1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[Manimal]

Well once again Gretzky was signed as an 18 year old Free Agent!....before or after the Draft? I'm not sure.....
So I did a bit more eiting and now another test (it has to be 5 in-game years, so it takes awhile)

Did you make a new version of him as I suggested? Remember to add Birthyear

[nino33]

Did you make a new version of him as I suggested? Remember to add Birthyear

Made a new version (with Birth Year), same results

[nino33]

teams will end up wasting high draft picks on Russians they end up being unable to sign.....negative - a bit unrealistic.

IRL the first Rusian drafted was 1975! Fetisov was drafted in 1978 by Montreal, and the Habs also drafted Tretiak in 1983!.....Anton Stastny was picked in 1978 by the Flyers....so not totally unreasonable! HaHa

[gambia_boy]

teams will end up wasting high draft picks on Russians they end up being unable to sign.....negative - a bit unrealistic.

What about Radulov?

[nino33]

What about Radulov?

This database is "set" in 1974, and it trys to recreate the "flavour" of the late 1970s into the 1980s era of hockey; at start-up it has "real life" players as young as 3 years old (born in 1971)..........Radulov was born in 1986, and his hockey career occurs in the 2000s...so the example/applicability of Radulov doesn't really apply IMO



Basically IRL Swedes/Finns began coming over more and more in the late 1970s into the 1980s, and the same should occur in general with the 1974 db (computer created newgens/regens will also be part of the mix!)

While IRL Russians didn't start coming to North America until the end of the 1980s, the longest contract that can be given in EHM is 11 years, and Russian "stars of the era" all have 11 year contracts (Tretiak, Yakushev, Maltsev, etc)..........practically that means with the most realistic results one could hope for, "the Russian Invasion" will likely began after 11 years...the equivalent of it occuring IRL in 1985 instead of 1989 (and again, computer created newgens/regens will also be part of the mix!)

And I still haven't figured out what I'm doing with the Czech Republic and Slovakia (in the 1970s there was just Czechoslovakia!).....I've only got a small number of applicable historical players in the db at this point, and they're all "Czech Republic" (Holecek, Dzurilla, Hlinka, Bohuslav Stastny...and a few more) - once I get enough hitorical players entered it'll be easier to have two teams



Regards

[gambia_boy]

My point was that its not so unrealistic that you cannot sign them...

[nino33]

My point was that its not so unrealistic that you cannot sign them...

And my point was that that the modern comparison of Radulov (the 1% of top talent that stays in Russia nowadays) with the 1970s (99.9% stayed in Russia then) didn't seem applicable to me...

[archibalduk]

My point was that its not so unrealistic that you cannot sign them...

And my point was that that the modern comparison of Radulov (the 1% of top talent that stays in Russia nowadays) with the 1970s (99.9% stayed in Russia then) didn't seem applicable to me...

And like you said, once those 11 year contracts with the Russian stars run out in 1985, you'll likely start to see an increase in Russians coming over to the NHL (plus of course the regens). So that's pretty decent not only for the 1970s but also as you progress through the 1980s. So by the time you reach the 2000s there wouldn't be any issues in this respect.

[XenHL]

I know about Fetisov etc getting drafted already in 1978, but IIRC those were 11th, 12th etc late-round picks. Even if Larionov /would/ have been mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky and Lemieux had he played his whole career here, knowing the likelihood of signing him being minuscule, nobody would've wasted a first-round pick on him.

Regarding countries like Czechoslovakia, USSR, Yugoslavia... I think the ideal would be if a way could be found to edit what national team is in each division. That way, you could take "Czech Republic" as the "Czechoslovakia" team and put Slovakia with minimal stats down into the bottom division (where South Africa, North Korea etc are in the db), do the same with Russia for USSR, Serbia for Yugoslavia, etc.

Going further, perhaps there's a way to hack things a bit further like could be done in Championship Manager. If a way can be found to move national teams around by division, then I think from there it wouldn't be too difficult to make USSR, Yugoslavia, East Germany, Czechoslovakia etc. active, and make the current countries inactive...

If nothing else, perhaps a name-hack would be possible, wherein "Russia" would be renamed to "USSR" (with two 00 replacing the 'ia' part...) though this'd probably have to be done in the .exe via hex editing...

Anyways I think the simplest thing would be my first suggestion there, IF a way can be found to manipulate what countries are in what division.

Another option? Divide the players by ethnicity. So, Helmuts Balderis would be Latvian nationality, Peter Stastny would be Slovak, etc. This would weaken the national teams somewhat (maybe, but I doubt by a significant degree), but it may be something to consider.

[nino33]

I know about Fetisov etc getting drafted already in 1978, but IIRC those were 11th, 12th etc late-round picks.......nobody would've wasted a first-round pick on him.

Agreed! But I'm not so sure that in "EHM 74" a team actually wasted a high pick (as the screen I saw noted TWO NHL teams pursuing Yakushev)

Even if Larionov /would/ have been mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky and Lemieux had he played his whole career here, knowing the likelihood of signing him being minuscule, nobody would've wasted a first-round pick on him.

Agreed! And for me Larionov is mentioned in the same breath! I think some of my passion for details comes from the high regard I had/have for the European/Russian players of my childhood.....


I will say that for the foreseeable future "ease of play" will be the #1 consideration.......i.e. currently all the "Russian Youth" are on just two teams - this makes it MUCH easier for editing purposes, and much quicker/easier for those editing DOB/PA at start-up.....

[nino33]

Regarding countries like Czechoslovakia, USSR, Yugoslavia...

To be honest, I have many World Championships/Canada Cup/Olympic games from the 1970s and 1980s on DVD, plus I have IIHF Guides (just bought the 1981-82 IIHF Guide!) and Canada Cup Guides and the like.....these are the inspiration - and it's actually putting these to use that I want to do (I like watching/looking through them!) - so at this point (in addition to Canada and the US) I'm looking to have historical players from Finland, Sweden, Russia and the Czech Republic (Czechoslovakia)

ALSO thanks to another of Archi's little applications, the IIHF Rankings can be edited (but the edits only kick in after season one)......




Regards

[archibalduk]

Regarding the nations, the nation names can be changed in the database. I've never tried it myself, but I don't see why you couldn't rename Russia to USSR, etc. With regards to Czechoslovakia, you could change the Czech Rep to that nation and then set the Game Importance rating of Slovakia to 4 (which means they won't appear in any tournaments - presumably from season 2 onwards at least).

As Nino said, IIHF Rankings can be changed but they have no effect on the first season of international competitions because they're hardcoded. Some memory patching ala the CSD Patch would be needed in order to customise this.

[XenHL]

Archi: where can I find more info on this? I ask because I've long had a nagging little desire to manage North Korea and see if I can't A, survive a season in D1 without getting relegated and B, get up to the A pool...

[archibalduk]

Archi: where can I find more info on this? I ask because I've long had a nagging little desire to manage North Korea and see if I can't A, survive a season in D1 without getting relegated and B, get up to the A pool...

Heh that sounds like a Wightlink Raiders type of challenge!

As soon as I've tidied up the util that edits the nations, I'll upload it to the site. If you put the IIHF Ranking Score high enough then you should get the team into the WCs for the second season (I managed to achieve this with Ireland and Greece as a test).

[Manimal]

Archi: where can I find more info on this? I ask because I've long had a nagging little desire to manage North Korea and see if I can't A, survive a season in D1 without getting relegated and B, get up to the A pool...

Heh that sounds like a Wightlink Raiders type of challenge!

As soon as I've tidied up the util that edits the nations, I'll upload it to the site. If you put the IIHF Ranking Score high enough then you should get the team into the WCs for the second season (I managed to achieve this with Ireland and Greece as a test).

I know we're getting off-topic (sorry Nino) but will those national teams get playable? I thought there was a limit on the number of players you needed to get a nation playable

[nino33]

Regarding the nations, the nation names can be changed in the database. I've never tried it myself, but I don't see why you couldn't rename Russia to USSR, etc

Cool! I did not know this...

With regards to Czechoslovakia, you could change the Czech Rep to that nation and then set the Game Importance rating of Slovakia to 4 (which means they won't appear in any tournaments - presumably from season 2 onwards at least).

Very Cool! Didn't know this either!.....

we're getting off-topic (sorry Nino)

No worries at all! I love to learn...never know what might apply!



What all this really means is even more editing work!

[XenHL]

Regarding the renaming of nations: is this something that would need hex editing of the .exe to go along with the changes to the DB?

At that, I just remembered something - namely, that I have been successful at removing the Ottawa Senators from the NHL.

[nino33]

Well I've hit the wall, I've run out of gas.....I'm fighting a head cold, and I've lost all energy - I just can't get much more done this weekend, so...the database has been sent for testing!

While the 1974 db is still very much a work in progress, I believe it is now playable/testable!…..there is nothing specific I’m asking anyone to look for at this point. Just to “play it” how they want and let me know how it goes. I created a topic for feedback - I've already posted some comments there, and I’ll answer questions there too (I've also listed short term/long term project goals) http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... =13&t=9147


I really can't say for sure when a public release will occur.....I would think if testing goes well, maybe/likely early April........


Regards

[Moses Doughty]

Great to see it can finally be tested

[archibalduk]

Congratulations Nino! I'm so pleased all of your hardwork is paying off.

Regarding the renaming of nations: is this something that would need hex editing of the .exe to go along with the changes to the DB?

No I don't think so. I'm pretty certain you just edit the entries in nation.dat.

Come to think of it, with some creative editing, you could probably swap nations (e.g. Switzerland with Denmark or whatever you want) so that you could change the nationality of playable leagues. Some mass editing tool could then switch the nationalities of the players/records/etc so that Swiss players still appear as Swiss and Danish as Danish, etc. Sounds like an interesting project...

[XenHL]

Archi: there was a tool called Massswap for CM01/02 which could be used to do exactly that, it was part of a package meant exactly for league-swapping. It was a fairly tricky process that could be easily screwed up, but, it worked within limits: the structure of the league couldn't be changed, the name of the new playable country/competition/etc had to be the same number of letters as the old, etc.

The other thing was that there was plenty of hex editing of the .exe to do, too, so if you modded the game to replace say the playable Croatian league with a playable Bulgarian league, if you wanted to share it you'd have to share the modified .exe along with all the new database files. (For the record, in my example there, the two countries names would've ended up something like "Blgaria" and "Croattia"...)

I don't have any of these tools anymore but they're probably still out there somewhere.

This makes me wonder how many of the CM editing tools could be hacked into or at least used as an 'inspiration' for new EHM editing tools.

[MXD]

First comment, before I forget :

Pete Mahovlich could play C. Not as his main position, but certain better than "awkward" -- considering that's the position where he had the most success.

[nino33]

Pete Mahovlich could play C. Not as his main position, but certain better than "awkward" -- considering that's the position where he had the most success.

Thanks for the feedback MXD.....you are 100% right, and it is now fixed! (I don't remember Pete as anything but a C actually)

FYI - I've created a thread just for tester feedback
http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 05#p136505


Regards

[Malmsten83]

I did a small test regarding the issue about european players going to the NHL. This is what I did. (Did use Lidas 3.1 database, loaded NHL and Sweden)

In the editor I added "Future transfer" to three players on the team Färjestads BK. One was Jonas Brodin who is eligibe in the first draft (using Lidas 3.1 remember). I put a future transfer in 2020 for him to the exakt same team Färjestads BK. The second player was Per Åslund who was in his last year of his contract. For him I put in a future transfer in 2009. Marcus Paulsson was the last player. I jacked up every rating to 20 and the reputation to 200. The future transfer is set to happen in 2012 for him.

Over one year has passed by in the test and all the players are still on the Färjestads BKs roster. And the three guys all have a NHL release clause. A positive sign but I will continue the test a couple of seasons. Remember this is only three Swedish players but if the test is succesful it may be possible to do this to Russian players.

[nino33]

I know about Fetisov etc getting drafted already in 1978, but IIRC those were 11th, 12th etc late-round picks.......nobody would've wasted a first-round pick on him.

As I'm working on the database I almost always have some DVD hockey playing on a small TV in the background...right now it's Canada and the Czechs from the 1981 Canada Cup, and they just mentioned Jiří Dudáček (first ever Czech drafted in the 1st round)....Dudáček was drafted in the first round, 17th overall by Buffalo in 1981, but as wikipedia notes all efforts to get him out of the country legally were rebuffed, and Dudáček never did play in North America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ji%C5%99%C ... A1%C4%8Dek