The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Is. Bobby still crying? Maybe he should have you know put some effort into his performances this year instead of floating and goal sucking. Bad sign for the world if USA is finally looking for team players instead of head down guys who try and go end to end all the time. Good news is---they still have very few of those team players.
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jesterx7769
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
In the article with the teams GM's/directors they said they didn't think he was suited for the bigger ice.jhcjobpb wrote:Nobody mentioned Pominville?!
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jesterx7769
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
According to the article the coaches weren't going to use him on the PP due to other top wingers and his low PP point % (which is understandable with their top wings). If they weren't going to use him on the PP they were worried about putting a "not fast" (didn't want to say slow) primary offense player as their 3rd/4th liner who wouldn't play on the PK either so they went with more well rounded people.batdad wrote:Is. Bobby still crying? Maybe he should have you know put some effort into his performances this year instead of floating and goal sucking. Bad sign for the world if USA is finally looking for team players instead of head down guys who try and go end to end all the time. Good news is---they still have very few of those team players.
I'm a little shocked at how the quotes came out from the article and understand if Ryan feels poopy after reading them. Being called a sleepy skater, non-intense, and having your old GM say he wanted to draft Jack Johnson over you can't feel good.
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
I love BRian Burke comment. Bobby does not even know how to spell intense. He is not intense, he brings no intensity. LOL
Cry Bobby....Burkey in his truculent way...called you out. LOL.
Bobby is what Tortorella would call a WEIRD guy.
Cry Bobby....Burkey in his truculent way...called you out. LOL.
Bobby is what Tortorella would call a WEIRD guy.
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Primis
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Yandle was left off because he is wiiiiiiiildly overrated. He often doesn't understand what's going on out on the ice still, seems lost. I think he, like Jack Johnson, spent far too much time reacting and relying upon reactions and instinct than actually learning the game very well.
I know people really consider Erik Johnson a huge disappointment. Jack Johnson is very polarizing amongst the hockey community -- you either love him or think he's worthless, no middle ground.
At the end of the day though you HAVE to have a guy like Orpik on there because there are just far too many offense-first American d-men and none of them are exactly responsible in their own end. I honestly wasn't surprised DeKeyser had an outside shot at the team because as a defense-first guy he was going to be in the mix. And you gotta' have one or two big guys that can clear the crease as well.
I won't pretend to understand why Martin is there though.
And at the end of the day... remember who is in charge of the team, and remember how ultimately that person doesn't have the slightest clue what to do with any actual talent because he's never had any whatsoever in Nashville.
I know people really consider Erik Johnson a huge disappointment. Jack Johnson is very polarizing amongst the hockey community -- you either love him or think he's worthless, no middle ground.
At the end of the day though you HAVE to have a guy like Orpik on there because there are just far too many offense-first American d-men and none of them are exactly responsible in their own end. I honestly wasn't surprised DeKeyser had an outside shot at the team because as a defense-first guy he was going to be in the mix. And you gotta' have one or two big guys that can clear the crease as well.
I won't pretend to understand why Martin is there though.
And at the end of the day... remember who is in charge of the team, and remember how ultimately that person doesn't have the slightest clue what to do with any actual talent because he's never had any whatsoever in Nashville.
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Yandle--zero hockey sense, lots of individual skill.
Jack Johnson-zero hockey sense, lots of individual skill.
Erik Johnson--some hockey sense, just okay skill. But better than the other two.
Yeah...gotta wonder on Martin. Orpik is no problem for me. Martin is just a guy.
DeKeyser is too inexperienced yet. He will be a decent one.
Any way...you will note the guys left off the roster have almost always got the same thing in common--low or no hockey sense and intensity.
Jack Johnson-zero hockey sense, lots of individual skill.
Erik Johnson--some hockey sense, just okay skill. But better than the other two.
Yeah...gotta wonder on Martin. Orpik is no problem for me. Martin is just a guy.
DeKeyser is too inexperienced yet. He will be a decent one.
Any way...you will note the guys left off the roster have almost always got the same thing in common--low or no hockey sense and intensity.
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Primis
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
And yet, there sits Oshie on the roster.batdad wrote:Any way...you will note the guys left off the roster have almost always got the same thing in common--low or no hockey sense and intensity.
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
The Americans do not have enough guys with sense to make a roster. They are not there yet.
THere is a Bantam tournament and a Midget tournament in town here every Christmas. I go out and watch a fair bit of it every year. It never ceases to amaze me...American teams...whether they are from Phoenix, Colorado, Alaska, LA or Texas show up to play and play the same way.
Passing and moving the puck is not taught. It is clear...not taught much. All the time guys go one on 2 one on 3 one on 4 and cough up the puck. THere are a whole ton of Ryan Kesler like players who skate well, handle the puck well...but think they are still in novice hockey and can rush the puck up the ice.... each and every time.
They rarely if ever (I think I recall one Phoenix team) do well in the tournaments unless the tournament is weak (ie the BC clubs sending their 2nd team, or small associations show up with their teams).
AT age 14-16 they are not being taught to use the other players on the ice, and just go up ice bang crash lose puck back to own zone. If they get out of own zone.
It is a real difference in the way the amateur hockey players are being taught. Individual skill is focused too heavily in the USA all the way through the system and not enough time is spent on learning to work with other players (system, passing, using the ice and teammates) whereas in CAnada TOO MUCH time is spent on moving the puck, using teammates and systems, and not enough on individual skills.
It is why you get Patrick Kane from the USA, but it is also why you get guys like Bobby Ryan, Keith Yandle, Jack Johnson and the likes. Good players, but could be so much better if were working on the team game earlier.
It is why in Canada you get guys like Mike Ribeiro, and Sid Crosby but also get guys who just do not have the skill set that their athletic abilities and bodies say they should have...like Zack Kassian, and even to some extent Cody Hodgson and his weak skating.
Canadian flaws in the pro level are often based in not having good skill set development. American flaws are often not being taught the game at a young enough age...not watching it enough (because of access) and not being taught to keep head up and look around them.
There are exceptions to these rules, but it is really really clear and obvious the differences when you watch at the amateur and minor level.
THere is a Bantam tournament and a Midget tournament in town here every Christmas. I go out and watch a fair bit of it every year. It never ceases to amaze me...American teams...whether they are from Phoenix, Colorado, Alaska, LA or Texas show up to play and play the same way.
Passing and moving the puck is not taught. It is clear...not taught much. All the time guys go one on 2 one on 3 one on 4 and cough up the puck. THere are a whole ton of Ryan Kesler like players who skate well, handle the puck well...but think they are still in novice hockey and can rush the puck up the ice.... each and every time.
They rarely if ever (I think I recall one Phoenix team) do well in the tournaments unless the tournament is weak (ie the BC clubs sending their 2nd team, or small associations show up with their teams).
AT age 14-16 they are not being taught to use the other players on the ice, and just go up ice bang crash lose puck back to own zone. If they get out of own zone.
It is a real difference in the way the amateur hockey players are being taught. Individual skill is focused too heavily in the USA all the way through the system and not enough time is spent on learning to work with other players (system, passing, using the ice and teammates) whereas in CAnada TOO MUCH time is spent on moving the puck, using teammates and systems, and not enough on individual skills.
It is why you get Patrick Kane from the USA, but it is also why you get guys like Bobby Ryan, Keith Yandle, Jack Johnson and the likes. Good players, but could be so much better if were working on the team game earlier.
It is why in Canada you get guys like Mike Ribeiro, and Sid Crosby but also get guys who just do not have the skill set that their athletic abilities and bodies say they should have...like Zack Kassian, and even to some extent Cody Hodgson and his weak skating.
Canadian flaws in the pro level are often based in not having good skill set development. American flaws are often not being taught the game at a young enough age...not watching it enough (because of access) and not being taught to keep head up and look around them.
There are exceptions to these rules, but it is really really clear and obvious the differences when you watch at the amateur and minor level.
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Primis
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
I will say this: I don't know much of anything about Colorado, Alaska, Texas, Phoenix, Vegas, Cali youth teams or how successful any of them are. I know the more successful ones around the Great Lakes/Midwest and I know they show very well against Canadian programs. Belle Tire, Compuware, Honeybaked, Little Caesars, Jr/Amateur Blues...
What you're saying though re: skillset is true. They're too happy to groom Umbergers, Keslers, Backeseseses, etc... and nobody is really trying to develop just plain elite scorers. Truth is, a Patrick Kane is kinda' scorned. However I think it's also because they emphasize defense/hitting for their scorers almost too early. Nobody's going to let a bigger body develop into a Mario Lemieux-type on his own, they have to try and develop him into a true power forward instead. Everyone's afraid of having a big body who is "soft" like an Eric Daze was, and honestly they don't like big-body centers either and try to stick them on wing.
Everyone keeps waiting for an Americans generational scorer to show up finally, but truth is he maybe already has but they coached it out of him.
What you're saying though re: skillset is true. They're too happy to groom Umbergers, Keslers, Backeseseses, etc... and nobody is really trying to develop just plain elite scorers. Truth is, a Patrick Kane is kinda' scorned. However I think it's also because they emphasize defense/hitting for their scorers almost too early. Nobody's going to let a bigger body develop into a Mario Lemieux-type on his own, they have to try and develop him into a true power forward instead. Everyone's afraid of having a big body who is "soft" like an Eric Daze was, and honestly they don't like big-body centers either and try to stick them on wing.
Everyone keeps waiting for an Americans generational scorer to show up finally, but truth is he maybe already has but they coached it out of him.
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Sometimes they do well...definitely. Because of skill set encouragement and often size. But as they move up the ladder there is more to it than that. aT the younger levels...that is all that is needed. But they are as you say somwhat discouraged from looking outside the box of what they are tought. I would not say coached out of them....but not shown to them.
Until recently, hockey was not easy to watch in the USA on TV..so they did not see what the Special players of other eras did and how they saw the game. The thinking of the game is not taught not talked about....skill and size and get up the ice is what is tought. I watch these kids play and with some of them (the Shore brothers, and a couple of others stick out) if they had more to see and more to watch.....they may have developed more vision and ability I dare say the same for Kesler, Backes, Booth, Umberger would be the same.....
Kane is special. VEry special...but he is outside the box thinking from what USA hockey teaches. There is another level that they need to get to in order to put out the elite player who has the special skills of guys like Crosby, Datsyuk, to some extent Thornton, Jagr, etc.
I hear it described as tunnel vision. American players are looking at their feet and what is straight in front of them. They do not read the game or see the game as well as Canadians, Russians, Swedes, Czechs. In some ways...Finland is similar to USA....but they are coming.
I think it comes down to growing up with the game and watching it a ton. The coaches in the USA may be parents just like in Canada and until recently no top level NHLers were coaching their kids in the USA. That is starting to happen. The coaches are starting to learn, and the creativity and vision could be coming in the next generation of Amercian players. It is just a familiarity with the game that goes beyond seeing the goals and where the puck is.
Alot of the time at a game I watch I am not following the puck. Often I am looking to see what guys do without it. And where they go...and better ones at thinking the game...end up with the puck on their stick some how some way. I rarely see this occur with American players at the minor and junior levels. It does happen, but not nearly as often as it does with kids from up here.
In the last few years in Western CAnada--Nugent Hokins, Matthew Barzal, Nic Petan, Sam REinhart, Ty Schultz, Benson, Clague, Griffin Reinhart, and a few others have shown me that they have this ability. They anticpate or see what is happening before it happens and are always getting to the puck...at the lower levels. As they age it is not as easy for them to do this. But they make special things happen.
FOr Amercian players...I can only think of a couple i have seen who do this...Seth Jones, a kid out of Texas whose name escapes me, and a couple of Portland Winterhawks.
The rest of the Amercians are straight up and down the ice and not crazy skilled. They can handle the puck, but cannot Patrick Kane...they do not see their teammates or use them. I really believe it will be coming soon...as coaches in the States are more exposed to the game now, and are more interested in it. It is not just dad who played football coaching the team because they need a coach. Now the USA in some areas are getting guys who have played the game, and played the game at the higher levels involved in coaching and this will make things better.
Until recently, hockey was not easy to watch in the USA on TV..so they did not see what the Special players of other eras did and how they saw the game. The thinking of the game is not taught not talked about....skill and size and get up the ice is what is tought. I watch these kids play and with some of them (the Shore brothers, and a couple of others stick out) if they had more to see and more to watch.....they may have developed more vision and ability I dare say the same for Kesler, Backes, Booth, Umberger would be the same.....
Kane is special. VEry special...but he is outside the box thinking from what USA hockey teaches. There is another level that they need to get to in order to put out the elite player who has the special skills of guys like Crosby, Datsyuk, to some extent Thornton, Jagr, etc.
I hear it described as tunnel vision. American players are looking at their feet and what is straight in front of them. They do not read the game or see the game as well as Canadians, Russians, Swedes, Czechs. In some ways...Finland is similar to USA....but they are coming.
I think it comes down to growing up with the game and watching it a ton. The coaches in the USA may be parents just like in Canada and until recently no top level NHLers were coaching their kids in the USA. That is starting to happen. The coaches are starting to learn, and the creativity and vision could be coming in the next generation of Amercian players. It is just a familiarity with the game that goes beyond seeing the goals and where the puck is.
Alot of the time at a game I watch I am not following the puck. Often I am looking to see what guys do without it. And where they go...and better ones at thinking the game...end up with the puck on their stick some how some way. I rarely see this occur with American players at the minor and junior levels. It does happen, but not nearly as often as it does with kids from up here.
In the last few years in Western CAnada--Nugent Hokins, Matthew Barzal, Nic Petan, Sam REinhart, Ty Schultz, Benson, Clague, Griffin Reinhart, and a few others have shown me that they have this ability. They anticpate or see what is happening before it happens and are always getting to the puck...at the lower levels. As they age it is not as easy for them to do this. But they make special things happen.
FOr Amercian players...I can only think of a couple i have seen who do this...Seth Jones, a kid out of Texas whose name escapes me, and a couple of Portland Winterhawks.
The rest of the Amercians are straight up and down the ice and not crazy skilled. They can handle the puck, but cannot Patrick Kane...they do not see their teammates or use them. I really believe it will be coming soon...as coaches in the States are more exposed to the game now, and are more interested in it. It is not just dad who played football coaching the team because they need a coach. Now the USA in some areas are getting guys who have played the game, and played the game at the higher levels involved in coaching and this will make things better.
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JK55
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Cezch Republic named their roster today. No Vrbata on it either. Seems funny to not include him as I feel he is one of the underrated scorers in this league!
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CJ
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
They picked Ondrej Palat but not Fleischmann, Hudler or Vrbata.JK55 wrote:Cezch Republic named their roster today. No Vrbata on it either. Seems funny to not include him as I feel he is one of the underrated scorers in this league!
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Um.....Petr Nedved. LOL
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CJ
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
He brings experience.batdad wrote:Um.....Petr Nedved. LOL
PS: He played for Canada in Lillehammer '94.
_________________________________________________________
Here's Team Finland. Saku Koivu is out, blames it on the concussion he had this season.
Goalies:
Antti Niemi, San Jose Sharks
Kari Lehtonen, Dallas Stars
Tuukka Rask, Boston Bruins
D-Men:
Juuso Hietanen, Torpedo Nizhni Novgorod
Lasse Kukkonen, Oulun Kärpät
Sami Lepistö, Avtomobilist Jekaterinburg
Olli Määttä, Pittsburgh Penguins
Sami Salo, Tampa Bay Lightning
Kimmo Timonen, Philadelphia Flyers
Sami Vatanen, Anaheim Ducks
Ossi Väänänen, Jokerit Helsinki
Forwards:
Juhamatti Aaltonen, Oulun Kärpät
Aleksander Barkov, Florida Panthers
Valtteri Filppula, Tampa Bay Lightning
Mikael Granlund, Minnesota Wild
Jussi Jokinen, Pittsburgh Penguins
Olli Jokinen, Winnipeg Jets
Mikko Koivu, Minnesota Wild
Leo Komarov, Dinamo Moskova
Petri Kontiola, Traktor Tsheljabinsk
Lauri Korpikoski, Phoenix Coyotes
Jori Lehterä, Sibir Novosibirsk
Antti Pihlström, Salavat Julajev Ufa
Tuomo Ruutu, Carolina Hurricanes
Teemu Selänne, Anaheim Ducks
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philou21
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Here's team Canada:
Fowards
Jamie Benn (Dallas)
Patrice Bergeron (Boston)
Jeff Carter (Los Angeles)
Sidney Crosby (Pittsburgh)
Matt Duchene (Colorado)
Ryan Getzlaf (Anaheim)
Chris Kunitz (Pittsburgh)
Patrick Marleau (San Jose)
Rick Nash (Rangers)
Corey Perry (Anaheim)
Patrick Sharp (Chicago)
Steven Stamkos (Tampa Bay)
John Tavares (Islanders)
Jonathan Toews (Chicago)
Defensemen
Jay Bouwmeester (St. Louis)
Drew Doughty (Los Angeles)
Dan Hamhuis (Vancouver)
Duncan Keith (Chicago)
Alex Pietrangelo (St. Louis)
P.K. Subban (Montréal)
Marc-Édouard Vlasic (San Jose)
Shea Weber (Nashville)
Goalies
Roberto Luongo (Vancouver)
Carey Price (Montréal)
Mike Smith (Phoenix)
No real surprise but I think Carter should not be there. Giroux, St. Louis even Seguin would have been better. Maybe they were too small for them though. Hamhuis seems weird to me too. Probably took him for the PK mostly. His he good in defense at least batdad? Seabrook is better IMO.
Fowards
Jamie Benn (Dallas)
Patrice Bergeron (Boston)
Jeff Carter (Los Angeles)
Sidney Crosby (Pittsburgh)
Matt Duchene (Colorado)
Ryan Getzlaf (Anaheim)
Chris Kunitz (Pittsburgh)
Patrick Marleau (San Jose)
Rick Nash (Rangers)
Corey Perry (Anaheim)
Patrick Sharp (Chicago)
Steven Stamkos (Tampa Bay)
John Tavares (Islanders)
Jonathan Toews (Chicago)
Defensemen
Jay Bouwmeester (St. Louis)
Drew Doughty (Los Angeles)
Dan Hamhuis (Vancouver)
Duncan Keith (Chicago)
Alex Pietrangelo (St. Louis)
P.K. Subban (Montréal)
Marc-Édouard Vlasic (San Jose)
Shea Weber (Nashville)
Goalies
Roberto Luongo (Vancouver)
Carey Price (Montréal)
Mike Smith (Phoenix)
No real surprise but I think Carter should not be there. Giroux, St. Louis even Seguin would have been better. Maybe they were too small for them though. Hamhuis seems weird to me too. Probably took him for the PK mostly. His he good in defense at least batdad? Seabrook is better IMO.
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Carter is freaking fantastic! Kid shoots the puck so well. He will likely get some time with Sid the Kid.
Hammer--Likely do not see enough of this kid. Smooth skater, moves the puck, physical. Slow start to year, but for the big ice this kid is going to be good.
My question mark and only because I have not paid attention to him...Vlasic.
Seabrook not there because he is limited in mobility. He went from top pair with Keith to #7 four years ago. I am not shocked he is not there on the big ice. Vlasic actually is his replacement IMHO.
4 left, 4 right shot D. Totally makes sense.
There was no way they could keep Subban off the team. That guy has been unbloody real....not to mention how do you keep a Norris Trophy winner off.
Really happy with the splits on this team....
Kunitz-Crosby-Stamkos (Carter here if Stamkos not totally ready)
Marleau-Toews-Sharp (Nash or Benn or Carter could slot in this group)
Benn-Getzlaff-Perry
Duchene-Bergeron-Nash
Tavares-Carter
Not really in order, just my thoughts on how they start in game 1. Likely to change after 1st period.
Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Keith-Doughty
Hamhuis-Weber (now does Hammer make sense? .... seen that pair somewhere before?)
Vlasic-Subban
Subban dresses as #7 and if something goes wrong in others...will get into lineup.
Luongo
Price
Smith
Luongo will be the 1st game starter. Babcock says wants to go with one guy, but likely the first two games will be split since back to back and whoever is better....gets game 3.
PP
Kunitz-Crosby-Stamkos (Carter)
Doughty-Keith
Toews-Getzlaff-Perry (Tavares-Nash-)
Subban-Weber
PK
Marleau-Bergeron
Toews-Sharp
Crosby-Nash (Getz, Perry whoever)
Hammer-Weber
Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
This team is quite fast, although there are some not fast guys. Babcock and pace....
Very pleases with selections. Smart hockey decisions and no freaking guys like Rob Zamuner.
Hammer--Likely do not see enough of this kid. Smooth skater, moves the puck, physical. Slow start to year, but for the big ice this kid is going to be good.
My question mark and only because I have not paid attention to him...Vlasic.
Seabrook not there because he is limited in mobility. He went from top pair with Keith to #7 four years ago. I am not shocked he is not there on the big ice. Vlasic actually is his replacement IMHO.
4 left, 4 right shot D. Totally makes sense.
There was no way they could keep Subban off the team. That guy has been unbloody real....not to mention how do you keep a Norris Trophy winner off.
Really happy with the splits on this team....
Kunitz-Crosby-Stamkos (Carter here if Stamkos not totally ready)
Marleau-Toews-Sharp (Nash or Benn or Carter could slot in this group)
Benn-Getzlaff-Perry
Duchene-Bergeron-Nash
Tavares-Carter
Not really in order, just my thoughts on how they start in game 1. Likely to change after 1st period.
Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Keith-Doughty
Hamhuis-Weber (now does Hammer make sense? .... seen that pair somewhere before?)
Vlasic-Subban
Subban dresses as #7 and if something goes wrong in others...will get into lineup.
Luongo
Price
Smith
Luongo will be the 1st game starter. Babcock says wants to go with one guy, but likely the first two games will be split since back to back and whoever is better....gets game 3.
PP
Kunitz-Crosby-Stamkos (Carter)
Doughty-Keith
Toews-Getzlaff-Perry (Tavares-Nash-)
Subban-Weber
PK
Marleau-Bergeron
Toews-Sharp
Crosby-Nash (Getz, Perry whoever)
Hammer-Weber
Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
This team is quite fast, although there are some not fast guys. Babcock and pace....
Very pleases with selections. Smart hockey decisions and no freaking guys like Rob Zamuner.
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Finland must be the oldest team in history...oh wait...Nedved and Jagr are a hundred as well. Vaananen and Selanne.
Sweden--No Hedman? Take Ericsson....okay...cool.
Sweden--No Hedman? Take Ericsson....okay...cool.
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Primis
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Now seems like a fun time to remind everyone that a key part of the brain trust that deemed Chris Kunitz was necessary are the same people that deemed Detroit really needed Dan Cleary back at most any cost.... and how that has worked out thus far. So.... yeah.
Also, if Crosby gets hurt isn't Kunitz kinda' pointless then?
Canada also doesn't get to make fun of Paul Martin being named to USA for chemistry when they named Dan Hamhuis to theirs for basically the same reason.
Also, if Crosby gets hurt isn't Kunitz kinda' pointless then?
Canada also doesn't get to make fun of Paul Martin being named to USA for chemistry when they named Dan Hamhuis to theirs for basically the same reason.
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
No, he is not. He also somehow knows how to play with Getz-Perry.
Somehow I knew Cleary would come up. LOL. Get the Wings management hate out of your head. Seriously THE BEST REGIME IN THE NHL over the last 20 years. You are too close to the situation there, and too focussed on success in the past 5 minutes.
You guys have not drafted in the top 15 in what 15 years? Seriously....where you are as a team when you have not done that is freaking amazing. The braintrust in Detroit is better than anywhere, with perhaps 1 exception...and funnily enough the guy who is there is an Ex Wing guy.
Somehow I knew Cleary would come up. LOL. Get the Wings management hate out of your head. Seriously THE BEST REGIME IN THE NHL over the last 20 years. You are too close to the situation there, and too focussed on success in the past 5 minutes.
You guys have not drafted in the top 15 in what 15 years? Seriously....where you are as a team when you have not done that is freaking amazing. The braintrust in Detroit is better than anywhere, with perhaps 1 exception...and funnily enough the guy who is there is an Ex Wing guy.
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Primis
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
The guy who has run those drafts is now in Dallas, and he took some key scouts with him. DET still has superstar Hakkan Andersson but... they've been thinned out.batdad wrote:No, he is not. He also somehow knows how to play with Getz-Perry.
Somehow I knew Cleary would come up. LOL. Get the Wings management hate out of your head. Seriously THE BEST REGIME IN THE NHL over the last 20 years. You are too close to the situation there, and too focussed on success in the past 5 minutes.
You guys have not drafted in the top 15 in what 15 years? Seriously....where you are as a team when you have not done that is freaking amazing. The braintrust in Detroit is better than anywhere, with perhaps 1 exception...and funnily enough the guy who is there is an Ex Wing guy.
I don't think people really understand. The last time DET was a legit Cup contender, they had SJ and OTT's current head coaches as assistants. Yzerman took one or two guys with him to TB before Nill took 2 or 3 to Dallas. The coaching and front office has taken serious hits. People like Blashill but also forget the reason he got the Grand Rapids gig was because his 1 year in DET did not exactly go well.
It's not a hate, it's a recognition that there was more to those staffs and front offices than just the GM and coach, and that many of those pieces are now gone.
I also won't lie: I hate hate HATE Babcock and Holland's association with Team Canada yet again as a fan. I'm sorry but you can't run Team Canada *and* claim to be giving 100% to your NHL jobs, you just can't. And it really does show in Olympic years, 2010 and now 2014.
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CJ
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
A few old guys, but this team is actually very young compared to, well all other teams Finland has had in the Olympic Games. Väänänen is just 33 yo.batdad wrote:Finland must be the oldest team in history...oh wait...Nedved and Jagr are a hundred as well. Vaananen and Selanne.
You could have mentioned Salo or Timonen instead. 
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
LOL. Whine and complain. Are you a Wings fan or a hater of the Wings? It makes no sense. Absolutely none.
These guys are professionals at what they do. The Wings front office and coaching is top level and absolutely no one in their right mind would think anything else. Mike Babcock is one of the smartest hockey minds behind a bench in the game. He is always looking to new ideas and to improving his coaching. Not all do that. Most just do the same thing over and over and over. Has he messed up? Sure...but unlike some cough Vigneault, cough Caryle- he learns from it and has proven it. He THINKS the game. Ken Holland has made mistakes sure, but nowhere near what 99 percent of GMs have done in the past, and he has hired some of those great guys the organization has lost. He is nothing short of the top 3 GMs in the NHL. He learned from the best in Devellano and Bowman and continues to learn and strive to get better every day. Again....COUGH BURKE COUGH...not all do that and repeat their mistakes over and over and over.
The Wings organization....ask anyone anywhere with any hockey knowledge whatsoever.....(HOCKEY SENSE) is pure class.
Honestly PRimis I am afraid with the constant criticisms of anything Wings...you are starting to sound like how I describe the American youth development program, all go and bluster and go...no sense about what is going on around them.
I hate to be mean about it, and am really trying not to.
But....look absolutely anywhere in the world and find ANY people with hockey experience and knowledge who are critical in ANY WAY of the Wings organization for the last 20-25 years, and you will shock the living rubbish out of me.
Seriously---you need to be a whole lot more patient and a whole lot more accurate to realize what you have there in Detroit. There is not a team in this league that would NOT go after Babcock, Holland if let go from Detroit. Not one. Well maybe 1...Boston.
But they should.
They have been in the top 15 in the league with NO TOP DRAFT picks. even the team I give credit to for their management has 3 or 4 top 5 picks of theirs that have developed because previous management sucked and the team sucked.
Detroit--has done what absolutely no one could do for such a long extended period of time. There tough times result in making the playoffs and losing in 2nd round. Gee...what horrible management. Sure they lost good people, but who the hell hired those good people in the first place in Detroit? Devellano, Holland, Ilitch.....
So maybe it is time just to think a bit before complaining.
Seriously before you post here again about the Wings...time to really sit back and give the management group, the scouts, the trainers and everyone else there some credit. When you are good, turnover is inevitable. The next guy is not necessarily a god to come in, but ..... give them some time.
You are so negative and so irrational about the Wings you cannot see your nose in spite of your face.
Quite honestly...you sound like a whiny Canuck fan.
These guys are professionals at what they do. The Wings front office and coaching is top level and absolutely no one in their right mind would think anything else. Mike Babcock is one of the smartest hockey minds behind a bench in the game. He is always looking to new ideas and to improving his coaching. Not all do that. Most just do the same thing over and over and over. Has he messed up? Sure...but unlike some cough Vigneault, cough Caryle- he learns from it and has proven it. He THINKS the game. Ken Holland has made mistakes sure, but nowhere near what 99 percent of GMs have done in the past, and he has hired some of those great guys the organization has lost. He is nothing short of the top 3 GMs in the NHL. He learned from the best in Devellano and Bowman and continues to learn and strive to get better every day. Again....COUGH BURKE COUGH...not all do that and repeat their mistakes over and over and over.
The Wings organization....ask anyone anywhere with any hockey knowledge whatsoever.....(HOCKEY SENSE) is pure class.
Honestly PRimis I am afraid with the constant criticisms of anything Wings...you are starting to sound like how I describe the American youth development program, all go and bluster and go...no sense about what is going on around them.
I hate to be mean about it, and am really trying not to.
But....look absolutely anywhere in the world and find ANY people with hockey experience and knowledge who are critical in ANY WAY of the Wings organization for the last 20-25 years, and you will shock the living rubbish out of me.
Seriously---you need to be a whole lot more patient and a whole lot more accurate to realize what you have there in Detroit. There is not a team in this league that would NOT go after Babcock, Holland if let go from Detroit. Not one. Well maybe 1...Boston.
But they should.
They have been in the top 15 in the league with NO TOP DRAFT picks. even the team I give credit to for their management has 3 or 4 top 5 picks of theirs that have developed because previous management sucked and the team sucked.
Detroit--has done what absolutely no one could do for such a long extended period of time. There tough times result in making the playoffs and losing in 2nd round. Gee...what horrible management. Sure they lost good people, but who the hell hired those good people in the first place in Detroit? Devellano, Holland, Ilitch.....
So maybe it is time just to think a bit before complaining.
Seriously before you post here again about the Wings...time to really sit back and give the management group, the scouts, the trainers and everyone else there some credit. When you are good, turnover is inevitable. The next guy is not necessarily a god to come in, but ..... give them some time.
You are so negative and so irrational about the Wings you cannot see your nose in spite of your face.
Quite honestly...you sound like a whiny Canuck fan.
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philou21
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
It's the only I thought why they add him. He played with Weber alot and they were good. Unlike Martin though, Hamhuis seems way better.batdad wrote:Hamhuis-Weber (now does Hammer make sense? .... seen that pair somewhere before?)
You think he will stay as the 7 d-men? I'm not sure about that really. I thought Hamhuis would be #7 but they probably want him on the PK I guess. But they want PK on the powerplay probably as well.Subban dresses as #7 and if something goes wrong in others...will get into lineup.
We'll see what they're gonna do with that.Thinking Kunitz will only be usefull with Crosby is stupid. Somebody seem to forget that there is Tavares as a back-up or whoever will be backup that can easily take his place in the line-up if something happens to Crosby or Kunitz. He's still gonna be usefull even on the fourth line without Crosby anyway.
Edit: Batdad, what do you think about the fact St.Louis did not get pick? His small size probably?
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batdad
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Meh...St Louis does alot of great things, but so does everyone else on this team. Toughest team in the world to make. I mean the NHL assist leader did not make the team either.
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philou21
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Re: The Official Olympics Hockey Thread
Yeah. I wanted your opinion because on RDS everyone is freaking out that he's not there. I wrote a post that if he wasn't from Quebec, nobody would talk about that and now I'm getting demolished in the comment section.