1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[The Leaf]

I have a question when it comes to drafts. Will the rankings be according to how the players turned out in real life(Having guys who turned out to be steals going in the 1st round)? Or will they be similar to how the actual drafts went?

[nino33]

For sure the drafts won’t be the same as they were in real life, as IRL in the 1970s there were rules restricting the drafting of players under the age of 20 (these rules are not in place in EHM) + IRL in the 1970s the WHA often signed players before they were draft eligible (in EHM this won’t be possible) + IRL in the 1970s the NHL/WHA had separate drafts and often drafted the same player (in EHM the NHL/WHA are now combined to make the hardcoded 30 team NHL, and so teams won’t be drafting the same player)

AND the players won’t be ranked/drafted according to “how they turned out" in the NHL as I think they’ll be ranked/drafted based on their in-game performance as a teenager BEFORE they are drafted….IRL NHL stars that start as preteens in EHM will play for years before they are drafted by a Major Junior team, and then they’ll play a couple/few years in Major Junior AND THEN they’ll be drafted into the NHL

I think all the regular factors of player development in EHM will apply (coaching, injuries, linemates, etc) – while the PA of preteen IRL “future stars” will I think cause them to for sure develop into NHL players, it’s hard to predict exactly where they’ll be in their development the year they become draft eligible

[nino33]

(on December 23) I’ve been working mostly on adding individual NHL/WHA player history, and at this point I am working on the 13th of the 30 NHL teams.

I now have 18 teams completed! Working on the 19th team right now...

[nino33]

(on December 23) I’ve been working mostly on adding individual NHL/WHA player history, and at this point I am working on the 13th of the 30 NHL teams.
(on December 28) I now have 18 teams completed! Working on the 19th team right now...

23 teams completed! Working on the 24th team right now...

Happy New Year!

[MXD]

Awesome!
Continue your good work!
As a side note...

Do you intend to create players with a staff profile as well?
The reason for this question is, well, there was a few players of that era who would end up making quite a name for theirselves in the coaching/GMing (Savard, Robinson, Lemaire, Crisp)...

[nino33]

Do you intend to create players with a staff profile as well?

Yes.
I haven't looked into all of the options/details yet.....is a staff profile always required? does a staff profile gurantee a (young) player will become a staff?
To make up for the lack of Assistant Coaches in 1974 there are already many (veteran) players who I have edited into a Player/Coach in-game + I intend on (eventuaally) ensuring all those players that became "management" have a staff profile

[nino33]

(on December 23) I’ve been working mostly on adding individual NHL/WHA player history, and at this point I am working on the 13th of the 30 NHL teams.
(on December 28) I now have 18 teams completed! Working on the 19th team right now...
(on December 31) 23 teams completed! Working on the 24th team right now...

26 teams done, working on the 27th now...

[nino33]

nino33 wrote:
(on December 23) I’ve been working mostly on adding individual NHL/WHA player history, and at this point I am working on the 13th of the 30 NHL teams.
(on December 28) I now have 18 teams completed! Working on the 19th team right now...
(on December 31) 23 teams completed! Working on the 24th team right now...
(on January 3) 26 teams done, working on the 27th now...

Woo Hoo! All 30 teams are now done! All players contracted to an NHL team have all of their NHL/WHA history entered!

Now I move on to populating the NHL teams with a full compliment of Staff; currently there are 110 historical Staff already in the database, with many more "on paper" that I now have to actually add into the database

Progress continues!

[nino33]

I was looking at (adding) Draft Year, Rights, Date Joined Club and Contract End Date (going through the same group of players)...and I'm once again back to wanting to include the 1975/1976 drafts as if they've already happened (so NHL teams will actually have prospects...I really want NHL teams to have some prospects)
What I'm having trouble with is determining contract length - the first guy I looked at was with the team for 10 years from 1974, the next guy 7...I was going to use length of unbroken time with the team IRL (from 1974) as contract length, but that would be a 10 year contract for the first guy and a 7 year contract for the next guy - i didn't like these initial results

Anyone have any thoughts on contract length?
Maybe 2-3 years for (younger) players up to a certain age, and 4-6 years for other (older) players? And I roll dice to decide...Or.....
FYI - For now all players have "0" as the Contract $$ Amount (meaning all NHL players have a computer generated salary amount)

I've decided to move on to adding additional historical staff to the database, and take some time to think about how to deal with contract length...so let me know if you have any thoughts on the issue

Regards

[archibalduk]

Congratulations on getting all 30 NHL team player histories completed! I know how time consuming that task is. It will add so much to the experience of your rosters, being able to look back at how a player performed in previous seasons.

Maybe you could set a ceiling for contract lengths? So any player who played for more than five years at the team could simply have a five year contract?

Or maybe you could divide the time they spent at the team by two and use that as the contract length (e.g. a player at the team for five years would have a three year contract (i.e. round up 2.5 to 3))? Perhaps this might make other players' contracts too short however. I personally think the ceiling idea is better.

With regards to team records (you mentioned this in your PM to me) - It could be done via hex editing but it will be quite a lengthy task. For each player record you will need the following info in addition to the value of the record itself:

1) StaffID
2) First name ID of the player
3) Second name ID of the player

In effect, you'll need access to data from the following tables:

1) Staff.dat
2) First_names.dat
3) Second_names.dat
4) Club_comp.dat
5) Club.dat

I think those basic_*.csv files which you use for the History Editor might well help you with this because I *think* they will have all the info you'll need. It would be best practice to create a new set of basic_*.csv files using the History Extractor before working on the team records (because each time you add/delete/rename staff/teams/leagues, the ID numbers can change).

I plan on working on the team records for Manimal v4.1 in maybe about a week's time (once I have completed research for some player histories). I might have something I can share with you in about 1-2 weeks time which will allow you to do the editing in Excel rather than having to use hex editing.

[gmcfarla]

Good news!

Congratulations on adding all the players' histories. That must have been a huge volume of work, and for that we are most grateful. By comparison, I hope that adding historical staff will be much less work.

After watching your countdown to completing the players' histories, I was hoping that an initial version might be available soon. I've been monitoring this thread for several weeks now with great anticipation. I really enjoyed the 1979 database, and can't wait to try your 1974 database, especially after watching all the work you've been doing on it.

I imagine adding draft prospects may add several more weeks worth of work for you.

I know you're reluctant to commit to schedules, but I'm wondering if you think you're a few weeks away from an initial release or several months? Obviously, I can't wait to start playing.

Once again, many thanks for undertaking this project.

Cheers,

Glenn

[nino33]

Thanks much for the feedback on contract length Arch; I think a contract length ceiling might be the best approach

I plan on working on the team records for Manimal v4.1 in maybe about a week's time (once I have completed research for some player histories). I might have something I can share with you in about 1-2 weeks time which will allow you to do the editing in Excel rather than having to use hex editing.

Alright! That's awesome! I eagerly await whatever you put together to allow for easier editing

I'm wondering if you think you're a few weeks away from an initial release or several months?

I'm not sure, but maybe somewhere between a few weeks and several monnths...

[nino33]

I imagine adding draft prospects may add several more weeks worth of work for you.

Actually the “draft prospects” for the first few years are already pretty much done and in the database! Some of the preteen players still need to be created (especially those under age 10), but I imagine I’ll do this after the first “public release”
What I do need to get done before a release is adding in the relevant Draft/Rights data (along with Contract data)

AND I had kinda forgotten that I still have 500+ (young) players on “placeholder teams” – As mentioned a while back in this thread, I had gone through and ensured correct age and an appropriate CA, but I still need to move them to their proper teams!….I did a test yesterday and noticed Eddie Mio and Michel Dion being offered contracts right away, and this led to me “remembering” I still need to put players on their proper teams ...But I don’t think this will take too long!

Progress on my current task (adding Staff) is going well

[Manimal]

Great work Nino!
I also think Archi's idea about a contract ceiling would be fitting.
For rookies, you should probably go with the three-year entry-level deals as that is what the get nowadays. Plus, the game does it that way with young guys.

You don't need to add NHL-rights to NHL-signed players. It comes automatically in the game

[nino33]

Thanks Much Manimal!

[gmcfarla]

Hi Nino33,

Many thanks for the update. Things sound very encouraging!

Your post identified three things you'd like to get done before your initial release:

- draft prospects
- young players on placeholder teams
- adding staff

Is there anything else that you plan to add before your initial release? If there is a list then we can monitor your progress without having to keep asking for a timeline.

I always enjoy reading your updates, I'm sure many other people on the list do as well. I'm very excited about what you're doing, and look forward to the day when we can all experience the fruit of all your hard work.

Thanks again for doing this!

Cheers,

Glenn

[archibalduk]

I think we should hold on to our horses and accept that it'll be ready when it's ready.

[nino33]

.
Thanks for the kind words gmcfarla

Your post identified three things you'd like to get done before your initial release:
- draft prospects
- young players on placeholder teams
- adding staff

FYI - "draft prospects" and "young players on placeholder teams" are the same players

Is there anything else that you plan to add before your initial release?

Yes, but they're what I consider "little things".....like reviewing Arenas (currently I think about 10 NHL Arenas are incorrect), and reviewing Team Attributes (things like Reputation and Fan Support), and a few more things...

If there is a list then we can monitor your progress without having to keep asking for a timeline

I'm afraid there's no list.
I think "maybe somewhere between a few weeks and several monnths" is a timeline though...



Ultimately as Archi says "it'll be ready when it's ready"
I'm a Teacher Assistant and have been on holidays the last two weeks (and so I've had more time to work on the database); work starts again tomorrow!

(on January 7) What I do need to get done before a release is adding in the relevant Draft/Rights data (along with Contract data)

This is what I'm doing now (along with working on adding Staff).
Currently I'm working on the 4th of 30 teams (and I've added dozens of Staff in the last few days too!)


Regards

[gmcfarla]

Hi Nino33,

Thanks once again for your update and clarification. It's great that you were able to accomplish so much during your holidays!

In case it wasn't perfectly clear, I was not in any way trying to apply any pressure on completion of the project. I was merely trying to get a vague idea about how close you thought you might be, which you've answered.

Fear not, archibalduk - although they can sense the carrot, my horses are definitely being held!

As stated before, it's absolutely amazing that you've taken on this project. We are all very appreciative of all the work you're putting into it (and archibalduk's help, too!), and the fact that you're working around your day job to do this in your valuable free time is a true credit to your commitment.

I will now return to monitoring this thread in silence, and look forward to your posts as you work your way through the remaining tasks. I promise I will not post any more questions on your progress any time soon.

Best wishes,

Glenn

[archibalduk]

Fear not, archibalduk - although they can sense the carrot, my horses are definitely being held!

Hehe! Glad to hear it!

[nino33]

adding in the relevant Draft/Rights data (along with Contract data)...This is what I'm doing now...
(on January 8th) Currently I'm working on the 4th of 30 teams

FYI Just finished the 9th of 30 teams

[MXD]

Awesome!

Not posting much anymore, but certainly looking here and there.

I might have missed this answer regarding european players...

But for the guys we were actually willing to come to NA, and were able to do so (Nedomansky, the Stastny's, and to a lesser extent, Novy, Kiessling, the Inhacak's and Frycer), do you plan on "letting" them leave Europe? That's actually especially the case for Nedomansky, who started the 74-75 season in the WHA (when he was 30 years old). I'm not including Balderis in this group, since it was actually in 89-90, when he was 38 years old.

[nino33]

regarding european players...

I haven't looked at European/Russian players in many, many months! It's nice to think about them again!

100% for sure all Europeans in the NHL/WHA in-real-life in 1974 are in the 1974 database.
For example, Nedomansky is on the Birmingham Bulls and Ulf Nilsson and Anders Hedberg are on the Winnipeg Jets.

The longest contract possible in EHM is 11 years, so the Russians will be under contract and playing in Russia until 2017 in-game.
My intention is guys will have contract lengths that allow them to come to North America when they did in-real-life...guys like the Peter Stastny would have a 6 year contract, Thomas Gradin would have a 4 year contract, etc
I'm also intending on trying to use Attributes too....so Europeans/Russians that actually came to North America would have higher Adaptability, Russian players would have a higher Loyalty (to try and keep them in Russia)

I expect to once again be looking at the Europeans/Russians in the next month or so, and then I'll know better what it'll look like when first released...

Regards

[nino33]

adding in the relevant Draft/Rights data (along with Contract data)...This is what I'm doing now...
(on January 8th) Currently I'm working on the 4th of 30 teams
(on January 15th) Just finished the 9th of 30 teams

Just finished the 20th team...

[nino33]

adding in the relevant Draft/Rights data (along with Contract data)...This is what I'm doing now...
(on January 8th) Currently I'm working on the 4th of 30 teams
(on January 15th) Just finished the 9th of 30 teams
(on January 22nd) Just finished the 20th team...

Just finished the 25th team...