1974/75: Nino's Rosters - Mario Lemieux as an 8 year old

[CJ]

So you're probably not gonna do "famous" european players that were born in the 70's am I right? I think I'll edit your database and add them there myself then (for myself).

[nino33]

So you're probably not gonna do "famous" european players that were born in the 70's am I right? I think I'll edit your database and add them there myself then (for myself).

I'm currently "running out of gas" when it comes to the 1974 database, and need a break. The amount of work still "required" is immense - NHL Player Attributes + AHL/CHL Staff (current focus) and eventually Major Junior Staff too, plus review the Attributes of historical Major Junior players, add fake Major Junior players where needed, review the Attributes of historical Minor Pro players...and add extra young historical European/Russian players! There's LOTS more I'd like to do, but it takes LOTS of time!

I think I'll edit your database and add them there myself then (for myself).

I suppose the easiest way would be to put them in the already created North American "minor hockey" Leagues...this is NOT something I'm looking to do, as I want them in their "home" country. I was looking at Sweden, Finland, Russia, Czech Republic and Slovakia...and I was looking at U17, U14, U11, U8 and U5 Leagues (so 5 counties x 6 Leagues = 30 Leagues...each League usually has 4 teams of about 20 players...so 30 Leagues x 80 players = 2400 players)...so for me adding the extra young Europeans/Russians is something I want to do, but I want to do it "right" and not just add a few players


In my mind I'm waiting a bit to see if a new SavedGame Updater will allow for the creation of new players to be added into an existing game; if so, then I'd like to remove the extra young players and create yearly csv style files that will be inputted to add the historical players at age 14-16 (like the game prefers!)...if not, the csv style file input will be used to edit things like Height/Weight development (and maybe some other development if possible)

[archibalduk]

if not, the csv style file input will be used to edit things like Height/Weight development (and maybe some other development if possible)

Height, weight and DOB saved game editing is now possible using the usual attribute_update and nonplayer_update files. I just finished adding it earlier today. So if you want to edit things like that, just list them in an attribute_update file like you normally would. For those players who have the wrong DOB, enter their DOB as any date and month and the correct year - and then at the very far right of the spreadsheet you can enter their correct DOB (you don't have to enter the full correct DOB - if you just want to change the date and month, you don't have to enter the year). Here's an example of how to correct Eric Lindros' DOB:



The only limitation with the attribute_update for saved games is that the CA and all of the main attributes use a different scale which I haven't figured out (the game uses some formula where the attributes are relative to the CA - see this thread for more details). If/when I figure out the formula, I'll implement correct CA and attribute updating.

I haven't done much testing, but there was no problem changing heights, weights, DOBs and positions (I haven't tried any other bits, but it should all work fine).

In my mind I'm waiting a bit to see if a new SavedGame Updater will allow for the creation of new players to be added into an existing game; if so, then I'd like to remove the extra young players and create yearly csv style files that will be inputted to add the historical players at age 14-16 (like the game prefers!)...

I think player deletion will be impossible. Without full details of the structure of the saved game, I don't know all of the parts of the saved game that would have to be updated in order to remove players. I'm going to try adding new players next week. I don't know if it'll work, though. The game seems to reserve the final 15 or 16 slots in the staff.dat file for human GMs. I'm not sure whether the game will be happy if I try to add staff after them. I'll give it a go, though!

[nino33]

Thanks for the update Arch!

In my mind I'm waiting a bit to see if a new SavedGame Updater will allow for the creation of new players to be added into an existing game; if so, then I'd like to remove the extra young players and create yearly csv style files that will be inputted to add the historical players at age 14-16 (like the game prefers!)...

I think player deletion will be impossible. Without full details of the structure of the saved game, I don't know all of the parts of the saved game that would have to be updated in order to remove players. I'm going to try adding new players next week. I don't know if it'll work, though. The game seems to reserve the final 15 or 16 slots in the staff.dat file for human GMs. I'm not sure whether the game will be happy if I try to add staff after them. I'll give it a go, though!

FYI - when I say "I'd like to remove the extra young players" I mean remove the extra young players in the initial starting database (via the Pregame Editor/Updater)...and supply along with the starting database CSV files that a user would use each year (on/after July 1st) to input the new players - so in this way historical players would be added into the database every year at age 14! (so Lindros would be added in/on July 1st 1986)

Because of the CA/Attributes "scale issue" in a saved game I'm imagining the process to do so would be to create a 14 year old version of the historical player, start/save a game and then use the SavedGame Updater to view and copy all of the player's relevant Bio/Attributes data (and this would be inputted into the game at the appropriate time via the user using a CSV file/the SavedGame Updater to add new historical players each year...kinda like how they show up each year in the historical FHM) - do you foresee any problems with this Arch?

What I really like about this is
#1 avoids the whole issue of weird height/weight development
#2 avoids the incorrect birthday issue
#3 avoids a player having 10+ years of history/stats before they even reach Major Junior
#4 allows for better Attribute development (the game wasn't created to accommodate such young players at start-up)
#5 allows for players to continue to be added right up to the present time (for example, #1 overall draftee Nathan MacKinnon would be added in on July 1st 2009)




To all who read my posts in this thread...THIS WON'T HAPPEN THIS SUMMER

I've already listed the multiple 1974 database "big editing projects" I'm looking to work on...this just adds to the list! HaHa
For now I'm thrilled it looks like users will be able to fix height/weight issues and DOB issues with a SavedGame Updater.
I've been working on the 1974 database for 3 years now! So with the improvements/possibilities that Archi's editing tools are creating, and the progress I've made because I've been working so long on the 1974 database, I'd expect there'll be a version 4 released too...but right now I'm just trying to get some Staff added before release!

[bruins72]

If and when this add of players each year happens, it will be a total game changer for historical databases. I think at that point I might feel compelled to stick with a team for many years, building and rebuilding champions over decades and seeing how long I can keep a streak of making the playoffs. Very cool!

That said, I totally understand that this isn't happening this summer. It's just a "wow, that would be so cool" kind of thing.

[archibalduk]

FYI - when I say "I'd like to remove the extra young players" I mean remove the extra young players in the initial starting database (via the Pregame Editor/Updater)...and supply along with the starting database CSV files that a user would use each year (on/after July 1st) to input the new players - so in this way historical players would be added into the database every year at age 14! (so Lindros would be added in/on July 1st 1986)

Because of the CA/Attributes "scale issue" in a saved game I'm imagining the process to do so would be to create a 14 year old version of the historical player, start/save a game and then use the SavedGame Updater to view and copy all of the player's relevant Bio/Attributes data (and this would be inputted into the game at the appropriate time via the user using a CSV file/the SavedGame Updater to add new historical players each year...kinda like how they show up each year in the historical FHM) - do you foresee any problems with this Arch?

Ah ok, I understand now.

Setting player attributes and CAs right now is problematic. Until I figure out the formula, it won't be possible to correctly add players to a saved game. The version of the players.dat file (the file with all of the player attributes) that is within the saved game is different to the one in the database. It has the same format, but many of the attributes use a different scale which is based on the CA. The scale runs from - 127 up to 128. The game uses a formula based on the player's CA to convert the -127 - 128 scale into the 1 - 20 scale in game. So if we add players to the game using the Updater, setting all of the players' attributes to zero won't work because zero does not represent "random"; instead it represents something on the 1-20 scale.

The reason for the different scale is that it allows players' attributes to develop without them having to jump a whole rating each time. So although a player may appear as having a 10 Passing attribute in game, he may actually have a 10.1 or 10.2, etc attribute.

If I can figure out the scale and the formula then we'll be able to edit/add player CAs and attributes. I also need to test whether it is possible to add players/staff to the game. With all of these extra files in the saved game (most of which I have no idea what they do), I can say for sure whether adding players will work. But I will test this out later this week (possibly today if I have time).

[CJ]

I suppose the easiest way would be to put them in the already created North American "minor hockey" Leagues...this is NOT something I'm looking to do, as I want them in their "home" country. I was looking at Sweden, Finland, Russia, Czech Republic and Slovakia...and I was looking at U17, U14, U11, U8 and U5 Leagues (so 5 counties x 6 Leagues = 30 Leagues...each League usually has 4 teams of about 20 players...so 30 Leagues x 80 players = 2400 players)...so for me adding the extra young Europeans/Russians is something I want to do, but I want to do it "right" and not just add a few players

I understand that exactly. I was thinking the same of putting them to existing leagues. What would happen if I put "Teeme Selänne" into lets say "Helsinki Jokerit Juniors"? That team exists but it probably doesn't have any players...

[Manimal]

What would happen if I put "Teeme Selänne" into lets say "Helsinki Jokerit Juniors"? That team exists but it probably doesn't have any players...

He needs to be in a league that fits his age

[nino33]

I suppose the easiest way would be to put them in the already created North American "minor hockey" Leagues...this is NOT something I'm looking to do, as I want them in their "home" country. I was looking at Sweden, Finland, Russia, Czech Republic and Slovakia...and I was looking at U17, U14, U11, U8 and U5 Leagues (so 5 counties x 6 Leagues = 30 Leagues...each League usually has 4 teams of about 20 players...so 30 Leagues x 80 players = 2400 players)...so for me adding the extra young Europeans/Russians is something I want to do, but I want to do it "right" and not just add a few players

I understand that exactly. I was thinking the same of putting them to existing leagues. What would happen if I put "Teeme Selänne" into lets say "Helsinki Jokerit Juniors"? That team exists but it probably doesn't have any players...

What would happen if I put "Teeme Selänne" into lets say "Helsinki Jokerit Juniors"? That team exists but it probably doesn't have any players...

He needs to be in a league that fits his age

I suggested to use the already created North American "minor hockey" Leagues

PreJunior Minor Hockey League - Upper Age 18
Bantam Minor Hockey League - Upper Age 16
PeeWee Minor Hockey League - Upper Age 13
Atom Minor Hockey League - Upper Age 11
Novice Minor Hockey League - Upper Age 9
Tyke Minor Hockey League - Upper Age 6
Mite Minor Hockey League - Upper Age 4

It seems without the actual Leagues to play in, extra young players just retire right away ("can't support himself playing hockey")

[Manimal]

PreJunior MHL is the same age as Canadian midget leagues, right?

[archibalduk]

I also need to test whether it is possible to add players/staff to the game. With all of these extra files in the saved game (most of which I have no idea what they do), I can say for sure whether adding players will work. But I will test this out later this week (possibly today if I have time).

Unfortunately it's not going to be possible to add new players to a saved game right now. A number of the database files are very different in the saved game (such as Staff Preferences, Player Info and Player Rights - and there's an additional contract file). If I can figure out the structure of each of these files then it might be possible, but I can't promise I'll have the chance to look at this any time soon (it's hours/days of work to figure out the even just some of the structure of just one file) .

On the plus side, at least we can correct height, weight, DOBs, etc. I'm optimistic CA and attribute editing will be possible in the not so distant future too.

[nino33]

Unfortunately it's not going to be possible to add new players to a saved game right now...On the plus side, at least we can correct height, weight, DOBs, etc.

A huge plus! Thanks so much for all your efforts Arch!

PreJunior MHL is the same age as Canadian midget leagues, right?

I'm not sure/I think so. The PreJunior League was created years ago as a place to put players "temporarily" when I wasn't sure where to put them (i.e. I wasn't sure if they were to old for an already existing EHM League and/or wasn't sure where to put them at the time).....as it "works" and I've got so many other editing tasks to do I've not yet gotten back to it HaHa - ideally all the players in both the PreJunior and the Bantam Minor Hockey Leagues would be moved to regular/existing EHM Leagues

[nino33]

I just added Staff to all the Major Junior Teams!

First I had to overcome a self-induced issue…I inadvertently added specific Staff to a team or teams that already had that Staff (Head Coach), and after creating/inputting the new Staff I went to use the PreGame Editor and it “looped” endlessly when I tried to save – returned to my backup and fixed the conflicts before creating/inputting the new Staff and all went well!

Formally there was 74 (historical) Staff in Major Junior...I have now added 440 additional “fake” Staff
I've also done CA/PA and am hopeful that I can do some Staff Attribute editing too before release (before I do so I want to add Minor Pro Staff)



Each Major Junior team has the following…

Chairman
GM
Assistant GM
Head Coach
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Scout
Scout
Trainer

[nino33]

I just added Staff to all the AHL teams!

Formally there was 0 Staff in the AHL...now there are 64 real (historical) Staff and 231 "fake" Staff in the AHL


I'm pretty much "out of gas" regarding the 74DB and so that's it for the adding of anything/anyone...I'm going to do some tweaking of NHL player Attributes, and I'm going to add some Attributes for the Major Junior and AHL Staff...and then I'll release version 3.0

[CJ]

I'm pretty much "out of gas" regarding the 74DB

You had pretty much gas to start with. As this project has probably taken a million hours...

[Manimal]

I just noticed with the Starting date at 1974, the game does not use the random date of 1900/02/01 as random any longer
Non-playing staff gets that as DOB and are 74 at start up.
Players with that DOB gets a random age, some even a negative one. Dave Semenko was -14 in my game I just started up

[nino33]

I just noticed with the Starting date at 1974, the game does not use the random date of 1900/02/01 as random any longer
Non-playing staff gets that as DOB and are 74 at start up.
Players with that DOB gets a random age, some even a negative one. Dave Semenko was -14 in my game I just started up

I’ve just completed work on version 3.1 of the 1974 database, and it’s been sent to Archi to upload. I’ve fixed Semenko, and for the others I’ve removed all random DOBs and ensured everyone has an appropriate Birth Year.

Testing showed the game at start-up does create lower CA Free Agent Staff that are to young (starting at age 5...over 2000 under age 20). Arch is gonna take a look at it if he can (he might have a fix attempt)...if not, if desired I think the SavedGame Updater could be used at start-up on Day 1 to change all Staff's age to a minimum of say 25

EDIT - Looks like for now the only solutions are use the SavedGame Updater at start-up on Day 1 to change all Staff's age to a minimum of say 25 OR accept/use it "as is" OR use the 2006 start date version

[nino33]

I'm trying to reduce/eliminate the unwanted extra young Staff the game creates at start-up by (hopefully) reducing the need for the game to create additional Staff at start-up

Currently I'm using "copy/paste" to create in the 1974 database the Staff the game is creating at start up. It's a bit of a convoluted process, but I think it'll work.
Thanks to the Updater's recently added SavedGame functionality, I'm able to get the needed data to create the Staff that the game is creating at start-up, and before creating/inputting the Staff into the 1974 database I will edit their DOBs so no Staff will be younger than 25

I hope to finish the copy/paste creating of about 10,000 additional Staff later today, and then do a bit of testing, and then release a version 3.2 (so version 3.1 may not even be released!)

[CJ]

Sorry for this noob question here. But I've see you (nino) and other guys using "Excel" here to show stuff. Can you edit the database with Excel or something!?

[nino33]

Sorry for this noob question here. But I've see you (nino) and other guys using "Excel" here to show stuff. Can you edit the database with Excel or something!?

The EHM Updater http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... it=updater exports/imports data using csv files, which I then "save as" excel when doing my editing (so I can use colour, excel formulas, etc).....when I'm ready to import the edits I have made I save my excel file as a csv and import the csv file

If you're comfortable in excel and you like editing EHM, you're going to LOVE the Updater!

[CJ]

If you're comfortable in excel and you like editing EHM, you're going to LOVE the Updater!

Thanks a lot man! I've very comfortable with excel. Gonna try it tomorrow. No I gotta get some sleep (1 A.M)

[nino33]

I'm trying to reduce/eliminate the unwanted extra young Staff the game creates at start-up by (hopefully) reducing the need for the game to create additional Staff at start-up

Alas it didn't work...

...and then release a version 3.2 (so version 3.1 may not even be released!)

There won't be a "version 3.2" release (as there's no need, as there is nothing "fixed" from 3.1)...3.1 still makes sense to release as at least the historical players/staff that used the 1900 Birth Year have been "fixed" BUT it seems the game itself creates Staff who are teenagers and preteens! It seems the issue is just "cosmetic" and doesn't affect gameplay (hopefully it'll be fixable someday)

I've sent version 3.1 to the TBL Mods and I'm sure they'll get it linked up when they can!


Regards

[archibalduk]

v3.1 is online! The download link can be found in the TBL Downloads section.

[jesterx7769]

Every time I load a game the entire schedule is wiped? It does it whether I put the start date at 1974 or 2012

[nino33]

Every time I load a game the entire schedule is wiped? It does it whether I put the start date at 1974 or 2012

Are you using an older version of the CSD Patch? It wasn't until recently with version 1.4 (came out July 3rd) that the use of a retro date was possible...now (as of July 25th) there's a version 1.5 http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 83#p128598


CSD Patch 1.4 Changes
•Fixed an issue whereby the second half of the game schedule would disappear when a start date earlier than 1980 was selected.
•Introduced the addition of the Retro Launcher in order to enable pre-1980 start dates.

CSD Patch 1.5 Changes
•Fixed an issue with pre-1980 start dates where the schedule arrow navigation buttons would not work correctly.