1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[nino33]

I am very pleased with the removal of the modern players (thanks for the push Manimal!).
It'll be even better when I can add more historical players to the Elite/Junior Leagues!
It's in the works! Lots getting done, but still lots to do...

[nino33]

I've finished removing all modern players from Major junior (WHL/OHL/QMJHL), and I've removed all modern players from the Elite/Junior Leagues for the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Russia, Germany, Sweden and Finland

I've now removed all modern Free Agent Staff too!...

ALSO I used the EHM Updater last night to delete/remove the Invalid/Retired players/staff in the 1974 database...everything seemed to work fine!

[nino33]

Just used the Updater to "create" brand new players for the first time! All seems to have worked fine!

The 1974 db used to have 80 historical players age 4-8.
The 1974 db now has 306 historical players age 1-8.




P.S. I've decided (for fun) to change my avatar frequently this summer, mostly 1970s goalie pics...it's been Ken Dryden lately, and the current pic shows Dryden in the 1972 Canada-Russia series (I've had the series on in the background lately as I'm editing)

[nino33]

Ages ago when I was changing the Major Junior teams from modern to historical teams, I created Leagues to put these removed teams in – so I had three Leagues (WHL Moved, OHL Moved and QMJHL Moved) and in them 31 modern teams…

CeeBee noticed when first testing that these leagues were populating with players! While it didn’t seem to be a problem, it was not my intention, and I made a note to myself to “fix” this issue by removing the teams from the created Leagues (thereby making them just defunct teams)…

After two straight days and many hours, I’ve “fixed” 30 of the 31 teams…but for reasons I don’t understand the Vancouver Giants cannot be moved out of the "WHL Moved League" without causing a crash! I hate crashes!

I’ve tried multiple times/ways without success…I can change the League name, but I can’t move the Vancouver Giants out (and if create a defunct Vancouver Giants and overwrite the Vancouver Giants in the League the game still crashes at start-up)…

I post this as another example of “EHM editing weirdness” that one can encounter…


Regards

[nino33]

I last posted an overall progress update on July 11th, thought I’d post another ("new stuff" in blue)…

7. Further review/editing of NHL player Attributes & NHL player OFF/DEF Roles

I still haven’t looked at this yet…

4. Editing NHL team/rink information
6. Minor Pro Divisional alignment and Affiliation connections for NHL/AHL/CHL/ECHL

LOTS done on these two…rink information (and some team information) editing has been completed for the NHL, AHL, CHL, ECHL, WHL, and OHL (currently working on QMJHL)…Minor Pro Divisional alignment has been completed! Affiliations are “mostly done” (progress as noted previously in this thread)

1. Further editing of historical AHL/CHL players
3. Reviewing/editing list of 40 Attributes for all NHL Staff

I still haven’t looked at these yet…

5. Creating hundreds more minor hockey players using the EHM Updater
2. Reviewing/editing the height/weight of all historical minor hockey players

Back on July 20th I noted that I had added well over 200 new players (in Mite/Tyke/Novice Leagues). I’ve now gone through Atom League players as well and I’ve got 50 more new players to add; currently going through PeeWee League players…..and I’ve been editing height/weight as I go! (so as of right now all Mite/Tyke/Novice/Atom League players have had their height/weight edited)



Back on June 30th I came up with 7 things I was working on (noted above); since then I’ve added/completed a couple more tasks...
8. Delete all modern players Major Junior (WHL/OHL/QMJHL); delete all modern players in Russian/European Elite and Junior Leagues - DONE!
9. Delete all modern Free Agent Staff - DONE! And I’ve started to add historical Minor Pro/Major Junior Staff!



Regards

[Primis]

After two straight days and many hours, I’ve “fixed” 30 of the 31 teams…but for reasons I don’t understand the Vancouver Giants cannot be moved out of the "WHL Moved League" without causing a crash! I hate crashes!

I’ve tried multiple times/ways without success…I can change the League name, but I can’t move the Vancouver Giants out (and if create a defunct Vancouver Giants and overwrite the Vancouver Giants in the League the game still crashes at start-up)…

Try moving the team to "A Minor League" that doesn't ever populate with players. Then they're present, but will be all the fake, greyed-out players.

[nino33]

Try moving the team to "A Minor League" that doesn't ever populate with players. Then they're present, but will be all the fake, greyed-out players.

That worked! Thanks!

[nino33]

Back on June 30th I came up with 7 things I was working on (noted above); since then I’ve added/completed a couple more tasks...
8. Delete all modern players Major Junior (WHL/OHL/QMJHL); delete all modern players in Russian/European Elite and Junior Leagues - DONE!
9. Delete all modern Free Agent Staff - DONE! And I’ve started to add historical Minor Pro/Major Junior Staff!

There's actually a couple more tasks on the current list...
10. Add historical Major Junior players
11. Add historical European/Russian teams names/players

As it seems to be the task I'm most interested in doing right now, I'm currently building a staff_new file so I can use the EHM Updater to add all of the available historical Major Junior players...and I've got another wall chart going for the historical Major Junior Staff!


Back to work!

[nino33]

Just posting to say I've replaced a modern Major Junior team with a historical Major Junior team...somehow I missed adding the historical Trois Rivieres Draveurs to the QMJHL, so they have been added and the Saint John Sea Dogs have been removed and made defunct (I picked Saint John as they were the "most modern" team)

[XenHL]

Can anyone tell me which Russian Elite League team names (default db) would go with the IRL Russian Elite League teams back in 1974-75?
Below in blue font are the ten historical team names (according to hockeydb) for the Russian Elite League in 1974-75, and in black font are the names I have in EHM….I’ve connected the four teams I think I know…

Thanks Much!


CSKA Moscow Moscow C
Krylja Sovetov Moscow K
Moscow Spartak
Voskresensk Khimik
Dynamo Riga
Moscow Dynamo Moscow D
Chelyabinsk Traktor
Gorky Torpedo
Leningrad SKA Saint-Petersburg
Saratov Kristall

Remaining teams in EHM – Chekhov, Chelyabinsk T, Cherepovets, Kazan, Khabarovsk, Magnitogorsk, Mytischi, Nizhnekamsk, Novokuznetsk, Novosibirsk, Omsk, Togliatti, Tver, Ufa and Yaroslav

So, a few are easy to deal with:

EHM - RW 1974
Mytischi = Khimik Voskresensk
Chelyabinsk T = Traktor Chelyabinsk
Magnitogorsk = Metallurg Magnitogorsk
Nizhnekamsk = Neftekhimik Nizhnekamsk
Novokuznetsk = Metallurg Novokuznetsk
Novosibirsk = Sibir Novosibirsk
Cherepovets = Metallurg Cherepovets
Kazan = Uritskogo Kazan (head coach 74-75 = Evgeny Yegorov
Khabarovsk = SKA Khabarovsk
Omsk = Shinnik Omsk
Tver = THK Tver (blue & white)
Ufa = Salavat Yulayev Ufa
Yaroslav = Torpedo Yaroslavl (please note the final L - YaroslavL, not Yaroslav !!)

I'm fairly sure these are in the DB already, though in a lower division:
Moscow S = Spartak Moscow
Nizhny Novgorod = Torpedo Gorky
Saratov = Kristall Saratov

Dinamo Riga may be in the DB in either the Latvian league or Russian 1st division (as either Dynamo or Riga 2000). (Dynamo Riga's colours were blue-white-red).

For the remaining two EHM Elite League teams, Chekhov = did not exist, and Togliatti = established 1976 as Torpedo Togliatti.

So for the most part you just have some renaming to do, and a few swaps. I would suggest swap Chekhov for Dynamo Riga, Tver for Spartak Moscow, Ufa for Torpedo Gorky and Khabarovsk for Kristall Saratov.

And one request? Please please PLEASE put the Long Name in proper order - club name first, city name second!! (e.g. Dynamo Moscow, Kristall Saratov etc).

[nino33]

Thanks XenHL!


The reality is I’m really “running out of gas” and it’s unlikely I’ll be looking at Europe/Russia any further prior to a public release…I am for sure going to publicly release the 1974 database “as is” at the end of this month! After release I intend on taking a break from actively editing the 1974 database for a while.


Between now and release there’s three things I’m focusing on
- Adding additional historical Major Junior players (QMJHL done, currently working on OHL)
- Additional editing to historical AHL/CHL players (a task I’ve already started)
- Editing of NHL Staff Attributes

It will be a challenge to get the above done, let alone any more…I’ve been working on this project for so long, I need a break from it; I’ve found it really hard to get on a roll this summer, I think I need something new/fresh to better motivate me…


To all who are interested…the 1974 database will be released in a few weeks!



Regards

[XenHL]

Not a worry, dude.

You've done a Herculean, at times even Sysiphusian, task!

Hopefully, relaxing and just playing for a while will unwind and refresh you!

[nino33]

at times even Sysiphusian

I had to look the reference up...what an appropriate/applicable reference! HaHa

[nino33]

In about a week I’m going to release test version 0.3 (and then at the end of the month there’ll be a public release)…..I’ve already got a couple testers lined up, so I don’t really “need” any more, but if you’ve tested the database before and would like to again in about a week send me a PM

[dave1927p]

looking forward to the release! I need a change with the regular EHM and this looks fun. I'd volunteer but i simply don't have the time i once did...that is with life i guess. Man, i feel old sometimes.... (i hide my secret love of stat based hockey from my girlfriend, that's why she can never move in with me i'm still immature in some ways )

[nino33]

AUGUST 5, 2012
There’s three things I’m focusing on
- Adding additional historical Major Junior players (QMJHL done, currently working on OHL)
- Additional editing to historical AHL/CHL players (a task I’ve already started)
- Editing of NHL Staff Attributes

It will be a challenge to get the above done, let alone any more…

I'm very pleased to say that the last week has been very productive!

I haven't worked on Major Junior players lately (still on the OHL), but I have been working on the further editing of AHL/CHL players (important as it'll improve the quality of the minor pro talent pool and it'll help fully filling out NHL rosters) beyond the 23 man NHL roster)...
AND I've been working LOTS this past week on the editing of NHL Staff!

For all Staff edited so far, CA/PA were reviewed and I ensured Reputation was correct, plus…

20 Chairmen + 3 Presidents Done
Edited Adaptability, Ambition, Determination and Loyalty
Edited Business, Interference, Patience, and Resources

22 GM + 19 AGMs Done
Edited Adaptability, Ambition, Determination and Loyalty
Edited Discipline, Judgement, Judging Potential, Man Handling, and Motivating
Edited Interference and Patience

8 GM/Head Coaches + 22 Head Coaches Done
Edited Adaptability, Ambition, Determination and Loyalty
Edited Discipline, Judgement, Judging Potential, Man Handling, and Motivating
Edited Interference and Patience
Edited Coaching Forwards/Defense/ NMs
Edited Coaching Technique, Discipline, Judgement, Judging Potential, Man Handling, Motivating and Youngsters
Edited Attacking, Directness, Free Roles, Linematching, Penalty Kill, Powerplay, and Tactics and Physical

68 Assistant Coaches Currently in Progress
Edited Adaptability, Ambition, Determination and Loyalty
Edited Discipline, Judgement, Judging Potential, Man Handling, and Motivating
Edited Interference and Patience
Edited Coaching Forwards/Defense/ NMs
Edited Coaching Technique, Discipline, Judgement, Judging Potential, Man Handling, Motivating and Youngsters
Not sure yet if I'll be Editing Assistant Coach Attacking, Directness, Free Roles, Linematching, Penalty Kill, Powerplay, and Tactics and Physical

137 Scouts Done
Edited Adaptability, Determination and Loyalty
Edited Judgement and Judging Potential

AND I’ve still got 30 Player/Coaches to edit, as well as 54 Trainers.


For the Attribute editing noted I used dice rolls to provide variability within different chosen ranges.
For any Attributes not noted above I used the “0” variable.

I'm really excited about the editing of Head Coach Attributes for Attacking, Directness, Free Roles, Linematching, Penalty Kill, Powerplay, and Tactics and Physical...this editing should actually affect gameplay "play style" (i.e. hopefully better representing defensive/checking clubs like the Bruins and offensive clubs like the Sabres, as well as better representing the defensive/physical hockey of the era in general).


I'm very happy with the recent progress!

[archibalduk]

Jeepers! And you still found time in amongst that to change your avatar!

I've been working on a spreadsheet of the top three British leagues for the Manimal update over the past two months. My spreadsheet "only" consists of approx 800 players, but it has been (and still is) a real slog to get it done. It has really hammered home the huge scale of Nino's work. My spreadsheet is a tiny dot in comparison to Nino's research and I couldn't possibly imagine coping with much more than my small spreadsheet!

[batdad]

Nino is almost as big a god as Archi. I think we should call him Mr Bald Duck Jr.

[archibalduk]

Nino is almost as big a god as Archi. I think we should call him Mr Bald Duck Jr.

Ha I think I'd rather be the junior! I'm still (just) under 30 - I don't want to be referred to as a senior quite yet!

[nino33]

I'm most definetly the "senior" HaHa
I knew Arch was much younger than I when he thought Gordie Howe's age was some kinda typo!

[archibalduk]

I knew Arch was much younger than I when he thought Gordie Howe's age was some kinda typo!

Haha that's so true!!

[nino33]

AUGUST 5, 2012
There’s three things I’m focusing on
- Adding additional historical Major Junior players (QMJHL done, currently working on OHL)
- Additional editing to historical AHL/CHL players (a task I’ve already started)
- Editing of NHL Staff Attributes

AUGUST 14. 2012
I haven't worked on Major Junior players lately (still on the OHL),

Yesterday/today I imported all the newly created historical QMJHL players, as well as three teams worth of historical OHL players (there used to be 42 historical QMJHL players, now there's 120 - there used to be 85 historical OHL players, now there's 130 and still growing!).....and then I added Draft information and NHL Rights so that "those that should be" (recent draftees) are unsigned prospects for their NHL team!

I thought it'd be cool if teams had not only roster players, but signed minor league players and signed major junior players AND unsigned prospects too!

For Major Junior, to add to the historical players I already had, I used the hockey db website for the QMJHL, and for both the OHL and WHL I'm using the rosters from actual 1974-75 OHL/WHL Media Guides


RE EDITING OF NHL STAFF - Woo Hoo! Everything's done except the Trainers (Physio)


Test release next weekend...

[nino33]

The 1974db test version 3 is available for testing IF you want to test it and have time over the next week AND you're willing to post feedback in the Testing Results/Feedback thread...if so, send me a TBL PM with your email address

I’ve just joined the NBHL! I’m already in the DMA as the Habs GM…today an opening in the NBHL was posted about on TBL, I checked into it and two hours later I’m the new Coyotes GM in the NBHL! I’m going to spend the next few days getting to know my new team/league, and so since I knew I wouldn’t be editing for a bit I thought I may as well make the database available for testing now…plus, I really am “running out of gas” and I’m not sure how much more I’ll get done; I suspect I will get back to focusing on editing the 1974 database in 4-5 days (with a full public release approx Sept 5).

STILL WORKING ON
- I’ve got additional OHL/WHL players to create
- I’ve got AHL/CHL staff to create
- I’ve got Major Junior staff to create
- I’ve got 495 AHL players to go through, and I’ve got 98 done
- I’ve also got 289 CHL players to go through

At this point (subject to change!) my focus is on the OHL/WHL player creation…not sure how many more staff will get created, or how many more minor pros players will get further editing…I might take a quick look at NHL Player Attributes too


Regards

P.S. The new avatar with the cool mask is flakey goalie from the 1970s Gilles Gratton

[nino33]

FYI

All continues to go with my plan to change from “100% editing of EHM Nino” to “mostly playing EHM Nino” (at least for awhile)…my DMA and NBHL teams are coming together, and so I’m again looking at tweaking the 1974 database in these final days before its release

I’m now looking at something I’ve purposely avoided most of these last two years – NHL player Attributes. I’ve avoided them because I worried I’d get bogged down on the (for me) “fun stuff” – to me getting the historical players and staff and teams into the database was more important to get done first, and I knew it would take a long time to get these basics done (I thought 9-12 months when I started…didn't think two years I must admit! HaHa)

I’m glad I waited HaHa because Archi’s EHM Updater makes this task MUCH easier!
Everything can be edited in excel, so I’m using excel’s sort functionality on each Attribute and making the easy/obvious changes I notice

Regards

P.S. New avatar is Islander great Billy Smith, about 1976-77 I think...

[nino33]

I received some great feedback this week that noted that in the 1974 db “if a player was good, they tended to have great technical and mental attributes. If a player wasn't that great, the were at the opposite end of the spectrum“ (and it was noted there might be a few to many 17s and 18s)

This has been very helpful feedback!
It makes total sense as start-up NHL players were “created” (by Pens66 or myself) by overwriting an already existing player, and while CA/PA and OFF/DEF were looked at when doing so (and when possible a “similar style” player would be overwritten), I did NOT look at all 51 Attributes for each individual player! Initial tests caught examples of this, such as Bobby Orr’s poor skating, or the unrealistic offense of Ed Van Impe…so some editing was done in March and some in June

NOW we have the EHM Updater! Again, thank you so much Arch!
I was able yesterday to use excel to quickly sort the 1974 db data, and it was almost comical to see the player names who had 17 or 18 in an Attribute…imagine in the current hockey world if players like Taylor Pyatt and Sheldon Sourayhad the same agility as Ovechkin and Crosby!!!

So I’m just going through selected Attributes and looking at those whose rating is 15 and above and editing accordingly - does anyone have any advice on which handful of Attributes I should focus on in each of the three categories (Mental, Physical, Technical)?



Today I took a look at some of the 1974 database NHL player Attributes in comparison to the same Attribute in Manimal 4.2 and UUDB 5.0 - looking at CA , Consistency (a “hidden” Attribute IIRC) and Agility for players who are playing for their NHL club at start-up…

[table][tr][th][/th][th]Manimal 4.2[/th][th]1974 0.3[/th][th]UUDB 5.0[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]# of players[/td][td]753[/td][td]635[/td][td]717[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]avg CA[/td][td]135.3[/td][td]126.7[/td][td]131.8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CA 150+[/td][td]25.5%[/td][td]11.6%[/td][td]18.2%[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CA 120-149[/td][td]56.3%[/td][td]44.7%[/td][td]56.3%[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CA below 100[/td][td]3.1%[/td][td]0.1%[/td][td]1.2%[/td][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][th]CONSISTENCY[/th][th]Manimal 4.2[/th][th]1974 0.3[/th][th]UUDB 5.0[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]average[/td][td]12.5[/td][td]12.5[/td][td]12.8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]players with "0"[/td][td]9[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]15-20[/td][td]20.7%[/td][td]16.2% (currently editing)[/td][td]27.4%[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]below 10[/td][td]24.8%[/td][td]2.2%[/td][td]12.1%[/td][/tr][/table]

[table][tr][th]AGILITY[/th][th]Manimal 4.2[/th][th]1974 0.3[/th][th]UUDB 5.0[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]average[/td][td]13.3[/td][td]12.1[/td][td]13.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]players with "0"[/td][td]6[/td][td]78 (currently editing)[/td][td]3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]15-20[/td][td]32.5%[/td][td]10.7% (currently editing)[/td][td]35.1%[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]below 10[/td][td]7.0%[/td][td]10.7% (currently editing)[/td][td]5.1%[/td][/tr][/table]

I posted this just because I thought it was interesting…it’s not really to try and “compare” in the sense of trying to make the 1974 db "the same"…IMO in the 1970s (and 1980s) there was a bigger talent gap between the stars and the average player, and in the mid 1970s there were a lot of very young promising stars who blossomed in the late 1970s / early 1980s, and I think the Drafts will help the overall talent level improve in the first few years, which I think is very realistic!

As mentioned above, at this point I’m just going through selected Attributes, and looking at those whose rating is 15 and above, and editing the obvious!

So the feedback I received of the gap between talented and not was very helpful, as it helped me clarify that
#1 overall it’s supposed to be like this; it’s representative of the era
#2 there are players whose Attribute is 15-20 who definitely need some lowering!



Back to work!