The Official Olympics Hockey Thread

[philou21]

LOL

[Primis]

]I'm sorry that you can only understand it in most basic terms that don't actually apply to what I'm saying.

Oh an attempt to troll again.

You've always been delusional since you started to post regurlaly here. You don't want to just come back like you were before? Like, invisible? Maybe posting 1 or 2 times per month? The fact that most people thinks different of you never rang a bell in your head? It's ok to have opinions and share it with others, the forum is there for that but at some point when almost EVERYONE is telling you something different and doesn't actually understands you, it's time to question yourself I think.

I don't care if anyone feels differently or not. It's not my fault that you don't grasp that. I don't post here to see if my opinion mesh will with yours. If my opinions meshed with everyone else's there'd be no point in posting because my opinion would have already been stated by someone else.

If my opinions differing from yours bothers you so much that's an issue with you, not me.



Tomas Kopecky of Slovakia is now out for the rest of the tourney with a head injury.


I don't think the problem is big ice vs small ice. I think the problem is a fundamental one the entire sport has struggled with now for decades. Ultimately any time a team can be coached in a "system", there's a chance that some Jacques Lemaire out there is going to turn said system into a defense abomination because there's no good way to stop them from doing it, and you don't get points for playing pretty hockey.

You could add a basketball-ish sort of clock I guess to force teams to exit their own zone within x-seconds upon gaining possession, but that only addresses such a narrow, specific thing.

You could outlaw dump & chase somehow I guess, but I don't know that it would have the intended effect of forcing players to try to gain the zone themselves. Instead defenses would try to take advantage and just wall off the blue line realizing the puck can't be flipped behind them.

You could institute a (again basketball-inspired) "3 seconds" rule of some sort maybe? But I don't know where and how.

I think maybe ultimately instead of trying to increase scoring, maybe more weight needs to be added to Goals For somehow. Instead of trying to find ways to organically increase scoring, make teams *want* or *need* to score more. Then if you want to play lock-down, slow-down defense for the "W" you can... but you maybe won't be rewarded so much for it.


EDIT: I should add, I think this maybe works maybe in international play (IIHF, Olympic). I'm not so sure it works in club/team play.

[jesterx7769]

Getting rid of the point for going to OT may help some to increase scoring and try to get people to win. That way they don't get the "victory" of taking a team to OT.

Here is the bracket now for those who haven't seen it http://i.imgur.com/eVVP9H6.png

[Primis]

Getting rid of the point for going to OT may help some to increase scoring and try to get people to win. That way they don't get the "victory" of taking a team to OT.

Here is the bracket now for those who haven't seen it http://i.imgur.com/eVVP9H6.png

My thought is just anything where you indirectly try to encourage scoring tends to instead push coaches to play even more defensively because it's easier to do. That seems to be what evidence shows anyhow.


That bracket is unfortunate in a small way. I wish teams could be somehow guaranteed not to play the same team they already played in pool play.

[batdad]

Seriously the solution is artistic impression. THen the Russian judges will have some say.

you should not have to encourage scoring, it is the object of the game. The problem is too many coaches allowed to be involved. Players want to play offensively, even the scrubs want to score. Coaches kill all creativity. Coaches need to be cut off.

You can adjust points all you want, you will have coaches play for 2-1 OT wins no matter what. Look at soccer. Still do it in the MLS where goals for are rewarded.

Kill coaches, allow at the most 1 on the bench and 2 at practice. Period. That will help a ton.

Oh and put rules back in the game that actually make sense. You see so many stretch and tip in now...because of no red line. That destroys creativity. The goalie trapezoid, destroys goalies moving the puck and getting caught out of net. The coaches should not be allowed to teach systems of defense. BAN ZONE DEFENSE. Encourage creativity, reward it.

Cough PK Subban

[philou21]

]I'm sorry that you can only understand it in most basic terms that don't actually apply to what I'm saying.

Oh an attempt to troll again.

You've always been delusional since you started to post regurlaly here. You don't want to just come back like you were before? Like, invisible? Maybe posting 1 or 2 times per month? The fact that most people thinks different of you never rang a bell in your head? It's ok to have opinions and share it with others, the forum is there for that but at some point when almost EVERYONE is telling you something different and doesn't actually understands you, it's time to question yourself I think.

I don't care if anyone feels differently or not. It's not my fault that you don't grasp that. I don't post here to see if my opinion mesh will with yours. If my opinions meshed with everyone else's there'd be no point in posting because my opinion would have already been stated by someone else.

If my opinions differing from yours bothers you so much that's an issue with you, not me.

It's sad to see you're so narrow minded that you can't even understand that. Your opinions don't bother me because they never makes sense anyway. I'll stop polluting the thread now, you're not worth it.



Back on topic, what you said batdad is kinda true. I'm not sure though about the goalie "triangle" or "trapeze" like you call it. I think it was too easy for goalies to dump the puck away and also kill a part of creativity for the enemy team by just going back in the neutral zone each time because of that. But honestly, I don't even remember what was their reasons to put that rule back when the lock-out happened.

[ForNever]

The playing times for Tuesday and Wednesday have arrived: http://www.sochi2014.com/en/ice-hockey-playoff-men

I guess the North American games are carefully settled to maximize the NA viewer count since they're the last games. Also they're so late local time that some of Russians have already gone to sleep (or at least that's what the organizers think) so that may be why Russia's (possible) games are during the day. Luckily Wednesday is the only day I get off from senior high earlier so I can just about get into the start of the game.

[Primis]

you should not have to encourage scoring, it is the object of the game. The problem is too many coaches allowed to be involved. Players want to play offensively, even the scrubs want to score. Coaches kill all creativity. Coaches need to be cut off.

You can adjust points all you want, you will have coaches play for 2-1 OT wins no matter what. Look at soccer. Still do it in the MLS where goals for are rewarded.

I've thought about soccer and there are similarities but truthfully they aren't real analogs. Soccer has even more things standing in the way of scoring more, honestly. Soccer really is "too big" (too many players, too huge a surface) to do much about it IMHO.

In hockey... maybe you set a specific goal differential where a 2pt win suddenly become a 3pt win? Maybe win by 3 goals, and you get the extra point? Give a team incentive, if they're up by 2 goals, to keep pushing? Everyone always says a 2-goal lead in hockey is the worst anyways, but coaches don't agree. Maybe while bringing that 3rd point in you then eliminate the Loser Point as well? And you're not really encouraging running up the score still. But if a team can win 15 games by 3 or more, should they be rewarded for it over a team than only won 4 game by 3 or more? I dunno, maybe. Especially in international competition, where running up the score should almost be encouraged and rewarded given what it is.

You're right though, it's over-coaching that's strangling things. I don't see eliminating coaches changing that though, not at this point. Honestly, one single coach is enough to implement and run a slow, defensive system now. Teams in minor pro level, for instance, that have only one single coach who often also acts as GM implement that sort of stuff and run it. Maybe it's just where the sport is doomed to end up though, the endgame you can't avoid. I've often wondered if every sport doesn't eventually face that sort of endgame.


There's an interesting push in NCAA football right now that's related IMHO. Some coaches are trying to get the NCAA to basically make hurry-up offense illegal. The problem is, too many coaches have realized that running an offense like Oregon's that hurries constantly between plays to try to wear out a defense is a good way to level the playing field, so coaches at programs like Alabama who succeed while NOT doing that want it eliminated. They want LOWER scores.

It's almost the exact opposite of what we're discussing, and yet it's the same because it's coaching exploiting every "loophole" (for lack of a better term) they can find, much to the chagrin of some others. The only difference is fans like the higher-scoring hurry-up in football, and hate lower scoring in hockey.

So it's not just hockey that is struggling with over-coaching I guess. It's the nature of coaching now and sports now.

[batdad]

The analog is coaching. That is the only problem in sport. Over coaching. Eventually, once the brass has tried absolutely anything and everything and the game is on its deathbed they will then restrict coaching.

Again. they do that extra point thing in MLS (Major League Soccer) and it does not work. The coaches do not care, they are more concerned about giving up the 2nd goal in a 2-1 game instead of going hard to make it 3-1. More worried coaching. It will not work in hockey either. Still will worry more about 3-1 becoming 3-2 and defending. Coaching is the only way.

LOL at Nebraska idiots. Typical coaches. The Oregon guy has it right. Offense sells tickets. And especially in a game like football a hurry up offense will....because darn the breaks are too bloody long and boring. The coaches and people trying to limit the offense .....that is EXACTLY the same as the NHL. I totally agree with Oregon.. That is not EXPLOITING loopholes...that is doing what you bloody should. Do you think that when football first was invented that the inventor thought it would take 3 hours between every bloody play. No. Do the things that make the game exciting.... an actual good coach who gets it in Oregon. Yay.

Now...NHL listen up....kill the rubbish defense, kill the coaches, kill collapse defenses...stop allowing 6 goalies on the ice at the same time.

[jesterx7769]

CBC did a quick interview where he talked about the defensive mindset and showed some good clips of him enterting the zone with a line of 3/4 "defenseman" waiting

[Kopi]

whoohooo we just kick ass Austrians with 4:0 and we are in 1/8 finals! Did ever happen that national team from B division came amont top 8?

Go Slovenia proud of you guys!
Our goalie Kristan is on fire...got a goal 17 sec before the end against Slovakia and 0 against Austria!

[Primis]

LOL at Nebraska idiots. Typical coaches. The Oregon guy has it right. Offense sells tickets. And especially in a game like football a hurry up offense will....because darn the breaks are too bloody long and boring. The coaches and people trying to limit the offense .....that is EXACTLY the same as the NHL. I totally agree with Oregon.. That is not EXPLOITING loopholes...that is doing what you bloody should. Do you think that when football first was invented that the inventor thought it would take 3 hours between every bloody play. No. Do the things that make the game exciting.... an actual good coach who gets it in Oregon. Yay.

For the record, that's not me saying the hurry-up needs to be banned. It's the old-school, plodding (primarily SEC) coaches like Nick Saban. I think things like the Spread Option and the Hurry Up are what make college football so better than pro (where creativity is frowned upon even moreso). Hopefully the NCAA realizes that and kills the idea.

One other possibility for the NHL would be revisiting Bob Gainey's suggestion about outlawing shot blocking. He was literally laughed at when he first suggested it. Years later now, it seems a pretty solid idea actually.


I'm glad for Slovenia. That sort of stuff is good for the sport, and maybe can get some more registered players and a few more rinks into the country. Now if we could just get the Czech Republic's trainwreck of a program to actually start churning out young talent again instead of just naming Petr Nedved again in 4 years (because you know they will)....

[batdad]

Have I mentioned how freaking awesome Hiller's mask is.

[philou21]

Upset of the tournament so far! Go Latvia!!

[archibalduk]

I've desperately been trying to follow the tournament but the BBC are doing their best to spoil things. They put the games in the schedule, but don't show the games on time. So I'm getting to see, at best, half games. So frustrating!

[batdad]

Maple Leaf pub in London????

[CJ]

I Finland loses today, I might get depression and not come online for a month. Just sayin'!

[nino33]

I've desperately been trying to follow the tournament but the BBC are doing their best to spoil things. They put the games in the schedule, but don't show the games on time. So I'm getting to see, at best, half games. So frustrating!

As we all know, I'm old and technology challenges me HaHa so maybe this isn't helpful, but on the CBC website (CBC is essentially Canada's version of BBC) EVERYTHING is available to watch online. You can watch every/any event live, or watch a complete replay at a later time http://olympics.cbc.ca/

I've used the website a bunch, and as a result I've watched at least some of every hockey game...but maybe the "ca" at the end of the website address mean it's only available in Canada?



My hernia surgery recovery has meant I've been able to watch more live despite the fact Sochi time is 11 hours ahead of Edmonton...and a couple weeks ago my daughter moved, and she's temporarily storing her 42 inch TV in my living room!

I had a nap this evening (as the game starts at 1 AM here in Edmonton), so I'll watch some/all of the first game and then a bit of sleep and up at 5:30 AM to watch Finland/Russia...then at 10 AM Canada/Latvia and USA/Czech Republic (with multiple computers/TVs I'll have both games on at the same time)...

30 minutes until Sweden/Slovenia! Woo Hoo!


Go Canada!

[CJ]

Lol, at the time the games are there.
That's very similar to how the games were here in Finland 2010 Vancouver. Sleep all day, watch hockey all night.

http://olympics.cbc.ca/

Doesn't work for me. Due to the country.

[philou21]

I just woke up and Finland leads 3-1 against Russia before the third! Surprise! Hope it stays that way. God Putin will kill himself and the whole team if that happens.

[philou21]

Final: Finland 3 Russia 1! Wow.

[Primis]

Consider the "highlight the KHL" effort failed. Russia's top 2 TOI leaders were Kovalchuk and Radulov. Whoops. Play Ovie, Geno, an Datsyuk more next time maybe?

[CJ]

Celebration time!

Finland vs. Sweden on friday.

[jesterx7769]

Wow big surprise. I liked Finland as an "underdog" (weren't they ranked 5th?) coming but losing 4 top centers I thought they had no chance. Rask apparently played really well. Super shocked they played Varlamov instead of Bobrovsky who is the clear more consistent goaltender. As mentioned, why the heck did they play Radulov so much?

If only Finland had those healthy centers.

[XenHL]

Okay I am thoroughly delighted that Russia lost and won't win any colour of medal on home ice!

But I need to say something in their defence.

The idiot North American hockey media is going to have a field day with saying it's because they had too many KHL players etc etc... except that's rubbish. It's like, the KHL players were the only ones actually playing and trying, whereas the vaunted NHL stars - with the exception of Datsyuk ( <3 ) - didn't give a darn. IMO Russia lost not because they had too many KHL players but because they had too many NHL stars who couldn't mesh and didn't care.

There is a big problem in the Russian NT and in Russian hockey but that problem is not the KHL.