League reputations

Post by **Manimal** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:18 pm

I have been looking over the leagues and I'm trying to set up the reputations. Please let me know if you think any of these needs to change

Rep	League
20	NHL
19
18
17
16
15	KHL
14	AHL
13	SHL
	Finnish Liiga
	Swiss NL A
12	DEL
11	ECHL
	Czech Tipssport Liga
	Austrian EBEL
10	Swedish Hockeyallsvenskan
	Norwegian GET-Liga
	Russian Vysshaya League
	Slovakian Extraliga
	Kazakhstan Championship
	OHL
	QMJHL
	WHL
	NCAA Div. 1
9	Danish Metal Ligaen
	Czech Chance Liga
	Finnish Mestis
	French Magnus League
	Russian Pervaya Liga
	United States Hockey League
8	DEL2
	Elite Ice Hockey League
	Swiss NL B
	Slovenian Elite League
	Slovakian First League
	Belarus Hockey League
	Ukraine League
	Swedish J20 SuperElit
	Russian Minor Hockey League
	Erste Liga
7	Canadian U Sports
	LNAH
	Rumanian Superleague
	Swedish HockeyEttan
	American College Hockey Association
	Latvijas Virsliga
	Polish Elite League
	Asia League Ice Hockey
	Alps Hockey League
	Finnish Jr.A SM-Liiga
6	Southern Professional Hockey League
	Finnish Suomi-Sarja
	North American Hockey League
	British Columbia Hockey League
	Australian Ice Hockey League
5	BeNeLiga

djskek · Post by **djskek** » Thu May 05, 2011 5:40 pm

I think, the czech League is not better as DEL & Swiss NLA!

bestrafer7 · Post by **bestrafer7** » Thu May 05, 2011 7:26 pm

I would make these changes:

Swedish Elite League to 15.
AHL to 15
Czech league to 12
CHL Leagues to 10
North American Hockey League to 8
Swedish J-20 Super Elit to 8
Finnish Juniors to 6

Post by **Manimal** » Thu May 05, 2011 11:51 pm

If we raise SEL and AHL, then I think we should raise the KHL, too. That league is above the others, every succesful player in the SEL is eying the KHL (mostly due to money but that increases the rep, not only quality)
The Czech league should be higher than the Slovak league.
The NAHL could maybe be raised to a 7 but it is slightly lower than the USHL, I think

djskek · Post by **djskek** » Thu May 05, 2011 11:58 pm

Manimal wrote: The Czech league should be higher than the Slovak league.

The slovak league should be devalued. Isn't so good as german, switzerland and czech:

SEL 14

SM Liga & AHL 13

DEL, NLA, Czech Extraliga 12

Slovakia & Co 11

bestrafer7 · Post by **bestrafer7** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:35 am

djskek wrote:The slovak league should be devalued. Isn't so good as german, switzerland and czech:

I agree that the Slovakian league is a lower level than the DEL, NLA and Czech league.

Manimal wrote:If we raise SEL and AHL, then I think we should raise the KHL, too. That league is above the others, every succesful player in the SEL is eying the KHL (mostly due to money but that increases the rep, not only quality)

I absolutely believe the AHL should be raised.. since introducing a 30-team league and NHL affiliations for all teams, their are more NHL prospects, veterans and players in the AHL than any other league around the world.

Manimal wrote:The NAHL could maybe be raised to a 7 but it is slightly lower than the USHL, I think

The USHL is the slightly better league than the NAHL.

After all things considered I would have them...

20 NHL
16 KHL
15 AHL
14 SEL
13 SM-Liiga
12 DEL, Czech Extraliga, NLA
11 Slovak Extraliga

As for Junior leagues...

10 OHL, WHL, QMJHL
9 NCAA, Swedish Super Elit U20, MHL
8 USHL, SM-Liiga Jr A
7 USHS, NAHL, Canadian Jr A (AJHL, BCHL, SJHL, etc)
6 CIS, Swiss Elite Jr A
5 Czech U20, Slovakia U20, Junioren-Bundesliga (German Jrs), Canadian Midget AAA, Canadian Junior B
4 Canadian Bantam, US Junior B
3

friggan · Post by **friggan** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:52 pm

i think the norweigen leaue is better then the danish. and swiss better than czeck

Post by **Primis** » Fri May 27, 2011 2:26 pm

Is there a compelling reason to not have KHL at 17 instead of 16?

Post by **Manimal** » Fri May 27, 2011 4:28 pm

Primis wrote:Is there a compelling reason to not have KHL at 17 instead of 16?

Not really.

bestrafer7 · Post by **bestrafer7** » Sat May 28, 2011 7:23 am

Primis wrote:Is there a compelling reason to not have KHL at 17 instead of 16?

KHL is no where near the NHL level.

Post by **Jypfan92** » Sat May 28, 2011 8:08 am

...they sign tough NHL-players a la Jagr, Radulov, Zubov, Afinogenov, Demitra, Stumpel, Rachunek...

The game is pretty good in KHL, but it has no tradition in league, its only 3 years old? And the financial stuff ain't secure there.

Post by **Manimal** » Sat May 28, 2011 8:37 am

Jypfan92 wrote:...they sign tough NHL-players a la Jagr, Radulov, Zubov, Afinogenov, Demitra, Stumpel, Rachunek...

The game is pretty good in KHL, but it has no tradition in league, its only 3 years old? And the financial stuff ain't secure there.

Those guys you mention are all (excluding Radulov) old europeans on the downside of their career.
KHL should be higher than the other euro-leagues but not close to the NHL. When I think of it again, 16 seems just right

Post by **Jypfan92** » Sat May 28, 2011 11:47 am

However, everytime in Ehm they make big contracts worth of 5 mills a year, not matter of their age and so.

I really like if Russian teams could sign them, even though in my edited orig.db some failed NHL-"stars" make contracts with DEL-teams (Mike Comrie, Brett McLean etc.), not with Russian Superleague -teams.

In my next save I will edit extra.config to make them go Russia after first 1-3 seasons.

Post by **batdad** » Mon May 30, 2011 5:57 pm

Brett Maclean and the word star in the same sentence? WHAT? Mike Comrie? WHAT?
There is not a player from anywhere except Russia in the KHL that could play on an NHL #1 line that would have that NHL team be good. THere may not even be a 2nd liner. Jagr, Demitra...done.

THere is not a top calibre NHL dman in the KHL. Not one. Not from any country. Not one guy who could run a real PP or be a #1 shutdown guy who challenges for any kind of NHL award.

There is not one top NHL goalie in the KHL. Even the ones who are middle of the road (Nabokov) go over and leave. Sorry...the KHL is not even close to the NHL. Not even.

yes...it is the best Euro league. But that is all it is..the best Euro league.

Someday..it may challenge the NHL by getting the top Russians to stay home. But it is not doing so. Filatov? That dude who played in Nashville...Radulov...they may have POTENTIAL...but they have not shown it in the NHL...they cannot be considered top guys..they cannot make the potential of the KHL go up to any level but where it is.

And yeah--guys like Comrie, Maclean signed somewhere not in the Superleague is not a shock to me in the game. Happens in real life too. North American players are more likely to go to Germany, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland than Russia. They just are. And yes..even for less money. The rep over here for the Superleague is that it is iffy at best whether you get paid or not. Several have come back part way through a season...and word gets around how poorly they were treated. Coaches too. Ask Dave King.

Brad McRimmon going to try...if same thing happens to him...another hit for KHL.

Post by **Jypfan92** » Mon May 30, 2011 7:31 pm

batdad wrote:Brett Maclean and the word star in the same sentence? WHAT? Mike Comrie? WHAT?

I wrote "star" not star.

By the way, KHL has tough defenders, Kulyash, Nikulin, Atyushov, Rachunek and Kalinin to name few. And very good goalies like Petri Vehanen, Konstantin Barulin, Jakub Stepanek, Aleksandr Eremenko and Ilya Proskuryakov. They're not so popular names in N-A, but they all would be tough additions to any NHL-team.

And you say that players should show their potential in NHL to be top guys? It has no sense. You can't rate players by the league or team they play in. It's how they play. Radulov has been superb in KHL and international games.

But I've no time to discuss this week so maybe it's better to stop this conversation.

gazzw87 · Post by **gazzw87** » Mon May 30, 2011 7:45 pm

I'd agree with the RSL/KHL being put at 16 rep and that it is the best European League!

Saying things like 'its the best euro league... but that is all it is' is abit rude really! If it wasn't for Europe the NHL wouldn't be as good as it is. Also some people seem to forget that KHL teams and even Swiss teams have beat NHL teams. (even though the excuse is 'it wasn't 1st line NHL'ers blah blah)

The current World Champs final was 4 European teams also! KHL finances might not be as secure or as 'legal' as the NHL but there is more money in the KHL that's for sure! and the league is evolving well, alot of SM-liiga and Elitserien guys are deciding to go there now too.

Not to start some war or arguements. Yeah the NHL is the biggest and best but it's not the whole hockey world!

Post by **batdad** » Tue May 31, 2011 5:41 pm

JYP--Not one of those defensemen you mention is anything more than a #4 dman on an NHL team. Kulyash, Rachunek and Kalinin have completely proven that. They are not that good. So just stop it. And yes...they need to show in the best league in the world that they are the best players in the world to be considered "star" players. Sorry...but any hockey player worth his salt would say EXACTLY the same thing. If they are the best, show they are the best against the best. KHL does not have the best.

That is an argument though that you will just continue on and on with...and it does not belong in this forum. You want to argue whether KHL players are as good as NHL players...yes some are as good as the bottom half of NHL rosters. But the names you mention...are only bottom half of NHL rosters. Period.

Radulov--Great player no question. He showed it in the NHL for a second. But then he decided to go back to Russia. SHould have stayed and showed how good he was in the best league. TO be the best you have to beat the best. He is not doing that. So not the best. Just another guy without the gumption and tesiticular fortitude to stick with it. If and when he goes back to NHL good luck to him and I hope he succeeds. He has the skill. But that is all he has shown. No balls, no motivation to show he is the best nothing.

grazza--No its not rude to say its the best Euro league, but that is all it is. It is a fact...its not anything more or less than the best Euro league (KHL). Nothing wrong with that. Nothing rude about saying that. It is just a statement of fact. And if you think you are speaking to someone who only cares about the NHL...you do not know your facts. I happen to follow 3 other leagues much more closely than I follow the NHL. You are assuming way too much about me when you have no idea. I am not insulting the KHL...I am just putting them in their spot. The 2nd or maybe 3rd (AHL and it are close) best league for professional hockey players in the world. But..it is in danger of losing that, because of all the issues it is having financially and the fact that Western players are starting not to be interested in going due to the culture or the way they are treated in Russia by their clubs. EVen Nabokov a guy who is used to the culture is bad mouthing the league. Not a good thing.

And yeah..not arguing with you and won't. You accused me of being rude. Not doing so. Just facts. Euro teams in final four of worlds ... good. Again though you can hardly say that is a BEST ON BEST competition can you? Only the Olympics has show that. National team hockey is different from club hockey. Totally different. KHL vs NHL cannot be compared in any way to that. There are good Russian players and Swedes and FInns and probably Koreans who are not in the NHL. No question. But that has nothing to do with KHL vs NHL debate. Nothing whatsoever. All players of ALL nationalities will tell you..the best players are in the NHL. TO be the best player and prove I am the best I need to show it in the NHL.

gazzw87 · Post by **gazzw87** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:26 pm

batdad wrote: grazza--No its not rude to say its the best Euro league, but that is all it is. It is a fact...its not anything more or less than the best Euro league (KHL). Nothing wrong with that. Nothing rude about saying that. It is just a statement of fact. And if you think you are speaking to someone who only cares about the NHL...you do not know your facts. I happen to follow 3 other leagues much more closely than I follow the NHL. You are assuming way too much about me when you have no idea. I am not insulting the KHL...I am just putting them in their spot. The 2nd or maybe 3rd (AHL and it are close) best league for professional hockey players in the world. But..it is in danger of losing that, because of all the issues it is having financially and the fact that Western players are starting not to be interested in going due to the culture or the way they are treated in Russia by their clubs. EVen Nabokov a guy who is used to the culture is bad mouthing the league. Not a good thing.

And yeah..not arguing with you and won't. You accused me of being rude. Not doing so. Just facts. Euro teams in final four of worlds ... good. Again though you can hardly say that is a BEST ON BEST competition can you? Only the Olympics has show that. National team hockey is different from club hockey. Totally different. KHL vs NHL cannot be compared in any way to that. There are good Russian players and Swedes and FInns and probably Koreans who are not in the NHL. No question. But that has nothing to do with KHL vs NHL debate. Nothing whatsoever. All players of ALL nationalities will tell you..the best players are in the NHL. TO be the best player and prove I am the best I need to show it in the NHL.

Batdad I think you took my post alittle too personally? Rude in the fact that 90% of North American hockey fans live in a bubble. I agree with you 100% the NHL is where the 'best' players will always end up if they want to prove they are the best and such.

Somethings I wouldn't agree with is the treatment of players in Russia/KHL. REGARDLESS of the nationality of the player, each team will have it's own rules and ways to do business, if players don't like it that's there fault! Some player's think they are bigger then league's and team's and expect to be treated like royalty. There was once an occasion here in the UK when a player joined a team in the top league and turned up for training in a limo and expected ALL his expenses to be paid by the team just because he'd played in the NHL!... Hopefully you see my point here!

The other would be KHL finances. The people might not be as 'legal' or as 'open' as they are in the NHL but remember this is Eastern Europe where many different rules apply. There is alot of money that isn't going anywhere any time soon. The economy of the countries the league is based in is relatively poor compared to USA/CAN hence why teams lose loads of money, since tickets are usually around $5!

Not here to argue anyway, ofcourse not! Just sharing my views!

Post by **batdad** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:35 pm

Heh. I know some of the boys is kind of stupid. All their life focused on hockey. No time for school and learning that they are not all their is to be in life. But also...team should be explaining to the players when they bring em in what is expected, and what they will be given. 2 way street.

Nope not taken personally. You said rude..I said nope just facts.

KHL financial and system may be different, but if you bring someone over from North America it better be explained to them so that they are making an informed decision on going. That way when they come back here..they cannot pain. THye knew what the risk was going over. as it is, it appears things are not being explained about how things are done in the KHL and the guys come back over here and bad mouth it. This leaves the league with a reputation it cannot afford.

The NHL can afford badmouthing. It is still the best league, and if players bad mouth it..others just say :Oh I guess you were not good enough and now you are whining. The KHL? Nope. A player who played in the show comes back and says "That league sucks!" Noone says the guy was not good enough, they take his opinion and listen to him saying the league sucks and passes it on. This kills KHL in North America when the cultural changes to go there are already too much of an adjustment for the North American pro players.

VANSDM · Post by **VANSDM** » Tue May 28, 2019 10:27 am

I saw on this forum once that someone had made a tiered list of leagues, so as to determine which leagues were similar to others in terms of quality of opposition.

I've tried to search for it but I can't seem to track it down. Does anyone know how to find said list?

Rigafan · Post by **Rigafan** » Thu May 30, 2019 10:01 am

VANSDM wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 10:27 am I saw on this forum once that someone had made a tiered list of leagues, so as to determine which leagues were similar to others in terms of quality of opposition.

I've tried to search for it but I can't seem to track it down. Does anyone know how to find said list?

http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 8&p=122431

That thread has the basic list of league reputations, and people discussing it

Post by **Manimal** » Fri May 31, 2019 12:46 pm

I have updated this list as it was linked to in another thread.
I also made some minor changes and we will discuss if further changes are needed.

League reputation is first of all a measure of how attractive the league is to players

Post by **Manimal** » Fri May 31, 2019 12:50 pm

I have updated that list now

VANSDM · Post by **VANSDM** » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:51 am

Manimal wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 12:46 pm I have updated this list as it was linked to in another thread.
I also made some minor changes and we will discuss if further changes are needed.

Would you mind if I used your list as a framework for a project I am working on?

Post by **Manimal** » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:38 am

VANSDM wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:51 am
Manimal wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 12:46 pm I have updated this list as it was linked to in another thread.
I also made some minor changes and we will discuss if further changes are needed.
Would you mind if I used your list as a framework for a project I am working on?

No problem, go ahead.