TBL Rosters 2012-2013; Mistakes, omissions, tweaks etc

[squadz]

Edit: You're not worth the time.

[10minmail]

Edit: You're not worth the time.

don't stress it, I've been browsing this site for a few years.. he's actually just a troll, who's accepted on this site because of how long he's been here, always talking down to people with lower post counts, or are new.

He clearly knows more than every hockey analyst, gm and coach on the planet.

[batdad]

LOL. YOu disagree with me fine. Post some facts to back it up. Point a game centres... that was one point. And point a game centers are okay for sure. Love them in fact. The top 20 in the NHL right now ends at a point per game EXACTLY,,,,and a point per game runs to 30th place or so in pts per game.

And Kadri...is not among them. YOu have to pass Centres like Marcus Johansson, David LEgwand, Frans Nielsen, Bryan Little and Kyle Turris to get to him. That is a long way down the list. Sure early days...early days.

Kadri is not a bad player,,,he is a good player...he is NOT an exceptional player. He is not a great player. He is just a good player, and on an average team will be a decent #1 fill in at centre. But on a good team...he is at best a #2 and that will always be the case. He is not strong enough, nor is he fast enough, nor does he have the vision to be a true #1 Centre.

RNH--has all the tools to be one, and I think he still will be an elite #1 C. But I was wrong...he is not going to be Gretzky not even Sakic. He is just going to be a good #1 C. A point per game or a bit above it guy. So I can be wrong....

B ut more often than not...I have been proven right over the years. And when I am not I am fine with that.

I have strong opinions, and I voice them.

I do not take things personally, unless personal insults are flung at me. Then I back up my thoughts and the people who end up tossed from here tend to go way over the edge and get too personal or swear or curse or call people way worse than troll.

I laugh at troll....If I was a troll...I would not be here. I am here because I contribute to this site my knowledge, experience and thoughts. And you my two friends....what have you done?

You have begun to contribute...but people like you come and go. I hope you stick around. Maybe just maybe you have some knowledge that will change or help prove my opinions wrong. But so far....not so much.

[philou21]

Batdad may be harsh in his judgments sometimes but it's just his way to put things out, he loves to exagerate. His hockey knowledge is far superior to many people here, he even could be the Toronto GM and make them better! <--- That was a joke don't jump on me. He's been here long enough because hockey is his passion and the he knows the game, not just the players names. Most regular posters likes him because we actually know him and know that he is mister overstatement. Though under these overstatements there is the truth, like it or not.







He was good at EHM but he was probably cheating or something like that.

[batdad]

Yeah because cheating in a video game is something a 40 year old man would do. The point is what...and my PP always sucks.

[nino33]

I thought Batdad's posts were full of good stuff to think about. I love such posts, and appreciate that he backed his opinion up.

[Manimal]

Yeah.
But you are all off topic now so beat it from my thread

[batdad]

Lol.

I hate to tell you this Manimal but

Carl Hagelin
Michael Del Zotto (especially since is a healthy scratch all the time)
and
Alain Vigneault all need to be toned down a ton.

Vigneault is not as good as you think now (Which I am sure changed in the last few months) and Torts is not as bad as you think he is now.

[timmy_t]

Some tweaks regarding the Leafs that I've noticed..

Nazem Kadri - his potential/skill is too low, he's a potential 1st liner, but he does terribly in every sim I've done
Jake Gardiner - same as above, potential 1/2 D-man, but he also does terribly (low ratings, no points etc.)
Nikolai Kulemin - he's a 2nd/3rd line guy now, in the game he's an absolute beast, needs to be toned down slightly
Tyler Bozak - he should be bumped up to a 2nd line center (currenty 3rd line), he needs some tweaks to improve him

All I have for now. Great job on the rosters.

Kadri and Gardiner under-perform in this game b/c of their low weight.
Kulemin over-performs in this game b/c of his high weight.

I love how people who just found this game in the last year or so try and "help" the guys that have been playing it from the beginning and understand why players perform the way they do in the game.

I didn't even bother reading your retort to batdad's comments b/c I've heard all of them from some other guys before.

Edit: You're not worth the time.

don't stress it, I've been browsing this site for a few years.. he's actually just a troll, who's accepted on this site because of how long he's been here, always talking down to people with lower post counts, or are new.

He clearly knows more than every hockey analyst, gm and coach on the planet.

Edit: I just saw this. You need to grow up. I don't know what kind of forums you post in but this isn't your personal hate place. You should have pm'd squadz this junk, not spam this thread.

Sorry Manimal, I had to get that out.

[CeeBee]

I usually stay outta this stuff too cause Batdad don't need no help .... he can take care of himself as good as anyone. He also knows as much about hockey as anyone here and is bang on most of the time. Notice I said most Don't want him getting a swelled head even if he is a swell feller.
as for the grumpy part.... without that he just wouldn't be Batdad... hell, it's just everybody having a bit of fun around here anyway.... I think

[squadz]

Kadri and Gardiner under-perform in this game b/c of their low weight.
Kulemin over-performs in this game b/c of his high weight.

I love how people who just found this game in the last year or so try and "help" the guys that have been playing it from the beginning and understand why players perform the way they do in the game.

I didn't even bother reading your retort to batdad's comments b/c I've heard all of them from some other guys before.

I sincerely hope this was not directed at me. I offered suggestions on players that need tweaking, which is the whole reason for this thread. That is all I did, and believe me, it will be the last time I try and offer a suggestion. I have been playing this game for a long time, you don't need to post here everyday to prove that and the length of time should have no meaning for this thread at all, since it's a suggestion/fix thread.

No wonder volunteering is at an all time low, with responses like yours and Batdad's. The elitist attitude of "I've been here longer, I'm always right" is hilarious, especially since you both directed it at a person who only offered a suggestion.

[nino33]

The elitist attitude of "I've been here longer, I'm always right" is hilarious, especially since you both directed it at a person who only offered a suggestion.

I was only suggesting where the majority of people feel those players should be ranked.

these are facts, no opinion or bias.

You state your opinions as what the majority believes, and that your opinions are unbiased facts, and you call others elitist?

[squadz]

The elitist attitude of "I've been here longer, I'm always right" is hilarious, especially since you both directed it at a person who only offered a suggestion.

I was only suggesting where the majority of people feel those players should be ranked.

these are facts, no opinion or bias.

You state your opinions as what the majority believes, and that your opinions are unbiased facts, and you call others elitist?

It's not my opinion, it's based on what the majority of scouts, analysts and people in the hockey world feel. The fact is, people in the hockey world feel Kadri has the potential of a #1 center and Gardiner has the potential of a top D-man. Those are facts, not my opinion or some idea from a hat. All I was trying to do is suggest the above so that we can update the rosters, in this thread, and look at the backlash from one suggestion.

[10minmail]

The elitist attitude of "I've been here longer, I'm always right" is hilarious, especially since you both directed it at a person who only offered a suggestion.

I was only suggesting where the majority of people feel those players should be ranked.

these are facts, no opinion or bias.

You state your opinions as what the majority believes, and that your opinions are unbiased facts, and you call others elitist?

It's not my opinion, it's based on what the majority of scouts, analysts and people in the hockey world feel. The fact is, people in the hockey world feel Kadri has the potential of a #1 center and Gardiner has the potential of a top D-man. Those are facts, not my opinion or some idea from a hat. All I was trying to do is suggest the above so that we can update the rosters, in this thread, and look at the backlash from one suggestion.

That's why I didn't bother replying. If they were on any other team, they'd be loved. But as they play on the Leafs, they must be hated. Kind of like Vancouver players. As someone who is very good friends with a NHL Scout, and hockey being my biggest passion, I don't feel the need to try and give insight to trolls or haters. People will take Batdads side in anything anyways, as he's known here. That's how these forums work.

Also the "I've been playing longer" attitude doesn't work. As these people have no clue how long anyone has been playing. Just doesn't we don't use this forum, doesn't mean we don't know about the game or actual hockey.

However, I do have faith the rosters will be done well, they always are. It's just the last update they didn't work on all the NHL ratings, so it was a bit messy.

[typicaljs]

I think the issue here is Batdad offended the leafs supporter by saying that Kadri is not an elite #1C right now, but maybe has the potential to become one in the future. Which is true. I think a similar argument would apply to someone like Matt Moulson, who is a 1LW on a team like Buffalo or the Islanders, but if you stick him on the blackhawks, Kings, or bruins...where does he play? probably not on the first line. It's one thing to be a good player on a decent team but it's another thing to be a great player on a great team. Just because a player fills a role for a team doesn't mean that the player should be in that role on a good team. I think I've blocked all the memories from terrible King's teams of past out of my memory...but I can recall certain players in positions they had no business playing when the Kings were terrible.

Is Batdad grumpy? yes, I think he gave me some guff earlier...or I've made sure to edit my posts so that i Don't come off as the type of EHM player he's not realy a fan of. but it doesn't matter. the guys dedicated to the game and to hockey and has strong opinions. What type of hockey fan can't take a little chirping? I like to argue with people like batdad. You might not always agree on issues, but at least understanding the perspective of someone that has insightful, albeit differing opinions is always interesting....at least imo.

[philou21]

The elitist attitude of "I've been here longer, I'm always right" is hilarious

Batdad is always pulling that one out when he tries to troll with guys like you.....and it worked. Just don't generalize the forum based on that. It's the only forum I use on the internet because I think everyone is open minded and we can have good discussions. There's troll (real ones) from time to time but we mostly don't attract their attention that much. At some points it's normal to have disagreement but there's usually two way out of this. You either stop talking to that person or you simply ackownledge that someone sees things differently than yours. Batdad is not wrong and you either. You just see things differently.

Typicaljs made some good points either. Let's just try to get back to what that thread is supposed too.

[CeeBee]

I think everyone has gotten some guff from Batdad, me included. I also thing there are players on every team that are under-rated as well as players that are over-rated. Ovechkin is way too good. Every db I play he is almost Gretzky-like. Edler is too good. Bieksa not good enough. Of course we all pay the most attention to the team(s) we play so any player on any team that needs tweaking probably will be brought up by people who play that team or are more informed about that team. I sure don't know the details of every player on every team.... jeepers does Manimal have a tough job or what. I'm just thankful that we do get db updates so thanks to everybody who helps out on this yearly project!!!

[Manimal]

I sure don't know the details of every player on every team.... jeepers does Manimal have a tough job or what. I'm just thankful that we do get db updates so thanks to everybody who helps out on this yearly project!!!

Actually, Archi is doing most of the NHL editing. I am working on rookies and prospects(and I am falling way behind atm, I'm afraid)

[CeeBee]

Well, thanks to you and Archie then and I'll not sidetrack things any longer

[nino33]

My support for Batdad was based on his supported arguments instead of "I know a scout" or "everybody in hockey agrees with me"
As one who has edited for years (and helped out with the TBL rosters for years), I simply don't find the latter helpful.
My thoughts/feelings are based on what can actually be done in regards to editing...

For example, Kadri's PA in 5.6 is -9 which works out to a potential of 150-180, described as "very rare, top 10 NHL prospect can't miss player"
The only greater PA he could be given is -10 with a potential of 170-200, described as "extremely rare top player, not available every year" - these are #1 overall players, but not every year! Does the whole hockey world really believe that Kadri is such a player?

[Fredlig]

Don't want to interrupt the dram but;

Evgeni Kuznetsov -> 190cm/85kg
Nikolaj Ehlers -> 181cm/74kg
Fabrice Herzog -> Birth City -> Frauenfeld ->187cm/90kg
Alex Steen 182cm/96kg
Evgeny Artyukhin 195cm/121kg(hehe)

[Manimal]

Don't want to interrupt the dram but;

Evgeni Kuznetsov -> 190cm/85kg
Nikolaj Ehlers -> 181cm/74kg
Fabrice Herzog -> Birth City -> Frauenfeld ->187cm/90kg
Alex Steen 182cm/96kg

Thanks!

[timmy_t]

The biggest point I tried to make with my post was that some players do better in the game (higher "ratings") based on size alone.

A perfect example is Greg Moore. He had around a 120-130 PA, but because he is a great skater, has great mental attributes, and is big (heavy) he has an over 8.00 avr whenever I pick him up.

Small players don't put up the numbers (avr) that most people think they "deserve." It's just a limitation of the game engine.

Hopefully you new-ish registered tbl'ers will see where I am coming from on this, and some old tbl'ers will back me up.

[batdad]

I would say that is true for the most part Timmy. As for the rest of it....it is time to return this thread to Manimal. I appreciate that many have tried to explain my points, and that many have asked to see proof. My final commentson this ....


My friend is an NHL Scout....yep...all well and good. But that really is just here say... what you are saying your friend told you (quite frankly it is the hockey interwebs board version of a racist saying his friend is Black or Asian so really not given much credit). No idea who your friend is, nor does it matter.

Fact is, there is still no proof here that the majority of NHL people think that Nazeem Kadri will be an NHL top line centre, or star player. There will never be proof of that. And there will likely never be enough proof that he is a NHL #1 Centre or star centre, because chances are ....he will never get the opportunity to be one.

I gave you 40 centres or so in the league right now. I showed you where I think Kadri fits in, and if the majority of NHL scouts sat down and did that....I bet they would come out with the same or similar point for Kadri. Somewhere in the 20s for his ability and potential.

And last but not least---Thanks Nino for posting what his PA in the game is. It is actually a bit high if he reaches the top end in a game. That would put him in the top 5-10 centres in the league.

[typicaljs]

The biggest point I tried to make with my post was that some players do better in the game (higher "ratings") based on size alone.

A perfect example is Greg Moore. He had around a 120-130 PA, but because he is a great skater, has great mental attributes, and is big (heavy) he has an over 8.00 avr whenever I pick him up.

Small players don't put up the numbers (avr) that most people think they "deserve." It's just a limitation of the game engine.

Hopefully you new-ish registered tbl'ers will see where I am coming from on this, and some old tbl'ers will back me up.

I just experienced this for my first time. Drafted a guy that was 5'9 176 (17 consistency) but great attributes and the guy just never got over the hump at the pros in terms of being a 40+pt/yr guy. I imagined because his offensive skills were all 18-19-20's that he would do fine regardless, but he just never got it. Finally at like 26 or 27 I gave up and put a 6'3 guy in there with less offensive skill and he's done much better. I guess that guy was more of a "brandon Kozun" type that's just too small, but otherwise skilled enough to play in the league.