Franchise Hockey Manager Beta v0.9.9 Discussion Thread

[Saapas]

New version of the beta released 0.9.9

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/f ... lable.html

[MWE]

This new one doesn't seem to load logos or player pics for me

[MWE]

Its ok it seems to be working now

[newsguyone]

Strange game.
It feels kind of like a Simon T Hockey Sim more than EHM.
It's hard not to compare it to NHL EHM.

My biggest issues right now are the ease of use and ability to navigate and sort out the hockey world.

1. It takes forever to edit lines set up a lineup.-- The game also lack's EHM's presentation where you could get to the standings and stats easily.

2. Clickability/Sortability/Filters etc...
One of the great things about EHM was the way you could cycle through screens and go all over the hockey world. You could click on a player, click on his draft history, see everyone else in his sraft, sort out the draft by goals scored, see which drafted players are unsigned,...
Hell, I wish the NHL.com website was as easy to navigate as NHL EHM.
The ability to go into a draft and sort out players by age, position, speed, leadership etc ... that was amazing. And this game doesn't deliver it.

I have lots of issues with FHM -- and that's to be expected. But if they address the top 2 issues, this will be a game I will support.

[philou21]

It's hard not to compare it to NHL EHM.

Just tell yourself this isn't an EHM sequel. It's OOTP now who develops it now, we need to forget about EHM.

Hell, I wish the NHL.com website was as easy to navigate as NHL EHM. The ability to go into a draft and sort out players by age, position, speed, leadership etc ... that was amazing. And this game doesn't deliver it.

Does Beta ring any bells to you? You seem quite impatient.

[Animal31]

Except for the fact that is needs to be better than EHM in every single way, because thats the perfect game
Just because something is different, doesnt make it an excuse to fault some features

if EHM does something better than FHM, then FHM should definitely be improved in that area

[CJ]

FHM should take all things that are great/perfect in EHM and Football Manager, then we would have a awesome game!

[Saapas]

FHM should take all things that are great/perfect in EHM and Football Manager, then we would have a awesome game!

Remember that the development team is completely different than in FM or EHM they started from clean table and they don't have access to the codes of those games. I believe that maybe the second or third version of the full game will be better than any of the EHm series game. I just hope that the game gets enough support form consumers so they have the resources to keep on making new FHM so it doesn't stay on this one version

[Phareux]

I was playing the game as Pittsburgh Pens, as i played the match vs Ottawa, i noticed the logos were for pit and ott but instead of the Pitt lineup it showed MOntreal, also the bottom section of the lineups only shows the front five and not the goalie. The first couple games went fine (other than not showing the goalie) but this is the third match of the season and now it is starting to mess up.

[Primis]

Except for the fact that is needs to be better than EHM in every single way, because thats the perfect game

Whoah, beep beep, back the truck up.

EHM 2007 is full of flaws. There's very little modding ability, and the start date is hardcoded. Trading in 2007 is still wonky and weird. There are still money/overpowered tactics you can run. I hate the way player development works (so that the CPU is always so much better at it, except if you set the CPU to run your own team). Player fatigue gets weird at various times. Simming any decent amount of time takes way, way oto long and progressing in the game to get from one draft to the next takes FOREVER. At its core EHM 2007 is still a soccer management sim with a hockey overlay unfortunately and it's very hard for some North Americans to get past.

I could go on, but EHM 2007 was not even close to perfect. In fact, there are many ways the freeware EHM was even still superior to the commercial 2007. Some of us would like something that is a stark difference to EHM, something new and fresh.

[B. Stinson]

If you guys are hoping for EHM 2014, I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. OOTP Developments is an entirely separate team, and I'm sure they have their own goals and ambitions. They'll be aiming for the same type of game, but they won't be trying to bring EHM back from the dead. This is going to be OOTP Hockey.

And to be honest, that's probably for the better. Markus has been going strong with OOTP Baseball for the last 15-or-so years. OOTP Developments obviously has a great head on their shoulders; they need to emulate no one.

[Animal31]

Except for the fact that is needs to be better than EHM in every single way, because thats the perfect game

Whoah, beep beep, back the truck up.

EHM 2007 is full of flaws. There's very little modding ability, and the start date is hardcoded. Trading in 2007 is still wonky and weird. There are still money/overpowered tactics you can run. I hate the way player development works (so that the CPU is always so much better at it, except if you set the CPU to run your own team). Player fatigue gets weird at various times. Simming any decent amount of time takes way, way oto long and progressing in the game to get from one draft to the next takes FOREVER. At its core EHM 2007 is still a soccer management sim with a hockey overlay unfortunately and it's very hard for some North Americans to get past.

I could go on, but EHM 2007 was not even close to perfect. In fact, there are many ways the freeware EHM was even still superior to the commercial 2007. Some of us would like something that is a stark difference to EHM, something new and fresh.

I dont think you know what I mean by better
I know EHM has flaws, but if FHM were to fix these flaws, then thats the perfect game

[Animal31]

If you guys are hoping for EHM 2014, I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. OOTP Developments is an entirely separate team, and I'm sure they have their own goals and ambitions. They'll be aiming for the same type of game, but they won't be trying to bring EHM back from the dead. This is going to be OOTP Hockey.

And to be honest, that's probably for the better. Markus has been going strong with OOTP Baseball for the last 15-or-so years. OOTP Developments obviously has a great head on their shoulders; they need to emulate no one.

Like I said, there is no reason not to do what EHM did well. To not do these things will obviously lead to a shittier product overall

For example, EHM had the ability to call up your players from the player page, and by right clicking whenever the team is selected. if FHM doesnt do this, than they are missing out on a way to make the UI better and more streamlined. The way they have it now sucks, you have to go to your teams page, then click on the affiliates category to do it. You cant look around stats in the AHL, and end up on the team and be like "I wanna call this guy up" and keep doing what you're doing, you have to go all the way back to your teams roster managment screen

Being happy with something, just because it is different, even though you acknowledge there is a better way to do it out there is just being happy with mediocrity.

If they do something worse than EHM, it will also stick out like a sore thumb, like how you cant change lines in game, and you cant see individual stats during the game, and something like right click, hit scout, hit "All available scouts" is a nice and quick way to scout players while still allowing for depth by clicking individual scouts and queing jobs. Just because "its not EHM 2" is not an excuse not to do something like that

[philou21]

Being happy with something, just because it is different, even though you acknowledge there is a better way to do it out there is just being happy with mediocrity.

Like I said to the other guy. BETA, not finished, just starting, keeps improving, not in 2 days. Try to be more patient.

[akwok]

I noticed two really annoying UI issues during a quick playthrough:

1.) When trying to switch players from one position to another when editing a lineup (by dragging and dropping one player over another), it works fine for everything EXCEPT even strength. For even strength, the player just gets duplicated instead of swapped. It makes line changes very tedious.

2.) When creating a trade proposal, you can usually switch between teams you want to trade with using the dropdown box. However, if you click on a player to view more information about him, and then go back to the trade screen, the dropdown box becomes unselectable unless you leave the trade screen and come back. Again, it makes trading very tedious.

I imagine both to be very easy fixes though.

[CJ]

FHM should take all things that are great/perfect in EHM and Football Manager, then we would have a awesome game!

Remember that the development team is completely different than in FM or EHM they started from clean table and they don't have access to the codes of those games. I believe that maybe the second or third version of the full game will be better than any of the EHm series game. I just hope that the game gets enough support form consumers so they have the resources to keep on making new FHM so it doesn't stay on this one version

Yes I know, but I meant like the best ideas and such.

[jhart05]

Posted this in a different thread. Wondering if it's been added to the FHM game yet.

"I just started playing OOTP baseball this year. Started a game in 1973. Had everyone throughout the league, who did not end up on the major league roster to start out, very angry. Not realistic at all.

Entered a help ticket for it and they added this "Reset Morale of all Players" in the options to zero those out. I was surprised no one had ever mentioned that before.

I really don't like their morale system. Needs a little more work I think. Sometimes it seems as if your players are all 12-year old girls."


If "Reset Morale of All Players" hasn't been added yet, you guys will want to request it.

I'm still taking a wait and see approach with this new game. Perfectly happy with EHM right now and my experience with OOTP13 was not good. Never even played one season with it. Wanted to start in 1973 like I said, but various issues made the game unplayable/unrealistic for me.

[archibalduk]

It's worth keeping in mind that OOTP and FHM are separate games with separate code bases. I haven't seen any morale issues reported for FHM thus far.

As for the range of players included in the historic game, I believe it includes all players who played at least 1 NHL game.

[batdad]

Yeah that is what is in historic game.

As for the new development notes from our friend Jeff. Not much in there about making the UI easier to manage and deal with.

TO me the focus needs to be on (once crashes and silly bugs are fixed):

1. UI
2. AI
3. Player ratings

In that order.

I am not seeing much from them in terms of making the UI work more intuitively and that worries me as a potential player. Of course, why would they care about what I think? They know I have paid my 30 bucks for the game already...and now are looking to get others to pay their 30. (BEING A BIT FACETIOUS HERE GUYS SO DO NOT JUMP)

As it is the UI is terrible IMHO. Too long to do anything, and will only speed up as you get used to it somewhat. Lots of right clicks, lots of clicks and backs. Not enough. Need to be able to move quickly and smoothly back and forth....so far I do not feel you can do that. In other games that have had this issue for me, I have quit playing and have not gone back to the game.

Still holding out hope, but really not seeing enough progress being made on the UI.

AI--GOod things. They are working on this. Pleased
Player ratings-_Good things they are working on this. Pleased.


And I am I the only one wondering with Jeff R talking about some hard coding areas around rules if this is going to be an issue. Yeah, somehow I doubt it.

[Primis]

And I am I the only one wondering with Jeff R talking about some hard coding areas around rules if this is going to be an issue. Yeah, somehow I doubt it.

No, that was a red flag to me. To be blunt, there should be *NO* reason that they need to hardcode what he's saying they're possibly going to have to. League roster rules should easily be set by a small set of 4 or 5 customizable variables:

AGE (MIN. AGE/AGE RANGE/ MAX. AGE)
DATE OF BIRTH
NATIONALITY
PLACE OF BIRTH/RESIDENCE
PRO GAMES PLAYED/VETERAN RULE
MAX. DRESSED/ROSTER PER TEAM
MAX RESERVE LIST

I'm not really aware of any other combinations of variables to qualify for any league rosters, someone correct me if I missed a variable somewhere. These should be programmed in as fully player customizable options for every single league in the game. That they're potentially balking at doing so does not bode well IMHO.

At least that's what I read into what he was saying, is that it was the league roster rules.

[batdad]

Yeah....it will not make actual Junior leagues unplayable. Provided the roster rules STAY the way they are. But the likelihood is that they will change. Everyone always plans on future editions etc, but some day, some time all things come to an end. Hence why we have EHM 2007 still.

For a company that prides itself on modding ability, and not hardcoding anything...just that simple little statement makes me wonder.

I really really want this game to succeed. I Really really want to support this game in the future (already supported it for future version 2 as have paid my pre order $).

I REALLY want to feel like I can play this game.

Still... I do not.

And backhandedly here...but this game was in Private Beta prior to the pre release. Not sure what was actually done there, but there are alot of things that you think they may have solved back in the private beta. No one reported those crashes back then? No one reported the clunkiness of the UI? No one reported no draft after the first season?

It seems to me that the private beta was not getting much help in there. Unless it was amazingly weak on private beta release. Because this sure seems to have a low starting level in the public beta.

Am I wrong? TOtally out to lunch? If I am I am fine and good with that. And I would apologize for it.

I should not have preordered.I have not touched it since the first day of the 2nd part of the beta release, when I downloaded it over the first release.

I hope things get better once Sebastien is more available.

[archibalduk]

I hope things get better once Sebastien is more available.

This seems key to me. In fact, I do wonder whether this has led to the quick and dirty hardcoded fixes mentioned in Jeff's posts. It really can't help when half of the coding team is missing elsewhere. Didn't Sebastian have to spend a big chunk of time on iOOTP last year too? That must put a lot of pressure on Malte. I do wonder perhaps he's had to make quick fixes in order to make the beta more playable whilst the team is a man down (bearing in mind the first version released at the beginning of the month was chock full of bugs).

League roster rules should easily be set by a small set of 4 or 5 customizable variables:

AGE (MIN. AGE/AGE RANGE/ MAX. AGE)
DATE OF BIRTH
NATIONALITY
PLACE OF BIRTH/RESIDENCE
PRO GAMES PLAYED/VETERAN RULE
MAX. DRESSED/ROSTER PER TEAM
MAX RESERVE LIST

There's a lot more to it than that (and I do mean just roster rules here - I'm not taking into account the other categories of rules). Jeff mentioned on and off ice rules and so I think it's more than just the roster rules. The way I read Jeff's post is that it is the interrelation between the league rules that is causing the problem. So for league X if certain combinations of rules are enabled, it results in instability. I might be completely wrong, but that was my initial thought/understanding of what Jeff wrote.

My fear is the same as yours; that the rules (or at least a proportion of them) are going to end up hardcoded like EHM. The scope for customisation (i.e. to be able to keep the league rules/structures up to date year on year without relying on the devs to do it) is the only solid selling point for me. If that goes then what are we left with? This sums it up perfectly for me:

I really really want this game to succeed. I Really really want to support this game in the future (already supported it for future version 2 as have paid my pre order $).

I REALLY want to feel like I can play this game.

Still... I do not.

The game still lacks that hook for me. Despite the hardcoded limitations and faulty AI, EHM still has that hook. Although I don't have so much time to play it, I still find the odd 20 or so minutes each week to carry on my long term saved game. FHM doesn't have that effect on me. I go through cycles of thinking that on the one hand the "hook" will come in time for September whereas on the other hand I think there's only 6 months until release date. Still, that's still 6 months to turn things around. In the mean time I'll just keep on telling myself that it's only a beta!

[CeeBee]

I installed the latest beta version but to be honest I didn't get more that a couple of game days into setting up my team before I lost interest again. I'll probably keep the beta up to date for the most part and hopefully it will eventually inspire me a bit. Judging by how slow the FHM forum is over there I'm guessing almost all of the "dieing to play the beta " crowd have already lost interest.

[Primis]

The game still lacks that hook for me. Despite the hardcoded limitations and faulty AI, EHM still has that hook. Although I don't have so much time to play it, I still find the odd 20 or so minutes each week to carry on my long term saved game. FHM doesn't have that effect on me. I go through cycles of thinking that on the one hand the "hook" will come in time for September whereas on the other hand I think there's only 6 months until release date. Still, that's still 6 months to turn things around. In the mean time I'll just keep on telling myself that it's only a beta!

The beta isn't going to have that hook. It just isn't. There's a certain amount of polish that needs to be in place so you can immerse yourself, and the beta simply does not have it when certain things are disabled and crashes are happening. The final might, but there's no real way of telling yet. Not with so much missing.

That's why I'm focusing more on trying to fix the major problems, hoping they don't botch it from the start and are leaving their options and customizations open, and going from there. Immersion will come if the rest is in finally in place.

[blueshirtnParis]

Hi,

Not sure this belongs here but I just bought the FHM Beta and cant sim past the first game. It keeps crashing. I am running Window 7.

Thanks