Feedback on the Trade AI

[NessFreaK]

I've found there doesn't seem to be any room for negotiations. If I offer a trade the AI doesn't like, it's rejected. If I offer something they feel they can approve upon, it's what they want or nothing. For example:

ME:
3rd overall and 48 overall for 6th overall, 35th overall and First next year

Them:
Connor McDavid, 3rd overall and 48 overall for 6th overall, 35th overall and First next year

Me: 3rd overall and 48 overall, 3rd round for 6th overall, 35th overall and First next year

Them:
Connor McDavid, 3rd overall and 48 overall, 3rd round for 6th overall, 35th overall and First next year

Me: 3rd overall, 48 overall, 3rd round, and first 2017 for 6th, 35th and a first next year.

Them:
Connor McDavid, 3rd overall, 48 overall, 3rd round, and first 2017 for 6th, 35th and a first next year.

Basically, they took what ever extra i was offering to remove McDavid from the transaction, and simply added McDavid. I began to remove the future firsts from both sides and it continued to be the same thing. In the end, in order to move up in the second round, I had to settle with dropping in the first alone. It was still a pretty fair deal and it worked out well as I got hanifin at 6th, as well as my guy in the second round, but the time spent "Negotiating" was wasted because there was none. Realistically, I figured jumping to 3rd overall would be huge for them, as it's a difference between a surefire first liner (top 2 dman) and a potential second line player.

The 48th and 35th are functionally interchangable, and the 3rd is slightly better than the 6th. Asking a second 1st rounder is very uneven, you are basically asking for two high first round picks for one. Substitute the extra first for a 3rd-5th and you might be in buisness. Would have been interesting to try locking McDavid out of the trade and see what they offered.

Particularly in EHM there are a lot of busts in the draft (for 3 or 4 seasons anyway, until regens start, then the picks are worth a ton), so I wouldn't even consider a 3rd overall to be a sure first 1st liner. Not until 2018-2022.

[RomaGoth]

I'm finding that trade values don't seem to be affected by a player's stats during the season. For example, before the season started I offered Joffrey Lupul. Several teams offered a 3rd round pick with a low-end prospect, and the Red Wings offered Ryan Sproul (decent prospect) and Alexey Marchenko (low-end prospect). I figured I could pump up Lupul's value by putting him on the 1st line with Kessel, and he now has 17 goals and 18 assists in 34 games. I tried offering him up for trade, and... several teams offered a 3rd round pick with a low-end prospect, and the Red Wings offered Sproul and Marchenko. I feel like teams would be willing to offer a bit more than that for a guy who's on pace for 38 goals.

I should also add that I traded Eric Brewer for a 3rd round pick with a low-end prospect before the season started, and I traded Zach Sill for a second round pick. Those guys were both dead weight, so I'm not sure how Lupul's value was so low to begin with, and has stayed so low after such a good start to the season.

Actually, both Sproul and Marchenko are pretty good NHL prospects. Marchenko has spent some time with the Wings and played really well, probably is a future top-4 defenseman. Sproul is developing slower but has more upside and has a wicked slapshot (google sproul slapshot mitch callahan).

Lupul was always overvalued in EHM 2007 and appears to be in this new version as well. He is a 3rd or low 2nd line player at best and when he doesn't play with another great forward (i.e., Kessel) his numbers are pedestrian at best. I would trade him for either Marchenko or Sproul in a second. He is probably worth more than just a 3rd round pick though.

I agree with your assessment of Lupul in real life, and I'll trust your assessment of Marchenko (I can't claim much knowledge of Detroit's prospects), but I'm not sure that's the case in the game. Marchenko currently has 16 points in 45 games in the AHL at the age of 23, which doesn't suggest a huge amount of NHL upside. And again, Lupul is having a very good season. I guess his cap hit and injury history limit his value a bit (I'm not sure how much injury history is taken into account in the game), but there's no way he's worth less than Zach Sill.

Plus, there's the issue of his value not really changing despite the numbers he's putting up this year. Seems a bit odd.

Marchenko is more of a defensive d-man with a possible offensive side opening up down the road, and I wouldn't put too much stock into how many points a player puts up in the minors, especially d-men. Marchenko has shown himself to be very capable at driving possession and making smart decisions with the puck at the NHL level. I looked at Lupuls career numbers and he has some a couple of really good years but he has been injury prone and rather inconsistent everywhere he has played. Probably a 2nd line player in EHM. It is very odd how the AI values different players though.

[listro55]

I've found there doesn't seem to be any room for negotiations. If I offer a trade the AI doesn't like, it's rejected. If I offer something they feel they can approve upon, it's what they want or nothing.

The 48th and 35th are functionally interchangable, and the 3rd is slightly better than the 6th. Asking a second 1st rounder is very uneven, you are basically asking for two high first round picks for one. Substitute the extra first for a 3rd-5th and you might be in buisness. Would have been interesting to try locking McDavid out of the trade and see what they offered.

Particularly in EHM there are a lot of busts in the draft (for 3 or 4 seasons anyway, until regens start, then the picks are worth a ton), so I wouldn't even consider a 3rd overall to be a sure first 1st liner. Not until 2018-2022.

My best scout shows alot of 5 star prospects in the first draft. Particularly players like Hanifin who was ranked 3rd, that scouts him as 1-2 Stay-at-home. And even with the second being 'interchangable' you mention that my asking price was high, but no mention that the negotiation was also in turn, ridiculous? Let's put it into perspective.

Giving up
First overall pick 2015 (McDavid), 3rd overall pick, 2nd round pick

Getting in Return
6th overall pick, 2nd round pick, 1st round pick.

This was what they wanted and there was no negotiation. Regardless of my initial offer being "Too much" what exactly determines this response being any sort of reasonable, and despite it being considered "negotiating", it's really just a take it or leave it reply.

[untjosh]

I got the Sharks 1st round pick for Horcoff.

Komrade is a bro.

[listro55]

Another one:

Offering 2nd and 4th round pick for one second round pick. Rejection.

Offering 2nd, and 3rd rounders for one second round pick. Returned negotiation... first round prospect and 3rd round prospect, plus second and 3rd round picks, for the second round and a 4th.

Offered 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders for one second round pick.... negotiation came back the same.

offered 2 second rounders for 1 second rounder. Acceptable.

Decided I'd see about the prospects they wanted... both scouted as potential 3rd liners. Accepted the deal and was warned by board about bad trades, and fans upset.


Ducks interested in Dion Phaneuf and G Matt Hackett. Both have 4* interest... both are considered NHL calibre players. Offered both, plus a second and a 4th for just Anaheims First rounder.... Rejected. Not enough to suit their needs. It's not money or roster spots or anything.... it's because they aren't ripping you off. I don't think AI understands what fair is.

trade Rejected: 2nd,3rd,4th in 2016, and 2nd, 3rd, 4th in 2017 for 2016 second round pick (perhaps the team in confused because team needs are "goalie, defense and right wing prospects" but wanting to add veteran presence.

[SirMichaelJordan]

what were the Duck's record and what date was the trade?

[SimplyMonkey]

The only trades I can make are when I offer to all. I've never been able to get a trade to work by proposing it myself.

[listro55]

what were the Duck's record and what date was the trade?

Narrowly missed playoffs, Draft day. I believe they were low teens pick.

[listro55]

The only trades I can make are when I offer to all. I've never been able to get a trade to work by proposing it myself.

Starting to notice that. It's impossible to convince another GM to even come down in asking price, let alone negotiate an actual fair trade.

Just saw LA placed Mike Richards on the trade block. Inquired; asking for a first second and 3rd, plus a top prospect. I think they even asked for my arm (either one) and my Assistant GM's leg... that had to be left, no negotiating to switch to the right. May or may not have asked for my first born as well.

The Kicker? LA had 1* interest in Richards, and asked for that... but I couldn't give Kessel to a playoff team looking for a First line RW for a (singular) first rounder, or even ONE prospect.

[SirMichaelJordan]

what were the Duck's record and what date was the trade?

Narrowly missed playoffs, Draft day. I believe they were low teens pick.

were they asking for vets in return? a non playoff team giving up a 1st round pick and taking on that big contract doesn't really make any sense to be honest.

I am noticing that you have to really cater to what the team needs are. If they are asking for prospects then they most likely won't take your vets or low picks in return without actually giving them what they want.

[listro55]

what were the Duck's record and what date was the trade?

Narrowly missed playoffs, Draft day. I believe they were low teens pick.

were they asking for vets in return? a non playoff team giving up a 1st round pick and taking on that big contract doesn't really make any sense to be honest.

I am noticing that you have to really cater to what the team needs are. If they are asking for prospects then they most likely won't take your vets or low picks in return without actually giving them what they want.

But a non-playoff team looking for a top 2 and top 4 defenseman does. Having a strong core, and good young goaltending but not having that key on defense. It makes a lot of sense that Anaheim would want him.. to me anyhow. Every single team however is looking for a top 2 dman. Even the ones that have Top 2 dmen.... like chicago.

[Tasku]

I'm finding that trade values don't seem to be affected by a player's stats during the season. For example, before the season started I offered Joffrey Lupul. Several teams offered a 3rd round pick with a low-end prospect, and the Red Wings offered Ryan Sproul (decent prospect) and Alexey Marchenko (low-end prospect). I figured I could pump up Lupul's value by putting him on the 1st line with Kessel, and he now has 17 goals and 18 assists in 34 games. I tried offering him up for trade, and... several teams offered a 3rd round pick with a low-end prospect, and the Red Wings offered Sproul and Marchenko. I feel like teams would be willing to offer a bit more than that for a guy who's on pace for 38 goals.

I should also add that I traded Eric Brewer for a 3rd round pick with a low-end prospect before the season started, and I traded Zach Sill for a second round pick. Those guys were both dead weight, so I'm not sure how Lupul's value was so low to begin with, and has stayed so low after such a good start to the season.

At least in EHM 07 the AI would value players by their reputation, which can increase / decrease if the player has a good / bad season. So good stats should help, but perhaps more than just one good season is required.

[sluice]

Duclair and Zykov both lost their rights after the season. Not sure if the Kings and Senators simply didn't qualify offers, or if they refused or what ... but virtually every team in the league made an offer for them both ... I just offered more.

This just happened in my Save... Duclair also got let go in my last EHM07 save. But he also turned into a bust.

Happened to me also in my last save.

My most recent trades (playing as the leafs), I find most of them unrealistic.. let me know what you guys think:

*Lupul VS St.Louis (Why would a cup contender team such as the Rangers want to move St.Louis?)
*Rielly VS Fowler (Ok, In real life that trade would be even in my books. BUT in this game Fowler is a pure beast)
*Horton VS Pearson (Horton was injured, has a huge salary and has worst stats than Pearson)
*Nylander + 4th VS Toffoli + 3rd (If anything, Nylander is a long shot and might be as good as Toffoli, I doubt he ever becomes much better. Plus I win in the pick swap)
*Leivo + 3rd VS Gustav Nyquist
*Percy + 4th VS Vatanen

[SirMichaelJordan]

I'm finding that trade values don't seem to be affected by a player's stats during the season. For example, before the season started I offered Joffrey Lupul. Several teams offered a 3rd round pick with a low-end prospect, and the Red Wings offered Ryan Sproul (decent prospect) and Alexey Marchenko (low-end prospect). I figured I could pump up Lupul's value by putting him on the 1st line with Kessel, and he now has 17 goals and 18 assists in 34 games. I tried offering him up for trade, and... several teams offered a 3rd round pick with a low-end prospect, and the Red Wings offered Sproul and Marchenko. I feel like teams would be willing to offer a bit more than that for a guy who's on pace for 38 goals.

I should also add that I traded Eric Brewer for a 3rd round pick with a low-end prospect before the season started, and I traded Zach Sill for a second round pick. Those guys were both dead weight, so I'm not sure how Lupul's value was so low to begin with, and has stayed so low after such a good start to the season.

At least in EHM 07 the AI would value players by their reputation, which can increase / decrease if the player has a good / bad season. So good stats should help, but perhaps more than just one good season is required.

If this isn't happening in this version maybe its a bug, hopefully they can fix it or apply the feature again.

[stone169]

How does NTC/NMC work in EHM? Because Danny G definitely has one...

I'm not sure if they changed this in EHM:EA, but in EHM2007 if you set the player's status as not being needed, you could pretty much trade them anywhere after that. If that didn't work, then just fine them for no reason.

[SimplyMonkey]

My most recent trades (playing as the leafs), I find most of them unrealistic.. let me know what you guys think:

*Lupul VS St.Louis (Why would a cup contender team such as the Rangers want to move St.Louis?)
*Rielly VS Fowler (Ok, In real life that trade would be even in my books. BUT in this game Fowler is a pure beast)
*Horton VS Pearson (Horton was injured, has a huge salary and has worst stats than Pearson)
*Nylander + 4th VS Toffoli + 3rd (If anything, Nylander is a long shot and might be as good as Toffoli, I doubt he ever becomes much better. Plus I win in the pick swap)
*Leivo + 3rd VS Gustav Nyquist
*Percy + 4th VS Vatanen

I just tried those trades and none of them worked for me. Congrats to pulling them off, in my saves trades like these never work.

[Giampaolo Fini]

Johnny Boychuck is having a career year, a possible Norris Trophy candidate and just got offered a fat extension by the Isles (while the Bruins that traded him are at risk of possibly not making the playoffs because they are without him,) yet in my sim of the 14-15 season he was on the trade block around deadline time and ended up in Columbus for a modest return.

[sluice]

My most recent trades (playing as the leafs), I find most of them unrealistic.. let me know what you guys think:

*Lupul VS St.Louis (Why would a cup contender team such as the Rangers want to move St.Louis?)
*Rielly VS Fowler (Ok, In real life that trade would be even in my books. BUT in this game Fowler is a pure beast)
*Horton VS Pearson (Horton was injured, has a huge salary and has worst stats than Pearson)
*Nylander + 4th VS Toffoli + 3rd (If anything, Nylander is a long shot and might be as good as Toffoli, I doubt he ever becomes much better. Plus I win in the pick swap)
*Leivo + 3rd VS Gustav Nyquist
*Percy + 4th VS Vatanen

I just tried those trades and none of them worked for me. Congrats to pulling them off, in my saves trades like these never work.

It's probably also a question of timing too... You know how sometime a player will be rated as a 3* during the season, and a few weeks later, he might be back up to 4*.
I also shop around A LOT for trades. I have a bunch of players in my shortlist that I really want to land and I keep bugging the other GM throughout the year until we can finally make a decent deal... In most case the other GM won't budge... I would say my trades are 25% luck and 75% hard work.

In 2 of my previous saves, (with other teams), I was able to land McDavid right after the draft for 2x 1st picks + a mediocre prospect.
This time, with my current Leaf saves, I am not able to land him, whatever I offer... (I even tried a top prospect with 3x 1st picks)

In my 3 previous saves, I tried landing Couture, and I only once was able to.
With the Sens: Ceci + 3rd VS Couture (I can't see this trade happening in real life..)

Current save(Leafs) off-season trade:
*Phaneuf VS Byfuglien (not as ridiculous as my other trades, but considering they are of same age, they have similar attributes, but Big Buff is more versatile and cost 1.25 millions less, imo I win again)
*Polak VS Ryan Pulock (I had tried to land him throughout the year without any luck.. this time it worked.. Clearly a BAD trade for the Isles...)

Pulock was somehow rated as 3* instead of a 4/5* blue chip prospect

[Satyr]

Anthony Duclair's (Quebec) rights belong to the Rangers, but they won't sign him. He becomes a great player in this game, so I pick him up every time I start a game and they accept a 4th rounder for this guy.

Dustin Byfuglien is also relative easy and cheap to get, but his salary might be a problem. He was rated a top-5 RW in 2018 in two different games I played.

[sluice]

Anthony Duclair's (Quebec) rights belong to the Rangers, but they won't sign him. He becomes a great player in this game, so I pick him up every time I start a game and they accept a 4th rounder for this guy.

Dustin Byfuglien is also relative easy and cheap to get, but his salary might be a problem. He was rated a top-5 RW in 2018 in two different games I played.

Byfuglien, will be strictly playing RD for me, I wish he was a natural at that position, instead of RW.
Another player that is really easy to get during the first season is Wayne Simmonds. I've seen him being dealt for naff players with a 3rd round pick.

I've noticed for Anthony Duclair...Every save, after the first season he becomes a free agent! I can't believe they would accept a 4th rounder for him! I tried signing him in my first 2 games without luck.
Last game, I managed to sign him. Same offer as always: 925k/year for 3 years on a two way contract, but with a hefty 1.5 millions bonus.

By the way, Duclair now belongs to the Arizona Coyotes, he was in the Keith Yandle deal... I haven't noticed but he's still with the NYR in the game!??

[sao.phim]

I think he is Arizona unsigned player in the beginning of game.

[Satyr]

I think he is Arizona unsigned player in the beginning of game.

Nope, Rangers unsigned prospect, playing for Quebec and available on a free at the end of season one.

In real live he does play for Quebec, but is a Arizona unsigned propect.

[Peter_Doherty]

Duclair is an Arizona prospect when you start the game....

[sluice]

The only trades I can make are when I offer to all. I've never been able to get a trade to work by proposing it myself.

You know that you can Inquire about a potential player?
In the trade screen, just don't put anything your end and you will be able to press the Inquire button.

Most of my deal have originated from there. Note that often, they will just deny a potential deal completely depending on the player and the context.
You can also do it the other way around, offer your player to a specific team, to see what they would offer for him.

I find when doing Offer to All, they keep offering the same naff picks and players.

[SimplyMonkey]

The only trades I can make are when I offer to all. I've never been able to get a trade to work by proposing it myself.

You know that you can Inquire about a potential player?
In the trade screen, just don't put anything your end and you will be able to press the Inquire button.

Most of my deal have originated from there. Note that often, they will just deny a potential deal completely depending on the player and the context.
You can also do it the other way around, offer your player to a specific team, to see what they would offer for him.

I find when doing Offer to All, they keep offering the same naff picks and players.

Yeh I've tried that too but they always come back with "not willing to trade" and I'm not even offering for UNT or 4 star players! Maybe it's something to do with me lol! I will keep trying, planning to do a new save soon with a different team.