EHM The Blue Line

Vserazum wrote:You are absolutely right. I was hoping that Bill (Bylialetdinov's nickname ) will enlist in roster those players that are waiting there, with national team. But these insatiable Ovi and Semi don't want to rest... I'm afraid it can break some already existing chemistry in lines...

But if Red Machine seems being on the right track, what is happening with Suomi fellows?

It seems like team Finland ain't enough skilled for Jalonen's "Our game". If you have noticed, last year we didn't play against Canada or USA and we won Champinoship. Last time we have played against Canada was at 2009 (?) World Championships and we lost. In Olympics, Finland was nailed by USA, it was 5-0 after first 10 minutes. It's the thing that when we don't have puck, we're under big pressure, especially in own zone. USA also forechecked pretty high that Finland couldn't play it's own game. Finland failed against Canada after 35 minutes, cause Jalonen changed lines, he put Pesonen-Immonen-Granlund against Getzlafs trio that was risk move, Immonen's line is very skilled, but a bit soft. Jokinen-Koivu-Filppula played first 30 minutes well against Getzlaf's line, in 1st period they had almost 9 scoring opportunities and Getzlaf's line had only 1.

But let's see what happens on Thursday.. Lehtonen is out and Salmela got 3 game misconduct, so we have to play with only 7 defenders. Last time we have played with 7 defenders in 2008 World Championships, when Doug Shedden was coaching team Finland and Jalonen was just assistant coach.

What do you think about Salmela's 3 game penalty? I think 1-2 should have been enough, because Goligoski continued playing in next shift.

Jypfan92 wrote: What do you think about Salmela's 3 game penalty? I think 1-2 should have been enough, because Goligoski continued playing in next shift.

Wether or not the victim is injured or can continue to play is totally irrelevant in my book. Intent and malice is what I go by.
Three is fair to him and too many for Kalinin

But comparing to Sacha Treille's 4 game misconduct after this open ice hit on Roman Starchenko http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loq0kjO1 ... re=related

Manimal wrote:

Jypfan92 wrote: What do you think about Salmela's 3 game penalty? I think 1-2 should have been enough, because Goligoski continued playing in next shift.

Wether or not the victim is injured or can continue to play is totally irrelevant in my book. Intent and malice is what I go by.
Three is fair to him and too many for Kalinin

Yeah, three is fair, the hit was terrible. I'm actually glad to see the IIHF take a stand on these types of situation.
I don't think you can use the Treille-hit as comparison for the suspension, totally different animal.
Every year there seems to be a suspension on hits to the head, the Salmela-hit is a bit more rare.
While Treille could plead his case on terrible judgement, the hit by Salmela is just filthy.
He was frustrated and i think it looked a lot like he knew exactly what he was doing.

I'm not happy to see Salmela suspended, he's as important a defeceman our team has, but i don't think it's unjust.
You can't hit a guy like that. Ever. Just play through the frustration.

Mäenpää powerful one-timer After 2nd period, Finland - Kazashtan 3-0.

What a thriller Canada-Slovakia 3-4 !!!

I'm sure that Brent Sutter pets Getzlafs head... so far his skull appears.

Jypfan92 wrote:What a thriller Canada-Slovakia 3-4 !!!

Slovakia just really wanted it more, outworked Canada late. And Getzlaf's dumb penalty didn't hurt SVK's effort.

I'm excited to see Norway next, because I'm trying to figure out how the heck they got to the Quarters, and NOR figuring out a way to beat Russia would make for an epic follow-up to CAN-SVK.

awesome match!!!

Getzlaff is fantastic player but ... he was very nervous after 3:3 ... i hope Mikus will be fine for next match!!!

Slovakia go for medal!

Norway - Russia 2-2 after 2nd period.

Russia won 5-2.

And about Getzlaf: C on his jersey doesn't mean "Captain" of team, it means "Cancer". Canada drops on first round 3rd time in a row, and it ain't looking good for Olympics.

You do realize JYP..that the only thing that comes from this and is for olympics is the ranking for IIHF? There might be 5 or 6 players from this team on the Olympic team for Canada. Well maybe 8-9. But Crosby, Staal, Staal, Staal, Doughty, Stamkos...and quite a few others will knock the guys that make the team down in the depth chart.

Canada--Like Finland, Sweden, Russia, and others will be completely different teams at the Olympics. Completely different, and in reality this MEANS absolutely nothing to Canada's hopes at Sochi.

All that means anything is the NHL and PA negotiations on whether or not to go.

Yeah the sched may be a bit harder in the Olympics. Get Finland or Russian instead of a half ass nation. But not a big deal.

batdad wrote:You do realize JYP..that the only thing that comes from this and is for olympics is the ranking for IIHF? There might be 5 or 6 players from this team on the Olympic team for Canada. Well maybe 8-9. But Crosby, Staal, Staal, Staal, Doughty, Stamkos...and quite a few others will knock the guys that make the team down in the depth chart.

Canada--Like Finland, Sweden, Russia, and others will be completely different teams at the Olympics. Completely different, and in reality this MEANS absolutely nothing to Canada's hopes at Sochi.

I hate the Worlds to be honest, but the one thing I take away from it is that role players are hugely important in international competition and getting to be moreso. International games have become more and more of a grind (look at how Norway played Russia, and how Finland plays). You can't just tag the biggest names, you need to have some actual grinders willing to do whatever it takes, and take on the un-glorious tasks and roles. Team USA has no business hanging with the teams they do, but they've got about 3 units that just fly all over the ice, his stuff, and wreak havoc. Apparently, that's been enough.

The big ice surface doesn't mean what it used to mean because guys have gotten bigger and faster. And guys in Finland, Russia, Sweden, etc can all grow up playing hockey with a snarl, where they maybe didn't in years past. Canada or USA can't go in and play Norway or Germany and just hope to out-physical them anymore, because those countries have caught up with the physical and grinding game and play the same sort of way.

So maybe Canada shouldn't put so much stock into the names, and put together appropriate 3rd and 4th units when they build their teams.

No. The best players can play the roles they need to fill. Look at guys like Rick Nash..who in 2010 was basically on the shut down line for Canada. All the other countries can go ahead and make that mistake that Canada made in Japan with the likes of Rob Zamuner.

THe best players will be able to adjust to whatever role they are given. The Worlds do not pit the best on best for any country with a chance now, and never will again as long as the NHL lives.

If you are a star player....you can play whatever role you are told to play. God if Nash and Iginla can do it, any one can. Well...except maybe Semin.

batdad wrote:... But Crosby, Staal, Staal, Staal, Doughty, Stamkos...

I love the Staal, Staal, Staal part batdad! Do you think Jared will ever be as good as his big brothers?

timmy_t wrote:

batdad wrote:... But Crosby, Staal, Staal, Staal, Doughty, Stamkos...

I love the Staal, Staal, Staal part batdad! Do you think Jared will ever be as good as his big brothers?

Sadly no, as he's having a hard time cracking an AHL line up. But I do honestly believe that those 3 Staals will be on Team Canada come the Olympics. Also Team Canada doesn't have the best players AVAILABLE on the team, no Crosby, no Nash, no Iginla, No Staal # 1 and # 3. I mean the goalies are Cam Ward and Devan freakin' Dubnyk.

Cam Ward may be the #1 goalie in Sochi. Don't down play him. Other options are not strong, Canada in net is not at the best point. Other options: Carey Price, Roberto Luongo, Mike Smith....see what I mean?

But our top forwards and dmen will be there if the NHL?NHLPA figure things out in time.

And sorry but no one with a hockey mind can say that players from Canada (top level guys...stars) cannot play gritty, defensive hockey. I mean the three names listed above that are all the same...yeah real issue with grit. Yet also stars. Also Jamie Benn, and that kid in Pittsburgh (Not Sid) that used to be in Dallas might provide a little of that.

Canada will ice a line up of its best players. That does not mean top skill players, although the top skill players are not soft in this country for the most part

batdad wrote:No. The best players can play the roles they need to fill. Look at guys like Rick Nash..who in 2010 was basically on the shut down line for Canada. All the other countries can go ahead and make that mistake that Canada made in Japan with the likes of Rob Zamuner.

Kris Draper and Kirk Maltby's gold medals from the 2004 World Cup disagree with that. Zamuner was a bad pick because he was a bad pick, not because the idea was wrong. Everyone always cites the Zamuner pick but forgets other picks that worked out well. Zamuner sucked because he was a bottom six forward on an ineffective, bad Tampa Bay team that had no success. He was a poor pick for his role anyways.

Some of the top-tier players *can* play 3rd and 4th line like needs to be done, for sure. Most 3rd and 4th line NHLers were big scorers in juniors after all and had to make a similar adjustment. But not all of them can. And quite frankly I think it's becoming a lost art amongst that tier of guys. They don't sign on to grind and play shut-down line time for their country. Why not bring on a couple guys who actually do that role anyways and have practice at it, and will relish it?

2004 is a long time ago. Again, look at 2010. Who were Canadian role players? Iginla, Nash...On D Seabrook and Keith...Doughty. The best do all of it. ANd they can do it better than many of the slugs that some are thinking.

Draper and Maltby are different--those two guys were ELITE players of the d variety. Yet..if you go back and look at their numbers from 2004...they also contributed offensively.

And TBH..when Canada picked Zamuner there was a reason. HE had been awesome the year before and that season.

Quite honestly...The thought that some plug 3rd liner from an NHL team will play for CANADA at the Olympics is idiocy.

Jonathon Toews not capable of shut down gritty role? Seriously those who think that the elite players in CAnada cannot play gritty hockey are so wrong....clueless and not real hockey people. Toews not better at the grit and shutdown than lets say...I dunno....

Lineup of forwards for Canada

Stamkos-Crosby-Neal
Perry-Giroux-E Staal
Sharp-Toews-Nash
Hall-RNH-Benn
Getzlaf-Bergeron-Moulson
M Richards-Hartnell-Carter
J Staal-Eberle-Couture-
Seguin-Lucic-Tavares
Spezza-Lupul-Kunitz

Oh wait how many lines there of stars...and not too many not capable of playing in own zone or grit.
Not necessarily those lines...but you telling me that is not going to be gritty enough? Hah. Funny. Least of the problems

D

Weber-Doughty
Keith-Letang
Fowler-Seabrook
Hamhuis-Subhan
Burns-Bieksa
Phaneuf-Del Zotto
GIrardi- M Staal

Not listed in any order other than who came to my mind.

Just a few to choose from there too. Not even including old guys like Boyle or Campbell.

Canada is never the most skilled team. They are ALWAYS the most gritty...even when they take their star players. Give it a rest guys.

batdad wrote:You do realize JYP..that the only thing that comes from this and is for olympics is the ranking for IIHF? There might be 5 or 6 players from this team on the Olympic team for Canada. Well maybe 8-9. But Crosby, Staal, Staal, Staal, Doughty, Stamkos...and quite a few others will knock the guys that make the team down in the depth chart.

Canada--Like Finland, Sweden, Russia, and others will be completely different teams at the Olympics. Completely different, and in reality this MEANS absolutely nothing to Canada's hopes at Sochi.

All that means anything is the NHL and PA negotiations on whether or not to go.

Yeah the sched may be a bit harder in the Olympics. Get Finland or Russian instead of a half ass nation. But not a big deal.

I'm not talking about just some games or just player names, I'm saying that they will have pretty hard group, cause they have poor positions in latest World Championships (but Olympic gold). Their group would have Russia, USA and Slovakia.

It does not matter which group you are in.
If you want to win, you have to be able to beat everyone

And 22 of those players listed above have just as good a chance as anyone else. In fact, a better chance then almost all of them. Equal with Sweden, USA, Russia.

Like Manimal says....and my only point to you JYP--Group does not matter at all. Ranking does not matter at all. What matters is what they know they are capable of doing...and in Canada...that is beating everyone. And the boys know they can.

batdad wrote: D

Weber-Doughty
Keith-Letang
Fowler-Seabrook
Hamhuis-Subhan
Burns-Bieksa
Phaneuf-Del Zotto
GIrardi- M Staal

Fowler is playing for the U.S. National Team

Right...I meant whazz his face..the kid playing right now...Murray.

batdad wrote:Right...I meant whazz his face..the kid playing right now...Murray.

No, you didn't.

You were just wrong

batdad wrote:Cam Ward may be the #1 goalie in Sochi. Don't down play him. Other options are not strong, Canada in net is not at the best point. Other options: Carey Price, Roberto Luongo, Mike Smith....see what I mean?

It's too early to assume Mike Smith, I mean yeah he's had a great playoffs thus far. Last year after the Chi/Van Series everyone was saying how Corey Crawford is going to be awesome and some even said he'd suit up for Sochi in 2014, how good is he now? After a full season? Not taking anything away from Smith, but I'd re-evaluate him after next season.