EHM Realism Patch

[duff88]

I tried applying the patch on the Manimal 4.1 rosters. It reads 38173 entries, but writes only 1645. Is that normal?

[archibalduk]

I tried applying the patch on the Manimal 4.1 rosters. It reads 38173 entries, but writes only 1645. Is that normal?

Did you setup any filters?

[duff88]

I tried applying the patch on the Manimal 4.1 rosters. It reads 38173 entries, but writes only 1645. Is that normal?

Did you setup any filters?

No, I simply double clicked on the .exe file and this is what came up...

[bobmcgoo]

Just ran the editor on v4.1 and everything works fine (with 38173 read, 36103 written). Maybe redownload the scoring patch files and try again? I agree with Archi that it sounds like some filters have been changed in the Excel file.

Also, for anyone interested, v4.1 seems to work just as well with this patch as v4.0, so there's no issues there.

[archibalduk]

I tried applying the patch on the Manimal 4.1 rosters. It reads 38173 entries, but writes only 1645. Is that normal?

Did you setup any filters?

No, I simply double clicked on the .exe file and this is what came up...

Hmm... I've been taking a look back at the code for the tool to remind me of how it works. The read and write numbers won't be the same. This is a mistake on my part. The "write" number relates to the number of records updated and not the number of entries written. I need to correct that when I find some time.

If you check the file sizes of your original file and the newly created file, you should find that they are identical (and therefore the tool worked successfully).

[Alessandro]

So, someone tried it, how is it doing in Europe??

[Alessandro]

Ok, no replies. I think I'll try to run this overnight then have a look at European leagues. I'll let u know

[archibalduk]

Let us know how you get on, Alessandro. I'm really interested to see what effect the patch has on the wider hockey world.

I think you're right - nobody has really tested this aspect thus far.

[Alessandro]

After some simming I have to say that the results are very interesting. Leagues with notorious scoring problems (Russian, Swedish leagues) now have way more realism, but I simmed not enough. I will go on.

[Alessandro]

After a bit more simming, I think it might get still some work on goalies, but overall the patch works great.

[bobmcgoo]

That's really interesting. I would have tested European leagues but I have no idea what "normal" scoring for those leagues is. Good to hear it works for them too. Have you tested other NA leagues such as AHL, ECHL...?

I think it might get still some work on goalies

What do you mean by this?

[Alessandro]

That's really interesting. I would have tested European leagues but I have no idea what "normal" scoring for those leagues is. Good to hear it works for them too. Have you tested other NA leagues such as AHL, ECHL...?

I think it might get still some work on goalies

What do you mean by this?

Goalies save percentage is still a bit low

[nino33]

Goalies save percentage is still a bit low

What database did you use for the test? Just wondering because I know the latest Manimal rosters updates goaltenders in NA, Europe and Russia...

[bobmcgoo]

That's really interesting. I would have tested European leagues but I have no idea what "normal" scoring for those leagues is. Good to hear it works for them too. Have you tested other NA leagues such as AHL, ECHL...?

I think it might get still some work on goalies

What do you mean by this?

Goalies save percentage is still a bit low

Is it bad enough to stop you wanting to use the patch? The problem with .only. save percentage being low is that it is difficult to raise only one stat. If I make goaltenders better, scorers score less. Really I'd need somehow to make skaters have more shots that don't go in. I have a few ideas, so i;'ll try them out.

Also I'm half-working on another project to get lighter players to play as well as heavier players... here's my screenshots so far:



Getting Marty St. Louis to finally play better than Nik Antropov is justification that something is working! Note players like Giroux, Kane, Roy, Datsyuk, Visnovsky, Kulikov, Ekman-Larsson... But it does seem to make scoring a bit too low (not sure why) so i'm still making changes. Also, Oreskovich is there because I missed editing his weight.

@Archi, if this project interests you, would you be able to add weight changes to the mass player editor? It would be hugely appreciated, but again, please only if you can find the time.

[nino33]

Great work!
Thanks much for your efforts at making a great game even better

[Manimal]

How are you getting lighter players to perform better than heavier? Please explain a little on what you are doing. It would help me decide on future research and inputting

[Alessandro]

That's really interesting. I would have tested European leagues but I have no idea what "normal" scoring for those leagues is. Good to hear it works for them too. Have you tested other NA leagues such as AHL, ECHL...?


Is it bad enough to stop you wanting to use the patch?

Absolutely not, I think the patch is great and it does add value to the game. I used our UUDB, a bit of a half-ass test because our db is in a heavy WIP status, but still. With your patch finally we had only 1-2 players over PPG in the KHL/SEL, opposite to the usual 10 to 20. Now there are about 15 goalies with more than .900 in the same leagues, opposite to the usual 3-4.
Great job so far.

[archibalduk]

@Archi, if this project interests you, would you be able to add weight changes to the mass player editor? It would be hugely appreciated, but again, please only if you can find the time.

Wow; fantastic work!

I'll work on the Mass Player Editor as a priority (I've finished the Player Info Generator other than finalising the league category lists so I've got time). I can add weight changes no problem. Do you need/want any filters to apply to weight changes?

I think I'll rewrite the whole Editor from scratch so it's a little easier to update and use (but after I've added your weight editing bit).

[archibalduk]

Bobmcgoo: Just to clarify - do you want to edit weight or filter by weight?

[bobmcgoo]

@ Manimal, Archi: All I did was set all forwards to 91kg and all dmen to 95kg. So hopefully the editor would basically have something like:
Set all forwards to X weight
Set all dmen to Y weight
It wouldn't need to be based on any filters as I imagine that every league has this disadvantage to lighter players. Thanks a lot Archi =)

I'm still looking at what effects this has in the game, though. First impression is it completely randomises who gets how many hits (not surprising). Not too optimistic an ideal solution can be found but I'm happy to try.

[archibalduk]

Aha I see what you mean. I'll see if I can started on it tonight.

I wonder whether reducing a player's physical attributes in proportion to his height and weight would be a viable alternative solution.

[Manimal]

Regharding goalies, have you seen Daelh's work?
http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... =13&t=8276

[Smetana]

Adjusting the CA and PA for goalies is a quick fix for scoring, and it definitely has an impact on realism. However, it does nothing for the real problem. The problem isn't that goalies aren't good enough or that scorers are too good, it's the power plays. I gave this attribute editor a try, using the default values already present, and was impressed with the results in the goal scoring department. Accurate scoring, accurate PP opportunuties, nicely done.

Now the problem that remains is that there isn't enough fighting. PIM totals are way too low, and I'd like to address that. Any ideas on how we might tackle this problem?

[bobmcgoo]

Adjusting the CA and PA for goalies is a quick fix for scoring, and it definitely has an impact on realism. However, it does nothing for the real problem. The problem isn't that goalies aren't good enough or that scorers are too good, it's the power plays. I gave this attribute editor a try, using the default values already present, and was impressed with the results in the goal scoring department. Accurate scoring, accurate PP opportunuties, nicely done.

Now the problem that remains is that there isn't enough fighting. PIM totals are way too low, and I'd like to address that. Any ideas on how we might tackle this problem?

Unfortunately I don't think there is any way to do this. PIMs are directly linked almost exclusively to aggression (I'm not sure what the agitation and dirtiness stats are there for but they have at most a tiny small effect on PIM numbers - in the same way the hitting attribute seems completely irrelevant to how good a player is at hitting, or how many hits he tries/gets). I think, given the game mechanics which we can't change, that the problem is a simple choice: either you have realistic fighting and too many powerplays or you have realistic number of powerplays and too few fights. With all due respect, the number of power plays was not the reason scoring was too high, in fact teams actually score more goals when powerplays are lowered (confusing I know!) As nino suggested, I tried editing referee stats, but for some reason the game changes most of the referees in the NHL at the end of the first season to referees that don't exist in the database. So even if editing referees to make them more lenient worked, it would work for one season only. AND even if you did this correctly, scoring would be unrealistic again.

Having said all that, I've just thought of an idea which might work so give me a few hours and I'll get back to you =D

[Alessandro]

I like how the patch works now the best
We'll use this for the next UUDB version