EHM "Superpack"

[Joey]

Admins Note:

Joey stopped by to let us all know that he's working on logos for EHM, and if he wants to share them he will upload them just like every other content creator can. If not then there is no need for us to provide a platform for him to talk about a project available on another site. Here's some details if he decides to share it with us. He didn't say he would though he said he's making them for another site. Sorry Joey, that's just not cool amigo.

The pack will consist of logos done in a glossy style for all playable teams and competitions. The pack will be compatible with 2005 and (maybe with some tweaking) 2007. The current focus is on the big logos to go in the news items, however once I know what small logos will be like in the game (whether or not they can go in the top bar ala FM), then these will be re-tweaked to fit that. Also on the agenda is to do 'kits' or uniforms for the teams.

Current status is that the NHL pack is completed and tested. The AHL was completed this morning and I'm going to test that pack sometime. The WHL is under development and the base logos have been collected for the OHL, ECHL and QMJHL. The Euro leagues are tough to find good quality logos, but the search continues. I'd be interested in teaming up with whoever does the hockey card face packs to see if we could combine works, but I'm not sure who that is.

Also Joey, large logos and 'kits' as you refer to them have already been done for most leagues and will work for 2007 as is so no need to trouble yourself recreating them. As for the cards? Well just like with what we call News Jerseys if you were interested in contributing to TBL or creating content that users might like then you'd have read some of the Graphics threads or just checked to see who the author of our card sets were on our server, right?

You'd have then known 'kits' are covered and we have our own plans for cards this year so we've got it covered. Good luck with your projects, feel free to upload them when you are done but this message just seems far too much like spamming for your site not wanting to provide for our community.

[Shadd666]

Why do you announce that you'll make something if you won't share it with us???

It's a bit frustrating for us,and really disappointing!

You're free to share your creations with users of other sites,but hey! if you joined our community,don't forget to share with us too!

Just hope it was just a sort of misunderstanding,and that you won't forget us

However,good luck for your project! Keep us tuned!

[archibalduk]

'Kits' are what you call them in football/soccer. They're 'jerseys' in hockey. You'd have thought an alleged hockey fan would know the difference.

Joey - how is this a "superpack" as compared to say the Card Faces Project or Alt Logos?

[Joey]

Why do you announce that you'll make something if you won't share it with us???

It's a bit frustrating for us,and really disappointing!

You're free to share your creations with users of other sites,but hey! if you joined our community,don't forget to share with us too!

Just hope it was just a sort of misunderstanding,and that you won't forget us

However,good luck for your project! Keep us tuned!

I'm not sharing it because 1) It's not completed and 2) It's not completed.
once it is completed, I will happily share it.

Archi - More variety, different style, etc, etc. And I'm aware of this kits issue, thus the reason I put them in quotation marks. This is a superpack because, quite frankly, the others aren't. A superpack, by definition of the 03/04 superpacks which I mentioned in my first post, includes more than one style of graphics in the game...the two projects, card faces and alt logos, are not superpacks, whilst super in nature, they are face packs and logo packs. Combine and expand them, which is what I'm aiming to do, and you have a superpack. The idea is for a user to download one file instead of 50 and have everything they need.

To be honest I feel a little trodden on, I came here to promote this to a) get feedback, b) continually post updates, and c) make people aware of what's going on. But all I got was a somewhat hostile response and my original post hacked to shreds. At no point did I intend to promote Susie, it was simply the venue where the upgrade is taking place. I believe the misunderstanding is on the other foot (ie: not mine) and I'm not terribly happy about it.

[flea]

Well Joey, I think that maybe you should have explained yourself better???

When I read your post for the first time I had the impression of "ok, hes doing some new logos, facecards, etc. but he doesnt want to share it.....whats then the point to post it here???"
...and probably Iam not the only one who thought that way.

Dont know, just my 2 cents here.

Anyway, good luck and happy work, lol!!!

Greets

PD: also a thought that I had was that I would wait until the new game comes out to make further changes....but thats just me....

[Joey]

Posted the exact same thing at SIGames and they got the point. I dont know how clearler "Current status is that the NHL pack is completed and tested. The AHL was completed this morning and I'm going to test that pack sometime. The WHL is under development and the base logos have been collected for the OHL, ECHL and QMJHL. The Euro leagues are tough to find good quality logos, but the search continues. I'd be interested in teaming up with whoever does the hockey card face packs to see if we could combine works, but I'm not sure who that is." can be.

[fifafan]

Wow this is dissappointing. Can a person not come here for feedback? As Joey states, once the superpack is done, it will be shared willingly.

I can't read his original post as it was overwritten by an admin, so I can't comment on what Joey originally posted. All I can say is that Joey and I have discussed this superpack, we are working on it together FOR THE COMMUNITY, NOT JUST SUSIE!!

Methinks apologies are in order, lads. I think you've over-reacted.

[E5150_ca]

When you're here, you play by the admin's rules, if they wanna 'hack' your post to shreds, so be it. Next time don't come here telling us you got some 'super' project going on, but we have to head over to Sus to get it. People can still see what project you got going, and your free to upload it here, so no harm done.

[Minstrel]

The original post ended with:

Make sure you check out the EHM forum at [our site] to keep tabs on this progress.

This says to me it's not a "shared project" and this is a dead thread that will not be updated.

So... we have no problem with people from other sites being a part of our community. We have no problem with as I've said any author posting a project, we don't keep anyone away from the files section, we'd like to have more people contribute actually. However, what we do have a problem with is people posting about a project "they are preparing for Site X" and we'll let you know when to come by and check it out at Site X.

We aren't the SI boards where everyone is welcome because they all support the game, we support SI and our Community and don't allow free ads for other sites however. There was a very long post here that left a LOT of question as to how much this was "Check out my new project" and how much was really just "Look at these snazzy graphics come join our site for your chance to see updates and get the file".

It was a collective judgement call on the part of the Admin Team; and there will be this further explanation but no apology. I didn't delete your thread, and the offer stands to add it to our upload section when finished and report about it with a thread here and even in our TBL thread on the SI Forums, we'd welcome that. You say the NHL set is already completed? Well one thing about "Superpacks" is their supersize; maybe people don't want to download a gigantic file and would rather just add the NHL logos.

So, if you want to prove us wrong upload this completed and tested NHL logos set.

Otherwise if you care to discuss the fullness of the matter as to why we might be as little bit suspicious in this case? Well yes, we can do that as well. We don't hide anything from our users. People might not know this unless they've been around for some time the site that both you and Joey are Moderators of turned their backs on us after we gave them everything we had; not the other way around.

We said we needed to know we could run a site we had full control over and wouldn't again be closed on a whim. We offered to continue the relationship we enjoyed by being an affiliated site that "ran the EHM portion of the site" but the Admins there declared that the site was simply "Too large now to NOT have our own EHM and OOTP sections". So we rebuilt our own site and we're darn proud of what it's become. We have never once posted to draw users from your side (my last post there was to invite people to join our fantasy hockey last year) so if you want to call us out on being unfair it's actually you that should offer the apology.

We have the entire post still in our Admin section, I'll send it to you in full via private meessage but we stand by the reasons behind our removing the portions of it we did.

[Joey]

This is turning into a Susie vs TBL slag off tbh and it's disappointing fellas.
If you interpretted that, and to be honest I can see how, as 'I'm not sharing', then so be it, and there's nothing I can do about that.

I'm disappointed with the reaction this has gotten to be honest. I will not upload the completed and now tested NHL and AHL packs, because I am intending them to be part of the complete pack first, I don't believe I need to submit something to prove myself to you. I have never said I won't break the pack up, but I will release it as a superpack FIRST. You're putting scenario's into my mouth and twisting my words into something very favourable for TBL, but I can't blame you for that.

And this whole thing about Susie vs TBL, it's very unfair that you are dumping that issue onto this one considering I had NOTHING to do with that whole relationship, outside of being an EHM supporter at the time. I only joined the staff as an EHM member AFTER you guys left.

Fellas I like the site, it's better than the SIGames forums imo, and the redesign it kick ass, but with all do respect, the finger needs to come just a fraction out of the rear end. I can see how you've read this, and like I said, it's not my fault, you're generalising with me here and that's ridiculously unfair. This has left quite a sour taste in my mouth and I'd appreciate, once this is read, that this thread be deleted. Once the pack is nearer to competion, I will post another topic with more 'universal' wording that hopefully won't ruffle so many feathers and happily upload it to both Susie AND TBL as both a superpack, and individual packs.

Happy boys?

[Minstrel]

This has left quite a sour taste in my mouth and I'd appreciate, once this is read, that this thread be deleted.

I think I'll leave your post, and the rest of the thread as is for anyone who wants to read it. Personally I'm sorry that instead of maybe commenting about the game release or voting in our self-admittedly silly TBT competition or anything of that kinds your first post here after last we knew you "retired" from the scene was to tell people to come to your site to keep up with the details of a new graphics project everyone will want. It's not the best foot to start off on for us thinking you're here to share with our users and be a part of the TBL Community given a history a lot of the current users here won't know about because we don't talk about, it quite honestly.

But hell yes we are bitter and suspicious; do you have any idea what this group and the EHM Scene in general lost in that whole debacle? We just want to run the best EHM site we can and not have it all go up in smoke one day someone decides to flick a switch. That's all we've ever wanted. Thanks for being able to discuss this maturely.

[archibalduk]

Wow this is dissappointing. Can a person not come here for feedback? As Joey states, once the superpack is done, it will be shared willingly.

Coming for feedback is absolutely fine. I have no problem with Susie and don't see it as some sort of competition between TBL and Susie. Hence why you're both very welcome to join in the discussions in our Forums and why this thread is still open and shall not be deleted. In the past we've had no problem with webmasters of other EHM fan sites posting in our forums. I usually give them custom titles and allow them to put their site url in their user profile (e.g. eastside-uk, nhlfe.com and ehm center). There's no reason why I hadn't done the same for you - it just hadn't crossed my mind.

When I read Joey's post for the first time it came across as spam. He gave no indication that it would be available on this site and his post suggested that he wouldn't be updating the thread with his progress as his original post said "Make sure you check out the EHM forum at Sortitoutsi.net to keep tabs on this progress". Now if he was going to keep us updated on TBL then surely it wouldn't have been necessary to do that?! If someone comes posts a thread saying that he's creating a new addon for EHM but to find out more you have to check out the Forums of his site then I'd say that borders on spam. It's different on the SI Forums because they're the forums run by the developers who are happy to allow EHM fansites to advertise their sites and forums. We are, however, a fan site and so there's no reason why we should allow advertising of other forums on our site.

I sent a PM to Joey straight after editting his post which I think was more than fair and explained why I'd taken no action. He never responded to this:

Hi Joey,

Just to let you know that I've editted your post regarding your superpack. I have no problem with you posting about your work and keeping us updated but I do have a problem with people spamming our site. Your thread is on the border between these two. If you want to post updates then that's fine - but telling our users that they have to visit Susie to see how you're going renders your thread here null as it just means you were spamming and had no intention of updating the thread.

Many thanks,
Archi

So I appreciate that maybe fifafan did not know all of the facts before he made his post. His post did not come across as a post asking for feedback; it came across as an advertisement for Susie's Forums. As E5150_ca rightly pointed out, this is our site and so you play by our rules. If we regard something as spam then it's spam. Just as if we post over at Susie we play by your rules.

Finally Joey, where/how have we twisted your words?

[Shadd666]

I think Joey explained badly his sharing intentions in his original post,which lead to all those problems...

Now that he said clearly that he will share with us and explained us how he'll build and share his project,i think that the main problem is closed imo.

So now,we just have to wish him good luck for his project,which sounds really interesting

However,like Flea said,i think it would have been better to wait for EHM07 before making new files... But this 'superpack' should be a good practice before making an EHM07 version

[Joey]

But hell yes we are bitter and suspicious; do you have any idea what this group and the EHM Scene in general lost in that whole debacle? We just want to run the best EHM site we can and not have it all go up in smoke one day someone decides to flick a switch. That's all we've ever wanted. Thanks for being able to discuss this maturely.

Again, piddle poor tactic to load that on me. I had nothing to do with it and it's disappointing that you can't see past that.

Archi - The whole discussion about me supposedly refusing to not release this as individual packs up above, where I never said such a thing is one example off the top of my head without me going back, but it's happened on more than this occassion.

I'm politely asking for this thread to be deleted, as it now serves no purpose and the project will be marred if this thread exists due to the "misinterpretation" (overreaction) of my intentions.

[E5150_ca]

I find it funny that you want a thread deleted but you come back here throwing around 4-letter words.

[Joey]

The word for the record was 'pi.ss', not a dig at anyone. Again twisting my words

[E5150_ca]

Was it not a 4 letter word? Was it not censored? How is that twisting it?

[Calv]

The word for the record was 'pi.ss', not a dig at anyone. Again twisting my words

We have an auto censor in the forums, so there was no twisting. If you feel it's necesarry to use words that are censored by most forums then it's highly likely that people will misintepret that post as a dig, whether intentional or not.

[Joey]

I'm aware of the auto censor, the wording of E5150's post made it seem like I was having a dig, given recent events of people overreacting and misconstruding intentions, I thought it best to explain myself.

I still would like this thread deleted as it really now serves no purpose

[B. Stinson]

given recent events of people overreacting and misconstruding intentions, I thought it best to explain myself.

I still would like this thread deleted as it really now serves no purpose

I'm not looking to take any sides in this situation, but just to throw in my two cents: If you really were misunderstood, then this thread should still serve as the main thread for your current work. By saying it's now useless, you're only implying that you never intended to have updates via this thread... meaning that anyone who wanted to follow your work would have to go to a "rival" site. And the admins have every right to disallow that.

[Joey]

This has left quite a sour taste in my mouth and I'd appreciate, once this is read, that this thread be deleted. Once the pack is nearer to competion, I will post another topic with more 'universal' wording that hopefully won't ruffle so many feathers and happily upload it to both Susie AND TBL as both a superpack, and individual packs.

[archibalduk]

You're putting scenario's into my mouth and twisting my words into something very favourable for TBL, but I can't blame you for that.

(link)

I'd still like to know how/when we were twisting your words.

Again, **** poor tactic to load that on me.

(link)

I find it funny that you want a thread deleted but you come back here throwing around 4-letter words.

(link)

The word for the record was 'pi.ss', not a dig at anyone. Again twisting my words

(link)

Joey, you swore. TBL is a site for people of all ages and hence why we have a filter that automatically censors offensive words (such as the one you used). Again, at what point were your words twisted? E5150 never said you were having a dig at anyone; he was merely questioning why you post offensive words in this post having requested that this thread be deleted. How on earth did he twist your words?!

I'm getting the impression that these accusations of us twisting your words and you being the victim are attempts to get yourself out of a situation you created.

And no, there will not be any more threads about your pack. The discussion about it has caused enough trouble as it is.

[fifafan]

I take it that you don't want to hear about my superpack then either?

Sorry, I'm finding this whole thing ludicrous. Everything is being blown out of proportion by everyone.

IF we are allowed by the TBL staff, we (Joey and myself) would like to bring up the topic of our superpack at a later date. Hopefully we will be allowed to help contribute to EHM via this forum also.

Love,

Fifafan

[archibalduk]

I take it that you don't want to hear about my superpack then either?

Yeah we'd love to. So long as you don't do what Joey did and more-or-less tried to spam the forums. What really hacked me off about Joey's post was how he said "Make sure you check out the EHM forum at Sortitoutsi.net to keep tabs on this progress". To me that's saying that he's not going to update us at TBL and that his whole thread was just to advertise Susie. From past experience on these Forums you're not like that, Fifafan.

I notice how Joey still hasn't responded to my questions (link).

[fifafan]

I take it that you don't want to hear about my superpack then either?

Yeah we'd love to. So long as you don't do what Joey did and more-or-less tried to spam the forums. What really hacked me off about Joey's post was how he said "Make sure you check out the EHM forum at Sortitoutsi.net to keep tabs on this progress". To me that's saying that he's not going to update us at TBL and that his whole thread was just to advertise Susie. From past experience on these Forums you're not like that, Fifafan.

I notice how Joey still hasn't responded to my questions (link).

I still think this has been blown out of proportion, Archi. Joey did not come here trying to advertise Susie, whilst trying to keep the TBL staff and members out of the loop. All Joey (and I) are saying is that whilst we are updating the superpack, we will be posting some tidbits on Susie, and when the whole thing is done we will be more than happy to share it with the whole community, as this is the way it should be.

If it came across as 'screw TBL, come to Susie', that is not how we meant to do it. We would love to include TBL in this, and this was started here so that the gurus who live here can also come and help with our superpack. During the updates and work on the pack, we are trying to run it out of one forum to keep it in one place, rather than having to jump from forum to forum to find feedback and contribution.

I would love to see this thing take off as a joint effort between TBL and Susie EHM lovers. Strength in numbers, says I. But I hope you see my point in trying to keep it centrally based during the development of the superpack. Personally, I don't think it is too much to ask.

Maybe we can start fresh, and work all together on this and contribute together to make the superpack the best ever for any EHM game?