1974db Testing Results/Feedback

[Moses Doughty]

Ill also support CeeBees post, and for some reason San Diegos goalies do really good even with lower stats.

[CeeBee]

Another list of too highly rated players....Either too many green attributes or the wrong ones IMO. Some players need more tweaking than others I believe. The more recognizable players like Hodge, Greschner, Boldirev and Lemaire etc. tend to be close but just a bit too strong compared to teamates like Esposito, Mikita, Lafleur etc.
Jacque Lemaire
Ken Hodge
Clark Gillies
Bobby Lalonde
Ed Van Impe
Juha Widing
Bob Paradise
Brian Spencer
John Schella
Kevin Morrison
Dave Forbes
Rick Dudley
Danny Lawson
John McKenzie
Dave Hrechkosy
Joey Johnston
Larry Patey
Ivan Boldirev
Jim Pappin
Ken Baird
John Arbour
Bob Gainey
Pete Mahovlich
Pete Stemkowski
Ron Greschner
Dave Maloney
Ted Irvine
Sheldon Kannegiesser
Joe Watson
Gary Dornhoefer
Vic Hadfield
Real Cloutier
Bob Neely
Tommy Williams
Curt Bennett
Andre Savard
Mike Robitaille
Robin Burns
Ted Taylor
Gord Labossiere

Next I'll do check for under-rated players.

[XenHL]

Some things I noticed:

Found an all-caps name: Leo LUCKNER

A couple of birthday discrepancies:

- Vladimir Bednar, in the list you gave me, his birthday is 23 May 1980; in the game db, it's 1 October 1980

- Ivan Hlinka, in your list, 5 February 1982; in the game db, it's 26 January 1982

- Bohuslav Stastny, in your list, 16 June 1981; in the game db, it's 23 April 1981.

I know birthdates aren't a hugely important thing, but which shall I go with for the picture files?

BTW, all NHL contracted players and all the Europeans (with the three above exceptions) are now done and ready! Working on the college players now.

[nino33]

Thanks to all for the "overrated players feedback" - I'll be incorporating the feedback recieved into my editing

Vladimir Bednar, in the list you gave me, his birthday is 23 May 1980; in the game db, it's 1 October 1980
- Ivan Hlinka, in your list, 5 February 1982; in the game db, it's 26 January 1982
- Bohuslav Stastny, in your list, 16 June 1981; in the game db, it's 23 April 1981.
I know birthdates aren't a hugely important thing, but which shall I go with for the picture files?

I checked on the hockeyDB site and the in-game DOBs are correct (and should be used).....I'm guessing at some point I had them wrong, and then corrected them in-game while forgetting to update the spreadsheet

BTW, all NHL contracted players and all the Europeans (with the three above exceptions) are now done and ready! Working on the college players now

Fantastic!

[XenHL]

College players and FAs done, moving on to major junior.

There are two Bob Fitchners, same birthdate etc, one under contract to the Edmonton Oilers, the other a free agent.

[nino33]

two Bob Fitchners, same birthdate etc, one under contract to the Edmonton Oilers, the other a free agent.

I don't recall doing so, but we must have caught this one already as I just checked and the Free Agent Bob Fitchner (now) shows as Retired



FYI - I've updated the "things to do" lists (first post of this thread)




I copied this from the 1974 db thread to include it here in the Testing Results/Feedback thread....

One thing I've noticed is that the WHL moved league is acting like a regular league though the teams I looked at have a lot of players older than junior age but they seem to have stats and everything.

Well that's not what I want! The "Club Status" for all the teams is "Invalid" so I thought I'd be OK (I'm guessing OHL Moved and QMJHL Moved are the same).......For test version 0.2 I'll just make the teams "Not Assigned" (Club Status - Amateur & Division/Other Division blank) like the defunct team names that are in the database

Thanks much for all your feedback CeeBee!

[nino33]

all the Europeans (with the three above exceptions) are now done and ready!

Hi XenHL! I'm currently going through European Leagues and adjusting/increasing contract length and I think I "found" another historical European, I don't think he was on the list I sent you..... C/LW Peter Ihnacak, DOB 3-May-1989 playing for Praha Sp; starts with a 1986 Birth Year, ideally to be adjusted to 1989 after start-up

[nino33]

the Grand Rapids Griffins name shows up just as Grand in the boxscore

The "Nickname" section in the Editor was blank, maybe this is the problem....I've inputted Griffins into the Nickname section (a handful of other AHL teams were similarly without a Nickname....now fixed)

The nickname section I've found is usually empty (and I've left it empty in my DBs without issue). In fact, I've never seen the nickname field have any actual in-game effect. The name used in boxscores and player stats pages is taken from the "short name" field. What was in there before?

The full name of "Grand Rapids Griffins" was/is in both the Name field and the Short Name field...

[XenHL]

The full name of "Grand Rapids Griffins" was/is in both the Name field and the Short Name field...

Right.

I suspect that's why it cut off - perhaps it was too long. Try either "Grand Rapids" or "Griffins", either of those I suspect would work.

[nino33]

I went with Grand Rapids....

[CeeBee]

Players who should be better. I looked at their in-game attributes, their real life stats and the 74-75 game stats.
First group need to be a lot better IMO:
Ralph Backstrom
Don Lever
Stan Mikita(mostly physical attributes)
Al McDonough
Paul Henderson
Bobby Orr(pre-injury he was amazing) and I think he should be that way
Rick Martin
Mickey Redmond

Need to be a fair bit better:
Gerry Meehan
Garry Jarrett
Rick Ley
Bill Fairbairn
Greg Polis
Mike Laughton
Ted Green

Need a little boost at least:
Murry Oliver
Don Awrey
Keith Magnuson
Brad Selwood
Bobby Guindon
Rey Comeau

Thanks

[nino33]

Thanks so much CeeBee!

[nino33]

Players that are too good offensively in my game:
Frank Hughes
Larry Lund
Andre Hinse
Ron Schock
Andre Boudrias
Jim Boyd
Bob Bourne
Germain Gagnon
Gavin Kirk
Hugh Harris
Veli-Pekka Ketola
Mike Bloom
Bob Kelly
Dick Sentes
Bob Hess

Hi CeeBee...did you mean Bob Kelly of the Flyers or Bob Kelly of the Penguins? or both?

[CeeBee]

The Bob Kelly born in Ranea, Sweden (Fort William. Ont).... ahem.... the penguin who had 36 goals, 50 assists and 86 points and a few too many green/high attributes as far as my memory remembers
Actually upon further looking at hockey-reference.com he actually had 27 and 25 goal seasons after a couple of ordinary seasons so maybe he isn't as over-rated as I thought?

[nino33]

Maybe his time in Sweden helped! HaHa
I'll take a closer look at him when I correct Birth City

[CeeBee]

While actually not admitting to forgetting there were 2 Bob Kelly's I certainly do remember Battleship Bob Kelly and Bob Hound dog Kelly. The Broadstreet Bullies "hound dog" came by his nickname honestly, at least in my memories. I can only guess that Battleship Bob got his name due to his size ?

[nino33]

I can only guess that Battleship Bob got his name due to his size ?

Makes sense!...I read the nicknames helped everyone differentiate the two in conversation...



I just updated the first post (lists of editing goals) again...here's what I'm looking to accomplish before test version 0.2
- Review and recreate as neccessary underage players (to ensure they can't be signed before draft eligibility ends) In-Progress (NA Players DONE)
- An initial review/edit of historical Player Attributes In-Progress
- An initial review/edit of historical Staff Attributes
- Review/edit team colour schemes for NHL/AHL/Major Junior DONE
- Increase Contract Length & edit Adaptability/Loyalty of "modern" Europeans/Russians In-Progress
- Add NHL Team Rookie Records DONE
- Add additional historical players to the AHL (the “non-stars”)
- Review/Edit AHL Staff and Arenas In-Progress
- Change Invalid Staff to Retired (so they don't reappear in-game) In-Progress


Also…because there's going to be at least a test version 0.2 I removed the "V0.1" from the thread title


Regards

[CeeBee]

I know you're still working on staff for both the NHL and AHL so maybe this question has already been taken care of. I'm just past the draft and heading into the summer after season one. I've checked all the NHL teams and they have a reasonable to full compliment of staff. However the AHL is a different story. No team except mine have much staff at all. Most teams have no scouts and only 1 assistant coach. I did notice that all season long NHL teams were poaching my AHL staff so I'm wondering if there is a shortage of staff in general? Is this why AHL teams don't have many staff or is it because the version we are testing didn't have many AHL staff on the various teams and there isn't much of a pool to sign from? It's not a big issue but inquiring minds want to know

One other question. I presume you have eliminated free agents? I'm not to July 1st yet but I checked for expiring contracts/upcoming UFA type 3's and one name appeared. John McKenzie (Cowboys). I should hit July 1st in an hour or so and will check again to see what things look like regarding free agents.

[CeeBee]

Because of the 17 year old's being free agents the first year player draft is rather bad. Anyway, I'm in the 6th round and it's only going downhill when i notice Sergey Kapustin on the list. I also notice he has a 10? year contract with his Russian team. I drafted him anyway just to see what would happen and wouldn't you know it. He agreed to sign with me and the deal has gone through. I had offered Peter Stastny a contract in May and it didn't go through so I'm trying again to see what will happen.

[CeeBee]

Stastny's deal keeps falling through so thats working fine.He accepts only to get a message that the next transfer window is the current date and the deal doesn't happen. McKenzie was the only UFA of note and he signed to coach in the AHL. He wouldn't sign to play with or coach on my NHL team.

[nino33]

I'm wondering if there is a shortage of staff in general?

There probably is somewhat of a "staff shortage" at this point in time....there are simply not even close to enough historical Staff available to use to fill out the HUGE modern Staff Rosters & the main reason I Retired a lot of the "modern" Staff is because they are actually players in 1974!........I'm doing the best I can for now, and in the future (summer?) hopefully I'll be able to "create" more historical Staff (one of the challenges I'm now running into looking at the AHL is some of the historical Coaches/Scouts that I "created" for the NHL were actually GMs/Coaches in the AHL in 1974)

In 1974 very few teams had even one Assistant Coach, most teams only had a handful of Scouts, very few teams had a Director of Personnel or an Assistant GM.....and the game does seem to "require" some of these positions to be filled

I suspect that NHL Scouts may be where a lot of poached Staff are going....Manimal 4.0 starts with 385 NHL Scouts, the 1974 db starts with 138
In the NHL Manimal 4.0 has 43 Directors of Personnel, the 1974 db has currently has 0
In the NHL Manimal 4.0 starts with 139 Assistant Coaches, the 1974 db starts with 98 (68 Assistant Coaches and 30 Player/Coaches)
In the AHL Manimal 4.0 has 43 Assistant Coaches, and the 1974 db currently has 16
In the AHL Manimal 4.0 starts with 6 Scouts, and the 1974 db has 0


The game seems to make a lot of decisions regarding both Players and Staff based on Reputation.....when Archi's completed some work on his Attribute Editor tool I should be able to make Reputation edits in mass, and I may be able to better address these issues

i notice Sergey Kapustin on the list. I also notice he has a 10? year contract with his Russian team. I drafted him anyway just to see what would happen and wouldn't you know it. He agreed to sign with me and the deal has gone through. I had offered Peter Stastny a contract in May and it didn't go through so I'm trying again to see what will happen.

FYI I've done a lot of work on the Europeans/Russians since the release of test version 0.1 (work I did and lost last summer/fall).....the ten year contract is because the maximum contract length the game allows at start-up is 11 years (and I'm trying to keep the Russians in Russia if they never played in NA)

I presume you have eliminated free agents?

Not on purpose, but I did set NHL contract length based on time with the team, so only historical players who left their team after 1974-75 will have their contact expiring.....and because the Player Info tab was not yet updated (it is now) most players lack the pro experience to be considered true Free Agents.......and I've increased Management Patience while decreasing Interference (hopefully making Management more willing to resign players before their contracts expire).......I suspect the adding of Player Info tab data & historical players to the AHL will help

Stastny's deal keeps falling through so thats working fine.He accepts only to get a message that the next transfer window is the current date and the deal doesn't happen. McKenzie was the only UFA of note and he signed to coach in the AHL. He wouldn't sign to play with or coach on my NHL team

That's what's been happening in my testing too.......some players won't sign at all, others sign but the deals never seems to actually go through

[nino33]

- An initial review/edit of historical Player Attributes In-Progress

Wow the Attributes are getting quite the makeover! I just thought I'd note I'm doing a fairly thorough review, and making some significant edits.....reviewing the overrated/underrated players was the inspiration/motivation I needed and now I'm bringing up the CA of the many NHL players who were rated as poor AHLers, ensuring players who weren't known as fast don't have 17-19 for Acceleration/Pace, ensuring the OFF and DEF roles are reasonable, ensuring fringe historical players don't have 17-19 for Consistency, ensuring Reputation essentially matches CA (often it was way off), ensuring secondary Positions are reasonable, and much much more!

Back to work!

[Manimal]

For reputation, I am still using a formula LIdas set up before me.

Home Rep = CA
Current Rep = CA -5
World Rep = CA -20

It works pretty good for me.
I know you are lowering the european's rep so they're staying in Europe

[CeeBee]

- An initial review/edit of historical Player Attributes In-Progress

Wow the Attributes are getting quite the makeover! I just thought I'd note I'm doing a fairly thorough review, and making some significant edits.....reviewing the overrated/underrated players was the inspiration/motivation I needed and now I'm bringing up the CA of the many NHL players who were rated as poor AHLers, ensuring players who weren't known as fast don't have 17-19 for Acceleration/Pace, ensuring the OFF and DEF roles are reasonable, ensuring fringe historical players don't have 17-19 for Consistency, ensuring Reputation essentially matches CA (often it was way off), ensuring secondary Positions are reasonable, and much much more!

Back to work!

SweeeeT!!!! Can't wait to pla.....er test the updated database

[nino33]

Hello testers!
Now that you've been playing a bit, and the game has "stabilized" I'm wondering how many Staff do AHL teams have? And what type of Staff do they have?


Non-Player Staff can be.......

Chairman
Managing Director
President
Director of Personnel
GM
Assistant GM
Head Coach
Scout
Physio

I'm asking as I'd like to only focus on those Staff the game seems to require....do all teams have at least a Chairman or President? Are Managing Director & Director of Personnel positions filled? In my previous testing Asistant GMs seem required for NHL teams, are they for AHL teams? How many Assistant Coaches do AHL teams have? How many Scouts? THANKS MUCH!


So I know "what's what" I'm currently compiling in excel a list of all players/staff connected to an AHL team and some basic Attribute data (then I'll know who to overwrite).....then I'll use my previous work compiling historical minor pro rosters (in notebooks) and some Guides I have and the hockeyDB site and I'll add historIcal minor pro players!


So right now I'm bouncing around between the different tasks I'm currently working on (yesterday more work was done on NHL Player Attributes than anything else, today it seems it's AHL Rosters that are getting the most attention!).....trying to get as much done this week (Spring Break) as possible