will the -2 year old players stay in the DB until they're 1-2 or will they retire because there is nothing for them to do?

Also, height and weight development really has to be looked at. THis is something you'll need multiple sims for. Every time you change it, you'll need to sim ahead a decent way to see how they've grown.You'd pretty much need to sim them up to 18 years old and see if their heights/weights at that age make sense.

[nino33]

FYI I will continue to look into this but it'll likely be a while before we'll have an answer as I don't yet have these lower Leagues fully populated (and I think that might play a part.....if there's only a handful of players for an extra young League instead of about 20 per team the computer may handle it differently); I've got about 100 players in these most recently created Leagues for ages 1-8 and I need about 320 players.....
Certainly from earlier testing it seems adding players aged 8-12 "worked" and in just a quick review it seemed the computer even kept populating the teams AFTER the historical players had passed through...

Height/Weight tests can be quick simmed and so I'll leave that until we determine the lowest starting age that's feasable.

[Primis]

I also wanted to say, don't even worry about the ECHL in-game. The ECHL and "AA" level is mostly-inconsequential anyways (and I say that as a wonk who thoroughly enjoys managing in the ECHL) to development and affiliates barely send anyone anyways. If you wanted you could even completely fictionalize the ECHL with assorted archaic teams like the Maroons, Silver Seven, etc, as a nod to history.

Very excited about the "AAA" level though and where it sounds like it's heading.

Are you going to try and scale salaries? Is that even possible?

[nino33]

RE ECHL It's just my desire to be complete and looking beyond 1.0 to improvements that can be made in the future AND I think for me the ECHL is important because it "connects" to the NHL (in addition to my NHL team I like to manage both my AHL/ECHL teams to some degree).
In 1974 there were actually 32 professional teams (WHA + NHL) and 42 minor pro teams (spread across 5 different Leagues) in North America, so there are LOTS of available players from the era! And I actually have League Guides from the AHL and IHL, plus all the information in 52 weeks worth of hockey News' from 1974.

For version 1.0 I think my focus is on not having any "modern" players affect the game,, not removing/overwriting every modern player (i.e. they'll still be there but you'll have to seek them out...just like there's always ECHL and lower players in all game buts no one goes looking for them).

I will say this.....in the last few days I've been reflecting back on reading I've done and notes I've taken, and have some concern about the mass Attribute reduction I've done on "modern" players and how it'll affect the game long term - Do players regenerate completely randomly and could be 1-200? Or randomly but still within the previous "range" they had? And what PA do players regenerate with when the previous player had a "fixed number"? I have (at least at this point) reduced the number of players in the db who had a PA of both -6 (90-120) and -13 (60-130) for sure, but I think things will be OK as long as I add some of these back in with my "youthful" players (and in Major Junior) so that the overall quality/variability of the talent pool remains about the same as the default db

RE PLAYER SALARY Scaling is exactly what I want to find the time to do.....I think my limitations are "I'm going to have 1974 players making 2006 dollar amounts".....so it becomes "relative" from there - top salary amounts from 2006 will go to top players from 1974 like Orr, Esposito, Parent, Clarke, etc [I'm pretty sure I've read that others have tried unsuccessfully to severely reduce salary amounts].
I do know that I don't want immediate contract/waiver issues to "ruin the mood" at start-up...


RE testing and how I'm running Enhanced/Maximum for NHL/AHL/ECHL/CHL + Major Junior...I started a couple hours ago and the sim is in May 2007 right now, so it takes awhile!

[archibalduk]

Player regeneration
When a player retires, a new player (which we normally call a "regen") will be created two years later. As I understand it, a regen will have the following attributes which will be the same as the retired player:

• Height
• Weight
• Shoots/Catches
• Positional values for each position (i.e. G, LD ,RD , LW, C, RW)
• Offensive Role
• Defensive Role
• Potential Ability
• Consistency
• Flair
• Injury proneness

Generally speaking, European regens will be aged 15 and North American regens will be 14 when they are first created in the game.

The regen player will have a randomised CA - i.e. they won't carry over the CA from the retired player. However, they will share the same PA. Those with higher PAs are likely to develop quicker and reach higher CAs early on - unless, perhaps, if they encounter a number of serious injuries, etc which could hamper their development.

This is a very useful, albeit long, thread which has a lot of info about regens: http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... =17&t=3605

Player Salaries
My understanding is that the level of salaries is fixed / hardcoded within the game. I think you're best off sticking with the 2006 salaries. If you have the salary data for the players from 1974 then you might be able to convert them to 2006 equivalents if you can find out how much the US Dollar has inflated since 1974. That might be a bit too much of a rigid/technical approach however. You're probably best making educated estimates of what they would have earned had they been playing in 2006.

Testing
I think so long as you use the Maximum size of database, it shouldn't matter so much whether you use enhanced or normal level of detail for each league when testing. The leagues should ideally stand up to simulation at both Enhanced and Normal. IIRC using the Maximum setting for the database will ensure all players are loaded irrespective of what number leagues you choose to include in a saved game.

[nino33]

Thank you for the reply.

I appreciate the info on regens, and the link (when the project itself is 12 months long no thread is to long! )

I don't have a grid table of the salary data, lots of specific examples from the Hockey News BUT in the end I'm not really looking to "match' anything accurately but instead I just don't want salary issues and signing players to be a major thing at start-up (what I was just starting to do in the NHL is give players contract lengths based on how long they stayed with their 1974 team.....a one year contract if they were with a new team by 1975-76, a two year deal if they left by 1976-77, etc AND I was thinking a relative dollar scale based on 2006 salary amounts and a CA/PA average of some sort).....I kinda looked at it like the way a Challenge is played and you'd work pretty much with what you started with and build through the draft and development (as a goal)

And thanks for the thoughts on Testing...I've put Testing aside until later next week as I have some mind numbing but vital basic editing to focus on right now (I need to finish sorting through another couple hundred players to place in minor pro or major junior, and then add a couple hundred players to the AHL (prep work is already done), and also add a couple hundred players to the "youth minor hockey leagues" (prep work in progress).....so ya, some mind numbing editing but really close to being "done'" and able to move on to other tasks (next week sometime I'm thinking)

[Manimal]

Awesome job!

I see you mentioning using old magazines and league guides. Have you checked out this site? http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues.html They have lots of stats from the past

History of NHL trades: http://nhltradeshistory.blogspot.com/

I would prefer if there isn't ANY modern-day players in the game. I, myself enjoy playing in the minors and that would be something I'd be looking for. Just change their names by picking from the phone-book or something.

I probably have lots of other ideas. I'll post them when I get them

[nino33]

Thanks Manimal! And I'd love to see your ideas...
And you'll be pleased to know AHLers are the actual minor leaguers from 1974 (no modern players and no "phone book players" either), and there should be no modern players with a CA/PA between 100-200 worldwide.

A very brief project status update - things are going very well! The player review/movement that needed to be completed to bring the db fully to 1974 has been pretty much completed.....Major Junior and College/University "draft worthy players" populated. AHL partially populated (195 players so far), and lots of testing!

AND some success (so far) at keeping Europeans/Russians in Europe/Russia - if age 20+ adjusting Player Reputation avoids the NHL Release Clause at game start-up.......if under age 20 I'm testing (successfully!) starting a game with such players showing as age 20, then immediately saving the game and then using the Save Game Editor to "correct" their ages...the result - high CA/PA teenage Russians with long term contracts and no NHL Release Clause!

Regards

[Manimal]

What teams do you have in the AHL? You mentioned the various leagues from 74-75 but that totals more than the 27 teams in the AHL.
I got excited by this update of yours so I went and checked the junior teams of that date and then added the coming teams from the leagues to match the number of franchises. I skipped having multiple teams in the same city or with the same nickname.
Here's what I came up with

[table][tr][th]WHL[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Saskatoon Blades[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Victoria Cougars[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Lethbridge Broncos[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Medicine Hat Tigers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Regina Pats[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Westminster Bruins[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Brandon Wheat Kings[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kamloops Chiefs[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Winnipeg Clubs[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Edmonton Oil Kings[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Flin Flon Bombers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Calgary Centennials[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Billings Bighorns[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Portland Winter Hawks[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Great Falls Americans[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Seattle Breakers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Prince Albert Raiders[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spokane Flyers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Moose Jaw Warriors[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Nanaimo Islanders[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kelowna Wings[/td][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][th]QMJHL[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Trois Rivieres Draveurs[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sherbrooke Beavers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Quebec Remparts[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Montreal Red Blue and White[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Chicoutimi Sagueneens[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cornwall Royals[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sorel Black Hawks[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hull Festivals[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shawinigan Dynamos[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Laval National[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Granby Bisons[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Longueuil Chevaliers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Drummondville Voltigeurs[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Verdun Juniors[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Victoriaville Tigres[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Plattsburgh Pioneers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]St. Hyacinthe Lasers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]St. Jean Lynx[/td][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][th]OHL[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Toronto Marlboros[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Peterborough Petes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hamilton Fincups[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ottawa 67s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sudbury Wolves[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]St. Catharine's Black Hawks[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Oshawa Generals[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kingston Canadians[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]London Knights[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kitchener Rangers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Windsor Spitfires[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Niagara Falls Flyers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Brantford Alexanders[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Belleville Bulls[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]North Bay Centennials[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Guelph Platers[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Detroit Compuware Ambassadors[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Owen Sound Attack[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Newmarket Royals[/td][/tr][/table]

I'd gladly do this with the minor leagues, as well !

[nino33]

Hi Manimal

Not sure what you mean...are you suggesting I change all/most of the teams in all of the Major Junior and Minor Leagues for version 1.0?
Because I don't think I could do so without significantly delaying a release... I don't see having the time, BUT having said that I really can't be sure where I'll be at in a couple weeks

Most of the prep work is done for most everything and has been for months, including the minors (for just 1974 I have the weekly Hockey News newspapers for the entire 1974 year + nine 1974-75 NHL Yearbooks + the 1974-75 NHL/WHA Guides + AHL/IHL Guides + WHL/OHA Guides + the Internet)...and I've gone through and taken notes, made spreadsheets.....I've got the data. And in order to proceed at a reasonable pace I've just been putting players in the right league, and only sometimes on the right "team" - it was trying to decide regarding the New Westminster Bruins that resulted in me deciding I'd get the right guys this time, and I'll move them around to the exact right teams next time (the 1974-75 Bruins are TWO modern teams!)
RE the minor pro leagues...in 1974-75 there were 5 main minor pro leagues (AHL, CHL, IHL, NAHL, SHL) and from them I have rosters already prepared on paper for 20 teams (I still have 7 to complete)...but only three of those teams are in the 1974 db at this point - it's just taking the time to do all the tedious, time consuming editing. I have the summer off and having been working 15 hours a day...
The only data I could really use (for a future update) is the elite league rosters for Sweden/Finland/Czechoslovakia/Russia for 1974-75 (or close to it).....

RE changing teams in Major Junior/Minor Pro: If someone wanted to prepare all the Team/Arena data in excel, and determine which teams the players go on for Major Junior (I can provide a player list) then I can see doing more, but I know how busy you are with the modern rosters and it's a lot of work.....

My focus has been on Rosters and mostly on functionality - it looks like I've succeeded in keeping Europeans/Russians in Europe/Russia.....that is huge for making the db playable. I'm still finishing the editing of ALL players worldwide who are AHL quality or better + adding in the top historical players/youth from Sweden/Finland/Czechoslovakia (it is so cool to see things like the World Cup with Canada going up against these classic opponents and all historical players) - so my focus has been on #1 the functionality and #2 the players
Right now I feel pretty good about the "minor hockey leagues" (looks like down to age 8 for version 1.0) AND I feel pretty good about holding off the European/Russian Invasion; I've been doing multiple 10 year tests regarding height/weight progression - young players (whether 8 or 16) have an immediate gain in height/weight on day one at start-up, and then it seems like little if any further growth (haven't reviewed beyond age 18-19 yet) .....still working on reviewing/editing modern players + creating historical players (mostly done), and then waiver issues (contracts) are going to be on my radar + NHL Staffing.....AND THEN I'm going to enjoy a slower, sorta playing test

Regards

P.S. Keep in mind when it comes to Major Junior it's not just the number of teams that is different, but back then few players under 20 were drafted - so when you "transfer" 1974 to modern times you have 17 and even 18 year olds who are not yet in major Junior (because Draft Age was basically 20 being 18 back then was NOT the same as being 18 today), and you have a LOT of undrafted 19/20 year olds (until) the first Draft.....so it really takes some thinking to make uniform decisions

[Manimal]

Hi Manimal

Not sure what you mean...are you suggesting I change all/most of the teams in all of the Major Junior and Minor Leagues for version 1.0?
Because I don't think I could do so without significantly delaying a release... I don't see having the time, BUT having said that I really can't be sure where I'll be at in a couple weeks

Of course not. That will take too long a time and set back your release.

Most of the prep work is done for most everything and has been for months, including the minors (for just 1974 I have the weekly Hockey News newspapers for the entire 1974 year + nine 1974-75 NHL Yearbooks + the 1974-75 NHL/WHA Guides + AHL/IHL Guides + WHL/OHA Guides + the Internet)...and I've gone through and taken notes, made spreadsheets.....I've got the data. And in order to proceed at a reasonable pace I've just been putting players in the right league, and only sometimes on the right "team" - it was trying to decide regarding the New Westminster Bruins that resulted in me deciding I'd get the right guys this time, and I'll move them around to the exact right teams next time (the 1974-75 Bruins are TWO modern teams!)

I don't understand. What do you mean by two teams?

RE the minor pro leagues...in 1974-75 there were 5 main minor pro leagues (AHL, CHL, IHL, NAHL, SHL) and from them I have rosters already prepared on paper for 20 teams (I still have 7 to complete)...but only three of those teams are in the 1974 db at this point - it's just taking the time to do all the tedious, time consuming editing. I have the summer off and having been working 15 hours a day...
The only data I could really use (for a future update) is the elite league rosters for Sweden/Finland/Czechoslovakia/Russia for 1974-75 (or close to it).....

RE changing teams in Major Junior/Minor Pro: If someone wanted to prepare all the Team/Arena data in excel, and determine which teams the players go on for Major Junior (I can provide a player list) then I can see doing more, but I know how busy you are with the modern rosters and it's a lot of work.....

I find this kind of thing really fun to do but, as you said, I am dreadfully busy with the modern update. I just did those junior leagues because I couldn't sleep and wanted a change from my usual, not always so funny, work with the Lidas-rosters

My focus has been on Rosters and mostly on functionality - it looks like I've succeeded in keeping Europeans/Russians in Europe/Russia.....that is huge for making the db playable. I'm still finishing the editing of ALL players worldwide who are AHL quality or better + adding in the top historical players/youth from Sweden/Finland/Czechoslovakia (it is so cool to see things like the World Cup with Canada going up against these classic opponents and all historical players) - so my focus has been on #1 the functionality and #2 the players

Ooh, the thought of the Canada Cup/World Cup/Olympics with these rosters make me salivate
I didn't start to follow hockey until the mid-late eighties, but still.

Right now I feel pretty good about the "minor hockey leagues" (looks like down to age 8 for version 1.0) AND I feel pretty good about holding off the European/Russian Invasion; I've been doing multiple 10 year tests regarding height/weight progression - young players (whether 8 or 16) have an immediate gain in height/weight on day one at start-up, and then it seems like little if any further growth (haven't reviewed beyond age 18-19 yet) .....still working on reviewing/editing modern players + creating historical players (mostly done), and then waiver issues (contracts) are going to be on my radar + NHL Staffing.....AND THEN I'm going to enjoy a slower, sorta playing test

Regards

P.S. Keep in mind when it comes to Major Junior it's not just the number of teams that is different, but back then few players under 20 were drafted - so when you "transfer" 1974 to modern times you have 17 and even 18 year olds who are not yet in major Junior (because Draft Age was basically 20 being 18 back then was NOT the same as being 18 today), and you have a LOT of undrafted 19/20 year olds (until) the first Draft.....so it really takes some thinking to make uniform decisions

I think you should have them all available to be drafted in 1975. It may not be too realistic, but somethings got to give. We've had to let some things go by with the Lidas rosters just for 'playability'.
That is the most important thing(you've seen it too)

[nino33]

it was trying to decide regarding the New Westminster Bruins that resulted in me deciding I'd get the right guys this time, and I'll move them around to the exact right teams next time (the 1974-75 Bruins are TWO modern teams!)

I don't understand. What do you mean by two teams?

New Westminster Bruins
- started as the Estevan Bruins in 1966
- became the New Westminster Bruins in 1971
- moved to Kamloops in 1981 (and have been there ever since)

New Westminster Bruins
- started as Calgary Bruins in 1966
- were the Calgary Centennials from 1967-77
- became the Billings Bighorns 1977-82
- became the Nanaimo Islanders 1982-83
- became the New Westminster Bruins 1983-88
- became the Tri-City Americans in 1988 and have been ever since

So New Westminster/Calgary/Kamloops/Billings/Nanaimo are in one sense all the same franchise!

Maybe it makes little difference in the end but I’ve not yet taken the time to plan it all out (and that is usually how I work)… I think I’ll be inclined to take the 1974 Major Junior Teams and then add from there, but I know that I may want to change things a bit in addition to just adding more teams AND I think to some extent it connects to AHL decisions (i.e. if you have an AHL team in Victoria do you have a WHL team there too?)

And once I have the teams how do I populate them? At game start-up due to the editing I have done pretty much the only decent players worldwide are the historical players – so do non-historical Major Junior teams get really average teams? Probably…

I’ve put off deciding these kinds of things until I actually have all the players I want in the db actually in the db…

Regards

[CeeBee]

I'd love to play a Kamloops franchise, be it the Jr Oilers or the Blazers with a 74 roster. Whether it's with the first release or later is ok. I can only imagine how much work this is and for that I applaud you and Manimal and anyone else who is doing or has done a database

[Manimal]

So New Westminster/Calgary/Kamloops/Billings/Nanaimo are in one sense all the same franchise!

I have lots of that in the lists I put up. I just went by name and not keeping relocating franchises. If you do that you will have lots of more modern teamnames and I like the older ones.

And once I have the teams how do I populate them?

In the Lidas DB, we have some empty teams. The game does not fill them with new players, only 'grey' ones. That is players that change every day and is there only to fill the minimum requirements.

[nino33]

Grey players eh.....I did not know about that....interesting.

Some things are "personal preference" and for me.....the Kamloops WHL team will (eventually) for sure be the Kamloops Chiefs.....I watched them play there! I remember watching goalie Mark Earp back in 1974-1976! Same with the Victoria Cougars (I watched Grant Fuhr play there before he was drafted), saw the classic New Westminster Bruins (their Queens Park Arena was one of the most intimidating places to play in any league, ever!).....

When the db is "fully fuctioning" (i.e. no waiver/contract issues) and the historical players are all populated, then I will move on to teams....

It's the little details that I'm trying to focus on (like referee names from 1974! no modern referee names).....so when I tackle teams I''ll want things like arena/attendance to be as close to correct as I can get it (and when getting to actually looking at team logos/colours sometimes some decions may be re-thought!)

Regards

[Manimal]

Deciding what teams should be in is the fun part, and could be done in a number of ways. It is up to you to choose how it's done. As I wrote before, I'd try to have as many non-modern teams as possible and I wouldn't care too much about having two teams in that are really the same franchise, just re-located. I'd love to take a few hours and set the teams up, but I guess you also like to do this kind of thing.

The problem is not having enough historical players. There are a lot more teams in playable leagues in the game than there were iRL 1974.
Will you fill them with modern-under-100-CA players or make-up names? If you decide to fill them at all. That is a future question and maybe it is not a big one. It could be just a few of us interested in the minor pro leagues, I don't know.

[nino33]

could be just a few of us interested in the minor pro leagues

That's OK as I love the detail!..

Do people play beyond the AHL/ECHL? Does anyone play the CHL? My current thinking doesn't really include the CHL yet...
Are there common playable leagues that are played?

In 2006-07 there are 27 AHL teams + 25 ECHL teams...so 52 teams.
In my notebook I have 42 teams from the 5 Leagues in 1974...so I've got a LOT of players, and many of these teams have 25 or more players and many teams have more than one NHL/WHA affiliation.....the ECHL teams in-game never seem to have more than 20 players,,,is this true?
One posibility may be to expand the 42 teams from 1974 to the 52 teams from 2006 by seperating the 1974 affiliations and creating two teams for in-game from the single IRL team in 1974.....and maybe some teams will have "grey players" (I'm just learning about these guys now)

Deciding what teams should be in is the fun part

but I guess you also like to do this kind of thing.

Exactly! But I promise I will inviolve others when I get to the point I'm considering team names.....All the players need to be in the db and that's not done yet, and I'm learning so much as I go that I can't say for sure what next week or the week after might bring...

Regards

[CeeBee]

When I play the NHL I usually play my farm teams as well. It's a bit bit different than playing them alone but I still take pleasure in getting my AHL or EHCL team to a championship so I will look forward to the minor leagues as well.