1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[Manimal]

Strange....I have them selected as Standard along with most of the leagues and they have decent sized squads, but I guess that's free agents they have signed. I'm in November, so I bet that's the case.

They're real players? Not grey players?

Same here. The ECHL starts to sign players

[nino33]

Strange....I have them selected as Standard along with most of the leagues and they have decent sized squads, but I guess that's free agents they have signed. I'm in November, so I bet that's the case.

They're real players? Not grey players?

Same here. The ECHL starts to sign players

Cool...maybe the European/Russian Elite Leagues will sign players too

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Hey Nino, I've stumbled across a few things that need tweaking (for instance, Randy Carlyle seems to be missing, Tony Hand's age is incorrect, etc). Are you compiling this somewhere for a future revision or is this it?

[nino33]

Hey Nino, I've stumbled across a few things that need tweaking (for instance, Randy Carlyle seems to be missing, Tony Hand's age is incorrect, etc). Are you compiling this somewhere for a future revision or is this it?

I think this is it!

I can't believe I missed Randy Carlyle!
Tony Hand's a modern player and thus has been deleted (I can't just edit him/change his age as I don't yet have anywhere for a non-NA to play as a 7 year old)


Here's my in-progress list (word doc) of what I've done/need to do for version 1.1...

1974db1.1 Changes
- Corrected Henry Boucha’s player history (typo of 253 assists corrected, thereby fixing NHL Points in a Season Record)
- Modern player Jaroslav Balastik retired/deleted (he was missed; he was connected to the defunct Columbus Blue jackets); Need to delete retired players!
- Need to "mass edit" the Height/Weight of players age 1-12 (players grow to big)
- Need to review/edit non-NA Staff ("remove" modern Staff who have a CA/PA above 100)
- ALSO need to add thanks to testers in Read Me
- AND are there two Camille Henry’s??? Do I need to delete one?
- AND there ARE two Earl Ingarfield’s…I need to delete one
- AND there ARE two Gilles Leger’s…I need to delete one
- AND add Randy Carlyle to the Sudbury Wolves

FYI I'm going to do some testing regarding Height/Weight development (previous testing I've done started at age twelve...now I'm starting at age one!)



Regards

[nickflyers]

Players grow to big? Ah balls....

[nino33]

Players grow to big? Ah balls....

I agree...I'm working on it!

These are players who are in diapers at start up! I hadn't tested such young players before (previous testing results http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 110&t=8146), and from what I understand it seems their development/growth may be different than what young teenager development/growth is...

Actually, right at this moment I'm populating the spreadsheet of initial data before I begin testing a new set of Height/Weight values for the really young (i.e. I've already made the edits! and now I'm about to begin testing) - In addition to learning more about Height/Weight development (from very young ages) I'm also curious to see how CA develops over twenty years


I'm working on it!

[Habsfan88]

First off, I just want to say thank you so much for all of the hard work. I've been playing the DB non-stop since its release. I did want to bring up a few things though.

1. Scoring seems to be very low, especially considering the era. I'm noticing that around 7 goaltenders each year, with at least 50 games played, are finishing with a GAA under 2.00. Also, many teams are finishing the season with 130-150 goals for, which is definitely unrealistic, especially when you consider this was the 70's.

2. I'm noticing that many young prospects have very low technical attributes, while their physical and mental attributes seem fairly high. I'm not sure if this was done on purpose, but it's something I've noticed. Mike Bossy for instance, isn't really progressing when it comes to his technical attributes, and I've noticed that this is happening to some others. Again, this may have been done purposely, and maybe they are just progressing slowly?

3. Many young European prospects end up having awful attributes (especially technical). I'm looking at guys like Pell Lindbergh, Sergei Makarov, Kjell Samuelsson, and Mats Naslund who are between the ages of 16 and 19 right now in my DB, and their attributes are brutal. In their report cards their potentials seem wayy low as well. C- and D+ I'm seeing. These guys should be considered much better prospects, IMO.

Again though, fantastic job on the DB. I appreciate the work you've put into it.

[nino33]

1. Scoring seems to be very low, especially considering the era. I'm noticing that around 7 goaltenders each year, with at least 50 games played, are finishing with a GAA under 2.00. Also, many teams are finishing the season with 130-150 goals for, which is definitely unrealistic, especially when you consider this was the 70's.

It may be that scoring is to low (I wanted to "error on the side of defense, not offense")...130-150 goals is certainly low, but many WHA teams (and some NHL) are realistically very weak teams...the mid 1970s in the NHL was IMO a very defensive era, and I wanted to simulate this (knowing it'll likely get more offensive naturally) - but I for sure thought defense first, knowing it's easy to edit more offense in (and I can edit a bit more offense in, but I do want to mod the defensive NHL style and not the wide open WHA style)

. I'm noticing that many young prospects have very low technical attributes, while their physical and mental attributes seem fairly high. I'm not sure if this was done on purpose, but it's something I've noticed. Mike Bossy for instance, isn't really progressing when it comes to his technical attributes, and I've noticed that this is happening to some others. Again, this may have been done purposely, and maybe they are just progressing slowly?

This was 100% done on purpose!

FYI It was a 1976 database at first, and so I had the 1975/1976 Drafts already connected to NHL teams...IRL in the mid 1970s few 18 year olds were drafted (the "Draft Age" was basically 20)...and I wanted as many players connected to their IRL NHL teams as possible, so I left the 1975/1976 Drafts "connected" (plus I wanted NHL teams to have some "unsigned prospects")...but these players shouldn't be in the NHL right away

Bossy for example...IRL in the fall of 1974 (i.e. at the time of game start-up) Bossy was playing in the QMJHL, and he didn't join the NHL until 1977! Three years after game start-up! So if he's progressing at a normal pace it should be on 2009 in-game that he'd "realistically" join the NHL...

3. Many young European prospects end up having awful attributes (especially technical). I'm looking at guys like Pell Lindbergh, Sergei Makarov, Kjell Samuelsson, and Mats Naslund who are between the ages of 16 and 19 right now in my DB, and their attributes are brutal. In their report cards their potentials seem wayy low as well. C- and D+ I'm seeing. These guys should be considered much better prospects, IMO.

Feel free to edit them yourself if you want, but this too is "on purpose" (I almost deleted them and don't want to make them better at start-up)...Lindbergh joined the NHL IRL in 1981, which is 7 years after game start-up!...Naslund joined the NHL IRL in 1982, which is 8 years after game start-up...so I've purposely set them low and won't be changing that; if they’re progressing at a normal rate they should enter the NHL in 2013/2014 (and to be honest if they never develop I’m fine with that)

The fact that European/Russian players can be signed away by NHL teams even if they have a valid contract (with no NHL Release Clause!)…the fact that European/Russian contracts are essentially meaningless in EHM was greatly disappointing to me…I was never trying to create the modern hockey world, and have no desire/intention to do so with the 1974 database

Again though, fantastic job on the DB. I appreciate the work you've put into it.

Thanks!

[Primis]

Finally starting a real game with this. Looks good. I selected the ECHL (Standard) at startup and have noticed no problems. Don't know what others are seeing or doing to get errors.

I *do* have no idea what I'm doing though. This is before my time and kinda' a Dark Ages for me as to player familiarity aside from the big names. I did fine with the 1979 DB but... 5 years apparently makes a world of difference.

For the record, I tried signing Tretiak and Kharlamov. I could not get Kharlamov no matter what I did. I really had to work to get Tretiak finally.

It certainly does have a different feel though. It's not just different names, and that's a good thing.

[nino33]

It certainly does have a different feel though. It's not just different names, and that's a good thing.

That's really good to hear!

And to me this is only the beginning!
I've been "painting with broad strokes" in many cases with the editing, and have always intended on further refinement.
To manage such an enormous project the editing has to be done in stages...always improving, adding to and making further refinements

I'm already working on version 1.1

For the record, I tried signing Tretiak and Kharlamov. I could not get Kharlamov no matter what I did. I really had to work to get Tretiak finally.

If you can please let me know how Tretiak does for you...I'm curious if the 1 for Adaptability will maybe cause poor play and/or poor morale when in NA

[Primis]

For the record, I tried signing Tretiak and Kharlamov. I could not get Kharlamov no matter what I did. I really had to work to get Tretiak finally.

If you can please let me know how Tretiak does for you...I'm curious if the 1 for Adaptability will maybe cause poor play and/or poor morale when in NA

I signed him to DET (who I'm trying to rescue). So far he's gone 8-2-0 (though he's been yanked early in the 2 losses and played quite poorly), 2.04 GAA. His morale seems fine so far. Mickey Redmond got hurt longterm though and 2 of those losses came in like the 4 games since he got hurt, team has really struggled with him out. Team depth in this DB is a fickle thing.

His Consistency is 11 I think, so I figure that combined with the Adaptability you mentioned means he's probably either On or Off for an individual game, and when he's "Off" he's pretty bad.

I'm curious to see if language issues eventually derail things. He speaks Russian fluently, and absolutely nothing else even Basic, that was my main concern. His Technical attributes and his Determination and Anticipation are just so good though... we'll see. I'll post an update on him later on after more time.

[leafsnation]

Love the database!! One thing I've found is I'm having trouble signing Marian Stastny. He would agree, then I would get error, something like..."the signing period has closed, the next opportunity will be..." and it shows the next day's date, then it continues to repeat. Not sure what this would be, and my apologies for not having the correct verbage on the news item that comes up.

[nino33]

Love the database!!

Good!

I'm having trouble signing Marian Stastny

To me this is good news!

The 1974 database is really for NHL play...the historical players in the AHL/CHL as well as Major Junior and College hockey, as well as the hundreds of kids on minor hockey, are all created for use with the NHL

- the 1974 database was originally Pens66 1979-80 database, which included historical Russians from the 1980 Olympics
- I added some additional historical Swedes/Finns/Czechs (there are around 100 historical "overseas players" in the database at start-up)
- I had intended to eventually add many hundreds/thousands more historical Europeans/Russians...
- I wanted the historical Europeans/Russians in the database, but I wanted them playing in Europe/Russia!
- In testing it as found that "weirdness" occurred, and European/Russian contracts don't necessarily keep players in Europe/Russia
- As a result of the above, I stopped creating such players

In addition to not creating any more players, I lowered the Adaptability/Reputation and increased the Loyalty of the overseas players
Also, I severely reduced the starting CA/Atts of the few young historical Europeans/Russians in the database

Everytime someone is actually able to sign a historical European/Russian they are doing so despite my best efforts to make it not possible!


FYI My next "project" (that I've already started on) is a 1994 database, and that will be a very different database - it will be "modern" and there will be no attempts to keep Russians/Europeans in Russia/Europe

[nino33]

Team depth in this DB is a fickle thing.

It's really not been addressed yet!

Team depth will improve some in the future with the further editing of the AHL/CHL...I've only gone through about 15% of the historical AHL/CHL players - when I review/edit them further I not only connect them to NHL teams when applicable but I also edit CA/PA and Atts

[bruins72]

I was just looking in the DB and noticed that I couldn't find Mike Eruzione. I looked for a few of the other Mircale on Ice guys and found them. Just no Rizzo.

[nino33]

I was just looking in the DB and noticed that I couldn't find Mike Eruzione. I looked for a few of the other Mircale on Ice guys and found them. Just no Rizzo.

You are correct! He's not in the database
I suspect he's never been in the database, as he never actually played an NHL game (and retired after the Olympics)...
He's now on the "list of things to fix" - thanks!

[XenHL]

Love the database!! One thing I've found is I'm having trouble signing Marian Stastny. He would agree, then I would get error, something like..."the signing period has closed, the next opportunity will be..." and it shows the next day's date, then it continues to repeat. Not sure what this would be, and my apologies for not having the correct verbage on the news item that comes up.

I've had this exact same issue from the first beta test I played. That error about the transfer window being closed and will reopen on <the next day in-game!>. I got curious and tried many other Europeans, but of the ones I tried, ONLY Marian Stastny has this issue.

Which sucks if you're hoping to get the three brothers together, like the Nordiques did!

[Primis]

Team depth in this DB is a fickle thing.

It's really not been addressed yet!

Team depth will improve some in the future with the further editing of the AHL/CHL...I've only gone through about 15% of the historical AHL/CHL players - when I review/edit them further I not only connect them to NHL teams when applicable but I also edit CA/PA and Atts

I actually wasn't complaining. To me this is how the 1974 DB *should* feel. A 4th liner today, IMO, is closer in ability and skill to a 1st liner today than a 4th liner would have been compared to a 1st liner in 74. One or two injuries really *should* wreck a team, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions.

By the way... I over-enjoy going through the young prospect teams and seeing them all together. 8 year old Steve Yzerman playing on a team with Cam Neely, Ron Hextall, Steve Duchesne, Kevin Stevens, etc? Fun times.

[nino33]

A 4th liner today, IMO, is closer in ability and skill to a 1st liner today than a 4th liner would have been compared to a 1st liner in 74. One or two injuries really *should* wreck a team, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions.

Not in my opinion! HaHa


IMO IRL mediocrity is being hyped up to be parity...allow the top teams to sign/keep players and watch how quickly the weaker teams/players are exposed - the top teams nowadays IMO are nowhere near as good as top teams from the 1970s/1980s - it would cost way beyond the Salary Cap to put together a late 70s Habs team (Dryden, Savard, Lapointe, Robinson, Lafleur, Shutt and more), an early 80s Islanders team (Smith, Potvin, Trottier, Bossy, Gillies, Goring and more) or a mid 80s Oilers team (Fuhr, Coffey, Lowe, Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, and more) - and all these teams did it year after year, not a Cup and done like most modern teams - when I was a kid winning just once and then disappearing as a Cup threat made you a "fluke" team, not a team to be respected (and a decent season or two with a weak, non-playoff team didn't get you thought of/paid as an elite player!)...but this is just my opinion!



In regards to EHM, I think a modern database could be edited to reduce the offensive ratings and increase the defensive ratings and you'd see ("feel") similar results IMO...the biggest difference in the Attribute ratings I gave are I think in the 3rd/4th liners...I've always wondered if players were overrated offensively in EHM, and if maybe this resulted in the "overly offensive/too much scoring in EHM" concerns (it seems maybe the high octane offense is not intrinsic to the game, it can be edited out...and then one or two injuries could then really affect a team in a modern database too, as I think they often do IRL)...but this is just my opinion!

By the way... I over-enjoy going through the young prospect teams and seeing them all together. 8 year old Steve Yzerman playing on a team with Cam Neely, Ron Hextall, Steve Duchesne, Kevin Stevens, etc? Fun times.

Cool!

[nino33]

Team depth in this DB is a fickle thing.

It's really not been addressed yet!

Team depth will improve some in the future with the further editing of the AHL/CHL...I've only gone through about 15% of the historical AHL/CHL players - when I review/edit them further I not only connect them to NHL teams when applicable but I also edit CA/PA and Atts

I actually wasn't complaining.

FYI - I didn't take it as a complaint

But the 1974 db is an ongoing work in progress, and right now 85% of all AHL/CHL players have no connection to an NHL team + they have all have a PA of -5

If you took a "modern database" and disconnected 85% of the AHL/ECHL players from NHL teams + you gave 85% of the AHL/ECHL players a PA of -5 you might feel that modern database lacked depth! HaHa....

I'm hoping "fixing this" will be one of the improvements made when I release version 1.1

[Habsfan88]

Thanks for your response above nino!

An update on Bossy, 1 year later, and he's actually regressing when it comes to his attributes. Every single one of his physical and technical attributes has dropped 1 point. I'm not sure why, but he's just not progressing at all. He's 20 years old, btw. He absolutely tore it up in the Q, but his attributes have never been anything special, and like I said now they are even dropping. In his first professional season, I gave him a 17 game stint in the NHL, then sent him to the AHL for further seasoning.

Maybe he's just meant to be a bust in my file? lol That's the only thing I can think of because I've put a ridiculous amount of hours into this game over the years and I definitely have plenty of experience developing young players. Maybe Bossy just isn't meant to be a superstar in my file?

Also, I'm starting the see first hand the low adaptability rating for Euro's. Peter Stastny's first 28 games in the NHL as a 22 year old - 6 points and an average rating of 5.32! I think I'll keep him in the AHL for another season or two, and hopefully he'll adapt.

[nino33]

That's interesting about Bossy...maybe others who play can post their experience with Bossy?
I've added "does Mike Bossy require improved start-up Atts?" to my current list of things to look at/edit...

Some guys (like Bossy) were at first "to good" because their CA was based on 1974 but their Attributes were based on 1979-80 (because they came from Pens66 1979-80 db).....perhaps the recent edits I made to turn the 1979 NHL superstar Mike Bossy into the 1974 QMJHL superstar Mike Bossy were to drastic? And/or perhaps some Hidden and/or Permanent Attributes are the problem?.....he's on the list of things to look at!

Also, I'm starting the see first hand the low adaptability rating for Euro's. Peter Stastny's first 28 games in the NHL as a 22 year old - 6 points and an average rating of 5.32! I think I'll keep him in the AHL for another season or two, and hopefully he'll adapt.

Actually IRL Peter Stastny actually came to NA and played well, so his Adaptability is actually 16! I gave all Europeans/Russians an Adaptability of 1/Loyalty of 20 and then I went back and edited the couple dozen who actually came to NA - but Peter Stastny came to NA IRL in 1980...so in EHM, this means he should "realistically" be in the NHL about 2012 - so in an attempt to simulate this delay 19 year old Peter Stastny starts the game with a CA of 30!

I'm currently doing some testing to see how players as young as 1 (with starting CAs as low as 5) develop, and I'm looking at some Europeans/Russians with low starting CAs (like P. Stastny) in my testing.....it takes many many hours/days to do this testing and look at/act upon the results, but it's in-progress!


Regards

[XenHL]

A couple quick observations - found a few more all-caps names: HAROLD, PEKKA and BOHUSLAV.

I'll keep an eye on Bossy too, and some others, and report on how they fare in my game.

[bruins72]

I was just looking in the DB and noticed that I couldn't find Mike Eruzione. I looked for a few of the other Mircale on Ice guys and found them. Just no Rizzo.

You are correct! He's not in the database
I suspect he's never been in the database, as he never actually played an NHL game (and retired after the Olympics)...
He's now on the "list of things to fix" - thanks!

Thanks! I figured he should be there for the 1980 team even if he didn't play after that. Plus, he was drafted in 1974 by the New England Whalers.

[nino33]

he was drafted in 1974 by the New England Whalers

FYI I didn't include any WHA Draft information (EHM doesn't have a "WHA Entry Draft" category...and I worried EHM wouldn't like it if I'd included WHA Draft info as NHL Draft info, as many players were drafted by both NHL and WHA teams IRL - so to simplify it for myself I included just NHL Draft info in the 1974 db)

found a few more all-caps names: HAROLD, PEKKA and BOHUSLAV.

Yeah...Manimal keeps finding them too!
I need to deal with this, and will at some point...I've never deleted names using the PreGame Editor, and I hate trying new things (I've just had to much go wacky for no apparent reason during this editing journey! HaHa)...