How do you increase hitting?

[timmy_t]

I'm trying to figure out why I can't get my players to hit in the Sarnia challenge. I have high Str/Agg/Hit players and am continually out-hit by low Str/Agg/Hit opposition. Should I dial hitting up to Very Hard and aggression to Berserk?


Right now I have my hitters at Aggressive and Hard Hitting. Here are what I consider my top 3 "Hitters" and how they performed in my last game:

Egor Drubovsky - Str 15 Agg 19 Hit 14 --- 4 Hits
Quade Dyck - Str 18 Agg 13 Hit 15 --- 1 Hit
Colton Myers - Str 15 Agg 13 Hit 16 --- 0 Hits

Now, here are my opponent's top 3 actual hitters:

Austin Watson - Str 10 Agg 7 Hit 9 --- 5 Hits
Ryan Spooner - Str 9 Agg 5 Hit 5 --- 4 Hits
Alex Guptill - Str 10 Sgg 8 Hit 9 --- 3 Hits


So, can you see where I'm confused? It's honestly making me sad...

[bruins72]

Yeah, I'd bump up the hitting and aggression. I can't say that I can think of anything else.

Beyond that, it might be something to do with a hidden stat or the type of tactics your team is using. Or maybe they're not fast enough to catch the other guys and hit them?

[timmy_t]

Yeah, I'd bump up the hitting and aggression. I can't say that I can think of anything else.

Yeah, that's what I figured I'd try. My players are actually pretty fast too (for Juniors anyway). I guess I was just paranoid about taking penalties. I guess I'll need to bump up my penalty kill training. Thanks.

[bruins72]

You know, I was thinking about this some more. Do you have several players on your team that you're trying to get hitting more? It seems that players will do more hitting if there are only 2 or 3 guys set for big hitting. If you've got half your roster set to hit hard or very hard, the guys that should be hitting a lot don't hit as much.

[timmy_t]

Yeah, I actually have the whole team on hard hitting and another 5 or 6 set on very hard. I'm still out-hit by pretty much every team. One of my top hitters in the Sarnia challenge is O'Quinn, and you know how worthless and weak he is...

Do you think that playing zone vs. man-to-man would make a difference?

[bruins72]

Maybe. Do a 5 or 6 game test with each (changing nothing else) and see what happens.

[timmy_t]

Maybe. Do a 5 or 6 game test with each (changing nothing else) and see what happens.

I think you're on to something there. Would you use a combination of str/agg/hit to determine whether to set their individual tactics to hard or very hard?

[bruins72]

I would try it the way you have your tactics set not but switch from zone to man-to-man for a 6 game test. If there is no noticeable increase in hitting, change it back. Then try setting the whole team's hitting at normal or lower, with the exception of maybe two guys. Look for the two players with the highest strength and hitting. You could also look at aggression too. Do a 6 game test and see what happens. Then keep the hitting the way you've just set it and change from zone to man-to-man. Do another 6 game test and see what happens.

I'd be interested to hear what you get for results.

[Vanaja]

I don't play challenge, so i dont know your players, but..

When playing normal NHL season, I have noticed that top hitters in leagua are +220lbs. In top 50 smallest player usually is 210-205lbs

It seems that hiting attribute does not influence so much how often player hits, but how hard player hit or succeed.
Player with +220lbs & Hiting 10 gets far more hits than player with 190lbs & hiting 20.

That is why bigger cheking line players get better ratings, because they get more hits than smaler players.

It seems that size is most important factor for hitting freguency... so get bigger players

[timmy_t]

Thanks for the input guys; I'm still working on putting something concrete together to help everyone out at TBL. Two quick observations though-

First, my top hitters are big guys: (37 games played)

1. Robert Laplante - 6'1" 211 lbs Str-18 Agg-14 Bra-16 Hit-10 150 Hits
2. Jean-Yves Adair - 6'3" 198 lbs Str-20 Agg-15- Bra-12 Hit-16 143 Hits
3. Egor Dubrovsky - 6' 227 lbs Str-15 Agg-19 Bra-13 Hit-15 132 Hits
4. Brett Ritchie - 6'4" 200 lbs Str-14 Agg-9 Bra-10 Hit-13 97 Hits
5. Mitch Zion - 6' 200 lbs Str-9 Agg-7 Bra-11 Hit-8 67 Hits

Notice that my top Hitter has a score of "10" in Hitting, this gives credit to Vanaja's reply (where his observations show that size is a big factor in Hitting) Also, Mitch Zion, who has horrible attributes in general, has 67 Hits, but he's 6' and 200 lbs.


Just to let you know, up to this point, every line plays Aggressive, Heavy Puck Pressure, and Hard Hitting (Regardless of their size or Hitting attribute - 6'1" 211 lbs)

My lowest hitters are little guys:

1. Scott Draper - 5'11" 156 lbs Str-8 Agg-6 Bra-16 Hit-5 5 Hits
2. Ronald Marshall - 5'11" 160 lbs Str-12 Agg-13- Bra-11 Hit-11 15 Hits
3. Brandon Francisco - 6' 167 lbs Str-10 Agg-6 Bra-10 Hit-10 20 Hits
4. Justyn Van Leusen - 6'2" 160 lbs Str-12 Agg-14 Bra-13 Hit-12 20 Hits
5. Frederic Allaire - 5'10" lbs Str-20 Agg-5 Bra-11 Hit-7 21 Hits

Of all of these, the most disappointing is Justin Van Leusen because he is great defenseman with good attributes, but he just won't throw the body.


My other observation is a little generic at this time and has to do with zone vs. man coverage. I've found that on average, man coverage adds about 10-15 hits per game. It's not a huge increase, maybe one per player if they're having a good game, but it does help with game rating.

The next thing I'm going to do is lower the sliders for Aggression, Puck Pressure and Hitting to Normal and then work on personal settings (which are one of the key things bruins72 stresses to people asking for tactics help)

[bruins72]

Wow... it really does look like size plays a huge part in hitting. I'm a bit disappointed that the game overlooks the "Hitting" attribute in favor of size. Why have the attribute? Plus, there are plenty of big guys that just don't hit.

[harmonica]

Another thing to look at is puck possession time, if you are clearly dominating and spending a lot of time in their offensive zone, you are more likely to take hits. This is just off the top of my head, but it seems to be true with most hockey games.

Ummm, this is really interesting and I would like to test some things out.

I have always assumed weight/height have never mattered in this game other than to help figure out regens, so if this theory of size is true, it adds a new element to the game.

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I've noticed that size plays a huge part in hitting (and therefore overall rating). Maybe when two players come together on a hit, the bigger player generally "wins", and is credited with the hit, while the smaller player, even if he initiated the hit, "loses" and isn't credited with a hit.

I try to build my 4th line / 3rd defensive pair from huge players, even if their attributes aren't as good as other options. They stay happy and their ratings are high.

[timmy_t]

I try to build my 4th line / 3rd defensive pair from huge players, even if their attributes aren't as good as other options. They stay happy and their ratings are high.

That's what I'm going to try with my next game

[Vanaja]

Quick sim or Full detail in league settings make quite difference to hitting stats. I did test run 2006-2007 season with all leagues enhanced and same database both time.

some interesting results

using Full Detail in all matches/leagues:
-Top50 hitting: 13 Defensemen, 37 Forwards
-Top10 hitting: only forwards
-Full Detail generaly favor big forwards

with Quick Sim:
-Top50 hitting: 45 Defensemen, 5 Forwards
-Top30 hitting: only defenders
-Quick Sim mostly favor Defenders and Defensive Forwards

Real life 2006-2007:
-Top30 hitting: 18 defenders, 12 forwards
-Top10 hitting: 4 / 6
-Most hits: Chris Neil 288

Some players: Full Sim / Quick Sim (Real life stat for 06-07)
6'3" 224lbs Josef Stumpel Hits: 339 / 3 (58) with attributes hitting 7, aggression 4, bravery 10
6'4" 218lbs Anze Kopitar Hits 236 / 32 (55) with hiting attribute 9 and aggression 6
6'5" 229lbs Mats Sundin Hits: 232 / 87 (75)
6'3" 213lbs Olli Jokinen Hits: 271 / 70 (52)
6'0" 198lbs Cris Clark Hits: 53 / 207 (91)
6'1" 187lbs Tim Taylot Hits: 140 / 238 (39)
5'11" 189lbs John Madden Hits: 72 / 210 (52)

6'9" 257lbs Zdeno Chara Hits: 245 / 560 (203)
6'2" 229lbs Brendan Witt Hits: 282 / 454 ( 231)
5'10" 189lbs Brian Rafalski Hits: 59 / 95 ( 60)

full detail: big forwards get too much hits regardless actual hitting attribute. Kopitar and stumpel are good example for that...
quick sim: defensive players get way too much hits, but actual hitting attribute means something.

Game is great, but I think we need one patch more...

[riz_si]

I've noticed that size plays a huge part in hitting (and therefore overall rating). Maybe when two players come together on a hit, the bigger player generally "wins", and is credited with the hit, while the smaller player, even if he initiated the hit, "loses" and isn't credited with a hit.

I think this is pretty much the cause for the hitting stats being the way they are. I'll have a look in the code one of these nights and try to verify. Considering the discussion in this thread, would it be better if a hit was credited to the player who originated the contact if he was actually going for a hit, rather than the bigger player who just absorbed the hit and possibly knocked the smaller player down in the process ?

P.S. I also hated Jagr getting many hits on my team just because he was big and was always targeted by opp. defensemen because he had the puck a lot. But we just didn't get the chance to continue the development back then to polish off the little things that were found over time. However considering the whole 2d engine was built up from scratch in about a year or so, I think it served its purpose okay

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Holy rubbish, I was right about something? I need to tell my wife about this right away as proof that I can be right every once in a while!

[batdad]

Don't do it Richie. She will just tell you that is "your one exception that proves the rule" or "every clock is right twice a day, which is still better than you" or that "once in a lifetime, everyone gets to be right, and now you have had yours"...or

"are you playing on that darn internet again, (my wife says I am playing with my "dots" when I open EHM)...can't you do something more productive?"

Or..."I call BS...you are lying"

It is no win. Don't waste your time...I mean the "dots" are way more important right?"