1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[nino33]

That sounds like it'd take forever and a day...

It's tedious! So far I've gone through A-J of the Forenames...

I'm fairly sure that you can edit as many names as you like in one go. I'm almost certain I did this when helping to fix the names earlier this year. It's just that the names list takes a few moments to update in the left hand column once you have made a change and clicked on Confirm.

I thought you exported/imported names, didn't think you'd used the PreGame Editor to fix the names...I tried multiple times (I found that the left hand column did NOT update, the change only showed in the Name Box, and when I closed/reloaded the change it hadn't taken effect), but no success until I tried the "one at a time method" (I've given up caring about the "why?" of things "as long as it works!" HaHa)

[XenHL]

This is something I only just thought of, now that I'm done three teams and into a fourth... and the situation has come up on several occasions - but of course this only just occurred to me:

I've noticed that there are occasions when a player played the regular season with Team A (his regular junior team), and then for the Memorial Cup competition he's with Team B. It occurred to me that this could be something to put 'Y' in under the 'Loan' header... but I haven't done this, and there's been at least half a dozen such instances... what do you think? Should I go back and edit these (it'd need doing in the csv I sent you already, too), or should we just leave it as N under 'Loan'?

[nino33]

I've noticed that there are occasions when a player played the regular season with Team A (his regular junior team), and then for the Memorial Cup competition he's with Team B. It occurred to me that this could be something to put 'Y' in under the 'Loan' header...

I suppose this would be a "loan" - can you give me a name or two? I'd like to research it a bit (curious I am!)

I've noticed that there are occasions when a player played the regular season with Team A (his regular junior team), and then for the Memorial Cup competition he's with Team B. It occurred to me that this could be something to put 'Y' in under the 'Loan' header... but I haven't done this, and there's been at least half a dozen such instances... what do you think? Should I go back and edit these (it'd need doing in the csv I sent you already, too), or should we just leave it as N under 'Loan'?

ARCH - is there anything that could be/cause a problem if we "put 'Y' in under the 'Loan' header"? I don't think there'd be any possible issue, but I just wanted to be sure...




FYI - So far I've deleted 4205 more modern Staff/Players, and I'm almost done deleting all the "weird names"!

[XenHL]

A few examples of such:

Bob Woytowich, 1961-62, reg season Winnipeg Rangers, Memorial Cup with the Wheat Kings;

Terry Ball,1962-63, reg season Winnipeg Rangers, Memorial Cup with the Wheat Kings;

John Garrett, 1969-70, reg season and OHA playoffs with the Petes, Memorial Cup with the Junior Habs;

Fran Huck, 1964-65, reg season and SJHL playoffs with the Pats, Memorial Cup with the Oil Kings.

[archibalduk]

I'm not sure about the loan issue. I don't see why it should be a problem - all it does is add the word "loan" to the career history entry in game.

With regards to the Mem Cup, I recommend just double checking with the original 3.0.4 DB that Mem Cup entries do have a Y under the Playoffs column. I thought they did, but I think someone since mentioned that they shouldn't. It's something I've been wanted to double check in order to ensure that the readme is correct.

[nino33]

With regards to the Mem Cup, I recommend just double checking with the original 3.0.4 DB that Mem Cup entries do have a Y under the Playoffs column. I thought they did, but I think someone since mentioned that they shouldn't. It's something I've been wanted to double check in order to ensure that the readme is correct.

So I checked the default db, and since it starts in 2006-07 I looked at the IRL 2006 Memorial Cup teams and the player history…and it seems the Memorial Cup isn’t included at all!!!

The Vancouver Giants took 18 games to just get to the 2006 Memorial Cup (winning the WHL by beating Prince George/Portland in 5 games each, and then beating Everett/Moose Jaw in 4 games each…and then they played 5 more games in the Memorial Cup) – as far as I can tell, the Memorial Cup player history does NOT show in the default db at all (FYI it's not that League Playoffs and Memorial Cup are added together)

I took a look at the Moncton Wildcats player history (they took 21 games to just get to the 2006 Memorial Cup), same results - the Memorial Cup player history does NOT show in the default db

I also took a look at Jarome Iginla to see if his player history showed his Memorial Cup stats from the early 1990s…and again the Memorial Cup player history does NOT show in the default db

[nino33]

So far I've deleted 4205 more modern Staff/Players, and I'm almost done deleting all the "weird names"!

Deleting of weird names is done!



Back on September 2nd I posted a list of "things being worked on" - here's an update

1. The Bantam and PreJunior minor hockey players still require further review and editing (and team placement); all of the "minor hockey" players need additional editing in light of recent "increased Attribute awareness/knowledge"
2. The AHL and CHL players still require further review and editing as players (and the vast majority have not been reviewed and contracted to an NHL team as applicable...they're just contracted to their AHL/CHL team) Currently working on!
3. There are additional WHL and OHL players to be added (using 1974-75 WHL/OHL Guides) Planning to do “soon”
4. Additional Staff – AHL/CHL plus Major Junior Started!
5. There are additional minor hockey players to be added (using Major Junior Guides/Yearbooks from years well after 1974)
6. Creating “minor hockey leagues” for Europe/Russia
7. Populate European/Russian Elite Leagues with historical players Started!

AND I continue to do research/testing on CA and Height/Weight development

[archibalduk]

With regards to the Mem Cup, I recommend just double checking with the original 3.0.4 DB that Mem Cup entries do have a Y under the Playoffs column. I thought they did, but I think someone since mentioned that they shouldn't. It's something I've been wanted to double check in order to ensure that the readme is correct.

So I checked the default db, and since it starts in 2006-07 I looked at the IRL 2006 Memorial Cup teams and the player history…and it seems the Memorial Cup isn’t included at all!!!

It looks like Memorial Cup stats weren't added to many players.

I have exported the player career history from the DB and have found only 166 entries for the Memorial Cup. For example, Shea Webber has entries for 2002, 2003 and 2004 with the Kelowna Rockets. All entries in the DB for the Memorial Cup have 'N' under the Playoffs column.

[XenHL]

I think you guys may be missing a key point:

The vast majority of Memorial Cup stats I've input would not be under 'loan', as it is with the same team as they played in the regular season/league playoffs.

The loan question I have is based on the examples I listed above.

John Garrett, in 1969-70, played the regular season and OHA playoffs with the Peterborough Petes. The Petes were eliminated, and the OHA representative in the Memorial Cup was the Montreal Junior Canadiens, who it would seem wanted a better goalie than they had, because Garrett, after his Petes were eliminated, went on to play for the Junior Habs only for the 69-70 Memorial Cup campaign.

This seems to me to be everything that the word 'loan' can cover. I don't even think they're allowed to do this anymore?

But yes: my question wasn't about whether the Mem Cup is a loan in all cases, only whether the few cases I mentioned, like Garrett and Woytowich and Huck, should be marked as 'Loan'...

[nino33]

I think you guys may be missing a key point:

The vast majority of Memorial Cup stats I've input would not be under 'loan', as it is with the same team as they played in the regular season/league playoffs.

I think we understand ; I do recall "back in the old days" Major Junior teams adding a player or two going into the Memorial Cup - I think you could say "Yes" or "No" to it being a Loan, either way is fine

What we did notice is the default database rarely lists Memorial Cup history at all...the database should have many hundreds of such entries (40+ every year going back well over 10 years), and there are only 166 entries total for the Memorial Cup! It seems an "oops" from back when the game was released...

All entries in the DB for the Memorial Cup have 'N' under the Playoffs column.

Arch - So do you think we too should mark the Memorial Cup as "N" for the Playoffs?

[archibalduk]

All entries in the DB for the Memorial Cup have 'N' under the Playoffs column.

Arch - So do you think we too should mark the Memorial Cup as "N" for the Playoffs?

I think so. I haven't personally tested this, but it was the general consensus we reached in the 2011/12 history researching thread.

[XenHL]

If marked 'N' for playoffs, the stats there would then be calculated along with the regular season stats, no?

It would seem to me to be better to include it with playoffs, as it's not 'regular season' by any means... how does the game handle Cup competitions in European leagues?

RL, anyways, any website I've looked at that lists playoff stats and Memorial Cup stats all classify the Memorial Cup competition as playoffs. And to me, anyways, that does make more sense than including it with regular season...

[nino33]

If marked 'N' for playoffs, the stats there would then be calculated along with the regular season stats, no?

Maybe not, because the "Canadian Hockey League Memorial Cup" is its own Competition....what do you think Arch?

[archibalduk]

I have had a look at last season's Manimal DB and it seems if you mark 'N' for the Memorial Cup it will appear on the Regular Season section and is counted as reg season stats.

I suppose the key question is how does EHM treat Memorial Cup wins in the game. Does it put them in the Playoffs or Regular Season section. I will leave a sim running this morning whilst I'm studying and will let you later today.

[archibalduk]

I have simmed a season in EHM and it seems the game treats Memorial Cup games as regular season games in the player career history. However, in the current season stats, it classes it as "Other" (see the bottom section of the screenshot below). Thus we should mark Memorial Cup games as 'N' in the Playoffs column.

With regards to continental competitions (e.g. Euro Champions Cup), it seems we're best simply not adding these to the DB as they're treated as Continental and not Regular Season or Playoffs.

[XenHL]

Bleh... that doesn't make much sense to my mind, but eh.

So I guess I should go back and change Mem Cup stats to 'N' under playoffs?

[XenHL]

Something I noticed whilst playing the game: there are two of John Baby.

And a typo I noticed in a name: Rixk.

Maybe it's because he's really young yet, but Mario Lemieux's scout reports are coming up as "second line potential".

Another oddity: in the Habs' team records, some guy named Gavin Gylywoychuk holds the records for most shutouts in a season (22) and most career shutouts (75).

And a bit of a LOLworthy thing: going into the second season of my current game, I noticed that Gordie Gallant signed with Djurgarden of the Swedish league... and my first thought was, man, there's going to be death and destruction in Stockholm...

[nino33]

So I guess I should go back and change Mem Cup stats to 'N' under playoffs?

Sounds good!

there are two of John Baby.

Fixed

And a typo I noticed in a name: Rixk.

I'm going to wait to fix this (I think I need to first ensure that no one else is using the name before I overwrite/correct it…given the numerous times I've encountered EHM editing weirdness I want to be careful)

Another oddity: in the Habs' team records, some guy named Gavin Gylywoychuk holds the records for most shutouts in a season (22) and most career shutouts (75).

Hmmm....weird; I'll have to look into this in the future (George Hainsworth holds the IRL 22 SO record)...I'm guessing maybe a previous "name fix" reshuffled the ID numbers [or maybe this connects back to the crash issue that Arch recently by transferring data to a functioning db…I lost a lot of work (again) when that happened!]

Maybe it's because he's really young yet, but Mario Lemieux's scout reports are coming up as "second line potential".

To my knowledge Mario hasn't done well in any test (by anyone) thus far...not sure why; I might just recreate him (and a few others) from scratch and see if that helps - I wonder if there's something that's causing this that might be helped by recreating the player (likely these players were created by overwriting someone modern...maybe something unseen is somehow still affecting things)

And a bit of a LOLworthy thing: going into the second season of my current game, I noticed that Gordie Gallant signed with Djurgarden of the Swedish league... and my first thought was, man, there's going to be death and destruction in Stockholm...

That's funny!



The last few days (and for the next bunch of days) I'm working mostly on the further editing of the historical AHL/CHL players...


Regards

[XenHL]

I've noticed some other oddities in the team records pages... I can sorta understand when for career records on a team's page it gives /total/ career records, but in a few cases there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the number it inserts there.

Noticed that Pelle Lindbergh is being reported as "third string" with limited potential... has that to do with a low PA, or is it another instance of the "Lemieux disease"?

I'm happily plugging away at getting the player histories done... I should have Atlanta and Birmingham done in about 10 minutes (only Dean Talafous and Eric Vail left to do)... one might consider it tedious, but I'm not finding it so: I'm actually finding it pretty fascinating!

And I thought up an idea for the next game I start new: take the Nordiques, and place one restriction on myself: no more than three "foreign" (that is, non-Quebecois) players on the big team's roster. Probably not going to use my usual personal restrictions on trading and free agent signings, given the mostly-QC-only rule will make it tough enough, I think...

[nino33]

I've noticed some other oddities in the team records pages... I can sorta understand when for career records on a team's page it gives /total/ career records, but in a few cases there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the number it inserts there.

I did the Team/NHL Records a long time ago (before the summer)...since then I think the crash/fix might have affected things...when I get some time I'll take a look and use the Uodater to fix things (assuming it can be fixed...IIRC there are some "EHM Issues" with Records)

Noticed that Pelle Lindbergh is being reported as "third string" with limited potential... has that to do with a low PA, or is it another instance of the "Lemieux disease"?

The low starting CA (40) means it'll take a awhile for him to develop, but his PA is 173
Depends on when/what year it is in-game too...IRL Lindbergh didn't come to NA until 1980 (so playing in the AHL in 2012 in EHM would be "realistic")

I'm happily plugging away at getting the player histories done... I should have Atlanta and Birmingham done in about 10 minutes (only Dean Talafous and Eric Vail left to do)... one might consider it tedious, but I'm not finding it so: I'm actually finding it pretty fascinating!

Your efforts are very much appreciated!!

And I thought up an idea for the next game I start new: take the Nordiques, and place one restriction on myself: no more than three "foreign" (that is, non-Quebecois) players on the big team's roster. Probably not going to use my usual personal restrictions on trading and free agent signings, given the mostly-QC-only rule will make it tough enough, I think...

Sounds like a cool idea!

[bruins72]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but Dave Schultz needs his Bravery fixed. He's got a Bravery of 2 in my game. My guess is that it should have been 20 but there was a typo or something.

[batdad]

Nope. Schulz was a notorious chicken bleep. Only got involved when he knew it was safe.....very rarely was it. I believe he had to crawl and hide in the bench during one game, and only played well with Semenko on his line.




Wait....just a second, have I got the right guy? Schultz is the guy who every one says is the best hockey player ever right?

Nickname the "Great Hammer"?

[nino33]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but Dave Schultz needs his Bravery fixed. He's got a Bravery of 2 in my game. My guess is that it should have been 20 but there was a typo or something.

I agree that 2 is to low, but I don't think 20 because Bravery doesn't directly/just connect to Fighting IMO (the Fighting Att does for sure, as might Strength, and Aggression)…you won’t fight if you’re not brave, but my understanding is Bravery also affects things like blocking shots

IMO Schultz gets a bad wrap by some old-timers...he did fight some smaller guys sometimes; for a couple/few years he truly "intimidated" on a team that did so, in an era where fighting was frequent (and the Flyers won two Cups)...it's not Schultz's fault that he beat Rolfe silly in game 7 versus the Rangers in 1974, and he beat O'Rielly pretty soundly in the 1974 Final too...but he also lost pretty convincingly to Clarke Gillies, and IIRC Gary Howatt beat him too (one of those small guys!)

Wait....just a second, have I got the right guy? Schultz is the guy who everyone says is the best hockey player ever right?

Nickname the "Great Hammer"?

If you don't put some kind of "HaHa" or something it's hard to tell between humour and the possible start of senility!

Dave Shultz was known as "the Hammer" (472 PM in 1974-75), but no one ever called him the best hockey player ever! HaHa



P.S. Best/toughest fighter IMO...Bob Probert

[XenHL]

I didn't check the attrs/numbers, but Schultz has consistently been getting barely 200 PIM a season, if that, in my games thus far... which seems to me to be ridiculously low for a guy who set the record for most PIM in a season.

Perhaps his aggression attr needs a boost?

[bruins72]

I know that Bravery affects willingness to block shots but doesn't it also affect the player's willingness to fight? I know it's also supposed to affect the player's willingness to go into the corners and do the dirty work and also to take a hit.